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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ G7 B7 Barre Advice Please
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 22 2019, 09:08 PM
Hello folks,
I'm really really struggling to hold down the barre chords using this shape:
----3----
----6----
----4----
----3----
----5----
----3----
Here is a video of me trying to build the chord. This was a few weeks back and I'm no better now.
https://youtu.be/fWulpz-BpfY
Any tips/hints/advice you can give will be great, thanks.
Phil
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 22 2019, 09:46 PM
Can't tell from the video, but how is your thumb placed on the neck? And have you tried experimenting with moving the thumb too, as well as the 1st finger you use for barring?
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 22 2019, 10:00 PM
Thanks Ben,
Thumb is in classical position on back of neck, I've tried all sorts of positions for my index finger.
https://youtu.be/zo92WU2CMHs
Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 23 2019, 07:20 AM
That's what's called "flat out difficult" so I"m not surprised it's a bit challenging. Your first finger seems to be perhaps to high E.G. Sticking over the top of the neck. Maybe try altering the angle so that your first finger/tip rests on the E string. I always found chords like that easier to play on my Ibby.
Todd
Thumb is in classical position on back of neck, I've tried all sorts of positions for my index finger.
https://youtu.be/zo92WU2CMHs
Posted by: PosterBoy Feb 23 2019, 01:06 PM
Get your index finger jammed up against the 3rd fret and use the edge of it more.
A good way to practice this is to put your index finger flat on the top of the fret and then roll it back onto its side just behind the fret. Then make sure all strings are sounding clearly and then add the other fingers.
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 23 2019, 03:15 PM
A good way to practice this is to put your index finger flat on the top of the fret and then roll it back onto its side just behind the fret. Then make sure all strings are sounding clearly and then add the other fingers.
Thanks buddy,
I can get them ringing with just the index finger, it's when I add the other fingers. I'm OK with E shape barre chords but this is another matter.
Cheers
Phil
Posted by: Caelumamittendum Feb 23 2019, 03:40 PM
Is it the pressure on the index finger that causes the issue or the placement of the other fingers? If that makes sense. I mean, does the string not ring out because something gets muted unwanted by another finger or because of the lack of "strength" in lack of a better word here?
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 23 2019, 03:58 PM
The D string and high E string get muted by the index finger lifting. For some reason the strength isn't improving unless it's some biomechanical issue 
Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 23 2019, 06:49 PM
Have you been doing the finger snap workout I used to show on vid chat? It's just another way to add finger power. Just bring your first two fingers to touch your thumb and repeat. Once it makes a snapping sound, you've arrived 
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 23 2019, 08:58 PM
Can you show the video please buddy. I'm hoping this is strength and not biomechanical.
Cheers
Posted by: AK Rich Feb 23 2019, 09:12 PM
Hey Phil. This is how it looks from my point of view when I use that shape. I don't have the tip of my index finger hanging over the edge of the fretboard like you do and my index is actually on kind of an angle where the tip is basically right on top of the fret itself and the upper part of the finger actually angles up the fretboard a bit.
Having said that, I am not so sure that what you are doing is wrong and it sounds pretty close in your second demo vid. I think everyones hand may look a little different when making this chord shape. It may just come down to the need for repetition. It is just one of those shapes that takes some time to play cleanly and to be able to switch to and from quickly and cleanly. Practice practice practice and don't press too hard as to not strain your hand. Keep at it and it will come
[attachment=48388:IMG_2019...3_103516.jpg]
PS: Is this the B7 shape you are using?
[attachment=48389:IMG_2019...3_111331.jpg]
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 23 2019, 10:56 PM
Thanks Rich,
Been trying since end of last year. I though maybe my hand could never do it. It's hard to not put much pressure on because my hands is so tense because of the unusual shape.
Thanks for your help though.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 24 2019, 02:26 AM
Sure thing bud! Here is a video demo. Give this a try. It's a great way to work up your finger power. Most symphony and classical players can do this and make it pop on the first try. We guitar players usually have to work up to it.
ANYONE who can make the fingers pop like I'm doing, please record a short vid, and share it here. I want to try to show that this is not impossible. I"m hoping that somebody here on the site, other than myself, can do this technique.
Todd
Cheers
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 24 2019, 09:02 PM
Not much power here Todd, I do get a pop on left hand when I use middle two fingers. Just got back from a weekend away, did a quick vid. Glad you like the pictures on Instagram 
https://youtu.be/ldmWEoLfjmQ
UPDATE:
After seeing where Rich's index finger is in his first picture I noticed that mine was in between the second and third frets, once I got it snugly up to the fret wire I had a 90% improvement so thanks for that Rich Just need to practise it more now to get consistancy.
Posted by: PosterBoy Feb 25 2019, 11:46 AM
Phil
Another thing to think about is, do you really need to play a whole barre chord G7, rather than a partial chord or another voicing, especially on electric guitar.
I know you want to be a well rounded guitarist but if you look at many of our favourite guitarists how often do they use a full barre chord...
If this is giving you issues, maybe it's a great opportunity to learn other voicings and options.
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 25 2019, 12:54 PM
Another thing to think about is, do you really need to play a whole barre chord G7, rather than a partial chord or another voicing, especially on electric guitar.
I know you want to be a well rounded guitarist but if you look at many of our favourite guitarists how often do they use a full barre chord...
If this is giving you issues, maybe it's a great opportunity to learn other voicings and options.
Thanks buddy but it's one of my tasks in my mentoring thread with Gab. If it was for something I was "writing" I would probably do a shortcut version. I'm also covering triads based around the chords.
Cheers
Posted by: Todd Simpson Feb 25 2019, 05:01 PM
Getting ones hand position in a comfy spot is indeed critical. I'm glad you found a more comfy way and big props to Rich! You have a good start on your finger strength. Keep doing this finger drill any time you have a few moments to spare. The more you can work up your finger power, the easier everything on guitar will get.
Todd
https://youtu.be/ldmWEoLfjmQ
UPDATE:
After seeing where Rich's index finger is in his first picture I noticed that mine was in between the second and third frets, once I got it snugly up to the fret wire I had a 90% improvement so thanks for that Rich
Just need to practise it more now to get consistancy.Posted by: AK Rich Feb 25 2019, 06:23 PM
After seeing where Rich's index finger is in his first picture I noticed that mine was in between the second and third frets, once I got it snugly up to the fret wire I had a 90% improvement so thanks for that Rich
Just need to practise it more now to get consistancy.Awesome! Glad I could help, Phil. I know you have been gravitating towards a blues style lately and that shape and similar shapes and voicings are essential for the style.
How is that B7 treating you? Are you using it with the root on the A string like I show in the 2nd picture I posted?
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 25 2019, 07:11 PM
Root on the E mate.
I have to say that Posterboy mentioned getting my finger up to the fret too but it didn't sink into my head until I was browsing the topic again so sorry for that Posterboy 
Cheers
Posted by: AK Rich Feb 25 2019, 07:41 PM
I have to say that Posterboy mentioned getting my finger up to the fret too but it didn't sink into my head until I was browsing the topic again so sorry for that Posterboy
Cheers
Ah ok, so, same shape as G7 then, just move it down to the 7th fret root. That's good because I just realized the 2nd chord I showed is actually a C7 lol. I guess I just figured you were using these chords in a G7 blues context where C7 would be the IV chord I guess. It's a simple fix though if you decided to tackle that shape with the root on the A string. Just move the shape up one fret to the 2nd fret and voila, B7.
Posted by: Phil66 Feb 25 2019, 08:53 PM
Yeah thanks Rich,
I'm trying to break my habit of rushing and am not letting Gab reveal things as we progress. I tend to look into things too much and end up scrambling my brain so I now wiat for all to be revealed. It's hard though but it is helping with my patience
UPDATE:
Unbelievable! D string getting me again 
UPDATE :
Thinking in the early hours, when I first tried the index snugly against the fret and it worked it was Sunday evening. Last night when I was having trouble, it was after doing manual work for nine hours. I'm wondering if it's a stamina/fatigue thing.
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 8 2019, 10:08 AM
Well I thought I'd cracked it.
Wednesday night I played the chord shape up at the 12th fret and worked down to the 3rd fret. Did it a few times and it got better reach time.
Last night I tried again and the muted D string was back.
I just don't know what to do, surely it should take this long to nail ONE chord? 
I am actually having bad dreams about it, last night my fingers turned into twigs and I could play at all, there have been other dreams too, I always wake up really frustrated. As crazy as they are, dreams are real when you're having them 
Phil
UPDATE:
I've just remembered that the first time I tried working down from the 12th fret was with my Ibanez RG1570 and the second time, when I couldn't do it, was with my SRV Strat. Maybe I should stick to the Ibanez until I nail it on that guitar and then progress to the SRV what do you think?
Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 11 2019, 03:41 AM
The Ibby neck is nice and thin to be sure and doesn't have the heft that the fender neck has which can sometimes get in the way a bit. It all comes down to the player of course, but yeah, I'd guess that the Ibby neck may be a better way to get used to playing the bit and then once you get more comfy on it you can transition to any guitar in the shed
Todd
Wednesday night I played the chord shape up at the 12th fret and worked down to the 3rd fret. Did it a few times and it got better reach time.
Last night I tried again and the muted D string was back.
I just don't know what to do, surely it should take this long to nail ONE chord?
I am actually having bad dreams about it, last night my fingers turned into twigs and I could play at all, there have been other dreams too, I always wake up really frustrated. As crazy as they are, dreams are real when you're having them
Phil
UPDATE:
I've just remembered that the first time I tried working down from the 12th fret was with my Ibanez RG1570 and the second time, when I couldn't do it, was with my SRV Strat. Maybe I should stick to the Ibanez
until I nail it on that guitar and then progress to the SRV what do you think?Posted by: Phil66 Mar 11 2019, 08:28 AM
Thanks Todd,
I hope you're okay buddy.
I spoke to Gab and he said to practise every day on the SRV and then play on the Ibanez. Seems a good idea because at least I can get closer with the ibby so I won't feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. I think my index finger is trying to arch when I apply the other fingers so I'm concentrating on keeping it as flat as possible. E shape barre chords aren't an issue but the not barred notes are masking the issue
This is probably the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, I actually started thinking I had some biomechanical problem that was preventing me from doing it but I've hit it clearly sometimes so I know it is possible.
Cheers
Phil
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 15 2019, 02:00 PM
Let me know if this helps?
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 15 2019, 09:40 PM
Thank you for taking the time to do that for me Kris, much appreciated.
What is strange is that on Wednesday I could play it fine, I couldn't land on it quickly but every note rang out. I can normally only do that on my Ibanez but it was on my SRV Strat, tonight and last night I couldn't even do it on my Ibanez.
I find it hard to relax my hand because of the stretch. I think, what is happening is that when I put my pinky one the fret it is causing my index finger to arch slightly which is removing the pressure from the D string because that gets muted and it isn't my ring finger catching it.
Maybe some hand yoga is required, I've been trying to get this since December, I know it can be done because as I said, on Wednesday I could do it I just need to harness whatever was going on on Wednesday.
Here's a video of me building the chord tonight. Please excuse the grimacing facial expression 
https://youtu.be/0imSr8t2cxs
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 17 2019, 09:43 PM
Further to post above,
Tonight I managed to play it a few times on the SRV. I've found bringing my elbow forward helps. It is easiest on the Ibanez, thinner neck thinner strings etc but I'm studying blues with Gab at the moment and I want to play the blues on my SRV and Tele.
I'll get there but it is a little soul destroying at the moment.
Out of interest, what's your most difficult chord and how long did it take you to get all notes ringing out consistently?
Cheers
Phil
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 19 2019, 09:35 PM
Further to post above.
Tonight I tried on all of my guitars, 12 electric, 2 acoustic (one being a resonator). and the one I had the most success with was my cheap and cheerful Peavey Falcon II Tele, I always said it had one of the best necks I've played and everyone that has picked it up has said what a nice neck it is, it cost £125 about 25 years ago, yes that's how long I've owned guitars, many years wasted noodling though with many HUGE gaps between noodling, years in some cases, anyway, I found GMC and now things are happening albeit slowly.
Nothing to do with my playing but some info on the guitar in case you're interested. Mine is all stock though
https://youtu.be/x0ygNnQINX8
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 23 2019, 10:02 PM
Further to the above post, I've finally found a way to play the G7 and C7 barre chords without muting that D string, changes are very slow though, I'll have to work on the changes .
https://youtu.be/J4o1YJ4bxI8
Cheers
Phil
Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 25 2019, 01:46 PM
Ouch I see the desperation 
What is strange is that on Wednesday I could play it fine, I couldn't land on it quickly but every note rang out. I can normally only do that on my Ibanez but it was on my SRV Strat, tonight and last night I couldn't even do it on my Ibanez.
I find it hard to relax my hand because of the stretch. I think, what is happening is that when I put my pinky one the fret it is causing my index finger to arch slightly which is removing the pressure from the D string because that gets muted and it isn't my ring finger catching it.
Yeah - if I were to make a guess out of the blue, this would be my first choice.
Try the following, which is a great tension control exercise: fret the chord, gradually decrease hand pressure until no strings ring at all (your hand / arm should now be totally relaxed). Then, gradually increase finger pressure just to the point that you start hearing notes.
Try doing this for a few minutes in the beginning of your practice session, and after a week there is a chance of noticeable results.
Posted by: Phil66 Mar 25 2019, 01:58 PM
Thanks Kris, I'll give that a try.
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