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> Using Studio Monitors As Full Range Guitar Amp
Todd Simpson
post Nov 21 2018, 04:08 AM
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I started using my studio monitors as a practice rig and I love the way they sound. It sounds like my processor running through my guitar cab in another room with a nice mic, going in to my daw. It's actually just a plugin running on my laptop. So no need to try to tame a loud amp, no bleed through, no crazy volume required, very handy.
Anyone else use their studio monitors like this?


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Phil66
post Nov 21 2018, 07:17 AM
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Always play like this, well 90% of the time anyway.
I've also found that at bedroom levels my Helix into the return of my amp sounds better with the ir or cab block switched on. If I switch it off it sounds tinny through my 1x12.must be something to do with not moving much air.


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Mertay
post Nov 21 2018, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 21 2018, 06:17 AM) *
Always play like this, well 90% of the time anyway.
I've also found that at bedroom levels my Helix into the return of my amp sounds better with the ir or cab block switched on. If I switch it off it sounds tinny through my 1x12.must be something to do with not moving much air.


Try the high-cut but it might also be simply that the character of the cab. doesn't match well with your amp settings in Helix.


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Phil66
post Nov 21 2018, 11:29 AM
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Thanks Mertay,

When I said "tinny", I meant it sounds very thin, no bass, and kind of hollow like when you talk into an empty tin can. I'm talking of volume levels that you can talk over. That's why I think, but your experience far outweighs mine, that the Celestion V30 speaker isn't being worked at all which is why the ir sounds so much better, the real life cab is acting in the same way as the studio monitors, reproducing the ir sound of a speaker cab being pushed hard.

What do you think? I can put my SM57 on for you to hear the difference. At least with my wireless I can take the guitar into another room so the mic doesn't pic up anything other than the speaker.

Cheers

Phil


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Mertay
post Nov 21 2018, 12:46 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 21 2018, 10:29 AM) *
Thanks Mertay,

When I said "tinny", I meant it sounds very thin, no bass, and kind of hollow like when you talk into an empty tin can. I'm talking of volume levels that you can talk over. That's why I think, but your experience far outweighs mine, that the Celestion V30 speaker isn't being worked at all which is why the ir sounds so much better, the real life cab is acting in the same way as the studio monitors, reproducing the ir sound of a speaker cab being pushed hard.

What do you think? I can put my SM57 on for you to hear the difference. At least with my wireless I can take the guitar into another room so the mic doesn't pic up anything other than the speaker.

Cheers

Phil



Try slowly applying the high-cut parameter, once you notice the perceived volume drops then increase the output of the helix and continue doing this till you like what you hear. By doing this, we're trying to add bass by lowering the highs so your ear can focus on the fatness you think is adequate.

If it doesn't work and if ok for you yeah share 2 clips with helix ir cab. on and off. If you have a camera or phone mic. that might be better cause maybe the sm57 will add too much color for the soundclips.


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 21 2018, 01:45 PM
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I used to do that, but these days I have mic'ed up my Laney IronHeart, and I think it sounds just a bit more "warm" than plugins.


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Mertay
post Nov 21 2018, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 21 2018, 12:45 PM) *
I used to do that, but these days I have mic'ed up my Laney IronHeart, and I think it sounds just a bit more "warm" than plugins.


The beauty of connecting modellers to amp sends (this was actually standard when I was young and amp sim.s didn't exist) not only you're using the real cab. but getting poweramp coloration too, even if modest since we can't play at high volumes at home.

I keep my old,half broken peavey just for that instead of selling it (won't worth much but would've saved space) even though once in a while the mediocre boss gt-1 really transforms to something else.


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 21 2018, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 21 2018, 02:37 PM) *
...even if modest since we can't play at high volumes at home.


With the house I moved into half a year ago, having a music room with no neighbours to that side, I can almost play as loud as I want laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 21 2018, 06:00 PM


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Phil66
post Nov 21 2018, 04:14 PM
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I'm thinking though, the ir or cab sim is replicating a cab at decent volume levels and a Todd said, his monitors sound like a cranked amp and cab in the another room. That's why I don't think I'll ever get that through my cab at low volumes without the ir or cab sim switched on, it's just not moving enough air whereas with the ir or cab sim on, it is behaving like a big studio monitor.

I hope I'm mahjong sense.

Cheers


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Mertay
post Nov 21 2018, 05:05 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 21 2018, 03:14 PM) *
I'm thinking though, the ir or cab sim is replicating a cab at decent volume levels and a Todd said, his monitors sound like a cranked amp and cab in the another room. That's why I don't think I'll ever get that through my cab at low volumes without the ir or cab sim switched on, it's just not moving enough air whereas with the ir or cab sim on, it is behaving like a big studio monitor.

I hope I'm mahjong sense.

Cheers


An ir or cab. sim. really isn't something complicated. We can simply describe it as an eq setting;



This for example is an ir cab. response in a freq. graphic (blue). You'll notice the highs (right side) is decreasing meaning its filtering out high freq.s. Thats why I asked if you could try the high-cut on the Helix. Without changing any other freq.s (without changing your amps cab. character), we'll only decrease the highs this way but we will likely need and output increase from Helix. Its only 2 parameters I'm asking, just give it a shot to see if it works as I can't guarantee it will smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Nov 21 2018, 05:07 PM


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Phil66
post Nov 21 2018, 05:07 PM
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Yeah I will do buddy, as soon as I get chance wink.gif I'm just thinking that what happens at very low volume is the equal opposite of what happens when people leave the ir on when playing at high volume??


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Mertay
post Nov 21 2018, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 21 2018, 04:07 PM) *
Yeah I will do buddy, as soon as I get chance wink.gif I'm just thinking that what happens at very low volume is the equal opposite of what happens when people leave the ir on when playing at high volume??


In digital domain, nothing. Its like your eq in your hi-fi setup, it doesn't change tone no matter how loud you listen music. But the analog power stage of the amp will affect the drive tone the louder you play. Thats why while using the high-cut, increasing the output of Helix will matter when you're adjusting your tone. Because we'll be increasing the bass hitting the amp from Helix, the amps cab. may work better.

You can check Johan Segeborn's youtube where on some videos he plays a really cheap amp but its so loud (poweramp working so hard) the amps actually sound not so bad.



QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 21 2018, 02:06 PM) *
With the house I moved into half a year ago, having a music with no neighbours to that side, I can almost play as loud as I want laugh.gif


Lucky you! cool.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 21 2018, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 21 2018, 05:29 PM) *
In digital domain, nothing. Its like your eq in your hi-fi setup, it doesn't change tone no matter how loud you listen music. But the analog power stage of the amp will affect the drive tone the louder you play. Thats why while using the high-cut, increasing the output of Helix will matter when you're adjusting your tone. Because we'll be increasing the bass hitting the amp from Helix, the amps cab. may work better.

You can check Johan Segeborn's youtube where on some videos he plays a really cheap amp but its so loud (poweramp working so hard) the amps actually sound not so bad.





Lucky you! cool.gif


was suppsed to say "music room" of course! too little sleep last night smile.gif


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Phil66
post Nov 21 2018, 09:27 PM
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Nice one Ben,

I can play as loud as I like as we have no house attached at either side but my wife would be uncomfortable with it laugh.gif Plus the neighbours would be able to hear it in their garden and that would embarrass me unsure.gif

Ok Mertay, for some reason, I plug in tonight and the drastic difference isn't there that was there last time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had a read through what you asked me to do anyway, even though I'm not getting the same issue as before and it seems that I wouldn't be able to do what you wanted me to. I was, at the time, preferring the sound through the cab WITH the ir on, it was not so good with the ir off, therefore I wouldn't be able to use high cut to get the sound I prefer because I would be altering what I already like. If it was the other way around and I didn't like the sound with the ir then I could make high cut adjustments.

Sorry about this buddy, I'll try again at the weekend, maybe I had some crazy setting inadvertently switched on rolleyes.gif

Cheers

Phil


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Todd Simpson
post Nov 21 2018, 09:42 PM
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Thats a nice amp you got there! Getting real "amp tone" with a plugin or with a processor (other than a kemper) takes some serious tweaking imho. I hear really baaaad examples of how not to do it on youtube all day long. It often results in folks thinking it can't be done. It can be done but it's not as easy as folks seem to think sometimes. The kemper is a bit of a different story as it actually replicates an actual amp, which is handy smile.gif

I'm a big fan of your tone these days!! I liked your bias tone, but I think your current amp tone is much better. It's tighter on the bottom end and and sounds more "real" which is probably because it is real smile.gif
Todd
QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 21 2018, 08:45 AM) *
I used to do that, but these days I have mic'ed up my Laney IronHeart, and I think it sounds just a bit more "warm" than plugins.


Bingo!! smile.gif It's mostly EQ cutting the top end back. A regular guitar cab is NOT a full range device. It's a limited range device designed for guitar. For a "Full Range" system you have to use a PA speaker or a full range guitar cab which has mid / high frequency drivers. This is something that really catches some folks off guard til they get used to it.
QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 21 2018, 12:05 PM) *
An ir or cab. sim. really isn't something complicated. We can simply describe it as an eq setting;



This for example is an ir cab. response in a freq. graphic (blue). You'll notice the highs (right side) is decreasing meaning its filtering out high freq.s. Thats why I asked if you could try the high-cut on the Helix. Without changing any other freq.s (without changing your amps cab. character), we'll only decrease the highs this way but we will likely need and output increase from Helix. Its only 2 parameters I'm asking, just give it a shot to see if it works as I can't guarantee it will smile.gif


You can get power amp coloration in plugins too of course smile.gif BIAS is a good example. You can twek the power section with various power tube etc.
QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 21 2018, 09:37 AM) *
The beauty of connecting modellers to amp sends (this was actually standard when I was young and amp sim.s didn't exist) not only you're using the real cab. but getting poweramp coloration too, even if modest since we can't play at high volumes at home.

I keep my old,half broken peavey just for that instead of selling it (won't worth much but would've saved space) even though once in a while the mediocre boss gt-1 really transforms to something else.


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 21 2018, 09:42 PM
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Mertay
post Nov 22 2018, 08:15 AM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Nov 21 2018, 08:27 PM) *
...


No problem and no need to rush into it, have fun experimenting when you have the time and post if anything needed smile.gif


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