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> Sound Tweaking Lessons
Kristofer Dahl
post May 14 2019, 07:12 AM
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Hey guys,

I am thinking about producing some sound tweaking lessons for our community - and would like to check with you if you have any thoughts/suggestions for this topic.

Here you can see a video I recorded to give Yoncopin feedback in his REC thread.



Do you think this video is any good? Or is it a bit long and boring perhaps? Do you feel it's relevant (even though you might not have a Kemper amp)?


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Todd Simpson
post May 14 2019, 07:29 AM
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Great vid! Since it's got a kemper full center frame, it does come across as a kemper vid even though you are just using the kemper to demo tone concepts/building. So probably play great for kemper folks and maybe less for for non kemper folks just cause it looks like a kemper vid from the thumbnail. For more generic vids, I've seen folks use stock images/graphics to represent the amp/fx etc. This requires a wad more work in post production of course.

Todd
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ May 14 2019, 02:12 AM) *
Hey guys,

I am thinking about producing some sound tweaking lessons for our community - and would like to check with you if you have any thoughts/suggestions for this topic.

Here you can see a video I recorded to give Yoncopin feedback in his REC thread.



Do you think this video is any good? Or is it a bit long and boring perhaps? Do you feel it's relevant (even though you might not have a Kemper amp)?
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Phil66
post May 14 2019, 08:06 AM
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I think that would be really good. I remember a while back, Darius did a couple of tone workshops where students sent in their v tone and Darius explained how to improve it, things like adding effects and backing them off so that you only really know that they're there when you switch them off and on, almost imperceptible, but adding thickness to the sound.

Could be a great series, starting with how to build basic patches and the mystery of tweaking eq.

Cheers Kris


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 14 2019, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 14 2019, 08:29 AM) *
Great vid! Since it's got a kemper full center frame, it does come across as a kemper vid even though you are just using the kemper to demo tone concepts/building. So probably play great for kemper folks and maybe less for for non kemper folks just cause it looks like a kemper vid from the thumbnail. For more generic vids, I've seen folks use stock images/graphics to represent the amp/fx etc. This requires a wad more work in post production of course.

Todd


Yes it will inevitably feel very "kemperish" - as this is what I have been working with the last couple of years. As in my example video, I would explain how the thought process behind my tweaking is relevant for any digital unit (or any sound processor).

QUOTE (Phil66 @ May 14 2019, 09:06 AM) *
things like adding effects and backing them off so that you only really know that they're there when you switch them off and on, almost imperceptible, but adding thickness to the sound.


Yes, that one right there is an excellent tip!


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 14 2019, 02:24 PM
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Ok so I tried recording a new one - this time with an Yngwie type backing/tone in mind. The backing is from Marcus Lavendell's Neoclassical three level lesson.



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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 14 2019, 06:24 PM
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Hi Kris, I've watched the new one. This is very interesting! and now I want a Kemper! laugh.gif

These are some first thoughts about the vid:

- I would to see you and your guitar on main screen since the overal video will become more organic and entertained to watch.

- Having some comparisons can be cool. What about an A/B moment where we can hear the initial tone and the final tone?

- What's the target tone? In this case, I assume that you have Yngwie's tone in your head, but maybe adding any Yngwie's clip to let other people hear what's the target tone can be cool.




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yoncopin
post May 14 2019, 08:05 PM
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I think this is great! For me to take this lesson and really apply it I'd add two file attachments to the lesson.

1) A dry direct DI wav of you playing a short passage that applies to the lesson theme

2) A "wet" processed final wav file which is the 1st file reamped with your Kemper's final tone

I could then drop the two files in separate tracks in my DAW and while watching your video apply your techniques and A/B compare them with your results. That way the guitar technique isn't the limiting factor and I can just focus on the tone. Oh, and the backing track...

This post has been edited by yoncopin: May 14 2019, 08:10 PM


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Todd Simpson
post May 15 2019, 07:39 AM
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Good tips! having the wave files linked would be cool. Also, maybe having just a few simple graphics showing the signal chain so that folks can wrap their heads around it in the event that they are new to the whole thing. E.G. Show a guitar arrow to over drive pedal arrow to EQ arrow to amp etc. Once these graphics are built, they could all be re used of course.
QUOTE (yoncopin @ May 14 2019, 03:05 PM) *
I think this is great! For me to take this lesson and really apply it I'd add two file attachments to the lesson.

1) A dry direct DI wav of you playing a short passage that applies to the lesson theme

2) A "wet" processed final wav file which is the 1st file reamped with your Kemper's final tone

I could then drop the two files in separate tracks in my DAW and while watching your video apply your techniques and A/B compare them with your results. That way the guitar technique isn't the limiting factor and I can just focus on the tone. Oh, and the backing track...


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 15 2019, 07:39 AM
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Phil66
post May 15 2019, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ May 14 2019, 07:05 PM) *
I think this is great! For me to take this lesson and really apply it I'd add two file attachments to the lesson.

1) A dry direct DI wav of you playing a short passage that applies to the lesson theme

2) A "wet" processed final wav file which is the 1st file reamped with your Kemper's final tone

I could then drop the two files in separate tracks in my DAW and while watching your video apply your techniques and A/B compare them with your results. That way the guitar technique isn't the limiting factor and I can just focus on the tone. Oh, and the backing track...


That my friend is a superb idea imho. We've also got the tone from Mr Dahl's fingers and his guitar, it will be interesting to see how close we can get with our Helix. I won't, unfortunately be spending too much time on it though, need to practise but it would be good if it was a sticky for future reference.

Kris, how about a new section on gmc with courses like Ben's Beginner Course in the same format? Maybe this could be the start of a Tone Building box set? I've had a few ideas over time that I've discussed with you and the other instructors for box set style. I know it's a pretty big task but it's just a brainstormer for you for now, and I'm sure many would like to pick a box set and systematically work through it wink.gif

Cheers

This post has been edited by Phil66: May 16 2019, 10:02 AM


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Mertay
post May 15 2019, 01:33 PM
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I thought breaking down to 2 parts would be easier for a beginner to digest. First replicate the tone needed, then selecting a backtrack and tweaking accordingly.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 15 2019, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 15 2019, 09:33 AM) *
I thought breaking down to 2 parts would be easier for a beginner to digest. First replicate the tone needed, then selecting a backtrack and tweaking accordingly.



Two parts is a good idea!


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Kristofer Dahl
post May 16 2019, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (yoncopin @ May 14 2019, 09:05 PM) *
I think this is great! For me to take this lesson and really apply it I'd add two file attachments to the lesson.

1) A dry direct DI wav of you playing a short passage that applies to the lesson theme

2) A "wet" processed final wav file which is the 1st file reamped with your Kemper's final tone

I could then drop the two files in separate tracks in my DAW and while watching your video apply your techniques and A/B compare them with your results. That way the guitar technique isn't the limiting factor and I can just focus on the tone. Oh, and the backing track...


Ah that's interesting idea, it could perhaps even be made to a challenge of some kind as well. I also guess this could allow for some automated EQ/tone matching.

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 15 2019, 08:39 AM) *
Also, maybe having just a few simple graphics showing the signal chain so that folks can wrap their heads around it in the event that they are new to the whole thing. E.G. Show a guitar arrow to over drive pedal arrow to EQ arrow to amp etc. Once these graphics are built, they could all be re used of course.


I think this would be nice if I were stacking stomps to get my sound (Axe FX style) - but since I only use a single stomp and the rest is just tricks/tweaking I am not sure how much value it would add.


QUOTE (Mertay @ May 15 2019, 02:33 PM) *
I thought breaking down to 2 parts would be easier for a beginner to digest. First replicate the tone needed, then selecting a backtrack and tweaking accordingly.


Yeah agreed, this format is not beginner friendly at all. I am just experimenting to see if this type of video is something I enjoy doing.

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 14 2019, 07:24 PM) *
Hi Kris, I've watched the new one. This is very interesting! and now I want a Kemper! laugh.gif

These are some first thoughts about the vid:

- I would to see you and your guitar on main screen since the overal video will become more organic and entertained to watch.

- Having some comparisons can be cool. What about an A/B moment where we can hear the initial tone and the final tone?

- What's the target tone? In this case, I assume that you have Yngwie's tone in your head, but maybe adding any Yngwie's clip to let other people hear what's the target tone can be cool.


The kemper sure has some unique features!

I agree with all of these.

Several people have approached me about breaking down specifics tones. But just like transcribing other peoples licks - it is something I have a really hard time doing. It seems that unless I can play exactly what I want to (ie jam) I loose interest in playing. So I always go for something I hear in my head - whether it's a tone or lick.



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yoncopin
post May 16 2019, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ May 16 2019, 04:39 AM) *
Ah that's interesting idea, it could perhaps even be made to a challenge of some kind as well. I also guess this could allow for some automated EQ/tone matching.


Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of the REC model. Something I could work on and get feedback from, I guess either in a mentor thread or a REC entry. I kind of need outside ears to tell me if I'm getting it, similar to the playing feedback. I find that I spend 99% of my time on learning a REC lesson and 1% on tone, but from the feedback I get the tone is usually a bigger part.


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