Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
GMC Forum _ Lcsdds _ Jer Mtp
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 25 2009, 03:46 PM
Welcome Jer. 
Go ahead and read the first post in the main thread and also read about the first weeks assignments in that thread as well. Let me know if you have any questions. Please keep all your posts in this thread so I can keep everything clean and easy to navigate in the main thread. Great to have you aboard and LETS ROCK!.
Posted by: opeth.db Feb 25 2009, 03:47 PM
Woohoo!
Posted by: jer Feb 25 2009, 04:22 PM
Jer 36 yrs old. Husband, Dad, Friend, Metalhead!!!!!
IT’S NEVER TOO LATE TO BUCKLE DOWN AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO PLAY!
Right?
RIGHT!!!!!
My story isn’t that much different than many other that I’ve read here. I’ve been playing off and on for years. Almost 20 years. Yet I would get smoked by guys who have been playing for 1 year under the right teacher. For the most part I’m self taught. I’ve dabbled in a few different lesson programs but didn’t stick with any of them. The most I’ve ever accomplished via any real study was my run through the MTP pilot program with Can (Enforcer). That went VERY well and I’m happy to be back here and working with more MTP students and instructors.
As a fulltime husband, dad, friend, employee, etc I don’t have hours and hours to play guitar. It’s not my only hobby and I wouldn’t be happy if it was. I like lots of things and that wont change. What I do need though is direction and a plan that will work for ME. To keep my playing moving forward. I’m not in a big hurry. I play on spending at least another 60 years on this planet, (if the rest of humanity doesn’t blow it up first) so I have time. As long as I am moving forward I’ll be succeeding. It’s a journey. One that I have the patience for.
I play guitar in a progressive metal band as well. We’re currently un-named. I hold down the rhythm guitar slot and am trying to get into writing but that’s been a real challenge….
I’ve always appreciated the right notes at the right time. Feel. Soul. Emotion. Gripping. These are the words that I’d use to describe the most meaningful pieces. Solos that make you tell everyone in the car to shut up so you can hear it.
Some of my favorite lead guitar bits.
Judas Priest (Glenn Tipton) “Beyond The Realms of Death”
Solo starts at 3:04
To me this kind of solo is just the best. Lots of feeling. Cool licks. Follows and fits the song perfectly. Not too much, not too little.
Opeth (Mikael Akerfeldt) ”Windowpane”
Solo at 1:20 and 5:16
Just gorgeous. Again, heaps and heaps of emotion. How can you not stop and listen to this. All the right notes….
Bruce Dickinson (Roy Z) “Gates of Urizen”
Fill at 1:15
Solo stats at 2:28
Melodic.
1-What is your level of theory knowledge? – basic. I understand it but haven’t done much application of it.
Do you know your diatonic and pentatonic boxes? – Some. I have learned them before. But I easily forget them since I don’t use them.
Do you know your triads? – not really. I have learned them probably 4-5 times now but didn’t use it. Don’t use it = lose it.
2-Do you know how to count rhythms along with a metronome? - yes
Do you practice with a metronome? No. And I know I should.
3-If you could play any lesson on GMC what would it be? I don’t know. I don’t really have a specific piece of music in mind. My goal isn’t to be able to mimic others. But create my own awesomeness!
4-Give me a brief introduction about yourself and what you are hoping to get out of this MTP program. A foundation for continued learning. Learning what works for ME. So I can continue my journey.
For the record. Going forward I will refer to the metronome as the "KAZ-BOX".
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 25 2009, 05:21 PM
IT’S NEVER TOO LATE TO BUCKLE DOWN AND ACTUALLY LEARN TO PLAY!
Right?
RIGHT!!!!!
My story isn’t that much different than many other that I’ve read here. I’ve been playing off and on for years. Almost 20 years. Yet I would get smoked by guys who have been playing for 1 year under the right teacher. For the most part I’m self taught. I’ve dabbled in a few different lesson programs but didn’t stick with any of them. The most I’ve ever accomplished via any real study was my run through the MTP pilot program with Can (Enforcer). That went VERY well and I’m happy to be back here and working with more MTP students and instructors.
As a fulltime husband, dad, friend, employee, etc I don’t have hours and hours to play guitar. It’s not my only hobby and I wouldn’t be happy if it was. I like lots of things and that wont change. What I do need though is direction and a plan that will work for ME. To keep my playing moving forward. I’m not in a big hurry. I play on spending at least another 60 years on this planet, (if the rest of humanity doesn’t blow it up first) so I have time. As long as I am moving forward I’ll be succeeding. It’s a journey. One that I have the patience for.
I play guitar in a progressive metal band as well. We’re currently un-named. I hold down the rhythm guitar slot and am trying to get into writing but that’s been a real challenge….
I’ve always appreciated the right notes at the right time. Feel. Soul. Emotion. Gripping. These are the words that I’d use to describe the most meaningful pieces. Solos that make you tell everyone in the car to shut up so you can hear it.
Some of my favorite lead guitar bits.
Judas Priest (Glenn Tipton) “Beyond The Realms of Death”
Solo starts at 3:04
To me this kind of solo is just the best. Lots of feeling. Cool licks. Follows and fits the song perfectly. Not too much, not too little.
Opeth (Mikael Akerfeldt) ”Windowpane”
Solo at 1:20 and 5:16
Just gorgeous. Again, heaps and heaps of emotion. How can you not stop and listen to this. All the right notes….
Bruce Dickinson (Roy Z) “Gates of Urizen”
Fill at 1:15
Solo stats at 2:28
Melodic.
1-What is your level of theory knowledge? – basic. I understand it but haven’t done much application of it.
Do you know your diatonic and pentatonic boxes? – Some. I have learned them before. But I easily forget them since I don’t use them.
Do you know your triads? – not really. I have learned them probably 4-5 times now but didn’t use it. Don’t use it = lose it.
2-Do you know how to count rhythms along with a metronome? - yes
Do you practice with a metronome? No. And I know I should.
3-If you could play any lesson on GMC what would it be? I don’t know. I don’t really have a specific piece of music in mind. My goal isn’t to be able to mimic others. But create my own awesomeness!
4-Give me a brief introduction about yourself and what you are hoping to get out of this MTP program. A foundation for continued learning. Learning what works for ME. So I can continue my journey.
For the record. Going forward I will refer to the metronome as the "KAZ-BOX".
Nice Jer! Between you, me and Dan we have the 80's well represented!! Look forward to working with you and I have a feeling that you and the "KAZ-BOX" are gonna be great friends.
I have a feeling the "KAZ-BOX" is gonna be featured on the GMC funnies at some point. We love ya KAZ!!
So Jer, my first assignment for you in addition to what we are all doing as a group. I going to be this:
I want you to pick 2 techniques that you want to improve on and I am going to write you a couple of simple licks using 16th notes, quintuplets (groups of five) and triplets. Your assingment is going to be to spend 5 minutes a day on each lick and post a video of you playing it in time with the "KAZ-BOX".
Let me know what techniques you want the excercises in. Get to work my man!!
Posted by: kaznie_NL Feb 25 2009, 05:23 PM
WAAAAAAAHHH!!! Hahaha, I wish I would have shut this big mouth up
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 25 2009, 05:32 PM
"KAZ-BOX" sounds way cooler than metronome.
Posted by: jer Feb 25 2009, 05:48 PM
Of course now I have "Rockin the Kaz Box, Rockin the Kaz-Box" stuck in my head.....
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 25 2009, 11:18 PM
Jer,
I've been thinking about what to do with you. I don't think you are in the same place Dan is right now as far as where you want your playing to go. Maybe I am wrong and you can tell me if I am. Here are my 2 goals for you:
1-I want you to learn how to "rock the KAZ-BOX".
This will enable you to play all those Priest and Iron Maiden solos that you can play "except for the fast licks".
2-I want you to learn your scales and triads and start using them in creating your own "awesomeness".
How we go about this is up to you. If you want to show me a solo you want to learn to play I will teach you how to break it down and use the Kaz-Box so that you can play it.
Here in my mind is your problem. You practice inefficiently. That's it. You practice either to a backing track, which is fine when you can slow it down like a GP tab or whatever but you try to practice the whole solo or most of the solo and then screw up in the exact same spot and then start all the way at the beginning and repeat. What you need to do is ISOLATE the lick that is causing you problems and just work on that separately.
I'm gonna show you exactly what I want you to do and if you don't do it I'm gonna come to Iowa and shove a milk bone up your butt and an hungry dog down your throat!! You WILL play a solo that you have always wanted to play, and up to tempo, before I am done with you.
Just let me know what solo you want to work on and we'll start breaking it down and I'll show you how to I want you to start "ROCKING THE KAZ-BOX" with it!!
Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 04:03 AM
Here be this weeks video.
Milk bones and hungry dogs eh?
Sounds... Interesting. You guys get real bored way out there in Oregon eh?
I'm gonna go with "Electric Eye" by Judas Priest.
Its got a few different cool licks in it.
Here is a live version. Solo starts at 2:17 or so.
I'm gonna need some red leather pants.....
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 26 2009, 04:10 AM
Jer did you notice you were economy picking the A major Ionian shape when aescending? You started with a downstroke everytime you changed strings. No big deal, just wanted you to be aware of it. Actually we do get bored out here in Oregon. Nothing but trees to hug and squirrels to kiss.
"Electric Eye" it is!! So do you happen to have a GP tab on this that maybe you have been working from? If not see if you can locate one and email it to me, you have my address. I'll look it over and show you how I want you to break it down. How much time do you have realistically to practice each day? I don't want to overwhelm you and I want to give you a realistic schedule. Thanks buddy and way to rock the Kaz-Box!!
Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 05:29 AM
I'd say any solo cliche lines would be good. Ones that use multiple strings. That and hammer ons and pull offs.
No... I don't know what economy picking is.
Schedule? Tough to say. One day I can do an hour, the next I'm go go go from the time I get home til 8:30pm.... Then I'm beat.
Or I have band practice right after supper and I'm home at 10pm....
I can always get in a few 1hr sessions on the weekends. Weekdays are real hit or miss....
Squeezing in 15-20 min on a weeknight isnt unrealistic 2-3 times a week.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 26 2009, 05:33 AM
No... I don't know what economy picking is.
Schedule? Tough to say. One day I can do an hour, the next I'm go go go from the time I get home til 8:30pm.... Then I'm beat.
Or I have band practice right after supper and I'm home at 10pm....
I can always get in a few 1hr sessions on the weekends. Weekdays are real hit or miss....
Squeezing in 15-20 min on a weeknight isnt unrealistic 2-3 times a week.
We'll go over economy picking later. Your killing me smalls!!
Alright Jer, if you can commit 20 min a night to learning this solo I'll show you how to do it but you are gonna need plenty of batteries for your Kaz-Box!!
Obviously more than 20 minutes would be cool but if you can at least commit to that I will get you to where you can play that bad boy. You are gonna have to get the red leather pants yourself though. Although I think Dan might have some he's not using anymore, you'll have to check with him!! Are you on board dude?
Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 05:39 AM
I really don't know... I don't feel I have any strengths. I have managed to play a few things but I dont think I have strengths per se.
Legato? I've seen that word used so many different ways you'd have to define it. I think its a very improperly used term.
Tapping? I wouldnt mind some. Electric Eye has a tapping lick in it. Its not a technique I would use often though.
Sweeping? Not so much. That (to me anyway) only sounds right in very high tempo stuff. And I'm not really headed there.
Really, just syncing up the hands and getting past the "walk fast" speeds is a good target. Being able to play faster than I can now.
Here is another example of the kind of soloing I like.
2:13
Firewind - I Am The Anger
Oh yeah. No problem here.
I'm shooting low. I'd like to have more time. And I likely will. But I don't want to overstate things. Like this weekend we have company coming again. Wife's niece and nephew, their wives/husbands & kids.... Very little practice time. I have to entertain.
I'm in no hurry. You wont hear me complaining that we aren't moving fast enough. Its my schedule that limits me. Not yours.
Damn job..... That'd free up 9hrs real quick!!!!
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 26 2009, 05:55 AM
If the firewind tune is the kind of soloing you like I would say you are wanting to shred!!
Alright Jer so here is what I would like you to do. I am gonna send you the tab for the priest solo via email. In the tab you are gonna see that I have broken the solo up into several different licks. You are gonna learn to phrase the licks separately and with just you, your axe and the Kaz-Box. First thing you are gonna do is memorize the licks. Once you memorize them you are gonna take them to your Kaz-Box and work them up to tempo. I'll post again tomorrow and tell you which lick we are gonna start with tomorrow. For this first solo I want you to only work on the lick I have assigned you and as you get one memorized and can work on it with the Kaz-Box we'll add another one. I am gonna walk you through this first solo slowly. Talk to you tomorrow buddy.
BTW, since you are time challenged we are gonna be as efficient as possible so if you don't have a timer I want you to get one please.
Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 06:00 AM
works for me. 
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 26 2009, 06:16 AM
Dude....If that is a WRITTEN practice schedule then you and I are gonna get along GREAT!!
Looks like you are ready to roll. I'll get you your tab and your first lick tomorrow. Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 01:19 PM
Oh no, thats an episode guide to Penn and Teller's show BULL$HIT.
Great show!!!!!
Still, I think we'll be ok.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 26 2009, 08:06 PM
Hi Jer,
So I emailed you a GP file of the "electric eye" solo. You'll notice that I labeled all the fast parts lick 1, lick 2 etc., I think there are 5 of them.
So I am gonna learn this bad boy with you. First thing I want you to do is to learn the first 2 licks that I have labeled. Both of them are phrased as 8th note triplets (3 notes per beat). I know you know you can count those with your Kaz-Box because I saw your assignment video last night where you played the A major Ionian box in triplets.
What I want to see you do is learn the first 2 licks and try and figure the number of KU's you can play them at CLEANLY. This will be our baseline tempo and we'll build from there. I'm gonna learn them as well. If you have extra time you can learn the other 3 licks and figure out what your top CLEAN speed is in KU's as well. We're not gonna worry about the bending and slower licks at this point. I know you can bend and play the slower stuff just fine. We are gonna focus on the shred licks and get you to where you can play them.
Should we get a "whoa bundy"?
Posted by: jer Feb 26 2009, 08:24 PM
Sounds good. I'll dive into this tonight.
\m/ \m/
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 02:00 AM
ok. Bars 1 and 2 make sense. Triplets throughout. No prob. I'm at 90. 95 and I start messing it up.... This is a real pinky workout too. Which is good.
Bars 3 and 4. How do I tell by looking at the tab where the notes fall? Bars 1 and 2 are easy. Bar 3 that first note has a dot next to it. What does that mean? Is that note counts 1-3 and the next note is a quarter note? (4)
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 02:33 AM
Bars 3 and 4. How do I tell by looking at the tab where the notes fall? Bars 1 and 2 are easy. Bar 3 that first note has a dot next to it. What does that mean? Is that note counts 1-3 and the next note is a quarter note? (4)
Check out the tab Jer. Lick 1 is only bars 1&2. Lick 2 is only bars 5&6. We aren't gonna worry about the bends and timing just yet but we'll get there I promise. Stick with me on this alright? Just the speed licks for now. I know you know how to bend and play the slower stuff just fine. I want to concentrate on teaching you how to take a faster lick and work it up to tempo. If you could post a video of your top clean speed played along with metronome on those two licks once you get them memorized that would be great.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 03:16 AM
ahhh I see. I thought where lick 2 started, lick one ended.
Gotcha.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 04:29 AM
So Jer here is what we're gonna do. For next week we are gonna focus on just the first 2 licks.
For lick 1 we are gonna use 90 KU's for your top clean speed and 100 KU's for your target speed.
You are gonna take your Kaz-Box and set it for 50 KU's and set your timer for 1 minute and play that lick over and over.
You are gonna do the same thing for 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 KU's. Play them all for 1 minute. So five minutes total on the Lick 1.
Here is why I want you to do this. At 50, 60, 70 and 80 KU's you are playing well below your top clean speed and really ingraining the motions required to play the lick into your muscle memory and your are playing extremely clean and accurate. When you get to 90 it should feel really comfortable. When you get to 100 you are gonna be maybe playing 70-75 percent accurate but you are teaching your brain and fingers what it is like to go faster. Over the course of the week you will find that when you jump up to 100 again you are getting more and more accurate. I want you to do this same thing when you figure out your top clean speed for lick 2.
The purpose of the timer for me is to keep me on schedule. I am like you, I have a wife, kids, career etc., so my practice time is limited. When I practice I want to make sure I am getting the most out of my session. I got frustrated that I would practice for 2 hours and feel like I didn't get through all the material I wanted to because I would get distracted. So I got the timer to keep me on schedule. Now I can take a couple of hours and get through a lot of material because the timer keeps me on schedule. If this isn't important to you don't do it but if you use this method then you know you can go into your practice space and in 25 minutes you can pretty thoroughly and in a focused matter get through the "Electric Eye" solo. I want you to just try it my way with the timer for one month and see if you don't see progress. The key here is consistency, really try and get at least through the 5 licks each day once you learn them. Once you get the speed licks up to a respectable tempo we will work on integrating them with the slower licks and I'll go into more detail about how to count each individual measure. If you are consistent with this I can guarantee you that you WILL get this solo up to tempo, it is just a matter of time and consistent correct practicing.
For you video posts I don't want to see you playing along with the CD or anything. Just you, your axe and the Kaz-Box. Can you do that for me dude?
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 01:36 PM
Yep, can do.
The only question I have is:
Don't I need to know how to count each measure before I start practicing it? Otherwise I'm practicing it wrong, yes?
Bars 5 and 6 for example. I dont know how to count those.... I dont want to start playing them and just guess. Otherwise that is valuable minutes wasted playing them wrong. And worse yet, ingraining them WRONG.
Bars 1 and 2 are easy. 4 sets of 3.
Question: And this is off topic... What is your definition of "Legato"?
Question 3: How do you recommend picking lick 1?
I just ran through 1 minute each of 50-60-70-80-90-100 KUs on Lick 1. I'll be doing the same after work before band practice.
Little chunks like this I can knock out a handful of times in a given day.
Posted by: opeth.db Feb 27 2009, 02:09 PM
Jer-
I found the timer is a super efficient way of practicing when we have all the stuff like we do goin on...
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 02:36 PM
Oh yeah, I agree.
That timer in the picture ain't new. And its been sitting on my desk for a while now.
My daughter has me bouncing all over the house like a dang Tigger on crack. I couldnt tell you how long I've been at something since its always in 30 sec clips. Its like she has a sensor that goes off whenever dad sits down. Her mom is the same way. I could spend an hour in the kitchen/dining/living room and nobody would even acknowledge I'm home. But as soon as I disappear around the corner to my guitar room its "DAAAAAAAAAAD!" And ya can't always wait til bedtime cuz man, I've been up since 5:30 too! Come 8:30 - 9pm my motivation starts dwindling....
Don't get me wrong. I love em. And I wouldnt trade them for the world. (wife and kid) They just are very un-conducive to productive practice.
Question 4: Triads. Kaznie mentioned this in his thread too. What is the purpose of them in that 1st lesson? I don't really understand the significance of learning these. I know what they are, the building blocks for different chord types. Can you elaborate?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 02:39 PM
The only question I have is:
Don't I need to know how to count each measure before I start practicing it? Otherwise I'm practicing it wrong, yes?
Bars 5 and 6 for example. I dont know how to count those.... I dont want to start playing them and just guess. Otherwise that is valuable minutes wasted playing them wrong. And worse yet, ingraining them WRONG.
Bars 1 and 2 are easy. 4 sets of 3.
Question: And this is off topic... What is your definition of "Legato"?
Question 3: How do you recommend picking lick 1?
I just ran through 1 minute each of 50-60-70-80-90-100 KUs on Lick 1. I'll be doing the same after work before band practice.
Little chunks like this I can knock out a handful of times in a given day.
Pick Lick 1 with all downstrokes!!
For lick 2 look at the picture I provided and play where the words are capitalized. Rest or hold the note where the words are in lower case.
At this point Jer I wouldn't worry about the bend leading into bar 5 or the last note of bar 6. When you get the lick up to a reasonable tempo that will be easy to sort out, but you can work on incorporating the first bend if you would like but only after you have done 1 cycle of 5 minutes at the different tempos of just the run. After you do that you can play the lick again and try to get the feel of where the bend from bar 4 leading into bar 5 falls. Think of these two licks as pure excercises that when you get them up to tempo you are going to use in a solo. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE!!
I am really at this point just wanting you to focus on just the run. I know you can bend just fine.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 02:47 PM
Yep, I'm with ya, we'll leave them out then. They are part of the prescribed bars so I had to ask.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 02:49 PM
That timer in the picture ain't new. And its been sitting on my desk for a while now.
My daughter has me bouncing all over the house like a dang Tigger on crack. I couldnt tell you how long I've been at something since its always in 30 sec clips. Its like she has a sensor that goes off whenever dad sits down. Her mom is the same way. I could spend an hour in the kitchen/dining/living room and nobody would even acknowledge I'm home. But as soon as I disappear around the corner to my guitar room its "DAAAAAAAAAAD!" And ya can't always wait til bedtime cuz man, I've been up since 5:30 too! Come 8:30 - 9pm my motivation starts dwindling....
Don't get me wrong. I love em. And I wouldnt trade them for the world. (wife and kid) They just are very un-conducive to productive practice.
Question 4: Triads. Kaznie mentioned this in his thread too. What is the purpose of them in that 1st lesson? I don't really understand the significance of learning these. I know what they are, the building blocks for different chord types. Can you elaborate?
The triads are important for a few different reasons.
1) They are simple 3 string shapes that you can use for riffing in your rhythm playing. EVH does this ALL THE TIME.
2) They are great for playing arpeggios if you want to throw in some sweeps in your solo.
3) They are "safe/strong" notes when soloing and focusing on these notes make your solos more melodic.
Let's say I am trying to solo over and E major chord. I can find an E major triad shape and then picture either my diatonic or pentatonic box around it and I know that those notes in the triad are good "landing notes" for my licks and phrases.
Every one of those diatonic and pentatonic boxes contain EVERY triad that can be built from the scale. In the case of the tab I gave you guys it would be the major and minor triads found in the key of A major. I am gonna elaborate on this some more today in the main thread so stay tuned. I hope that at least helps for now.
BTW Jer, I define legato as using as many hammer-ons and pull-offs as possibe. In the case of tapping ALL hammer-ons and pull-offs. When I do a legato run I only pick when necessary to change strings and sometimes not even then.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 03:03 PM
I'd love to learn more about this. Whenever the time is right. Just know that. It doesnt need to be now.... Maybe you could point out some examples in the Electric Eye solo. "Here we are soloing over X chord, see how the lick is based around this pattern and he lands here?" That kinda thing. Stuff in context is KEY with me. (and not just me I'm sure) I'm sure you already know that though.
I'm with ya. Yeah, thats the definition I use too. More left hand than right. Fluid, left hand playing. Little to no picking. Very "Satch-ey"
Would lick 1 in electric eye be considered a legato lick? I'd think so. We're picking 1/3 of it.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 04:23 PM
I'm with ya. Yeah, thats the definition I use too. More left hand than right. Fluid, left hand playing. Little to no picking. Very "Satch-ey"
Would lick 1 in electric eye be considered a legato lick? I'd think so. We're picking 1/3 of it.
You are gonna learn more about triads, scales and soloing this next week dude!!
Jer....Dan say you have some recording skills and since you only have two simple licks to memorize for the week I am gonna give you two assingments that I am hoping you can help me out with, especially since I have little to no recording skills.
1) I need you to tell me what triads can be found in the Key of D major. If you don't know then refer to the lesson by Andrew on chords and scales. The link can be found in the main thread.
2) If you could would you please record a simple backing track for me. Drums, clean guitar and bass if it is not too much trouble.
I want the tempo to be about 100 KU and the progression to be 2 bars of D major and 2 bars of E major. Loop this four times so we have 16 bars total and once you do this if you could post it in your thread and I will refer everybody here to download it. Thanks dude and I hope that it won't be too much trouble.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 04:49 PM
You bet.
I want the tempo to be about 100 KU and the progression to be 2 bars of D major and 2 bars of E major. Loop this four times so we have 16 bars total and once you do this if you could post it in your thread and I will refer everybody here to download it. Thanks dude and I hope that it won't be too much trouble.
Yep. Can do.
4 strums per bar?
I'm going to work this out here on paper. So you can see my thinking. I'mnot sure if I am right or not.
Dmaj = D E F# G A B C#
D, F#, A
E, G, B
F#, A, C#
G, B, D
A, C#, E
B, D, F#
C#, E, G
Now... I know that the order of these is constant for major. But I cant remember what it is. I know the last one is diminished.
I had to look it up.
Dmaj
Emin
F#min
Gmaj
Amaj
Bmin
C#dim
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 05:19 PM
Yep. Can do.
4 strums per bar?
I'm going to work this out here on paper. So you can see my thinking. I'mnot sure if I am right or not.
Dmaj = D E F# G A B C#
D, F#, A
E, G, B
F#, A, C#
G, B, D
A, C#, E
B, D, F#
C#, E, G
Now... I know that the order of these is constant for major. But I cant remember what it is. I know the last one is diminished.
I had to look it up.
Dmaj
Emin
F#min
Gmaj
Amaj
Bmin
C#dim
First things first. How the heck do you get it to where you can break up the quotes like you do and answer specific questions? Dumb it down for me, remember I'm a dentist.
For the track lets go for a strum on the 1 of the first beat and the "and" of the 4th beat. So strum the down beat of the first beat and the up beat of the 4th beat and then hold this through the second bar. So only two strums per chord all happening in the first bar of each chord, no strums in the second bar of each chord also bump the tempo up to maybe 120 KU or so. I'll let you decide but I am going for a Satchey ballad type feel. Got it?
Thanks.You were correct on the chords for D major. Good job!! Check the main thread over the next couple of days as I am going to elaborate on some things and give you guys a fun assingment. Also, if everybody uploads some takes over this chord progression could you mix it? Thanks dude!!
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 05:31 PM
I copy and paste the part I want to quote from the message and use the quote button. To the right of the smiley. Highlight what you want to quote (after pasting it into your message) and then click that.
Yeah I thik I have it.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 06:12 PM
Cool. Jeremy, just email me the backing track if you would and I'll go ahead and post it on the main thread. So you can mix everything then? Thanks.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 06:21 PM
Sure.
I'll make the backing late tonight or tomorrow morning.
and yeah, I can mix it.
I'm happy to help ya with any recording questions you may have. I'm not a wiz by any means but I've figured a few things out.
Posted by: jer Feb 27 2009, 10:46 PM
Is there a reason you left out G#dim?
I'm lost. We just went through all of that to find what will give it a lydian feel and you are going to use D and E? These aren't going to sound "Lydian" are they?
So far in everything we've talked about, why are we using the word "triad"?
These are just the chords of the scale yes?
Just to make sure I have the backing track thing right.
D D E E
Repeat 3 more times. Clean guitar chords. Bass notes mirroring the guitar chords. Basic 4/4 drum beat.
ok, lots of formatting involved in making that last post look right. I'm finished editiing it.......
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 27 2009, 11:30 PM
Remember from my post that to find out what gives Lydian its characteristic sound we compare it to the Ionian scale. There was only one note difference and that was G#. So we try to EMPHASIZE those chords that contain G# in our chord progression. In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min. In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major. The reason for this is the G#. So in D Lydian the note that gives it its characteristic sound is G#. I want you to look at the chart I gave you Jer and tell me what keys contain within them a D major AND an E major triad. Please post back here with the Answer.
You could use G# dim as well but it sounds kind of strange to my ear so I chose not to use it in the chord progression. You don't have to use all the chords that contain the G# note to get a D lydian feel, but you have to use some. Which ones is up to you.
These are just the chords of the scale yes?
Correct Jer!! Triads are just 3 note chords and we can get other chords like 7th and 9th chords by adding additional notes to these triads. The triad is just the most basic chord. We'll get more into that later. Good job!!
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 01:57 AM
Jer,
I got two questions for you.
1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a C#min triad?
2) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and an Emaj triad?
Use the chart I gave you and post back and let me know. Thanks dude!!
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 12:27 PM
Hi Jer,
I am wanting to solo over a D mixolydian chord progression. From reading the posts I did in the main thread can you answer the following questions please?
1) Is this a Major or Minor mode?
2) What is it's scale of comparison to figure out my chord options?
3) What are my diatonic scale options for soloing over this?
4) What are my pentatonic scale options for soloing over this?
Use the chart I gave you to figure these out. Thanks Jer. \m/ \m/
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 03:03 PM
We're getting too far ahead. Its going to make this thread tough to follow. I'm backing up 7 questions to this:
These 2 statements sound contradictory.
In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min.
In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.
Is one of those supposed to be Lydian?
Dmaj would be D, F#, A (I have to write out the whole scale and erase the 2,4,6,7)
C#min would be C#, E, G#
A Ionian, B Dorian, C# Phrygian, D Lydian, E Mixolydian, F# Aeolian, & G# Locrian
Dmaj = D, F#, A,
Emaj = E, G#, B,
Same as last time... A Ionian, B Dorian, C# Phrygian, D Lydian, E Mixolydian, F# Aeolian, G# Locrian
1) Is this a Major or Minor mode?
Major.
D Major? (kinda guessing since this is a new concept. "Scale Comparison") If the chord progression is Mixolydian though, don't you need the chords for D Mixolydian? Not D Ionian? If you said you wanted to do a Mixolydian solo over an Ionian progression I'd say Dmaj... But if its a Mixolydian chord progression I don't know why you'd use a scale of comparison.
Lets come back to this after we get through the above parts.
Lets come back to this after we get through the above parts.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 03:25 PM
In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min.
In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.
Is one of those supposed to be Lydian?
You are right Jer, sorry for the typo.
D Lydian contains G#dim, E major and C#min.
See, you do understand!!
Use the chart I gave you in the post Jer. I gave it to you so you wouldn't have to write stuff out every time. Major triads only occur in the I, IV and V position. Go to your chart and find the Ionian position and then go down until you fin 'D' Then look across and see if there is an "E" in the IV or V position. Do the Same for the IV and V positions. USE THE CHART, I did the work so you wouldn't have to!!
Use the Chart Jer and see if you can find a D in the I, IV or V postion and a C# in the ii, ii, or vi postion in the same row. USE THE CHART!!!
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 03:29 PM
Then I dont think I understand the chart.
For Dmaj triad (example) I need to know the notes of Dmaj. I could look at the chart for D Ionian and get them, but I feel I need to know them without a crutch. So Istart with D and go wwhwwwh and get the notes. Then to get the DMaj triad I keep the 1,3,5 and drop the rest.
THEN
I use the chart. I look for a D. Then once I find one I look for a F# 2 steps to the right. And if I find one I look for an A 2 steps to the right of that. If I find it all on the same line then we have a winner.
Were my answers correct?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 03:35 PM
D major/Ionian is the Scale of comparison. The reason you compare the two scales is because D Ionian and D mixolydian BOTH contain a D major triad. I want to know what triads does D mixolydian contain that D Ionian doesn't so I can use those chords in my chord progression to distinguish it from D Ionian. Remember that Ionian and Mixolydian are both Major SOUNDING modes. Think of Mixolydian and Lydian as DIFFERENT FLAVORS of the Ionian mode.
For Dmaj triad (example) I need to know the notes of Dmaj. I could look at the chart for D Ionian and get them, but I feel I need to know them without a crutch. So Istart with D and go wwhwwwh and get the notes. Then to get the DMaj triad I keep the 1,3,5 and drop the rest.
THEN
I use the chart. I look for a D. Then once I find one I look for a F# 2 steps to the right. And if I find one I look for an A 2 steps to the right of that. If I find it all on the same line then we have a winner.
Were my answers correct?
You could do that Jer but the point of the chart is so you can quickly reference which triads occur in which modes. If you want to do a long division problem you could write it out on paper and figure it out, or you could quickly grab your calculator and figure it out A LOT quicker.
Your answers were right though. With the chart all you need to know is that Major triads occur at the I, IV and V positions and Minor triads occur at the ii, iii and vi positions.
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 04:20 PM
I still don't know what that means.... If the notes of a major triad are the 1,3,5 how can I,IV,V have anything to do with it?
Why not just figure out the chords of D Mixolydian? It seems to look at D Ionian and find the difference is a longer step method.
D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
Dmaj
Emin
F#dim
Gmaj
Amin
Bmin
Cmaj
Correct?
Those are your D Mixolydian chords. Why look at D Ionian and D Mixolydian
D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
D Ionian = D E F# G A B C#
to see that the difference is the C# then look for chords in D Ionian that have a C instead of C# so you can sound Mixolydian?
Do you see what I am asking?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 04:25 PM
The I, IV and V refer to the postion that the notes in the scale fall on. Here is my assumption Jer:
At the I, IV and V postion there is ALWAYS a major triad and at the ii, iii and vi position there is ALWAYS a minor triad.
Do this. You know that D maj is spelled D-F#-A right?
Go to the I column and find D the look two spaces to the right guess what note it there? F#
Go to the IV column and find D then look two spaces to the right guess what? F# again
Go to the V column and find D then look two spaces to the right...TA DA...F# again.
That means in the major scale that whatever note fall in the I, IV or V postion, if you build a triad using that note as the root then it will ALWAYS be a major triad.
Same thing is true of the ii, iii and vi position
Dmin=D-F-A
Go to the ii column and find D, two spaces to the right and you have F.
Go to the iii column and find D, two spaces to the right you have F again.
Go to the vi column and find D, two spaces to the right.....F!!!
So in the major scale, if you build a triad using whatever note occurs at the ii, iii or vi position as the root, it will ALWAYS be minor.
So using the Chart....Whatever note falls on the I, IV or V position is the root of a major triad in that scale and whatever note falls on the ii, iii, or vi position is the root of a minor triad. Test the chart Jer and see if it isn't true.
Spell out E major and E minor. See if every time E is in the I, IV or V position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G#, and when is in the ii, iii or vi position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G. Test it.
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 04:46 PM
I see.
You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 05:02 PM
You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only.
YES!!!
If you spell out A major you have this A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G# OR THIS:
I=A
ii=B
iii=C#
IV=D
V=E
vi=F#
vii/dim=G#
NOW...if I build a triad starting from the IV or D then 1=root=D....3=the third, in this case major third=F#, and 5=fifth=A. The note that determines if a triad is major or minor is the 3rd. Get it now?
Sorry for confusing you.
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 05:55 PM
D Mixolydian = D E F# G A B C
D Ionian = D E F# G A B C#
to see that the difference is the C# then look for chords in D Ionian that have a C instead of C# so you can sound Mixolydian?
Do you see what I am asking?
Jer,
Using your chart tell me the triads found in both D Ionian and D mixolydian. Then I want to ask you some questions. I know you have company this weekend so we can continue this when you have more time. But think about this.
If you are soloing over this Progression D-G-Em-G, how do you know if it is D Mixolydian or D Ionian? You know it isn't D lydian because D lydian contains E major and not E minor. Both D Mixoydian and D Ionian contain those 3 chords used in that progression. If you are making a CONSCIOUS decision that you want a progression to SOUND MIXOLYDIAN AS OPPOSED TO IONIAN then how do I do that? The answer is to figure out what the difference between D Mixolydian and D Ionian is. The answer is the difference is that D Ionian has a C# and D mixolydian has a C. That one note can appear in 3 different triads as either the root, third or fifth. That means that D Ionian has different chords associated with it then D Mixolydian. If i want to sound Mixolydian and not Ionian I need to use some chords in my progression that are found in D Mixolydian and not D Ionian. Do you get that?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 07:29 PM
Jer,
I'm gonna give you one more thing to think about. Let's look at the chord progression we are gonna use in our MTP collab this month. D-D-E-E
Now lets look at it measure by measure and see what we could use to solo over it.
For the first two measures we have a D major chord.
What scales contain within it a D-F#-A AKA a D major triad? D Ionian, D Lydian and D Mixolydian.
Check your chart to confirm this!
So for the first two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good for the most part.
Now lets look at the next two measures where we are soloing over E major.
What scales contain within it an E-G#-B AKA an E Major triad? E Ionian, E Lydian and E Mixolydian.
So for these two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good as well.
This is what fusion guys do, analyze every chord all by itself.
But....If you ask yourself... what if I only want to use one scale so I don't have to worry about changing scales every time the chord changes. Well if you analyze everything by writing it out OR....you just look at my chart ..You will find that TWO of those 6 scales contain both D-F#-A (D major triad) and E-G#-B (E major triad).
Those two scales are D Lydian and E Mixolydian....Now look at your chart and guess what.....D Lydian and E Mixolydian contain THE EXACT SAME NOTES.
So technically, You could say our progression is either D lydian or E mixolydian...6 of one or half a dozen of the other.
But for our purposes we are gonna call it D lydian.
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 08:23 PM
your last post seems to be duplicated inside itself.
I understand what you are saying but I dont think you are getting what I am asking.
What is your skype callsign?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 08:40 PM
I understand what you are saying but I dont think you are getting what I am asking.
What is your skype callsign?
Tell me again what you are asking?
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 08:52 PM
if you want chords for D mixolydian why not just start there?
Why look for a comparison scale, (1)
then get those chords (2)
and look for ones that have the D mixolydian notes in them. (3)
I dont see the need for 3 steps.
If you want to sound mixolydian why not just get the chords from the actual scale?
Posted by: lcsdds Feb 28 2009, 09:00 PM
Why look for a comparison scale, (1)
then get those chords (2)
and look for ones that have the D mixolydian notes in them. (3)
I dont see the need for 3 steps.
If you want to sound mixolydian why not just get the chords from the actual scale?
Alright I get what you are asking.
I want you to give me an example of a possible D Mixolydian chord progression to solo over. Then we'll analyze it.
You are correct though Jer. When I want to get say a D Lydian chord progression I know which chords to use without doing the three steps. I am trying to show you guys how I cam to that conclusion though. Once you know why then you don't have to go through all the steps. You will just know.
Posted by: opeth.db Feb 28 2009, 10:11 PM
Yea. Calm down tiger. Not everyone is smart like you.
Wheres my milkbone at?
I want you to give me an example of a possible D Mixolydian chord progression to solo over. Then we'll analyze it.
You are correct though Jer. When I want to get say a D Lydian chord progression I know which chords to use without doing the three steps. I am trying to show you guys how I cam to that conclusion though. Once you know why then you don't have to go through all the steps. You will just know.
Posted by: jer Feb 28 2009, 11:59 PM
I don't follow why the steps are necessary at all.
Lets use Ionian.
Say you want to do a progression in D Ionian. Do you use a comparison scale? No. You just take the notes and stack the thirds to get the chords.
Why not do the same with any other mode?
This is what sucks about printing stuff. I could explain in 30 sec what I am saying.....
Simple - if you want a chord progression in B Dorian you need the chords of B Dorian. Thats all you need.
Using the chart, here is B Dorian. B C# D E F# G# A
take your Maj, Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim order and bump it over 1 since we are starting on the 2nd mode (Dorian)
Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim, Maj
Viola.
Bmin
C#min
Dmaj
Emaj
F#min
G#dim
Amaj
No comparison scale needed. To me this is one step. I want a progression in B Dorian, there are the chords.
Dmaj
Emin
F#dim
Gmaj
Amin
Bmin
Cmaj
there are the D mixolydian chords.
Who are you talking to?
Hey Dan, what do you call a Dr that flunks out of med school?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 12:09 AM
Lets use Ionian.
Say you want to do a progression in D Ionian. Do you use a comparison scale? No. You just take the notes and stack the thirds to get the chords.
Why not do the same with any other mode?
This is what sucks about printing stuff. I could explain in 30 sec what I am saying.....
Simple - if you want a chord progression in B Dorian you need the chords of B Dorian. Thats all you need.
Using the chart, here is B Dorian. B C# D E F# G# A
take your Maj, Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim order and bump it over 1 since we are starting on the 2nd mode (Dorian)
Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim, Maj
Viola.
Bmin
C#min
Dmaj
Emaj
F#min
G#dim
Amaj
No comparison scale needed. To me this is one step. I want a progression in B Dorian, there are the chords.
Dmaj
Emin
F#dim
Gmaj
Amin
Bmin
Cmaj
there are the D mixolydian chords.
First of all the hungry dog is outside.....I'll need to go to Wal-Mart to get some milkbones though.
Alrght here is the deal.
If I said....Alright guys we are gonna work in the D Lydian mode this month.
The chord prgression we are gonna solo over is D-E-D C#min.
I want your takes in 3 weeks.
After we did the solos I would ask you guys what you thought of our Lydian collab and Jer would say:
'Dude....Lydian mode ROCKS \m/\m/
It has this dreamy kinda vibe goin on,, kinda like Satch's FIABD, why is that'I would then say "It sounds kinda dreamy because of the raised 4th"....to which Jer would respond "what the !@#$ is a raised fourth."
To which I would the respond with a long winded explanation that sounds reall similar to the post in my main thread
My Skype call sign is "montestevens".
I am trying to take you guys through the process of why we focus on certain chords when writing a modal progression. If I just said use this chord or that chord, I know the first question out of you guys mouth would be...WHY SHOULD I USE THAT CHORD!!
I gotta run to Wal-Mart!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 12:11 AM
I got your raised 4th RIGHT HERE!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! I know what a raised 4th is.
I know what you are trying to do. I'm just not following the whole comparison scale thing. Seems like extra steps.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 12:32 AM
I know what you are trying to do. I'm just not following the whole comparison scale thing. Seems like extra steps.
All the scale comparison does is show you why Lydian sounds Lydian and not Ionian. Ionian is the "Standard" for a major sound. Lydian is a variation of the Ionian. It sounds Major but not in the same way Ionian sounds major. The reason for this is the raised 4th...which you obviously know what it it is!!
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 01:30 AM
\m/ \m/
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 03:19 AM
That's and old one Jer!!...I'm sure you can do better than that!!:lol:
What is the difference between a dentist and God? God doesn't think he is a dentist!!
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 1 2009, 04:21 AM
What is the difference between a dentist and God? God doesn't think he is a dentist!!
LMAO!
And I was taliking to Jer, tiger.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 11:45 AM
Jer,
What up!! \m/\m/
So I was jamming on the six stringer last night and decided to write a song for my hardcore death metal band that I am in "The Tooth Fairies".
I started to come up with a chord progression in the key of "G Dorian". Here is my chord progressions so far:
Gm....
I'm stuck though. I know what my options for chords are, but I want to MAKE SURE that after the show I don't have to kick the groupies out of my dressing room for pissing me off by telling me how much they loved "that solo thingy you did on guitar in the key of G Aeolian". I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS
So I figured you might be able to help me out and reccomend me some possible chords that I might be able to use in my progression so those groupies KNOW FOR SURE that my facemelting guitar solo was in the key of G Dorian and NOT G Aeolian.
Also, now that the word is out that I flunked out of Med School and I don't have to pretend to be smart anymore, could you briefly explain why these chords you are reccomending to me as options for my chord progression are gonna make my tune sound more Dorian than Aeolian. Dumb it down for me dude!!! I don't really understand any of that raised fourth crap so explain it in terms that a Med School flunkee can understand.
Thanks dude, I knew you would help me save the groupies the embarrassment of being banished from my dressing room.!!
\m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 02:36 PM
OR......
We could just fire up the gas and get it on with the groupies.
Do we really need all this theory crap when we have huge tanks of NO2 at our disposal?
Alrighty, lets whip out the old chart here.
G Dorian = G A Bb C D E F
G Aeolian = G A Bb C D Eb F
We're gonna want to be hitting that E. Since Aeolian has the Eb. Now what that will do to the ladies we'll just have to wait and see. But hey, there are always more groupies. So if these get mad and leave, its no loss really.
Our normal chords for G Dorian are:
Gdim
Amaj
Bbmin
Cmin
Dmaj
Emaj
Fmin (maybe something here where we add the E to the chord?)
I bolded the ones containing the E. Also, what about adding E to the Fmin chord?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 02:56 PM
We could just fire up the gas and get it on with the groupies.
Do we really need all this theory crap when we have huge tanks of NO2 at our disposal?
Alrighty, lets whip out the old chart here.
G Dorian = G A Bb C D E F
G Aeolian = G A Bb C D Eb F
We're gonna want to be hitting that E. Since Aeolian has the Eb. Now what that will do to the ladies we'll just have to wait and see. But hey, there are always more groupies. So if these get mad and leave, its no loss really.
Our normal chords for G Dorian are:
Gdim
Amaj
Bbmin
Cmin
Dmaj
Emaj
Fmin (maybe something here where we add the E to the chord?)
I bolded the ones containing the E. Also, what about adding E to the Fmin chord?
HAHAHA!!!!
You think I'm Mr Smartypants? Boy do I have you fooled!!!!!
You are correct in focusing on the E Jer but check your chart again for the triads found in G Dorian, remember that on the chart the I, IV and V are always Major and the ii, iii and vi are always minor and the vii is always diminished.
Correct this error with the triads found in G Dorian and "The Tooth Fairies" groupies the world over will be in your debt!!
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 03:19 PM
Oops. I knew that, I moved it the wrong way, didnt use the chart.... I knew what I meant to do though.
Gmin
Amin
Bbmaj
Cmaj
Dmin
Edim
Fmaj
Ladies... Come with me.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 05:06 PM
\m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 09:49 PM
What a chump... One note is ALL you need! (language alert)
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 09:54 PM
I Love Jack Black, he is so metal!!! \m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 1 2009, 10:54 PM
Ok, I'm not smart enough to figure this out.
I see 3 sets of Amaj triad shapes on page 1 of the guitar pro file. And honestly I dont really understand what I am looking at. I understand that I can slide them up 5 frets to get to Dmaj.
A major triad is the 1-3-5 of the scale. So that'd be D, F#, A
So yeah, look at that first Amaj triad. It becomes.
----5----
----7----
----7----
---------
---------
---------
So???? Here is where I get lost. What do I do with this piece of knowledge?
Here's the A Ionian box that shares some of those....
------7---9-10--
------7---9-10--
----6-7---9-10--
----6-7---9-10--
--5---7---9-10--
--5---7---9-10--
So you are saying we could solo in that box and target
----5----
----7----
----7----
---------
---------
---------
As our landing notes?
We'd need to use something different for that A on the high E string. Since its not really accessible to us though right?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 1 2009, 11:23 PM
I'll get to your question in a bit.
Check out this thread:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=25229&pid=347187&st=0&#entry347187
I see 3 sets of Amaj triad shapes on page 1 of the guitar pro file. And honestly I dont really understand what I am looking at. I understand that I can slide them up 5 frets to get to Dmaj.
A major triad is the 1-3-5 of the scale. So that'd be D, F#, A
So yeah, look at that first Amaj triad. It becomes.
----5----
----7----
----7----
---------
---------
---------
So???? Here is where I get lost. What do I do with this piece of knowledge?
Here's the A Ionian box that shares some of those....
------7---9-10--
------7---9-10--
----6-7---9-10--
----6-7---9-10--
--5---7---9-10--
--5---7---9-10--
So you are saying we could solo in that box and target
----5----
----7----
----7----
---------
---------
---------
As our landing notes?
We'd need to use something different for that A on the high E string. Since its not really accessible to us though right?
Jer check out my picture. The first bar is the triads played in 3 string groupings. The second bar is how a sweep arpeggio would be played. Do you see that those bars are the exact same notes just one is played as chords and the other as an arpeggio or broken chord? The second is your target notes. This example is for A major, you know how to find D and E major already.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 12:03 AM
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...mp;#entry347187
Will do.
Right, ok so what I was saying is true. You used the 2nd position triads, I used the 1st.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 12:09 AM
Right, ok so what I was saying is true. You used the 2nd position triads, I used the 1st.
Right on Dude!! The different positions just allow you to cover the whole neck. Just think of these as scale with 3 positions!! Get it?
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 12:22 AM
yup.
So are we all caught up on this thread then?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 12:32 AM
So are we all caught up on this thread then?
Yup. Now it's time to get to work on "Electric Eye". Let me know when you have the first two licks memorized and know your top clean speed for both. Then I will learn them and we'll work on getting them up to tempo. \m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 02:31 AM
will do.
Havent had much time this weekend. Band practice tomorrow....
I have lick one memorized already so its just lick 2 to memorize.
Hopefully Tuesday.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 05:04 PM
question. Off topic.
This chord.
-------
-------
---5---
---5---
---3---
-------
Is a C5. Its not really a chord since we only have 2 notes. The C and the G.
What is it when you add this?
-------
-------
---5---
---5---
---3---
---3---
Its still only 2 notes. But we've changed the bass. (low note)
Is it still called C5?
The tone of it changes a lot, almost has a minor tone to it......
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 05:47 PM
This chord.
-------
-------
---5---
---5---
---3---
-------
Is a C5. Its not really a chord since we only have 2 notes. The C and the G.
What is it when you add this?
-------
-------
---5---
---5---
---3---
---3---
Its still only 2 notes. But we've changed the bass. (low note)
Is it still called C5?
The tone of it changes a lot, almost has a minor tone to it......
Think of it as a C5 with a G bass. I think they call them slash chords. Very cool sound!!!
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 06:13 PM
Hi Jer,
I remember you saying in your intro that you were in a progressive metal band!! Me too...Remember..."Tooth Fairies"
You said coming up with songs was a challenge. I want to give you some food for thought on how you can try some different stuff using the triads you are learning.
Give me an example of a progression you are working on and the Key it is in and we'll start some dialogue on some things you might try to spice up your riffing. \m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 06:20 PM
Will do.
I don't write anything for the current band. Yet. Someday....
I want to write real interesting stuff. But I always end up with some basic greasy rock powerchord thing that bores me senseless....
I'll email you the latest one.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 06:30 PM
I don't write anything for the current band. Yet. Someday....
I want to write real interesting stuff. But I always end up with some basic greasy rock powerchord thing that bores me senseless....
I'll email you the latest one.
I'll check it out. Do you know the progression? Jeremy listen to some EVH 'Dance the night away", "5150", "the dream is over", etc. All that stuff is just EVH riffing on triads, mostly on the D, G and B string shapes. You can get some cool stuff going when you play these with distortion and arpegiate them while muting them etc.
Pick a powerchord progression you have been fiddling with and let me know what it is. Or better yet, come up with a new progression in the Key or A major or any of the related modes, B dorian, D Lydian etc. and lets start working on some riffs just using triads combined with the box shapes for the diatonic and pentatonic scales. Once you see how this works you have all kinds of ideas.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 06:51 PM
lets use the one I emailed. The intro is in some form of C. Not real sure how to determine key honestly. Its a Cmaj Cmin thing if I'm thinking correctly...
Also, I'm getting confused on what our assignments are.
1. 2 licks in the kaz-box goodness thread. Due by the end of the month.
2. my electric eye licks. Ongoing.
3. ________ Seems that there was something else.....
4. You asked about 2 things I wanted to improve, there will be exercises/lessons based on these yes?
5. Working on my riff I submitted. Making it "more awesome"
I'm confused.... There is content all over the place here, its hard to keep it all straight.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 07:35 PM
Also, I'm getting confused on what our assignments are.
1. 2 licks in the kaz-box goodness thread. Due by the end of the month.
2. my electric eye licks. Ongoing.
3. ________ Seems that there was something else.....
4. You asked about 2 things I wanted to improve, there will be exercises/lessons based on these yes?
5. Working on my riff I submitted. Making it "more awesome"
I'm confused.... There is content all over the place here, its hard to keep it all straight.
You are right. I'll post on the main board so everybody can keep it straigh!!
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 07:41 PM
whats #3?
Am I missing one?
Ahhhhh the D Lydian collab.
Got it.
Jer's updated list.
1. 2 licks in the kaz-box goodness thread. Due by the end of the month.
2. D Lydian constructed solo. Due by the end of the month.
3. my electric eye licks. (ongoing)
4. You asked about 2 things I wanted to improve, there will be exercises/lessons based on these, yes? (ongoing)
5. Working on my riff I submitted. Making it "more awesome" (ongoing)
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 08:11 PM
Correction
Diatonic Boxes-Know the Ioninan, Dorian and Phrygian positions
Pentatonic boxes-Know positions 1, 2 and 5. I know this is out of order but I'll show you why later.
Kaz-Box licks-2 Monthly Kaz-Box licks with the parameters set in the "Kaz-Box" thread.
Monthly Collab-"D Lydian this month".
For this:
Take Ionian for example. I'm not clear on what exactly you are asking. These are scale shapes right? Are you wanting the entire Ionian scale over the entire fretboard? Or just 1 position starting on the 6th string root?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 08:18 PM
For this:
Take Ionian for example. I'm not clear on what exactly you are asking. These are scale shapes right? Are you wanting the entire Ionian scale over the entire fretboard? Or just 1 position starting on the 6th string root?
Just the first 3 boxes from the tab. I labeled all 7 positions. Obviously the names correspond with the starting note on the low E. Ionian starts from A, Dorian starts from B etc,. Just the first 3 box shapes for now.
Jer make sure you check out the general discussion thread, we are talking about pentatonics.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 08:28 PM
I cant view the GP files here at work, is this what you are talking about? (fingering on the 3rd one may be off, I'll go off the GP file if its different.)
forget that D on the 10th fret, E string....
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 08:41 PM
forget that D on the 10th fret, E string....
\m/\m/
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 2 2009, 08:53 PM
The middle one is wrong...
SHould be..
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 08:57 PM
Nice catch Dan.
You passed the test.
Cool. I've got Ionian down to memory already. I'll get the others down here shortly.
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 2 2009, 08:59 PM
We will shred!
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 09:03 PM
For this, the 3 positions are the string groupings correct? Not inversions or anything yet, right?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 09:25 PM
All the inversions are there. If you take one of the positions and play the triad on the G-B-E strings then you drop the note on the High E and play it on the D instead to where you triad is now played on the D-G-B strings. So now you are playing an inversion. Same three notes just a different order.
If I played an A maj triad---A-C#-E....with the A on the G string...C# on the B string....E on the E string. That is the root position for that string grouping because the root is on the lowest string. Now staying on those 3 strings...GBE....If I slide up the neck and now I have the C# on the G string....E on the B string .....and A on the E string.. I have just played what is called the first inversion. You could do the same thing staying in the box and just shifting string groupings so I would play a triad on these string groups.. GBE...DGB..ADG...EAD. That is all inversions are. Just changing which note is played where in the string grouping.. Get it???
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 09:43 PM
I get it, I'm just not sure what you mean by:
Arent there a LOT more than 3? Which 3?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 09:52 PM
Arent there a LOT more than 3? Which 3?
If you learn the A shapes and the C# minor shapes then you know ALL you Major and Minor shapes. Just a matter of sliding them up and down the neck to find which one you want. Think of the three boxes as a scale. For A major...if you start on the low E and find A (5th fret) there is a box or triad shape starting from there. So there would be and A on the E string.....C# on the A string...E on the D string....back to A on the G string....C# again on the B string.... and E again on the high E. Now shift up to C# on the low E and do it again....Same thing from E on the low E. So three positions or boxes, one starting from each note in the triad. These can be played as chords or arpeggios. Lots of cool stuff to do with triads!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 09:56 PM
wouldnt there be 4 shapes though?
1 for strings 6,5,4
1 for strings 5,4,3
1 for strings 4,3,2
1 for strings 3,2,1
Or do we only count 3 since the 1st 2 are the same?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 10:01 PM
1 for strings 6,5,4
1 for strings 5,4,3
1 for strings 4,3,2
1 for strings 3,2,1
Or do we only count 3 since the 1st 2 are the same?
Four when going vertically up the neck and 3 when going horizontally. Just like you can play a scale all on one string ala Yngwie, you can play triads like you listed them or stay on the same string set and slide them up. With the four like you listed it though you will get a repeat of the order but it will be in an octave higher or lower.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 10:07 PM
yeah, I didnt follow that.
if we are playing a triad/chord, we are playing 3 notes simultaneously.
There are 6 strings.
So there are 4 possibilities for playing 3 strings at once.
strings 6,5,4
strings 5,4,3
strings 4,3,2
strings 3,2,1
So isnt that 4 possible triads for any given key?
In each position?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 10:16 PM
if we are playing a triad/chord, we are playing 3 notes simultaneously.
There are 6 strings.
So there are 4 possibilities for playing 3 strings at once.
strings 6,5,4
strings 5,4,3
strings 4,3,2
strings 3,2,1
So isnt that 4 possible triads for any given key?
In each position?
That is right Jer!! But what I was saying was that you can also just play the triads found on treble strings in the first box, then slide up to the shape on the treble strings in the 2nd box and then slide up to the shape on the treble strings in the 3rd box. So moving horizontally between the three boxes BUT staying on the same string grouping there are 3 shapes. If you just stay in the box like you are saying and move vertcally IN THE SAME BOX then there are 4 possiblities like you said.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 10:21 PM
Right, you can slide up and down the neck, holding the same shape. I get that of course.
So what does this mean?
Major triads, minor triads, I understand that.
Isn't position where you are on the neck? What do you mean by "3 positions?"
Dont we have like 22 or 24 positions?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 10:44 PM
Jer,
Check out the picture of the tab you are working from. Those are the Major shapes. In this case A major.
Now if you play them measu by measure we are moving vertically and staying in the box. But if I stay on the same string grouping and slide up the neck I am changing the shape of the triad but not the triad itself, It is still A major just a different order of the notes or and inversion. There are 3 positions playing it this way. Does this help. When I say different positions I am meaning that we are staying with the same triad, all A major or all D major. Same thing applies to the Minor shapes.
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 10:53 PM
So we are memorizing all 12 Amaj triads on the 1st half of the neck?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 11:01 PM
\m/\m/ I think you already know the first two boxes from your video last week. Doesn't have to be done this week, just this month. \m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 2 2009, 11:11 PM
Sure.
I'm just making sure I understand.
12 triads. Got it.
Well, 24 really I guess, with the minor ones too.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 11:25 PM
I'm just making sure I understand.
12 triads. Got it.
Well, 24 really I guess, with the minor ones too.
True but if you compare A major to A Minor there is only 1 note difference. But shape wise you are right 24 shapes. The shapes on 6,5,4 and 5,4,3 are Identical though because those strings are tuned in fourths. The B-string throws off the symmetry.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 2 2009, 11:59 PM
Check out your number of views....\m/\m/
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 12:47 AM
Alright Jer,
Just wanted to get on the same page. So you are responsible for the following this week/month.
Group assignments as spelled out in the main thread.
First 2 "Electric Eye licks"
These should only take you 10 minutes or so a day when you get them memorize. All the licks will be around 30 minutes once you get them memorized.
If you have jam time try to come up with some riffage using the triads and scales we are working on. You'll love it!!
I'm thinking this will be enough right now. The excercises we were talking about are just gonna be the "Electric Eye" licks, they accomplish the same thing as something I could make up but they allow you to play a killer solo when you are done.
Work this for awhile and then if you feel like you need more...you know where to find me.
\m/\m/
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 05:01 AM
Jer,
I am gonna have Dan start Muris's Lydian Phrasing serial. Think you'd be up to learning it with him? I don't want to overwhelm you, and if it was between that and the priest solo I think your playing would benefit more from the lydian serial...Plus you don't need red leather pants for it, although that last lick in the Lydian advanced lessons requires you to do the splits.
Just an idea I thought might be cool... but if you want to stick to what you are doing already let me know.
\m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 3 2009, 05:38 AM
Either one is fine.
But honestly I feel that there is 3x as much on my plate as I can realistically handle.
Granted its all just started and I've only had about 20 minutes of time to spend on it so far.....
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Mar 3 2009, 05:42 AM
But honestly I feel that there is 3x as much on my plate as I can realistically handle.
Granted its all just started and I've only had about 20 minutes of time to spend on it so far.....
yeah it does seem like alot... but if you write it down it doesnt seem as bad as it does in your head
I just wrote something that put it all together in my thread and i feel alot better about it
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 05:43 AM
But honestly I feel that there is 3x as much on my plate as I can realistically handle.
Granted its all just started and I've only had about 20 minutes of time to spend on it so far.....
Let's do Lydian instead of Priest then. That way you and Dan can help each other. Believe me, when you can play the Lydian serial, the priest solo will look like a joke.
I'll break the Lydian solo up for you. You will work on half one session and half the other session. Should still only be 20 to 25 minutes a night. Thanks I think it will be good to have more than one member in the group working on the same lesson. I'll send you the lydian tab tomorrow broken down into licks like I did on the priest tab.
Posted by: jer Mar 3 2009, 05:46 AM
Cool.
Just remember I cant do every night. Like this week, which is typical, Monday and Thursday are out. (band practice) It'll likely be 2-3 nights a week during the week and an hour or 2 each weekend day. Unless we are going somewhere....
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 06:07 AM
Just remember I cant do every night. Like this week, which is typical, Monday and Thursday are out. (band practice) It'll likely be 2-3 nights a week during the week and an hour or 2 each weekend day. Unless we are going somewhere....
That is plenty Jer, you just need to alternate days and then FOCUS with the timer on accomplishing the routine every night you practice. Just like you were with Can.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 06:32 AM
Jer,
Check out this thread. I gave you a little assignment. Thanks dude!! \m/\m/
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=25268&pid=347965&st=0&#entry347965
Posted by: jer Mar 3 2009, 07:00 PM
Alright, I'm 100% on the Ionian box. This I am sure of.
Next up Dorian.
Posted by: jer Mar 3 2009, 10:47 PM
Hey Monte, this whole section of ours, the (LCSDDS sub board) is pretty busy. We're getting a sizeable amount of traffic I see. Lots of lurkers. Thats cool, hopefully people are learning some stuff reading these posts.
Anyway, I'll get to the point...
Can we get a pool table?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 3 2009, 11:02 PM
Anyway, I'll get to the point...
Can we get a pool table?
You pony up for the pool table...Dan you pony up for the stripper Pole and mirrored walls....I'll bring the nitrous oxide.
Sorry Kaz, you'll have to bring a note from your parents to come......UNLESS.....What is the legal age in the Netherlands? I suppose we could hang out at Kaz's place!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 3 2009, 11:03 PM
Haha!!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 04:27 AM
Pentatonic Shapes 1 2 and 5
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 04:40 AM
Nice Jer!! You are off the hook for the pentatonics for the week!
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 04:48 AM
Ionian and Dorian Shapes
Lydian Serial Beginner Lesson Lick 1
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 05:14 AM
Lydian Serial Beginner Lesson Lick 1
Good Job Jer, Can you play those boxes using legato?
Couldn't get your lydian lick to load, says it's unavailable.
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 01:23 PM
The Lydian lick is ready now. It was still processing when I uploaded it.
Play them with legato? Sure. Like pick the first note on the string and hammer on to the other 2?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 04:32 PM
Play them with legato? Sure. Like pick the first note on the string and hammer on to the other 2?
Yup. Hammer-ons when ascending and pull-offs with descending. Turn this into a five minute warm-up excercise routine and see if you can't work the tempo up to about 120-130 KU's over time.
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 04:34 PM
will do.
Did ya check the Lydian lick?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 06:39 PM
Did ya check the Lydian lick?
I'll check it at lunch. I don't have have youtube at work.
Alright Jer,
So here is kind of like your final exam on all the stuff we have been working on. Let's look at our "D Lydian" chord progression for our collab this month:
D-D-E-E
So take each chord and tell me the following:
Diatonic scale options for soloing.
Pentatonic scale options for soloing.
Triad options for soloing.
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 06:56 PM
your post is doubled. You messing around in the gas again?
So here is kind of like your final exam on all the stuff we have been working on. Let's look at our "D Lydian" chord progression for our collab this month:
D-D-E-E
So take each chord and tell me the following:
Sure can.
D- The Dmaj chord has D, F#, A So we can use D Ionian, B Aeolian (of course you can use E Dorian, F# Phrygian, G Lydian, A Mixolydian, and C# Locrian too, but we haven’t talked about that yet)
E- The Emaj chord has E, G#, B So we can use E Ionian, C# Aeolian (and the other modes based off of the degrees in E Ionian)
D Ionian equates to these pentatonic scales. D pentatonic, G pentatonic, A pentatonic, Bmin pentatonic.
E Ionian equates to these pentatonic scales. E pentatonic, A pentatonic, B pentatonic, C#min pentatonic.
D - Any of the Dmaj or Bmin triads. Also Gmaj and Amaj triads will work too.
E – Any of the Emaj or C#min triads. Also Amaj and Bmaj triads will work too.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 07:12 PM
Technically you are correct here Jer, but just think of all of these as either D Ionian. For our collab though, I want you to stick to D Lydian. Remember that modes mean nothing without chords associated with them. So for D major although you could say you are playing F# phrygian, and technically you would be correct, since you aren't soloing over and F# minor chord it won't sound like F# Phrygian, it will sound like D Lydian, at least in our case.
Same thing holds true for E major.
Good job.
E Ionian equates to these pentatonic scales. E pentatonic, A pentatonic, B pentatonic, C#min pentatonic.
I want your brain to see a D Major chord and think---D major pentatonic, D lydian, D mixolydian and D Ionian.
Don't make it too complicated.
E – Any of the Emaj or C#min triads. Also Amaj and Bmaj triads will work too.
Same thing...I want you to see a D major chord and think:
D major=D-F#-A
If I play a D major triad over it, it will sound like D major.
If I play and F# minor triad over it it will sound like D maj7 because you hear the D major chord and the F# minor chord so you hear D-F#-A-C#=D maj7
If I play an A major triad over it it will sound like D maj9. Same reasoning.
Think of E major the same way.
Don't over think, try and keep it simple for now and in the context of D lydian for our collab. We can get all crazy down the road.
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 07:37 PM
I'm not overthinking it. These are all the things we've been going over these last few days. All those pentatonics and relative minors, etc. They were the correct answers before. If this is the final (per se) then I figured you wanted those answers again.
"When playing over a major chord, you can use any major mode with the same root as that chord." Yeah, thats true. And it gives the modal flavors when you do it. Thats not what we have been doing in the other threads though... We've been more thoroughly analyzing the notes and using the chart to see all of the specific options. It wouldnt occur to me to answer the same question a different way this time. See where I'm coming from here?
D major=D-F#-A
If I play a D major triad over it, it will sound like D major.
If I play and F# minor triad over it it will sound like D maj7 because you hear the D major chord and the F# minor chord so you hear D-F#-A-C#=D maj7
If I play an A major triad over it it will sound like D maj9. Same reasoning.
We barely brushed on that. We talked about breaking down the big 7 and 9 chords into 2 or 3 triads. In a single post though. And we didnt really discuss how/why we'd play them. Just that a bigger chord can be looked at as multiple triads. If we were supposed to understand that I didnt grasp it that way.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 07:55 PM
"When playing over a major chord, you can use any major mode with the same root as that chord." Yeah, thats true. And it gives the modal flavors when you do it. Thats not what we have been doing in the other threads though... We've been more thoroughly analyzing the notes and using the chart to see all of the specific options. It wouldnt occur to me to answer the same question a different way this time. See where I'm coming from here?
We barely brushed on that. We talked about breaking down the big 7 and 9 chords into 2 or 3 triads. In a single post though. And we didnt really discuss how/why we'd play them. Just that a bigger chord can be looked at as multiple triads. If we were supposed to understand that I didnt grasp it that way.
Your reasoning was fine Jer. I am just wanting to kind of prep you for how I want you to think specifically for our collab. I didn't specify that so you did Just fine. Read my post on Triads in the "triad soloing options"
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 07:56 PM
alrighty.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 4 2009, 10:33 PM
Jer your Lydian lick looked good. Just tighten it up a little timing wise and you will be good to go. On to lick 2 now.....I'm really interested to see you take on the tapping and alternate picked runs.
Posted by: jer Mar 4 2009, 10:43 PM
HUAHHHH!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 04:03 AM
what I worked on tonight.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 11:51 AM
Good Job Jer!! You have all the major triads memorized. Now do the same for the Minor shapes. Did you see Dan's little video about pre-fretting? Try it out and it will help your pull-offs. The Kaz-Box would do wonders for your Legato if you committed to doing it for 5-7min per night at a few different tempos. Here is what I want to see on your next video:
A Ionian box played legato phrased in 8th note triplets (3 notes per beat).
For your warm up use the following tempos for 1 min each.
50 ku 1min
60 ku 1min
70 ku 1 min
80 ku 1 min
60 ku 1 min
Do this as your warm up EVERY TIME YOU PRACTICE. Also, run through the Ionian, Dorian and Phrygian boxes for now and use your pinky for the highest note on every string for all those boxes.
Some of those tempos are gonna feel painfully slow but it is going to allow you to really concentrate on pre-fretting the notes when doing pull-offs and get everything smooth.
Use those tempos for now and for your first video I want to see you run the A Ionian box using legato at EVERY TEMPO!!
Just you, your axe and the Kaz-Box!!
Thanks Buddy \m/\m/.
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 01:08 PM
will do. I'll post this Sat.
Tonight is band practice. Tomorrow night the Misses and I are going out. We have a sitter!!!!!
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 01:15 PM
Tonight is band practice. Tomorrow night the Misses and I are going out. We have a sitter!!!!!
Sounds good!!
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 04:53 PM
Jer,
I need you to tell me the notes of E+11 (E augmented 11) and why that is a lydian chord. Hint: Compare it to the Ionian mode. Thanks.
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 05:04 PM
E
also known as Emaj = E G# B
The 11 of that would be A. Augmenting that would make it A#
So E 11+ is E, G#, B, A#
Why is it a Lydian chord? Well, looking at the chart for Lydian I see there is no E Lydian. That doesnt make sense to me.... Looking elsewhere I discover that E Lydian = E F# G# A# B C# D#
All of the notes of that chord are in the E Lydian scale. And compared to E Ionian its got the A# instead of the A.
So its Lydian-ness is supplied by that A#. So when I play that chord I would pick the A# just a bit harder and I'd kick my leg into theair a' la Yngwie to enphasize it.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 05:16 PM
also known as Emaj = E G# B
The 11 of that would be A. Augmenting that would make it A#
So E 11+ is E, G#, B, A#
Why is it a Lydian chord? Well, looking at the chart for Lydian I see there is no E Lydian. That doesnt make sense to me.... Looking elsewhere I discover that E Lydian = E F# G# A# B C# D#
All of the notes of that chord are in the E Lydian scale. And compared to E Ionian its got the A# instead of the A.
So its Lydian-ness is supplied by that A#. So when I play that chord I would pick the A# just a bit harder and I'd kick my leg into theair a' la Yngwie to enphasize it.
I love Yngwie!!! Good Job Jer!! Now.... Armed with that knowledge, Check out the picture of Lick 5 from the Lydian Beginner tab.
Analyze the notes and tell me what Ninja Muris is doing there....because it sounds pretty Damn Cool!!!
When you figure it out, go post it in the Lydian Serial thread.
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 05:58 PM
Jedi master Muris is exhibiting typical coolness here.
Over the E chord (E, G# 
he is getting jiggy with these triplet licks. (1st half of bar 1)
E, A#, G# & D#, A#, G# Both licks have the A# so that should sound Lydian over the backing chord. And the 2nd lick has the D#, which is also in E Lydian. The D# is also the VII in the Emaj chord. So adding that in there fits nicely.
Then over the E11+ chord he is continuing the D#, A#, G# lick. The E 11+ chord is E, G#, B, A#. Again, the D# in the lick is the VII in the Emaj chord. So it fits well.
Then he drops to C#, A#, G# to finish off the bar. Still over the E11+ chord. That C# isn’t in the chord itself, but it is in the E Lydian scale.
In bar 2 we go back to the lick with D# in it. Which we covered above. And then the C# one again, then finally he finishes it by going down to B then E. Both of which are in E Lydian and E Ionian.
So… In a nutshell, he’s using the notes of the chord in the backing. And dancing around the other notes in the scale as well.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 06:15 PM
Over the E chord (E, G#
he is getting jiggy with these triplet licks. (1st half of bar 1)E, A#, G# & D#, A#, G# Both licks have the A# so that should sound Lydian over the backing chord. And the 2nd lick has the D#, which is also in E Lydian. The D# is also the VII in the Emaj chord. So adding that in there fits nicely.
Then over the E11+ chord he is continuing the D#, A#, G# lick. The E 11+ chord is E, G#, B, A#. Again, the D# in the lick is the VII in the Emaj chord. So it fits well.
Then he drops to C#, A#, G# to finish off the bar. Still over the E11+ chord. That C# isn’t in the chord itself, but it is in the E Lydian scale.
In bar 2 we go back to the lick with D# in it. Which we covered above. And then the C# one again, then finally he finishes it by going down to B then E. Both of which are in E Lydian and E Ionian.
So… In a nutshell, he’s using the notes of the chord in the backing. And dancing around the other notes in the scale as well.
Are you telling me that Muris is basing his lick on the Chord he is soloing over?......Hmmmm...I wonder if he learned that from me, OR......If I learned that from HIM!!!
Good Job Jer!! \m/\m/....Now apply it to your own playing.
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 06:23 PM
Yeah, basing your lead on the backing chords is how ya do it!
Look at the backing and use the notes that are being played by the rhythm guitarist. (or keyboardist)
Land and hang on the triad notes for best resolving effect.
If the backing chord is major, try spicing it up a bit with a major mode. If its minor, try a minor mode for a different twist.
Try other notes that would be in the extended version of the backing chord.
There is more than one way to melt a face!!!!!!
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 06:25 PM
Look at the backing and use the notes that are being played by the rhythm guitarist. (or keyboardist)
Land and hang on the triad notes for best resolving effect.
If the backing chord is major, try spicing it up a bit with a major mode. If its minor, try a minor mode for a different twist.
Try other notes that would be in the extended version of the backing chord.
There is more than one way to melt a face!!!!!!
I like your thinking Jer......Hmmmm....I wonder if it might be handy to know some major and minor triad shapes to carry out your mission of SONIC AWESOMENESS!!! \m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 5 2009, 06:28 PM
knowing the shapes or memorizing every location of those 3 notes.
memorizing the shapes is probably an easier task.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 5 2009, 11:36 PM
Jer,
I want you to try and bust out the Lydian beginner lesson ASAP. Be cool if you could have a post of the whole thing by next weekend. After you and Dan post a full take I'm gonna throw you another curveball with the lesson....You know you love it!!! Dan says he has it up to ful tempo already.
\m/\m/
Posted by: jer Mar 6 2009, 12:59 AM
He does, does he?
Then where's the video?
SHOW ME THE VIDEO!!!!!!
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 6 2009, 03:18 PM
Then where's the video?
SHOW ME THE VIDEO!!!!!!
Thats right!
Posted by: jer Mar 6 2009, 03:51 PM
thats right that there is NO VIDEO!
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 6 2009, 05:15 PM
Im working on it. Trying to get used to the suck button.
Posted by: jer Mar 6 2009, 05:43 PM
it gets me most every time too.
Posted by: jer Mar 7 2009, 02:51 PM
Man, the lydian serial Lick 4 is killing me.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 7 2009, 03:03 PM
This one? You have two options: Play it legato if you think you can do better that way or whip out the Kaz-box. Find your top clean speed and then set the metronome for 30 bpm less and then play the lick at 5 or 6 different tempos for a minute each.
Let's say you play it fine until about 60 bpm. Subtract 30 bpm and do this.
30 bpm 1 min
40 bpm 1 min
50 bpm 1 min
60 bpm 1 min
70 bpm 1 min
50 bpm 1 min
Do this daily and increase 5-10 bpm every week until you are up to tempo. Easy as can be.
Now you have and AP lick in your practice routine!! When you get it up to tempo you have a cool solo to use it in as well.
Get to work!!
Posted by: jer Mar 7 2009, 05:51 PM
yep, thats the one.
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Mar 7 2009, 05:58 PM
hey jer,
are you good at using the kazbox?
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Mar 7 2009, 09:40 PM
Jer I couldn't play it at full speed also. Firstly I lowered the tempo to 75bpm and played it along in guitar pro. Increasing it to 80bpm took my first practice day. Second day my "brain learned" it a bit, so I could rise the tempo to full speed, but made some mistakes. So I set the metronome to 130bpm and started killing my ears with what I could dish out:D After lowering it time and time by 5bpm, playing it back at 95bpm was quite easy:)
Posted by: jer Mar 7 2009, 11:25 PM
It takes me a while with the kazbox. I start out absolutely atrocious. But then it slowly starts to click and I can play with it.
Posted by: jer Mar 8 2009, 01:40 PM
40 bpm 1 min
50 bpm 1 min
60 bpm 1 min
70 bpm 1 min
50 bpm 1 min
My metronome wont go below 40. In this case the lick is at 100bpm, I can play it that fast, just not clean or for very long. So I figured I'd start at 70 and work it up from there.
With really slow speeds, is there any problem with setting the KB to 1 click per note? Like instead of 50, set it to 200 if you are doing 16th notes?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 8 2009, 02:06 PM
With really slow speeds, is there any problem with setting the KB to 1 click per note? Like instead of 50, set it to 200 if you are doing 16th notes?
16th@30bpm=8th@60bpm
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 8 2009, 03:11 PM
With really slow speeds, is there any problem with setting the KB to 1 click per note? Like instead of 50, set it to 200 if you are doing 16th notes?
I used to do that but it doesn't teach you how to sub-divide the beat properly.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 8 2009, 04:23 PM
It's true... but before you learn to subdivide the beat you have to get the lick up to tempo. For this lick you goal is going to be 8th notes at 180bpm. Once you get to where you can play the lick at 80 bpm in 8th's then you can start working on playing it in 16ths @40 bpm.
I do this all the time. Muris plays ALOT of 32nd notes. I'll have to practice the lick in 16ths until I can play it at least at 80 bpm. Then I can start working on the 32nd note feel at 40 bpm.
You are right though. But....unless you have the technique to play this lick at tempo already then you have two options.....skip the lick OR.....Practice it in 8ths until you can play it fast enough to practice it in 16ths.
In Muris Phrygian advanced lesson he plays a lick in 32nd note triplets....That's right!!!......TWELVE NOTES PER BEAT. It is a weird 3 note per string pentatonic shape to boot!!! Sometimes Muris really PISSES ME OFF!!!
I have been working on this lick for about 3 months and am now just barely getting to where I can play it in the 40-60 bpm range in it's correct phrasing of 32nd note triplets. GET USED TO DOING THIS!!
Posted by: jer Mar 8 2009, 10:20 PM
Right.
And 50bpm trying to squeeze 4 per click = 200 at 1 per click.
I can always have the kaz-box emphasize the 1 too.
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 9 2009, 05:23 PM
So Jer here is where I think you are at as far as assingments and what I would like to see you working on:
Diatonic and pentatonic boxes and triads:
Should be learning these as you have time. Just use them as warm-up excercises.
Lydian beginner solo:
Would like you to post a take ASAP. Doesn't need to be full speed. I want to see you work on that picking lick for sure. Drop the bpm down to 50 and do the 1 min thing all the way up to 90. Take 5 min a day and do it every day if possible this week and tell me if you don't see a difference.
Kaz-box excercise:
No time frame on this just whenever you get a chance. I know you have limited time.
Lydian collab:
Solo over Muris's backing. Would like to see something on this by the end of the month if possible. Will help you learn your triads and diatonic and pentatonic boxes.
One thing I would really love to see you incorporate into your practice routine is some sort of consistent technique workout. I am composing some etude's over Muris's picking lesson that he is having me work on. I've done one for tapping and I am going to do one for legato and economy picking as well. They are really efficient for working on your technique. Once you memorize them you can play them for like 20 minutes and get a really good workout for that technique. I'm gonna post a take of my tapping etude later this week and you can tell me what you think. I know you have limited time but I would like to see you get some sort of consistent technique workout. Up to you though.
One thing I noticed from watching your videos is you don't really alternate pick consistently. Watch the video. When you go from a lower string to a higher string, most of the time you do a downstroke regardless of which way your pick is already moving. This will hurt your speed and this is where slowing the metronome WAY down will help. At the really slow tempos you can really focus on the motions because you aren't struggling so much trying to play the lick.
Any questions about anything?
Posted by: jer Mar 9 2009, 05:59 PM
No time frame on this just whenever you get a chance. I know you have limited time.
What is this?
We use the kaz box for lots of stuff yes? Is this something specific?
And what about the 2 original licks/guitar pro tab thing?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 9 2009, 06:17 PM
That is what I am talking about.
Posted by: jer Mar 9 2009, 06:25 PM
Ahh ok.
Any reason we cant use them in the main 16bar solo we write?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 9 2009, 06:38 PM
Any reason we cant use them in the main 16bar solo we write?
Nope....but if you do I would like to see you tab it out for me. Not the whole solo....Just the lick.
Posted by: jer Mar 9 2009, 06:40 PM
Should be learning these as you have time. Just use them as warm-up excercises.
Gotcha
Would like you to post a take ASAP. Doesn't need to be full speed. I want to see you work on that picking lick for sure. Drop the bpm down to 50 and do the 1 min thing all the way up to 90. Take 5 min a day and do it every day if possible this week and tell me if you don't see a difference.
Yep.
No time frame on this just whenever you get a chance. I know you have limited time.
Oh, I'll have a couple of sweet licks by the end of the month. No worries.
Solo over Muris's backing. Would like to see something on this by the end of the month if possible. Will help you learn your triads and diatonic and pentatonic boxes.
Yep, a varied original solo coming up! Dunno how good it will be, but I can do it.
This makes sense. Except I don't really know what to focus on. I've never been able to pin down anything in particular I want to work on. "I want to be better at tapping" "I want to be better at bends" "I want to be better at legato" I've never had anything in particular in mind... I just want to be better at all of it. Right now being able to sync my hands and just play above my painfully slow current speed is all I'm focused on. As I dont feel I'll ever be able to play much lead guitar if I cant. Like bar 11 in the beginner Lydian thing. To me that is fast playing. Thats 360 bpm after all! But to most people they wouldnt call that fast. So my focus is on picking and fretting simultaneously at speeds above where I am now.
Oh yeah? Well you're ugly.
kidding of course. Any particular video I should look at?
Yeah, when going from a lower string to a higher string, if I just did a downstroke I'll do a second downstroke. Cuz to me thats less movement than moving my picking hand down and scooping under the next string to come up.
Not true?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 9 2009, 06:50 PM
Except I don't really know what to focus on. I've never been able to pin down anything in particular I want to work on. "I want to be better at tapping" "I want to be better at bends" "I want to be better at legato" I've never had anything in particular in mind... I just want to be better at all of it. Right now being able to sync my hands and just play above my painfully slow current speed is all I'm focused on. As I dont feel I'll ever be able to play much lead guitar if I cant. Like bar 11 in the beginner Lydian thing. To me that is fast playing. Thats 360 bpm after all! But to most people they wouldnt call that fast. So my focus is on picking and fretting simultaneously at speeds above where I am now.
For now since you have limited time lets just use it to perfect this lydian lesson. I want to see you get that picking lick up to snuff so use the Kaz-box like I outlined and see if we can't make some consistent progress. Same with the tapping lick. We'll see how that looks when you post your take. Let's just focus on this lesson for now as far as technique. I think once you see results with the consisten Kaz-box use it will make you hungry for more.
Any particular video I should look at?
The kaz-box video you posted or the Ionian scale video would be fine. You do it in both.
Yeah, when going from a lower string to a higher string, if I just did a downstroke I'll do a second downstroke. Cuz to me thats less movement than moving my picking hand down and scooping under the next string to come up.
Not true?
Is true.....but I think you should do straight alternate on this lick. Just do it for now if you would and we'll get into the "why's" soon. Ok?
Posted by: jer Mar 9 2009, 07:06 PM
yep. can do.
Posted by: jer Mar 11 2009, 06:02 PM
Hey gang,
I've decided to work on some other things in my playing.
Focusing on lead guitar isn't going to get me to my goals.
Our paths may cross down the road, ya never know. Until then I'll be seeing ya out of the boards and in various lessons here at the awesome place we call GMC!
Keep up the good work Monte, When I'm ready to add the lead stuff to my playing I'll be looking for ya. Thanks for letting my try this out with you guys.
(oh, and I'll still be calling my metronome the KAZ BOX!)
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 11 2009, 06:32 PM
Jerky.
You know where to find me bro!
I've decided to work on some other things in my playing.
Focusing on lead guitar isn't going to get me to my goals.
Our paths may cross down the road, ya never know. Until then I'll be seeing ya out of the boards and in various lessons here at the awesome place we call GMC!
Keep up the good work Monte, When I'm ready to add the lead stuff to my playing I'll be looking for ya. Thanks for letting my try this out with you guys.
(oh, and I'll still be calling my metronome the KAZ BOX!)
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 11 2009, 07:15 PM
I've decided to work on some other things in my playing.
Focusing on lead guitar isn't going to get me to my goals.
Our paths may cross down the road, ya never know. Until then I'll be seeing ya out of the boards and in various lessons here at the awesome place we call GMC!
Keep up the good work Monte, When I'm ready to add the lead stuff to my playing I'll be looking for ya. Thanks for letting my try this out with you guys.
(oh, and I'll still be calling my metronome the KAZ BOX!)
Keep working Jer and pop in from time to time and keep us laughing!!!
Posted by: jer Mar 11 2009, 07:36 PM
You know where to find me bro!
Dude..... that avatar... Its exactly how I picture you.
Oh I'd love to lurk around here and drop in on you guys. What else am I going to do at work all day?
Posted by: opeth.db Mar 11 2009, 07:37 PM
Thats my "What the hell is Monte talking about" face/
Oh I'd love to lurk around here and drop in on you guys. What else am I going to do at work all day?
Posted by: lcsdds Mar 11 2009, 09:33 PM
I've seen that expression A LOT!!!!!
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)