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Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 21 2007, 04:44 AM

This goes out to all instructors, lately ive been experimenting with Soloing over a melody....With little success, i can solo over a chord progression just fine, but when i try to do it with a melody, or solo over one, it doesnt come out right, wondering if a instructor would take this request to explain tips/ tricks when doing this in writing, or things i should consider, plus, i think it would make a just plain badass lesson

Much Appreciation to any Instructor(s) who take this up

Posted by: RIP Dime Dec 21 2007, 05:46 PM

+1 this would be great to see!

Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 21 2007, 08:01 PM

Yeah i think it will be awesome, hopefully an instructor will jump to the challenge

Posted by: Iluha Dec 21 2007, 08:31 PM

Do you mean soloing while someone is singing?

Posted by: Dejan Dec 21 2007, 08:35 PM

What do you mean by soloing over a melody?

A solo is a melody itself, so if you have two melodies then it is a counterpoint.

So please can you give an example

Posted by: Joey Dec 21 2007, 08:37 PM

i think he means soloing over a certain riff or main part to the song and making it flow or sound good. like where the other guitar is playing a riff of notes rather than a chord progression. if not then i dont get what he means either lol

the rythm guitar would be playing something slightly similar to a solo

Posted by: Iluha Dec 21 2007, 09:10 PM

Like a guitar duet?

Posted by: Muris Dec 21 2007, 09:22 PM

Yep,need more info 'bout it,idea seems nice tho.
Might be something as Bach,Contrapunktum type of writing,
2 or more independent melodies that create one solid melody.
Or you want sort of jam/improvising type of solo over melody?
Or to play melody and AFTER THAT a solo with segments of the same melody?
Sorry for too many questions tho

Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 21 2007, 10:08 PM

Sorry if i was vague, ill clear things up.

Its basically soloing over a solo i guess, there isnt any chords played, i see it alot in Power And Speed Metal. One guitar is playing usually a certain solo/melody, and the other guitar plays one different than it, most of the time hardly similar at all, but it sounds so good, ill try to find a video that has it in it.... and a better description

Posted by: FretDancer69 Dec 21 2007, 10:09 PM

a Harmonization you mean...? ...

Posted by: Joey Dec 21 2007, 10:16 PM

not necessarily a harmonization the parts are just similar like 1 may be an octave up from the other and a slightly different riff

Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 21 2007, 10:17 PM

Not a harmony, they arent playing the same thing....damnit, i have to find a decent MP3 or video....

Posted by: Iluha Dec 21 2007, 10:29 PM

A duet than, here's a small thing me and a friend of mine wrote(no recording sorry), I think this is what you mean:

Posted by: Dejan Dec 21 2007, 10:35 PM

That is called counterpoint, two or more independent melodies played in the same key

Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 21 2007, 10:36 PM

Thats the word ive been trying to think of, Bingo, thats exactly what im talking about

Posted by: Hisham Dec 21 2007, 11:32 PM

i think i understood whats going in your mind. you want to play a different solo over melody firstable you must know whats key melody going on .then you have to play second or third or fifth or seventh of that scale or to play a small riffs as a back solo track to that melody

Posted by: Dejan Dec 21 2007, 11:38 PM

The counterpoint is a whole science for itself and it requests a good knowledge of theory

Here are the basics for counterpoint

There are 4 possible melodic motions between two melody lines

similar - melodies move in the same direction but in different intervals between them
parallel - melodies move in the same direction and in the same intervals between them
contrary - melodies moving in contrary directions
oblique - one melody moves while the other remains in one note

Then you have much more about species, one note on one, two notes on one, three notes on one, etc.

I hope this may help you a bit, and I'll see if I can make a lesson about the matter

Posted by: David.C.Bond Dec 21 2007, 11:59 PM

A good summary of counterpoint Dejan.
However what The Uncreator is describing is not really counterpoint in its true sense.
Counterpoint is a strict form of composition and as Dejan says, is a science in itself which requires a substantial knowledge of classical theory. The point of counterpoint is that the parts interact on a horizontal basis, lines of music flowing in and out of each other, therefore the lines create the harmony, but there is no chord scheme as such, because a chord scheme suggests verticle harmony which counterpoint is not.
Interestingly, although not suprisingly harmony came from renaissance (and earlier) counterpoint.

Anyway, getting to the point, the kind of textures used in power metal and the like are not true counterpoint as they use a very set chord progression, with the parts interacting vertically. Even if the guitar is playing a melody, the chord scheme will still be there in the bass or keys etc. I would probably describe it as polyphonic improvisation. The key to improvising over a melody is to use your ear! Make sure your hitting notes that are a consonant interval away from the note in the melody, or hitting dissonant notes and resolving to a consonant.

Hope that helps!

Posted by: The Uncreator Dec 22 2007, 12:06 AM

Thanks for all the help guys, think im finally on the right track

Posted by: Dejan Dec 22 2007, 12:15 AM

You're welcome

If you listen to my lesson, little finger workout, you can hear the main melody on guitar, and parallel counterpoint on third interval (some people call it harmonizing), and also there is another counterpoint played by keyboard in background, moving in similar, contrary and oblique ways, and also in various species completely melodically independent to the main melody

and regarding the power metal, I'm a bit weak there

Posted by: Muris Dec 22 2007, 06:40 PM

No worries,got your point

Posted by: The Uncreator Jan 17 2008, 09:00 PM

So I Finally found a great example of what i was talking about.

The solo at around 1:52, there is a pretty fast melody going on behind it, this is what i was talking about, and Gus plays a solo over it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHy-OVlijsQ

By the way the song is amazing

Posted by: RyanS. Jan 17 2008, 09:47 PM

That is a great song!!

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 17 2008, 10:14 PM

Really awesome song, but if you listen, there is still a chord progression going on behind both melodies.

I think what you mean is more along the lines of

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtsD2tBPZgo&feature=related

Last 5 guitar solos.

Posted by: The Uncreator Jan 18 2008, 03:51 AM

Yeah but take the chord progression out and it still sounds awesome

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 18 2008, 05:13 AM

Solos don't have to follow chord progressions...that is only if you want to establish polyphonics. Listen to Paganini Caprices or some Middle Eastern music which is all homophonic (I think that is the word). It might not even be soloing "over" the melody. It could just be 2 melodies going at one time like counterpoint. Most Metallica solos aren't polyphonic either.