Harmonic Minor Scale.

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Harmonic Minor Scale.

Jesse View Member Profile	Jan 1 2009, 06:13 PM
Jan 1 2009, 06:13 PM	GMC:er Posts: 2.348 Joined: 5-July 08 From: Enschede/overijssel/Nederland	I really enjoy neo classical , and im interested in Yngwie and such too! In neo-clas, they use the Harmonic Minor Scale alot! So my question is. What' s the formula for the harmonic Minor Scale? E.X. For Major scale it is 2212221 . Thanks! You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Don't just play it. Feel it!

Disturbed21 View Member Profile	Jan 2 2009, 02:58 AM
Jan 2 2009, 02:58 AM	GMC:er Posts: 274 Joined: 29-May 08 From: Gloucester MA.	QUOTE (Jesse @ Jan 1 2009, 12:13 PM) I really enjoy neo classical , and im interested in Yngwie and such too! In neo-clas, they use the Harmonic Minor Scale alot! So my question is. What' s the formula for the harmonic Minor Scale? E.X. For Major scale it is 2212221 . Thanks! I'm pretty sure it's 2122131 You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Enter The Doom And Gloom If You Dare Below This Message http://www.last.fm/user/Disturbed21 and add if you want...

Rated Htr View Member Profile	Jan 2 2009, 04:35 AM
Jan 2 2009, 04:35 AM	Experienced Rock Star Posts: 2.119 Joined: 15-October 07 From: Leiria, Portugal	https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=8244 You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Currently Practicing Rhythm: Finnish Power Metal III: Nightwish Legato: Ben's Land Of Legato Alternate Picking: Alternate Picking Workout #5 Chords: Chord Melody Technique

Pedja Simovic View Member Profile	Jan 2 2009, 10:46 AM
Jan 2 2009, 10:46 AM	Instructor Posts: 8.109 Joined: 13-September 08 From: Nis, Serbia	Interesting , you guys are using half steps as formula - haven't seen that in a while ! Try like this : 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 (8) These are all the notes in the scale related to Root of the scale. 1 = Root 2 = Major 2nd b3= Minor 3rd 4= Perfect 4th 5= Perfect 5th b6= Minor 6th 7 = Major 7th 8= Octave That should help you for future scales and interval study You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Video Lessons

Emir Hot View Member Profile	Jan 2 2009, 11:00 AM
Jan 2 2009, 11:00 AM	Instructor Posts: 7.201 Joined: 14-July 08 From: London UK	This is a great scale. Its 5th mode is called Phrygian Dominant - no neoclassical solo without this one I also use its 4th mode a lot, it is called Dorian #4. Somebody calls it Hungarian Minor and it sounds very eastern. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my <a href="https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Emir-Hot" target="_blank">Instructor profile</a> www.emirhot.com www.myspace.com/emirhotguitar www.myspace.com/sevdahmetal

wrk View Member Profile	Jan 2 2009, 04:20 PM
Jan 2 2009, 04:20 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 1.027 Joined: 19-June 06 From: Paris/France (..used to be german)	QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jan 2 2009, 11:00 AM) This is a great scale. Its 5th mode is called Phrygian Dominant - no neoclassical solo without this one I also use its 4th mode a lot, it is called Dorian #4. Somebody calls it Hungarian Minor and it sounds very eastern. Hi Emir, I do a lot of "paperwork" lately to understand the different modes of major and minor scales and there differences and i wanted to check back if i understood this above right. Based on the A harmonic minor scale: A, B, C, D, E, F, G# (raised 7 of natural minor) The 5th mode: E, F, G#, A, B, C, D is called Phrygian Dominant, because it is similar to Phrygian mode (r, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7) but has a raised 3rd (major 3rd) instead of minor 3rd. The 4th mode : D, E, F, G#, A, B, C is similar to dorian mode (r, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7) but has a raised 4th instead of a perfect 4th. Is this more or less correct? You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- www.musiclearningtools.net www.youtube.com/AndyVeil

Fsgdjv View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 12:33 PM
Jan 5 2009, 12:33 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.255 Joined: 12-April 07	QUOTE (wrk @ Jan 2 2009, 04:20 PM) Hi Emir, I do a lot of "paperwork" lately to understand the different modes of major and minor scales and there differences and i wanted to check back if i understood this above right. Based on the A harmonic minor scale: A, B, C, D, E, F, G# (raised 7 of natural minor) The 5th mode: E, F, G#, A, B, C, D is called Phrygian Dominant, because it is similar to Phrygian mode (r, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7) but has a raised 3rd (major 3rd) instead of minor 3rd. The 4th mode : D, E, F, G#, A, B, C is similar to dorian mode (r, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7) but has a raised 4th instead of a perfect 4th. Is this more or less correct? I'm not emir, but that is most definetly correct. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Practice Agenda

Pedja Simovic View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 12:39 PM
Jan 5 2009, 12:39 PM	Instructor Posts: 8.109 Joined: 13-September 08 From: Nis, Serbia	Great observation Andy, you are on the right track there You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Video Lessons

berko View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 12:54 PM
Jan 5 2009, 12:54 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.771 Joined: 2-April 08 From: Budapest, Hungary	QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 2 2009, 10:46 AM) Interesting , you guys are using half steps as formula - haven't seen that in a while ! Well, Andrew uses this approach a lot on his theory board - but as 1st approach I think it's quite useful However I got confused a bit by the hungarian minor mode: - according to Emir it's the same as the Dorian #4 (4th mode of the basic harmonic minor), just given a different name - in Ramiro's exotic scale list the exact same name (Hungarian minor) is applied to this scale: C D Eb F# G Ab B (which has 2 other different notes modified) - in my Hungarian language theory book it's defined as a harmonic minor with a raised 4th (#4) So the Dorian #4 has a raised 4th but thats the raised seven of the basic harmonic minor. According to the hungarian theory book: other than the raised seven the Hungarian minor has a raised 4th (again). If we are looking at the A harmonic minor this 4th note in Ramiro's chart would be the D# (enharmonic of Eb), but Ramiro has an extra F# too (so his scale is like a melodic minor with an extra raised 4th). Am I correct when thinking this way? Or is this just another name-confusion when we use different names for different scales according to different approaches (Ramiro did mention this chaotic naming system in his new scale lesson...) So is it correct to name this scale that way and vice versa? At this particular example the issue is about the raised 4th. So according to this, the simple Dorian with a raised 4th as well as the harmonic and the melodic minors with a raised 4th can be considered as Hungarian minors... You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by berko: Jan 5 2009, 12:57 PM -------------------- High speed, low drag Check out my YouTube channel HERE! Here you can find my MYSPACE

wrk View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 01:24 PM
Jan 5 2009, 01:24 PM	Learning Tone Seeker Posts: 1.027 Joined: 19-June 06 From: Paris/France (..used to be german)	Thanks Fsgdjv and Pedja ... good to get confirmation sometimes. @ berko : hm true, thats confusing. I guess that the name "Hungarian minor" is maybe not that clearly defined, but if i get this right, they have in common a raised 4th on a minor scale, means, the step between the minor 3rd and the augmented 4th has 3 half-tone steps, what creates of course a specific sound. Interesting point .. maybe a pro can explain this better You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- www.musiclearningtools.net www.youtube.com/AndyVeil

Pedja Simovic View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 01:26 PM
Jan 5 2009, 01:26 PM	Instructor Posts: 8.109 Joined: 13-September 08 From: Nis, Serbia	@Berko Hungarian minor is not the same scale as Dorian #4. Dorian #4 is 4th mode of Harmonic minor scale and it has following formula 1 2 b3 #4 5 6 b7 8 Hungarian minor is like you mentioned and Ramiro said, Harmonic minor scale with raised 4th scale degree. Its important to mention that Hungarian minor is scale on its own and fits in the exotic type scales (standard scales are major, natural harmonic and melodic minor - everything else is exotic So for Hungarian minor you get now 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7 8 ! Lots of cool half steps in Hungarian minor, very gypsy sounding scale and beautiful to use when least expected Hope that works out for you Berko Edit : Hungarian minor is also known as Gypsy minor You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Jan 5 2009, 01:32 PM -------------------- My Video Lessons

berko View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 02:04 PM
Jan 5 2009, 02:04 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.771 Joined: 2-April 08 From: Budapest, Hungary	Thanks Pedja. So it's not the raised 4th issue then. And the Hungarian/Gypsy scale is considered to be "exotic" and a separate scale. (IMO the Gypsy scale could be a more appropriate name because Hungarian folk music is one the purest pentatonic stuff ever. More likely the Gypsy immigration brought this oriental feel with itself from the east). Still, Ramiro's version is different (found in the exotic scale list on his board and also in his 101 exotic scale lesson 6th video where hungarian/gypsy is mentioned as the 4th relative mode of the neapolitan minor scale). I checked it again. I said in the previous post that it's like a melodic minor type of minor with a raised 4th. It's not, according to Ramiro it's an Aeolian (natural minor) mode with a raised 4th... So even though I've known this scale as separate (and you also said this and I'll believe you), maybe a this Hungarian/gypsy kind of feel to a scale can be considered as more general. As wrk said, the minor 3rd and augmented 4th bares a 3 semitone gap which emphasizes the main characteristic of the scale. (Actually it completely alters even the natural minor scale 2122122 to 2131122 if counting semitones). So I'm not saying that either your or Ramiro (or Ramiro's theory book) are wrong, but we are not talking about the same scale. Should I stay with the classical term that Hun. minor is a harmonic minor with a raised 4th - and then when it is said to be natural minor (or even a melodic) minor with a raised 4th then that's just because the raised 4th is important? In Ramiros video lesson the 4th mode of the Neapolitan minor still bares the Hungarian minor feel but there the harmonic minor does not fit, but it doesn't seem to be important either... thanks in advance You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- High speed, low drag Check out my YouTube channel HERE! Here you can find my MYSPACE

Pedja Simovic View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 02:08 PM
Jan 5 2009, 02:08 PM	Instructor Posts: 8.109 Joined: 13-September 08 From: Nis, Serbia	@Berko Lots of information As I suggested harmonic minor with raised 4th is gypsy minor. Let me do some research , I might even scan some pages from books and notes I have from Berklee and upload them here - that could be very useful I hope For now Dorian #4 is 4th mode of Harmonic minor. Gypsy minor is scale by itself and its harmonic minor with raised 4th scale degree You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Video Lessons

berko View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 02:13 PM
Jan 5 2009, 02:13 PM	GMC:er Posts: 1.771 Joined: 2-April 08 From: Budapest, Hungary	QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 5 2009, 02:08 PM) @Berko Lots of information As I suggested harmonic minor with raised 4th is gypsy minor. Let me do some research , I might even scan some pages from books and notes I have from Berklee and upload them here - that could be very useful I hope For now Dorian #4 is 4th mode of Harmonic minor. Gypsy minor is scale by itself and its harmonic minor with raised 4th scale degree So far so good! Thanks Pedja, you're my man! Lots of names and approaches towards scales, I think I'm driving it over a bit. For me these exotic scales are pure abstractions yet, it helps me to understand the standard ones better. I'm not planning to improvise in a neapolitan major in the near future ... although it wouldn't do any harm as far as I know... cheers You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- High speed, low drag Check out my YouTube channel HERE! Here you can find my MYSPACE

Emir Hot View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 02:16 PM
Jan 5 2009, 02:16 PM	Instructor Posts: 7.201 Joined: 14-July 08 From: London UK	Sorry guys I lost this topic on my "new posts" list. Pedja explained it well. A little tip about Dorian and Minor scale would help. Every time you hear "Dorian" you should know that there is natural 6th *Dorian strongest note". Dorian is also a minor scale because it has minor 3rd but if you say Dorian it must have natural 6th while natural or harmonic minor scales have b6 in the formula. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my <a href="https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Emir-Hot" target="_blank">Instructor profile</a> www.emirhot.com www.myspace.com/emirhotguitar www.myspace.com/sevdahmetal

Ramiro Delforte View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 05:46 PM
Jan 5 2009, 05:46 PM	Instructor Posts: 2.279 Joined: 4-August 08 From: Argentina, Buenos Aires	Here's a Wiki entry about the scale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_minor_scale. It has the same notes that I took from the Befumo book. Here's the Mathias Eklundh site and it has the same notes http://www.freakguitar.com/hungarianmin.html. And in this link http://jguitar.com/scale/C/Hungarian%20Gypsy they named as Pedja said but the notes are the same. You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- Check out my Instructor Profile and Board LIVE VIDEO CHATS EVERY MONDAY AROUND 22PM (GMC HOUR)

IDontWantMyUsern... IDontWantMyUsername View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 06:00 PM
Jan 5 2009, 06:00 PM	GMC:er Posts: 405 Joined: 22-June 07 From: Mosjøen, Norway	Will for example harmonic minor with an augmented fourth also have the possibility of being named Harmonic Minor #4? Just want to see if I got everything right You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! This post has been edited by IDontWantMyUsername: Jan 5 2009, 06:03 PM -------------------- My stuff: Ibanez S320 Marshall MG100HDFX half stack Line6 PODxt Digidesign Mbox Pro Songs I'm writing down/learning at the moment: Children of Bodom - Downfall

Pedja Simovic View Member Profile	Jan 5 2009, 06:12 PM
Jan 5 2009, 06:12 PM	Instructor Posts: 8.109 Joined: 13-September 08 From: Nis, Serbia	QUOTE (IDontWantMyUsername @ Jan 5 2009, 06:00 PM) Will for example harmonic minor with an augmented fourth also have the possibility of being named Harmonic Minor #4? Just want to see if I got everything right Yes ! You can call it Gypsy Minor , Harmonic minor #4 or Harmonic minor with augmented 4th ! Either of these works and end up being the same thing QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Jan 5 2009, 05:46 PM) Here's a Wiki entry about the scale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_minor_scale. It has the same notes that I took from the Befumo book. Here's the Mathias Eklundh site and it has the same notes http://www.freakguitar.com/hungarianmin.html. And in this link http://jguitar.com/scale/C/Hungarian%20Gypsy they named as Pedja said but the notes are the same. Awesome links Ramiro ! I was about to post Wiki entry and another website. This pretty much clears all the clouds around the scales. Hungarian minor = Gypsy minor = Harmonic minor #4 = Harmonic minor with augmented 4th ! Hope I didn't leave any term out You are at GuitarMasterClass.net Don't miss today's free lick. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! Don't miss today's free blues, jazz & country licks. Plus all our lessons are packed with free content! -------------------- My Video Lessons

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