Help With Understanding The Diminished Arpeggio And Chord
MrVegas
Aug 9 2020, 11:06 PM
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hello everybody. smile.gif
Im currently sitting at my practice area for hours now practicing sweep picking and arpeggios at the same time with the 7th. At the moment im practicing in the key of A and I am moving around all 7 chords in that key and playing all there arpeggios from the 6th string to the 1st and im am paying close attention to each interval. So I guess im practicing three different thing at once, intervals, sweep picking, and arpeggios. biggrin.gif
I see that 6 chords that belongs in the key of A, the 3rd 5th and 7th intervals of them all share the same notes of A major, or maybe im wrong?
I learned to play the diminished arpeggio by going to the 7interval of whatever major key im in or the 2nd of whatever minor key im in the just play 3rds all the way through the arpeggio and that will give me a diminished arpeggio. When I did this I see there is a F in a diminished arpeggio and no F in Amajor or am I mistaken and am I missing something?
so far my understanding of arpeggios is you can play any arpeggio that is diatonic to the key your in at anytime and it will work, but is this the case for a diminished arpeggio as well. I know diminished is not used a whole lot but I still would like a clear understanding of it.
also if someone would say "play a Amajor arpeggio is it always implied to play the 7th with it. or would most people say play a Amajor7th arpeggio?

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Gabriel Leopardi
Aug 9 2020, 11:23 PM
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Hi mate! Great to see you working on these topics. It's also cool to know that you are not only practicing the techniques and shapes, you are also getting into the notes and theory behind them.

The diminished arpeggio comes from Hamonic minor or Melodic minor scales and are usually played over the V grade of a minor scale, it this grade (chord) is played Major or Dominant. Let's supose that your are playing in A minor, and the chord E (or E7) sound in the progression. That's when the diminished arpeggio will shine. In other words, this arpeggio sounds great everytime you have the V7 of any minor chord.


Also if someone would say "play a Amajor arpeggio is it always implied to play the 7th with it. or would most people say play a Amajor7th arpeggio?

A major arpeggio would refer to the triad (Root - 3 - 5). In most cases when saying Major arpeggio, you can also consider the addition of the major 7th, since when referring to the minor 7th version, we would say "A dominant arpeggio".

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MrVegas
Aug 10 2020, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Aug 9 2020, 10:23 PM) *
The diminished arpeggio comes from Hamonic minor or Melodic minor scales

I played through the harmonic and melodic minor scales and compared them to the diminished 7th arpeggio, I have not yet recorded a loop of a dominant 7 chord to loop and play over, but I plan on doing so tonight to see how it sounds. since you pointed out that the diminished arpeggio comes from the harmonic minor scale and I did not know that, i played the harmonic minor and I see that a G#diminished7 arpeggio shares the same notes as a F# harmonic minor scale. did I work this out correctly?

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Aug 9 2020, 10:23 PM) *
played over the V grade of a minor scale, it this grade (chord) is played Major or Dominant. Let's supose that your are playing in A minor, and the chord E (or E7) sound in the progression.

I think I may have learned the minor scale incorrectly at some point, not the scale itself I mean, but the chords in the minor key. I always thought the 5 chord in the minor key is v and the 5 chord in the major key is V7.
so I have just been shown by you if I am in the key of A minor, the 5 chord is E7, not Em. and if im in the key of A major the 5 chord is also E7?

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Aug 9 2020, 10:23 PM) *
A major arpeggio would refer to the triad (Root - 3 - 5). In most cases when saying Major arpeggio, you can also consider the addition of the major 7th, since when referring to the minor 7th version, we would say "A dominant arpeggio".

I feel as I gain these little bits of information, while practicing things I can't play, I've found a small piece of a puzzle, put it in its place, and the larger picture begins to emerge

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This post has been edited by MrVegas: Aug 10 2020, 11:43 PM
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klasaine
Sep 4 2020, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (MrVegas @ Aug 10 2020, 03:39 PM) *
I think I may have learned the minor scale incorrectly at some point, not the scale itself I mean, but the chords in the minor key. I always thought the 5 chord in the minor key is v and the 5 chord in the major key is V7.
so I have just been shown by you if I am in the key of A minor, the 5 chord is E7, not Em. and if im in the key of A major the 5 chord is also E7?


Most of the time when we play in minor, especially rock and pop, we 'borrow' the V chord from the major key i.e., in Am we'll usually use E or E7 for the V chord instead of Em. *I make a point to say usually. A lot of blues, soul and reggae will use that minor v chord.

The existence of both the melodic and harmonic minor scales is predicated on our ears wanting to hear a strong (read major or dominant) V chord resolving to i. We like that 'leading tone' - G# to A.

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MrVegas
Sep 7 2020, 07:40 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Sep 4 2020, 10:57 PM) *
Most of the time when we play in minor, especially rock and pop, we 'borrow' the V chord from the major key

thank you, trying to put the pieces together. i had a little more practice with the V7 chord the past few days. i have been working on memorizing modes and ive spent a couple days getting mixolydian under my fingers, modes are not so hard to understand when you know where your at in the major scale. and messing with mixolydian made me undersatnd how the V7 chord can be used better, i also saw when playing a V7 arpeggio i was just about playing the mixolydian mode all along biggrin.gif

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PosterBoy
Oct 6 2020, 02:14 PM
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This talks about the diminished 7 chord in blues, and might be interesting to you

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