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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Home Studio On A Budget!
Posted by: ConnorGilks May 27 2013, 07:05 AM
I wrote a small article on my website about putting together a home studio on a budget, thought maybe it could help a few people out since I've had quite a few questions about my setup and have had a lot of conversations on here with regards to beginner's guides to home studios.
http://www.connorgilks.com/apps/blog/show/26739342-building-a-home-studio-on-a-budget
Let me know if you have any questions!
In the meantime, who here has a home recording setup? What do you use? Post pics if you can. 
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 27 2013, 08:02 AM
Nice article man! Well, at this point, I decided to upgrade a bit and get the KRK Rokit 5 monitors and this audio interface: http://www.thomann.de/gb/emu_0404_usb.htm
If anybody has any experience with it, I'd be grateful for some info I worked with the 0402 and it is a very reliable device.
Posted by: ConnorGilks May 27 2013, 07:00 PM
Thanks man! Yeah I've been thinking of downgrading to the KRK 5's, I think the 8's I have are too much for such a small room. What did you have before the 5's?
That's a neat little interface, let me know how you like it!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 27 2013, 09:06 PM
Great article!! I didn't know this...
"Keep in mind that Skrillex made one of his albums entirely on a MacBook and some headphones. No one else mixing or producing,just him and some headphones."
If anybody has any experience with it, I'd be grateful for some info
I worked with the 0402 and it is a very reliable device.I'm also interested in getting these ones...
Posted by: dcz702 May 27 2013, 09:29 PM
I use a M audio interface,Mac Yamaha monitors. Couple mics and senheisier hd 280 cans. As I'm starting to play more I'm wanting to build up piece by piece I'm gonna add some v drums and midi controller soon.
Posted by: Sinisa Cekic May 27 2013, 10:26 PM
If anybody has any experience with it, I'd be grateful for some info
I worked with the 0402 and it is a very reliable device.I have 0404, and my honest recommendation is - don't buy ! To be clear, the device is correct in relation to the price, but if you intend to upgrade OS soon - the card isn't compatible with Windows 7, or 8! I had trouble to get it to work, but EMU has no support, no drivers. I tried some beta versions, but only frustration, the system sometimes recognize the card, and in the next 5 times wont, so...
Posted by: ConnorGilks May 27 2013, 11:50 PM
Gabriel: Yes! He said it himself. He says it in this interview at 1:45 about creating it on "blown speakers". In another interview with the BBC (also an YouTube) he says most of what he creates isn't in a studio, it's just him in a hotel with a laptop and headphones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0MIxoM_o_8
dcz702: Nice setup man!! Love the mini Recto too
Posted by: deeaa May 28 2013, 07:24 AM
Guys - do remember that while it's certainly possible to make music and whatnot with just headphones, do remember that the final mixes will certainly be done in a good studio - or in extreme cases at least the mastering is done on proper, hi-fi fullrange speakers.
I've used headphones a lot, but making sure that the low end isn't too messy and boomy it's very hard to know without trying out on actual speakers, and preferably systems with subwoofers as well. Otherwise you may end up with a track that sounds insanely good on your headphones and studio nearfield speakers, but when you punch it out thru a club PA the lowest bass may be just really annoying mush since the small speakers and headphones simply didn't really produce anything audible past 40Hz or so.
It happens quite a lot with our mixes - the mixer dude doesn't use a subwoofer and sometimes he just forgets the usual hi-pass filtering, and I have to remind him of it because my sub just makes these ugly rumbles :-)
These days it ain't such a big issue, but back in the day when vinyl was used...vinyl simply cannot reproduce the deepest bass tones, because the grooves would need to be so wide for them they literally don't fit on an LP any more. That's the reason EP vinyls were introduced - LP size but just a few tracks allowed for much lower bass to be recorded on vinyl as well.
Those days every engineer pretty much killed everything starting right after 80Hz or so...which is something a demo maker with just headphones should also do perhaps to make sure the bass won't break someone's sub. Just use a parametric EQ to remove all lowest content with a HP filter...if you can't hear it there, it's fine, but it's best to make sure there isn't any.
And also, a very nice article!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu May 28 2013, 09:46 AM
"Keep in mind that Skrillex made one of his albums entirely on a MacBook and some headphones. No one else mixing or producing,just him and some headphones."
I'm also interested in getting these ones...
Well, to my absolute shame - I was using little computer speakers for all the mixes I have done so far
This will be a real upgrade indeed
Posted by: Todd Simpson May 31 2013, 08:29 AM
Nice!!! That info is the subject of many questions here in the forum as you've seen. Great articulation of technical material and good scope. Thanks for sharing!!
Todd
http://www.connorgilks.com/apps/blog/show/26739342-building-a-home-studio-on-a-budget
Let me know if you have any questions!
In the meantime, who here has a home recording setup? What do you use? Post pics if you can.
Posted by: Darius Wave May 31 2013, 09:48 AM
Nice topic fellows!
I work on a pair of Adam A7 + Presonus INSPIRE 1394 firewire interface (most stable device I had). With usb devices had many issues.
I work on the PC. What I can say is that 90% problems (cause there are some indeed) are caused form using same device NOT ONLY for recording / mixing/ etc. As far as I had PC only for one purpose it worked good for a pretty long time. My expirience with different manufacturers of processors showed me that Intel (old Pentium or present i5 i7?) is most efficient for processing audio. I had One core pentium 1.6 and it handled more audio processes than the newer Athlon DualCore. Was also much more stable - less errors,blue screens, overheating. World goes on and plug-ins need more and more memory but this old pentium handled even some "heavy" sessions and never failed.
There is no other reason for using PC (in my case) than mentioned budget - tons of great, free plugins have no mac versions. Not alwasy afford to by Waves etc so in this particular situation PC gives more possibilities for the poor musicians
I was always considering buying a Mac and maybe someday it will happen (only good memories form studios - Macs were always stable as hell). But there will always be a PC close to it just so I could make some presets for students or check some options to help them use DAW, plug-ins etc. Most of them work on PC (cause it's they use it for everything).
I have a one issue that always cofuses me and I wonder how Do You treat this. Low end about 80 Hz and 118 - 127 Hz seems to be a nightmare of many rooms in which people listen to the music. I theory we as a producers should calibrate the monitors to the room. So after doing some meterings and cutting the resonating freq I was closer to something called eqaul freqs level (while passing the reference 50-16000Hz audio file). Now doing a recored with room eq like that makes that those boomy freqs in mix still comes out while someone who has no idea about it playes your mix in his room. So...I came back to "no room eq" set up and started to find some sweet spots and add a few dB's to compensate to narrow cuts in the mentioned low end. For example - cutting a 3 dB of resonating 80 Hz compensated by boosting the 70 Hz a bit. The idea is to put the bass in the spots that are smooth in most of rooms and cut the freqs that seems to be common problem. Usually the worst 127 HZ or somewhere around 118 Hz.
I wonder about You attitude to this issue?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi May 31 2013, 03:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0MIxoM_o_8
dcz702: Nice setup man!! Love the mini Recto too
I use headphones for checking EQ, effects, balance between left and right but when I have to define levels, I don't find Headphones useful, I can notice the real level of each instrument and voice, does this happen to you?
Posted by: tonymiro May 31 2013, 06:57 PM
I work on a pair of Adam A7 + Presonus INSPIRE 1394 firewire interface (most stable device I had). With usb devices had many issues.
I work on the PC. What I can say is that 90% problems (cause there are some indeed) are caused form using same device NOT ONLY for recording / mixing/ etc. As far as I had PC only for one purpose it worked good for a pretty long time. My expirience with different manufacturers of processors showed me that Intel (old Pentium or present i5 i7?) is most efficient for processing audio. I had One core pentium 1.6 and it handled more audio processes than the newer Athlon DualCore. Was also much more stable - less errors,blue screens, overheating. World goes on and plug-ins need more and more memory but this old pentium handled even some "heavy" sessions and never failed.
There is no other reason for using PC (in my case) than mentioned budget - tons of great, free plugins have no mac versions. Not alwasy afford to by Waves etc so in this particular situation PC gives more possibilities for the poor musicians
I was always considering buying a Mac and maybe someday it will happen (only good memories form studios - Macs were always stable as hell). But there will always be a PC close to it just so I could make some presets for students or check some options to help them use DAW, plug-ins etc. Most of them work on PC (cause it's they use it for everything).
I have a one issue that always cofuses me and I wonder how Do You treat this. Low end about 80 Hz and 118 - 127 Hz seems to be a nightmare of many rooms in which people listen to the music. I theory we as a producers should calibrate the monitors to the room. So after doing some meterings and cutting the resonating freq I was closer to something called eqaul freqs level (while passing the reference 50-16000Hz audio file). Now doing a recored with room eq like that makes that those boomy freqs in mix still comes out while someone who has no idea about it playes your mix in his room. So...I came back to "no room eq" set up and started to find some sweet spots and add a few dB's to compensate to narrow cuts in the mentioned low end. For example - cutting a 3 dB of resonating 80 Hz compensated by boosting the 70 Hz a bit. The idea is to put the bass in the spots that are smooth in most of rooms and cut the freqs that seems to be common problem. Usually the worst 127 HZ or somewhere around 118 Hz.
I wonder about You attitude to this issue?
Hi Darius,
If I understaood you correctly you need to correct/treat the room as much as you can for resonant frequencies, standing waves etc. If you don't you're assuming that you are cutting by the appropriate amount etc. This will also depend on the monitors used and how they are sited. as well as room design and construction. Translation ultimately should be done at mastering rather than at mixing.
With mixing whilst the bass and sub bass is important so are the mids and higher frequencies. You don't however need to achieve a flat anachoic chamber response but you do need to deal with the resonance and nodes. It is better to treat the room and only eq them out if you can't treat the room adequately.
Hope that makes sense and helps with the question.
---------------------------------
Oh and my set up:
(Room is acoustically treated and designed for mastering.)
Monitor chain is PC/DAW --> Lavry DAC11 --> ATC SCM Pro50 3 way monitors .
l l
l l
Prism Orpheus <--> Crookwood MA3 A7 Mastering Hardware router <--> Outboard hardware
Monitors are on stands.
Outboard includes mastering EQs, compressors etc. DAW is Sadie. Orpheus connects via firewire and the Lavry by EBU. The set up is balanced and properly gainstaged. I don't need a particularly powerful pc as I do very little processing in the daw, and use it mainly to compile, sequence and edit. PC is Win 7 64 bit, quad core.
Posted by: ConnorGilks May 31 2013, 10:10 PM
I have the same experience. I only use them to check bass response and the stereo image on occasion, good for monitoring too when I'm in the same room as an instrument and can't use my speakers without bleed happening. But yeah, the mix is way different with headphones on.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 1 2013, 11:20 AM
Guys, what would you choose between:
http://www.thomann.de/ro/emu_0404_usb.htm
and
http://www.thomann.de/ro/focusrite_scarlett_2i4.htm?sid=befccbcf9cb25fd345a1f56596999528
Posted by: Darius Wave Jun 1 2013, 01:01 PM
I meant mostly what happens when You go to Your friends and have to face the unfriendly rooms and traditional home audio devices, speakers to check Your own production od hi-fi. I was wondering Do You prefer to refere to the sterile, mastering room while mixing or do you already try to adopt it to the most popular, home rehearsal rooms (not home studios) ?
Posted by: tonymiro Jun 2 2013, 11:06 AM
Well mastering rooms aren't sterile, they are are close to accurate . I do prefer to refer to my set up as I know it well and how it translates to other listening environments. It's about having the experience and understanding of how your system works, what it does well and so on in comparison to other systems. That's a key part of mastering and one that is forgotten by those who do 'bedroom masters'; you have to think how the final master will be reproduced on a wide range of equipment and in a wide range of settings. One example is that very few people bother to do do a 'collapse to mono' check but many people ultimately hear most recordings in mono.
One thing you can do is take a couple of recordings that you know well and listen to them in the new environment so that you get a sense of how they are representing the audio.
----------------------
Cosmin - between the two I'd go with the Scarlet for the reasons Sinisa described above.
I think the EMU has been around for quite a while and the lack of updates and support means you may struggle to get it to run properly on a newish pc and OS. Also, the Scarlet shouldl have a more upto date specification and so should be able to perform better.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 2 2013, 01:54 PM
Thank you Tony!
I have also considered buying the KRK Rokit8 G2 set as I understood they are far better than the Rokit5, regarding the low end. Also, I have received a new recommendation in respect to the audio interface: http://www.avaudiosys.ro/Avid-MBox-Mini--4--118.html
What do you guys think? This will push costs though, so I might have to wait till next month for that...
Posted by: tonymiro Jun 2 2013, 02:39 PM
Assuming the 8 and 5 refers to the size of the bass speaker than the 8 should roll off at a lower point and so deliver more perceived low end Cosmin. With the 5 you'd really need a subwoofer to be able to cope with anything below @100 Hz whereas the 8 should be reasonably linear to about 60, but may roll of quite sharply after that. So if you need to hear the low end I'd go for the 8.
(That said though there are other things to consider like where the cross over is, how the small speaker copes with mid and high frequencies, how good the bass speaker is, cabinet rigidity, power amp spec... There's no end to all this 
)
Avid MBox is fine but if I remember correctly Avid are dropping the prosumer lines. If that is the case you might have difficulty in the future getting new drivers and updates - which is similar to the issues Sinesa has with the EMU. Have a word with Todd as he's more up to date on Avid than I am.
Posted by: maharzan Jun 2 2013, 04:16 PM
Heres my setup. Oh God, I even don't have a table. 
I can't place things permanently as my room is pretty small so need to pack things when done. I bought the speakers about 2 years ago and this is only probably 2nd time I used it.. lol! I do plan to make a good home studio (like Steve Vais except for gears) within the next 2 years where I will be spending my retirement.
I use Axe FX II for guitars and I recently bought the Focusrite 18i20 which is awesome! 
Posted by: deeaa Jun 2 2013, 08:54 PM
The fives definitely need a subwoofer.
Posted by: ConnorGilks Jun 2 2013, 09:24 PM
Lots of good info flying around here, and a killer setup too (I didn't have a table for my setup for a long time too haha).
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 2 2013, 10:14 PM
I"d say SCARLETT. I hope this is ok, since I think you mentioned buying the EMU? The Scarlett has really nice specs for the price and a bit better mic preamps imho.
Todd
http://www.thomann.de/ro/emu_0404_usb.htm
and
http://www.thomann.de/ro/focusrite_scarlett_2i4.htm?sid=befccbcf9cb25fd345a1f56596999528
YUP!!! Almost any smaller near fields (5 inch, 6 inch, woofer especially) really do need a subwoofer. Otherwise you are just guessing about the bass. The result is usually overbassy mixes.
Many folks, new to home recording, often think that home stereo speakers that "sound good" will work well for mixing. Sadly, these speakers are typically not good for mixing since they exaggerate the bass/treble. However, sometimes there is no other choice. If the budget does not permit good speakers, then you have to work with what you've got.
Todd
The ROKIT 5 speakers are a great choice IMHO!!! For the price they are hard to beat. I"ve got the ROKIT 6 and I really like them. They have served me really well.
I did have to add a subwoofer and that's not cheap as you know. But once I did, I could actually here what was going on in the bottom of the mix. Without the sub, it's pure guesswork. HEadphones will give you some clues, but it's not quite the same.
I have an unmatched sub from a generic builder. I want the matched KRK sub but it's a bit pricey. I've got my eye out for one
Todd
If anybody has any experience with it, I'd be grateful for some info
I worked with the 0402 and it is a very reliable device.Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 3 2013, 07:12 AM
Thank you for the great input guys!
So, I will stay with the KRK Rokit8 and probably think the interface a bit more - I am thinking of expanding my budget a bit, so that I may have a better choice. What would you recommend for about 250-300 bucks?
Posted by: Darius Wave Jun 3 2013, 09:26 AM
I can't place things permanently as my room is pretty small so need to pack things when done. I bought the speakers about 2 years ago and this is only probably 2nd time I used it.. lol! I do plan to make a good home studio (like Steve Vais except for gears) within the next 2 years where I will be spending my retirement. I use Axe FX II for guitars and I recently bought the Focusrite 18i20 which is awesome!
Ha ha
I used to use the boxes as a stands too Better this than anything solid, that links the bass to the floor or table. Now I have to fix the new place. Sound is bad as hell - room is smaller than the previous one (but it's now only for the audio purpose and I don't have to "sleep at work place" . I think I will not survive without making some bass traps and putting something "not solid" on the table. at this point there is no chace I could refer to the sound coming out of this speakers. But...it's alwyas a bit wof work to be done when move to different place Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 3 2013, 05:51 PM
Maybe add a couple hundred bux to it and get the SCARLET that MAHARZAN bought? It's got plenty of inputs and sounds good
The trouble with the $2500$300 range is that most gear in that range is sonically not that different IMHO. Your mostly choosing based on what features you want, rather than quality preamps etc.
In that range, the Presonus stuff is good, and the smaller SCARLET is good as well.
Todd
So, I will stay with the KRK Rokit8 and probably think the interface a bit more - I am thinking of expanding my budget a bit, so that I may have a better choice. What would you recommend for about 250-300 bucks?
Posted by: deeaa Jun 3 2013, 09:09 PM
+1 for presonus.
I don't think any manufacturer is always up to speed on everything...studio grade soundcards are a bit of a niche market anyway in the great scheme...but, I've had a lot of soundcards, and this current presonus has been so far and by far the most trouble free. Usually I've changed soundcards due to driver issues with new os'es. They always come late, the drivers I mean.
Still, not perfect. I can't get it to send midi from cubade for whatever reason. Or, it could be the alesis drum brain is the culprit.
My next card will likely be presonus too, or, if I can afford it, possibly Motu.
Posted by: Britishampfan Jun 3 2013, 09:37 PM
I really hate to say it but the recording gear that gets used the most is my Mac book Pro, a Fast Track Ultra.
I gave up on pro tools, hardly ever use it anymore the machine just sits there in the studio, and really for just home and small band use a cheap interface and garageband on a mac is as good as anything, and easy too.
How many tracks do you need recorded at once? My fast track can do 6 enough for me. I try to keep recoding easy and simple.
Lots of great projects were recorded on garageband.
I am a big Logic fan, cause it just works, all the time no issues.
I have a really hard time operating the equipment and performance at the same time, left brain, right brain thing for me I can`t do both, my writing and playing suffers. I need easy, or I just get lost and frustrated.
Posted by: maharzan Jun 4 2013, 05:46 AM
Just to add My Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 just worked when I plugged in. They said to download drivers but it worked without them too, which is awesome. I had a lot of issues with Pro Tools, having to stick that thing and then needed to install drivers etc and with no firewire 400 port, it just got difficult. Its all personal choice afterall and you get used to things you have. I wanted to buy a USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt interface since thats the future but not many are there and they are over 3000 bucks. I am also after good design, afterall I am a designer. If you need lesser inputs, this looks good too: http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8 or http://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i2
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 4 2013, 12:59 PM
The trouble with the $2500$300 range is that most gear in that range is sonically not that different IMHO. Your mostly choosing based on what features you want, rather than quality preamps etc.
In that range, the Presonus stuff is good, and the smaller SCARLET is good as well.
Todd
Thanks Todd! After doing some more research I found the following gimmick - a pair of old generation Behringer monitors the 2030 NOT the 2030A which are made now. I understand they are a sort of a 'manufacturing mistake' which actually sounds excellent, but the thing is they are not made anymore so I should find them on eBay. Anybody know stuff about them?
Posted by: deeaa Jun 4 2013, 04:41 PM
They're direct Genelec copies so yeah, they sound GREAT for the money indeed...my friend had a pair but when they started darting later he got the original Genelecs. And they really don't sound hugely better even. Clearly a little, but the behris are quite good.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 4 2013, 11:07 PM
Which speakers you are talking about? It's a good sized thread with lots of replies so using a snippet of what you are replying to is always helpful Are you talking about the KRK speakers?
Todd
Posted by: deeaa Jun 5 2013, 05:10 AM
Behringer 2030 is Genelec 1030 copy.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 5 2013, 08:13 AM
Yes, yes, those are the ones my friend was talking about and he also said that he can hunt them down for me on eBay Will keep you guys updated on this little endeavor!
Posted by: tonymiro Jun 5 2013, 08:26 AM
Yep. A lot of Behringer stuff is a close copy of other gear. This probably helps explain why Behringer stuff is cheap as they probably have low R&D. Another reason though is that the build quality of Behringer can be a bit hit and miss, you can strike lucky and get a good one but often they go wrong. If you can Cosmin you need to physically check the monitors out just to make sure the build quality and also that the speaker cones are ok etc. (This is true of all used monitors though - some people have bought used Yamaha NS10s and then find that they've been thrashed.)
Posted by: Darius Wave Jun 5 2013, 08:55 AM
Yep...Behringer is a weird thing. I still think that the Truth series is one of the best that money can buy in it's price range. Also little tube mic preamp are cool. I thought that I'll get tons of noise out of it or some other issues...but I was surprised and decided to keep it
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 5 2013, 09:37 AM
Thank you Tony - indeed this can be a major miss, simply because if I get them from eBay, I can't check anything .... pfff. I should think this thoroughly. I also thought about these: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/speakers/msp_studio_series/msp5_studio/?mode=model
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 5 2013, 11:34 PM
COSMIN:
I had a pair of 2030a and they were AWFUL. I don't know about trusting a manufacturing mistake for mixing. I"d honestly suggest avoiding behringer speakers. Speakers are just to crucial.
I"ve tried those yamaha and they were pretty awful as well. Zero bass, wonky shrill treble. Only good for talk back monitors.
For the price, I'd say (same as most folks so it's hardly original) get some KRK Rokits Get the 6 or the 8 and add a sub later, whenever. Those Behringers and those yamahas are just not worthy of mixing your music.
Todd
Posted by: deeaa Jun 6 2013, 06:33 AM
Generally, I always avoid anything Behringer. Too many quality issues...
But, nearfield monitors are kinda supposed to sound awful, by and large...especially the Yamaha NS-10's. Well anyway, they
re designed to be anything but pleasing to the ear. The idea is they should reveal every little flaw in the recording, mercilessly make it sound terrible until it actually is good...you make your mixes sound great on a pair of the classic Yamahas or 1030's and they will sound AWESOME with most any consumer grade speakers.
I suppose that's why they named them 'Truth' as they should reveal the ugly truth of recordings indeed...BUT it could of course be just the usual Behringer quality & a bad pair. I've owned likely 20 or so Behringer products and about the only thing that never let me down & I constantly use is teh UltraG d/i box. Everything else has proved to be a noise generator like their mixers, or simply gotten broke real quick. Merely mixers, I've gone thru about four.
KRK's are pretty good, but whenever I take my mixes to my friend's 'big' studio and listen to them on his systems (several pairs of Genelecs, KRK's, etc.) I always find a lot of things wrong with them and try to remember what it was when I correct the mixes.
I wish I could get a pair of real 1030's...my friend has one and they're totally in a different class than my KRK's. But then again, they're like five times more expensive too.
Posted by: ConnorGilks Jun 6 2013, 07:40 AM
Behringer actually make great mixers and a fantastic MIDI controller that's built super solid and has great features for really cheap. Otherwise though you are correct, not great quality.
KRK's are solid speakers. They are the SM57 of the studio monitor world - everyone has 'em. They may not be the best, but they are everywhere, and that should say something about them. I love mine, very nice speakers.
Posted by: Darius Wave Jun 6 2013, 08:02 AM
Yeah...I would stand by the Behringer as well because I tried tons of their products (working in the music shop) and we compard some of the truth series directly to Adam's, NS10's, KRK and Genelec's. I was considering buying them if there would be any budget problems. Of course I do agree - I would not advice Behringer as a good manufacturer. I would onlysuggest that You can find some random models that work fine and cost very little amount of money .
Finally bought the A7's from Adam but like someone said - Close field monitors need You to get used to / learn their sound. You need to learn to not overuse the low end (or just use the sub) and get known with their bright sound. They are not that cruel in the high middle (like NS10) but still less countour that KRK. When mixing on NS10 at the beggining we had some problems finding good midrange for guitars. Yamaha's had too many high mid's and when we found the good tone for guitars ...then it sounded to "scooped", dry and fizzy on the home audio gear like Denon, Technics amplituners with hi-fi speakers...
I use many different monitoring stuff and I found some people working only on the close field monitors (without the sub) do the mixes that sound awful on home cinema stuff or just a PC 2 +1 speakers. That's because they use too much base. I remember my first mixes on NS10's. I had no sub then and had to learn them for some time.
Posted by: deeaa Jun 6 2013, 08:54 AM
Lots of behri stuff sounds good...for a while. We had a buch of the mixers for our pa and they were fine, but not exactly road proof. Each lasted about a year of road.
I still have a xenyx 802 I use for drum submixes but it has developed quite a few issues over a few years of use. A coupla scratchy pots, left channel is a few db quieter than right, a wee bit background hum etc.. but works ok for now.
I used a minimon 800? For years in my home studio, but since I got a really quiet room, I realized it was a virtual noise generator really. Also some autocom compressor....realized simply plugging it in made the sound noticeably worse. But, I had to get rid of for instance a furman headphone amp because it's psu made such a lot of noise. My studio is so quiet now, I can hear wall warts humming and the biggest noise comes from my pc monitors making a buzzing sound. But I can tame that by changing contrast settings...I'd have never thought monitors make entirely different frequency noise (even unplugged from pc, just powered up)depending on their brightness etc. Settings. I mean, no way to hear it in a normal quiet room but now in my basement soundproof room, paper rustling sounds like an avalanche, and when I use the keyboard it feels like firing a submachine gun :-) anyway...now I can finally hear how different gear sounds so different.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 6 2013, 09:31 AM
Guess I'll stick to the KRK8 - but Todd, as I understood these are good in what regards lows, right? Would I also need to ad a sub later on for the KRK8?
Posted by: tonymiro Jun 6 2013, 03:30 PM
Not quite Cosmin. The KRK8 is better than the 5 in terms of how low it can go before appreciable attenuation and in that price range is one of the better ones around. The advantage of the 8 is that you probably won't need to get a sub. The 5 and a properly set up sub should actually be better but it would cost more and you'd have to get the sub properly set up.
For those interested - To the best of my knowledge pretty much all monitors below £1000 are a near field, 2 way, open port monitors. As a generalisation all open port monitors that cost below @£1000 lack sufficient cabinet rigidity etc partly due to the port and this results in a bass that suffers from distortion, timing, filtering and placement issues. This is exacerbated as the monitor is two way because the mid band suffers from not having its own speaker, plus the crossover is compromised. Professional mastering engineers tend to use closed 3 way mid field monitors to try to overcome these issues.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 7 2013, 11:42 AM
Hey Tony, thank you very much for the input! I will go for the KRK8 as at this point it is the best choice, in respect to all the factors. Regarding the interfaces, I have recently found out about this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digidesign-003-Rack-/290926718651?pt=US_Computer_Recording_Interfaces&hash=item43bc956ebb
and this one
http://www.thomann.de/gb/tc_electronic_desktop_konnekt_6.htm
There is a price difference of course - but I understood that the Digidesign is a very good piece of gear - the only thing is that it can only be found second hand...
Posted by: bobg Jun 21 2013, 08:06 PM
http://www.thomann.de/ro/emu_0404_usb.htm
and
http://www.thomann.de/ro/focusrite_scarlett_2i4.htm?sid=befccbcf9cb25fd345a1f56596999528
I'd suggest that you stay away from the eMu and get the Scarlett.
However, if you could put just a bit more money together, I'd recommend this:
http://www.thomann.de/ro/focusrite_saffire_pro_24.htm
Much better unit IMHO with more options and better preamps for just a bit more than the Scarlett.
[quote name='Cosmin Lupu' date='Jun 7 2013, 10:42 AM' post='646677']
Hey Tony, thank you very much for the input! I will go for the KRK8 as at this point it is the best choice, in respect to all the factors.
If you have the capacity to do A/B listening, consider doing the KRKs vs the M-Audio BX8A d2s : http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BX8D2
I don't know what either will cost where you live but I see they both get good reviews.
I own the BX8As and they are very nice. and LOUD! With great Bass Response.
I'd love to hear them against the KRK8's myself!
I own the KRK 5's and seldom use them at all.
IMO, they are Lifeless.
BG
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 22 2013, 01:00 AM
TONI MIRO is, per usal, SPOT ON!!! The 8 has better bass response than the 5 and can work as a stand alone system and provide good results. You can always add a sub later of course, but I wouldn't say it was imperative. If you go with the 5/6 then a sub is more important as was mentioned
P.S. The KRK tweeters can be, sometimes, a tad on the bright side, so they have a knob on the back to reduce the treble output. Be careful not to over do it, usually comparing them to another set, or some nice headphones can get you in the ball park. Of course, a spectrum analyzer is the best route, but we are talking quick and dirty home recording here
Todd
BTW: ABOUT THE POST ON THE SAFFIRE AND MAUDIO MONITORS:
GOOD CALL ON THE SAFFIRE!!!Nice mic pre, really solid unit!!!
HOWEVER: I can't jump in on the MAUDIO BX8A for one reason, THEY SOUND TOO GOOD!:) I've listened to both and the BX8A sound AMAZINGLY GOOD but that's not always what you want in mixing. They tend to be a smidge BOOM/TWEET happy and thus can impede you getting a mix that translates well IMHO
They are fine speakers to be sure, but the LIFELESS quality in the KRKs is why I ended up going that direction to be honest. In that price range, the mixes seem to translate well on a variety of systems a bit better that any other options I've tried or tested.
The ADAM speakers are another good example. Double the price of the KRK but the tweeters are a tad too good.They sometimes make a mix sound like it has the right amount of airtweet, when the mix is actually a tad dull. Again, personal thoughts, your mileage may vary
Posted by: tonymiro Jun 22 2013, 08:14 AM
The BX8A is I believe yet another 2 way ported design and as such it suffers from the same bass issues as other 2 way ported designs. Whether or not it's better than a KRK at the same price point but I think the KRK 8 is several hundred Euros cheaper As Todd says Adam would possibly be 'better' still but are again at a different price point and what constitutes 'better' depends on need, room design and construction, positioning, etc.
One thing that I would add which is important: You should not run your monitors 'loud' for long periods. You should listen at low perceived levels in order to both protect your hearing and in relation to the Fletcher Munsun curves. You should really be running your monitors at around 78dB as measured at your listening point. Too many people run their monitors at over 83dB for long perods and this may well result in hearing issues in their later lives. If you don't have a decibel meter a simple check of the level is to get someone to stand a few feet from you and talk to you quietly whilst your monitors play. If you can't hear what they are saying clearly then your level is probably too high.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 23 2013, 07:35 AM
BRILLIANT POINT:
It didn't even occur to me to mention this but YES YES YES. You can get a FREE APP FOR ANDROID PHONES that will act as a quick and dirty decible meter from the Android Appstore online. It's accurate enough to show you when you are pushing it in terms of volume. Long term exposure to bigh DB material causes permanent damage and you get ONE PAIR OF EARS.
Think of having only one pair of strings for life? how would you treat them? Thats how folks should ideally treat their ears It's not always feasible, but it's worth considering without doubt.
Also, high DB can cause perceptual issues when mixing due to various factors, (room modes/speaker design) so Toni is yet again spot on when he says LISTEN QUIETLY FIRST and OFTEN.
Todd
One thing that I would add which is important: You should not run your monitors 'loud' for long periods. You should listen at low perceived levels in order to both protect your hearing and in relation to the Fletcher Munsun curves. You should really be running your monitors at around 78dB as measured at your listening point. Too many people run their monitors at over 83dB for long perods and this may well result in hearing issues in their later lives. If you don't have a decibel meter a simple check of the level is to get someone to stand a few feet from you and talk to you quietly whilst your monitors play. If you can't hear what they are saying clearly then your level is probably too high.
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