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Playing Over Chords With Zero Theory Knowledge
Caelumamittendum
Dec 6 2021, 09:31 AM
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It's always good to relate new theory to something you know well smile.gif

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Phil66
Dec 12 2021, 08:49 PM
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I've just put these on my keyboard to help me try to understand. I know it looks like elementary school but if it helps it doesn't matter. I don't really need the black ones but I put them on anyway.



I think where I've been confusing myself is using C major/A minor as my reference. If you take the C major triad, it is C E and G, if you then count using C as 1 you get C1 E3 and G5 this is how I was getting confused with the 1st 3rd and 5th.

Does that make sense as to how I couldn't make sense of it all?

Cheers.

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This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 12 2021, 09:12 PM


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Caelumamittendum
Dec 12 2021, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 09:49 PM) *
I've just put these on my keyboard to help me try to understand. I know it looks like elementary school but if it helps it doesn't matter. I don't really need the black ones but I put them on anyway.



I think where I've been confusing myself is using C major/A minor as my reference. If you take the C major triad, it is C E and G, if you then count using C as 1 you get C1 E3 and F5 this is how I was getting confused with the 1st 3rd and 5th.

Does that make sense as to how I couldn't make sense of it all?

Cheers.


I think you meant G as the 5th instead of F when you said "F5", but yes. I think it would be interesting for you to look at the intervals if you haven't already. As I talked about in one of the videos you will see that that talking about the C major chord, if you go from C to E it is 4 half steps (semitones) and then from E to G is 3 half steps (semitones). From C to the G is 7 semitones. You might remember it as 4+3=7.

The A minor triad A C E, and counting from A to C is only 3 half steps, but from C to E is 4 half steps. That's 3+4=7.

Similarly you could look at the C minor triad and you will see that it is 3+4=7. C Eb and G.

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 12 2021, 09:12 PM


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Phil66
Dec 12 2021, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Dec 12 2021, 08:11 PM) *
I think you meant G as the 5th instead of F when you said "F5", but yes. I think it would be interesting for you to look at the intervals if you haven't already. As I talked about in one of the videos you will see that that talking about the C major chord, if you go from C to E it is 4 half steps (semitones) and then from E to G is 3 half steps (semitones). From C to the G is 7 semitones. You might remember it as 4+3=7.

The A minor triad A C E, and counting from A to C is only 3 half steps, but from C to E is 4 half steps. That's 3+4=7.

Similarly you could look at the C minor triad and you will see that it is 3+4=7. C Eb and G.



I've edited it now, typo rolleyes.gif

Yes I understand a little bit more now about the intervals, but can you understand how I was getting confused with the 1st, 3rd and 5th? I was calling the root the 1st which I think, the 1st would actually be C#. I can't believe it's taken me all this time to realise this error rolleyes.gif

https://www.musictheoryacademy.com/understa...g-music/triads/ is probably what I need to concentrate on for a while.

Thanks

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Caelumamittendum
Dec 12 2021, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 10:19 PM) *
I've edited it now, typo rolleyes.gif

Yes I understand a little bit more now about the intervals, but can you understand how I was getting confused with the 1st, 3rd and 5th? I was calling the root the 1st which I think, the 1st would actually be C#. I can't believe it's taken me all this time to realise this error rolleyes.gif

https://www.musictheoryacademy.com/understa...g-music/triads/ is probably what I need to concentrate on for a while.

Thanks


Good link, yes. As they say:

"You will find that if you build triads starting on different white notes then they may sound very different.
This is because the number of semitones (half tones or half steps) separating each of the notes will be different depending on which white note you choose as your starting point.
These differences in intervals will cause you to create different types of triad."

----

And yeah, C to C# would be "1 half step" or "1 semitone", but we actually call that interval the "minor second" laugh.gif

Attached Image

Our diatonic scales consist of 7 notes, such as the C major scale above with the numbers. You would consider C=1 (root) as the first note, D=2 (second), E=3 (third) and so on, as you wrote above when you said C1, E3, G5. But remember that the term "third" can cover both minord 3rd and major 3rd. Same with some of the other intervals, such as minor 7th or major 7th, but only the "third" really decides whether the chord as a whole is minor or major.

(Note that adding numbers to the note names like this will indicate the octave the note is in. C4 is middle C, for instance. I do know what you were illustrating in your example though of course).

Here is a chart that shows the intervals and their names and note relations from C:

Attached Image

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 12 2021, 09:44 PM


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Phil66
Dec 12 2021, 10:02 PM
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Just when you think you're starting to get the hang of something, BOOM wacko.gif wacko.gif And what's so perfect about the perfect fourth and fifth that makes the other notes not perfect????????? blink.gif blink.gif

I reckon the bloke/woman that came up with all of this malarkey wasn't very pragmatic laugh.gif laugh.gif

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MonkeyDAthos
Dec 12 2021, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 10:02 PM) *
Just when you think you're starting to get the hang of something, BOOM wacko.gif wacko.gif And what's so perfect about the perfect fourth and fifth that makes the other notes not perfect????????? blink.gif blink.gif

I reckon the bloke/woman that came up with all of this malarkey wasn't very pragmatic laugh.gif laugh.gif


their high degree of consonance against a root in comparison with other intervals.

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This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Dec 12 2021, 11:45 PM


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Phil66
Dec 12 2021, 11:44 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Dec 12 2021, 10:37 PM) *
their high degree of consonance against a root in comparison with other intervals.


???? smile.gif

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MonkeyDAthos
Dec 12 2021, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 11:44 PM) *
???? smile.gif

Try and play all the diferent intervals once, and let your ear decide.
You will probably find theblikes of minor 2, major 7 and tritone as the more dissonance, while 5ths 4ths and octave the more stable.

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This post has been edited by MonkeyDAthos: Dec 12 2021, 11:50 PM


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Caelumamittendum
Dec 12 2021, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 11:02 PM) *
Just when you think you're starting to get the hang of something, BOOM wacko.gif wacko.gif And what's so perfect about the perfect fourth and fifth that makes the other notes not perfect????????? blink.gif blink.gif

I reckon the bloke/woman that came up with all of this malarkey wasn't very pragmatic laugh.gif laugh.gif


I don't know if reading more about the terms will confuse or clear anything up.

One answer I like comes from a reply here, but it seems a bit unclear where the term "perfect" comes from, it seems:

https://music.stackexchange.com/a/22549

"A “perfect” interval is one that has nice small integer frequency ratios in Pythagorean Tuning. These are traditionally considered the most consonant intervals.

P1 = 1:1
P8 = 2:1
P5 = 3:2
P4 = 4:3
Major and minor intervals have more complex ratios:

M2 = 9:8
m7 = 16:9
M6 = 27:16
m3 = 32:27
M3 = 81:64
m6 = 128:81
M7 = 243:128
m2 = 256:243
(They are distinguished by major intervals having a power of 3 in the numerator, and minor intervals having a power of 3 in the denominator.)

Augmented and diminished ratios, being father away from unison on the circle of fifths, are more complex still.

This classification may not make as much sense in other tuning systems like 5-limit just intonation, which aims to make major and minor thirds more consonant by simplifying their ratios to 5:4 and 6:5, or to the now-ubiquitous equal temperament which abandons integer ratios altogether. But musical terminology is slow to change."

Here's a diagram. Remember that we use Equal Temperament in this day and age:



Taken from here, that's a bit more deep dive: https://www.compadre.org/osp/EJSS/4497/282.htm

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Phil66
Dec 12 2021, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (MonkeyDAthos @ Dec 12 2021, 10:45 PM) *
Try and play all the diferent intervals once, and let your ear decide.
You will probably find theblikes of minor 2, manor 7 and tritone as the more dissonance, while 5ths 4ths and octave the more stable.


Thanks buddy but my ear is not good, too many race tracks and Manowar gigs biggrin.gif

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MonkeyDAthos
Dec 12 2021, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 12 2021, 11:47 PM) *
Thanks buddy but my ear is not good, too many race tracks and Manowar gigs biggrin.gif

laugh.gif i can respect that.

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