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Kris-must Charm :: Audio Collaboration, GMC students and instructor collab
Kristofer Dahl
Dec 22 2014, 11:36 PM
GMC Founder
Posts: 18.745
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
QUOTE (Procyon @ Dec 22 2014, 04:41 PM) *
Thank you very much for your feedback, Darius, Kris and Cosmin - I appreciate it very much!

@ Kris: I completely agree - this type of echo is not very appropriate for this kind of soft track. Unfortunately I noticed it only after having recorded my take. So I tried to improve and recorded a second version. What do you think?

And yes - it would be more than awesome if Knopfler could sing or Slash would shred... laugh.gif biggrin.gif


Still sounds lovely. The delay time and level is still set so that I can clearly hear the snap / attack part of the your sound at least twice, but after all sound is a matter of personal preference and since you seem to gravitate towards this type of sound I can't really recommend you should change it! smile.gif

QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 22 2014, 06:03 PM) *
I love how everyone is so involved with this one.
So inspiring! smile.gif
Thanks GMCers! Keep'em coming!

Here's my new take, more right to the point and with more expression I hope.wink.gif


Hi Rhida, this take still involves faster passages and as mentioned this is when I can hear syncing problems between your right/left hand as well as some timing issues (that are most likely a result of you pushing speed). These are not things you can quickly address. If you want to fix this as fast as possible, then you should practice at least one hour per day with any kind of picking exercise - and play super relaxed far below your comfort speed. Give it a month or two and you will start to notice results that will show in collabs as well.

If you would like to improve your take for this collab - your best bet is to work on a simplified solo that has no fast sections at all.

I would suggest that with the help of Cosmin - you set one mentor thread up with the specific task to polish and simplify your take, working against the deadline.

When you are done with that, you could start a new thread where you set up monthly goals that involve improving your general technique and more specifically hand synchronization.

Please let me know if you would like to give this a shot?

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 22 2014, 10:07 PM) *
Ok folks, here's my little attempt. I'm not expecting to get in the finished article but it's all about joining in and getting feedback eh?
I've kept it simple rather than go beyond my skill level.
[attachment=40276:Crimbo_c...g_take_1.wav]

Cheers

Phil


Hi Phil, thanks so much for submitting your take. Everyone will make it to the final product.

This is a very nice, static/dreamy kind of solo. You do everything by the book with the way you build this solo, without forgetting the ever so important breathing rooms. This immediately helps elevate your take, musically.

The beginning phrases are pretty much by the book as I said, so the next step is to start thinking about those subtle details which can turn - apparently simple - phrases into heart melting music. This is not a fast thing to do, I worked for 9 months to become more aware of those subtle details in this solo. Yet I am not sure the recording turned out 'heart melting' wink.gif

And the idea was quite simple: play it over and over and try to analyse how a micro bend here, a ritardando there, softer picking etc - affects the whole thing. Once you become aware of those tiny details, you can start using them as tools - just the same way as you would use a picking vs hammer-ons etc.

If you want to try and boost your take before the deadline, I would suggest you try to get a warmer sound. This can be done with a pedal or software, or by simply adding some light overdrive/distortion on your amp and maybe turn down the treble.

Play the solo every day until the deadline - most effective will be if you can split your sessions up into 3x30 minutes per day. And spread those sessions out during the day. The idea is to practice this with full concentration, if you start thinking about other things while playing - you should stop and rest your brain (do something else).

I think you have potential to deliver something very interesting with such a strong start!

QUOTE (huargo @ Dec 22 2014, 10:13 PM) *
Uff high level here!
This is my take... or first shot smile.gif
I change the final part of the gp5 file because it was imposible to play right with my actually skills... but the new final sounds cool too... but it's not very well played yet ummm...

hope you liked!


https://soundcloud.com/david-vico-2/the-kris-must-charm-collab-huargo-mix


[attachment=40277:thekris_...tar_only.wav]


Ouch this one put a smile on my face, and you make me look silly because you showed that it's perfectly possible to pull of some intense stuff from the beginning without making any musical compromises.

I can't really recommend you to change anything, sound is beautiful to me - and you built the melody up perfectly with melodic/harmony dubs, and you save your horse power and high notes until the end which is the safest way to do it, and it works! You also introduced jazzy double (etc) stops which almsot feel like a must over this backing (figuratively speaking) now that we've heard your take.

Man this was beautiful, I would have been very proud if this was my take!

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Monica Gheorghev...
Dec 23 2014, 08:58 AM
Learning Tone Master
Posts: 2.324
Joined: 12-July 13
From: Bucharest, Romania
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2014, 05:33 PM) *
That's the wa musical life is smile.gif We get a lot of opinions from different people who not necessary agree on everything between each other smile.gif We have to choose which advices are constructive for our developement and which of those simply miss our target smile.gif

Learned lesson wink.gif But I thought is obvious what road of playing I chose and why I work only with you as instructor. My takes are always worked and approved by you before I post them.
The detailed feedback made by Kris improved my take, not change our direction and style of playing that we like. That's why I followed his advices immediately and I liked the result.
But when it's about applying things that can change dynamics, structure and interpretation that we like, I have something to say biggrin.gif

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Darius Wave
Dec 23 2014, 11:05 AM
Instructor
Posts: 5.871
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Of course Monica! I had no bad intention writting this smile.gif We do understand correctly - other point of view is always inspiring unless it's a regular internet troll biggrin.gif

Huargo - it really went nice and You've achived that Timmons mood in it smile.gif I think You should really give it some more time. You have just made Your backup version. Let's now tweak some details and give it some more time to be perfect smile.gif Some vibrated notes are not consistent in case of pitch. I would suggest to play that solo until You'll feel You don't have to spent any single milisecond on thinking where to place the finger. That state of mind will make it possible to focus 100% on the tone and dynamics performance. I don't know how about You but i think I would go a bit more for Timmons type of tone - just a little bit more distortion and brightness to add a bite to the notes You play harder. I think it would be perfect then smile.gif What do You think ?

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Huargo
Dec 23 2014, 12:37 PM
Tone Seeker
Posts: 412
Joined: 26-May 13
From: Barcelona, Spain
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 23 2014, 11:05 AM) *
Of course Monica! I had no bad intention writting this smile.gif We do understand correctly - other point of view is always inspiring unless it's a regular internet troll biggrin.gif

Huargo - it really went nice and You've achived that Timmons mood in it smile.gif I think You should really give it some more time. You have just made Your backup version. Let's now tweak some details and give it some more time to be perfect smile.gif Some vibrated notes are not consistent in case of pitch. I would suggest to play that solo until You'll feel You don't have to spent any single milisecond on thinking where to place the finger. That state of mind will make it possible to focus 100% on the tone and dynamics performance. I don't know how about You but i think I would go a bit more for Timmons type of tone - just a little bit more distortion and brightness to add a bite to the notes You play harder. I think it would be perfect then smile.gif What do You think ?



Jaja you really got me. There's somethings has to be fixed like the vibrato at 00:09 it's not in pitch and the vibrato in 00:22 is weak... the final lick still weak and the last note has to be a diferent vibrato more wider...
Totally agree with you with the tone... ireally need new strings to add more brightness and a little bit more of overdrive it will be fantastic but is very difficult deal with this kind of overdriven sound with my gear..
I try to do another take but i'm not totally shure if i can publish... the holidays start now and i don't know if i have time...

Kris thanks for your kind words smile.gif
merry christmas gmc'rs smile.gif

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Rhida
Dec 23 2014, 05:58 PM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 206
Joined: 9-July 14
So Darius

I still figure how to use reaper with the free plug-ins from Lepou and Line 6 that I put in there.

Kris I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Anyway I made a new one today with simpler melody and new sound.

So there it is.

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Monica Gheorghev...
Dec 23 2014, 09:21 PM
Learning Tone Master
Posts: 2.324
Joined: 12-July 13
From: Bucharest, Romania
@Kris: Back again with a new change over 00:26-00:27. Sorry, but I can't sleep until I will not fix everything in my take wink.gif
First idea was to make that ritardando for the whole phrase, but I succeed to manage only a "stupidando" biggrin.gif This happened because in that part I didn't heard nothing wrong and when I tried to apply the ritardando, I was out off the beat. But I come out with another solution...I changed that phrase and I think it’s more tasty in this way.

Also I know you didn’t pointed, but at 00:13- 00:14 I was a little in front of beat and I played in this way for many times. To be sure that I will not make again this mistake, I changed the accent over notes and I think was a good move because sound definitely much better and gives a more staccato feel.
What you think about how it sound now?

Attached File  Kris_Collab_Backing_Guitar.wav ( 8.7MB ) Number of downloads: 468

Attached File  Kris_Collab_Guitar.wav ( 9.34MB ) Number of downloads: 176

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Phil66
Dec 23 2014, 09:45 PM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 10.149
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
Hello everyone,

Back again, very similar, timing changed slightly on some parts, different guitar, same settings but with a touch more reverb.

[attachment=40285:Crimbo_c...g_take_2.wav]

[attachment=40286:Crimbo_c...g_take_2.wav]

Cheers

Phil

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Kristofer Dahl
Dec 23 2014, 10:19 PM
GMC Founder
Posts: 18.745
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 23 2014, 05:58 PM) *
So Darius

I still figure how to use reaper with the free plug-ins from Lepou and Line 6 that I put in there.

Kris I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Anyway I made a new one today with simpler melody and new sound.

So there it is.


Cool Rhida, I think this simpler structure is more adapted to your current technical level and therefore sounds better. However to me, a take with long sustained notes works well with a distorted sound. But this is obviously a matter of personal preference.

It's really cool to see how devoted you are, as well as all other participants who have started working with this track from day 1!

I have also started jamming a little on this track. I have also worked on tweaking a sound matching Darius/Monica's as I have always wanted to try that, and I have got decently close with an AC30 profile, some compression and touch sensitive EQ.

I have also revived my Parker guitar that had some setup problems, as it's the only guitar I have with an alnico 5 single coil in neck position (cant be sure though, it's an unspecified custom dimarzio pickup). Feels amazing to play that guitar again biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Monica Gheorghevici @ Dec 23 2014, 09:21 PM) *
@Kris: Back again with a new change over 00:26-00:27. Sorry, but I can't sleep until I will not fix everything in my take wink.gif
First idea was to make that ritardando for the whole phrase, but I succeed to manage only a "stupidando" biggrin.gif This happened because in that part I didn't heard nothing wrong and when I tried to apply the ritardando, I was out off the beat. But I come out with another solution...I changed that phrase and I think it’s more tasty in this way.

Also I know you didn’t pointed, but at 00:13- 00:14 I was a little in front of beat and I played in this way for many times. To be sure that I will not make again this mistake, I changed the accent over notes and I think was a good move because sound definitely much better and gives a more staccato feel.
What you think about how it sound now?

Attached File  Kris_Collab_Backing_Guitar.wav ( 8.7MB ) Number of downloads: 468

Attached File  Kris_Collab_Guitar.wav ( 9.34MB ) Number of downloads: 176


I think it sounds great! At this point we have started messing quite a bit with your original idea - and although it's a for a good cause we don't want to do it too much as it will kill the original feeling and spontaneity.

However what matters here is the progress we're making and (correct me if I am wrong) but you have got some new input to digest for your coming practicing.

As a longer term goal, what you could try to do is to choose one or two phrases that involve bending, and then play as many different variations on the bends (or rather variations of the phrasing of the bends). This will make sure that when you bend, you don't just think about doing a bend - but you will think about playing a specific type of bend phrasing which you have practiced. People listening will hear (either consciously or sub consciously) you meant to play that bend exactly the way you played it.

Try to phrase those bends around the beat, so that you're in complete control of the timing of them. In slower type of songs, phrasing behind the beat is just unbeatable (no pun intended).

Btw I have played stupidando a whole bunch of time as well today wink.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 23 2014, 09:45 PM) *
Hello everyone,

Back again, very similar, timing changed slightly on some parts, different guitar, same settings but with a touch more reverb.

[attachment=40285:Crimbo_c...g_take_2.wav]

[attachment=40286:Crimbo_c...g_take_2.wav]

Cheers

Phil


Thanks Phil,

The third note at 00:05 is off, I think you play it to soon. And there is an out of tune note at 00:10.

But from 00:15 I think it sounds really good. If you are inspired to keep practicing this, I would like to hear you more consciously play behind the beat as well - a bit more "relaxed". If it feels tricky, then you might want to practice some more playing on the beat - so that both your hands know exactly when they should be playing. When you have reached that point, you can try to relax things a little bit, and try to attack the notes a bit slower, try to play some passages just a tad behind the beat. I don't know if this makes sense? I personally think that these kind of details is what turns a great performance into amazing.

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Phil66
Dec 23 2014, 10:29 PM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 10.149
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 23 2014, 10:19 PM) *
Thanks Phil,

The third note at 00:05 is off, I think you play it to soon. And there is an out of tune note at 00:10.

But from 00:15 I think it sounds really good. If you are inspired to keep practicing this, I would like to hear you more consciously play behind the beat as well - a bit more "relaxed". If it feels tricky, then you might want to practice some more playing on the beat - so that both your hands know exactly when they should be playing. When you have reached that point, you can try to relax things a little bit, and try to attack the notes a bit slower, try to play some passages just a tad behind the beat. I don't know if this makes sense? I personally think that these kind of details is what turns a great performance into amazing.


Thanks Kristopher,

The note at 10:00 could be out due to too much finger pressure. I swapped from an Ibanez RG1570 to an Epiphone Les Paul and the neck felt a little slippery so I was fretting too hard. Did it sound slightly sharp to you? I do struggle to listen to the backing track closely when playing, ask Cosmin about it, we have struggled for about 100 years biggrin.gif
How was the tone for you? I prefer it to the last take.
I'll have another go tomorrow.

Cheers buddy.

Phil

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Kristofer Dahl
Dec 23 2014, 10:42 PM
GMC Founder
Posts: 18.745
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 23 2014, 10:29 PM) *
The note at 10:00 could be out due to too much finger pressure. I swapped from an Ibanez RG1570 to an Epiphone Les Paul and the neck felt a little slippery so I was fretting too hard. Did it sound slightly sharp to you?

Yes, that is most likely the reason!

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 23 2014, 10:29 PM) *
How was the tone for you? I prefer it to the last take.
I'll have another go tomorrow.


Sorry forgot to say, the tone is waay better. So much warmer, what did you do?

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Jim S.
Dec 23 2014, 11:17 PM
Learning Rock Star
Posts: 718
Joined: 7-April 13
QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Dec 21 2014, 12:27 PM) *
Hey Darius, thanks for the quick feedback!
I gotta admit that I don't really know what you mean though.
Could you be more specific as to how you'd like me to alter my take?


Darius has definitely told me the same thing too. I understand how you put time in something and hearing that it's not your best. At times I felt the same way and did not understand. I felt like that was pretty darn good for not being a pro.....

Interested to hear your take there are a few points Id like to talk about. Please take no offense as I'm just a passing through. Starting out your solo sounds promising. Tone is clear and you can tell your putting some energy behind the notes your playing but just at 11 sec there I loose interest. Same notes kind of drag on.

Intro= 16th note based arpeggio which sounds great but then stops.

At 23 sec there is a nice phrase which is unique. It also leads into a different phrase which I like. I'd try and work on taking you favorite leads from this solo and think about what your trying to say and what your actually saying. Experiment with changing the rhythmic pattern so the predictability is lessened.

I'm working on the same things too so please I'm not saying I can do it better. Keep rocking man!

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Darius Wave
Dec 23 2014, 11:29 PM
Instructor
Posts: 5.871
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Huargo - It's great to know You can spot the issues by yourself smile.gif Best challenge is to get the tone we want, from the gear we have smile.gif It takes some time but I cought myself many times bying new things (being sure I need them) and then I've realized I could do what I wanted without them. New strings will add a little brightness but mostly...they'll bring back a perfect intonation and sustain. The truth about new strings is....guitar speakers usually do cut all the treble so the actual difference bwteen new and old strings is being partly cut off by the nature of guitar speaker frequency response. Of course - it does affect the dynamics because amp do respond to how many treble it get on the input. I think


Tip - when You use neck position You have to be aware of over-filtering the tone. Usually the treble cut we use for bridge pickup is totaly different than for neck pickup. To be honest - most often I would go for natural tone of the amp and I would not do any low pass (or similar) if I play on neck position). Somehow the treble end that seems to be nasty in solo mode, makes a great job in the mix.

Jim S. - thanx for Your support. Additional point of view is very useful. Ys- it is sometimes hard oto translate Your thoughts into word, hoping You'll be understood properly smile.gif I didn point any bad things in Guitarrero take. I've only suggested he could pull out much more for this collab since I've seen what he is able to play on many other Guitarrero productions smile.gif Making things simply I| was just asking

"Man I've seen what You can do with Your instrument and I wan to have more of You in Your take" smile.gif))

QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 23 2014, 04:58 PM) *
So Darius

I still figure how to use reaper with the free plug-ins from Lepou and Line 6 that I put in there.

Kris I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Anyway I made a new one today with simpler melody and new sound.

So there it is.



Try to post your exact signal chaing (everything that happens starting from Your guitar. I'm asking because I've detected some issues with Line 6 while using it in bypass mode for other VST plug-ins. The tone was not right comparing to a true line in signal. I'm not suggesting Your tone is wrong. I just want to know to have a better imagine of Your setup and be able to help better smile.gif Tone is definitely warmer so It is an improvement smile.gif

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Phil66
Dec 23 2014, 11:50 PM
Learning Apprentice Player
Posts: 10.149
Joined: 5-July 14
From: The Black Country, England
    QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Dec 23 2014, 10:42 PM) *
    Sorry forgot to say, the tone is waay better. So much warmer, what did you do?


    Lol, I did say in my post. I swapped Ibz RG1570 for Epiphone Les Paul without stock pups and put a bit more reverb into the sound.
    cheers
    Phil

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    Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

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    Kristofer Dahl
    Dec 24 2014, 12:07 AM
    GMC Founder
    Posts: 18.745
    Joined: 15-August 05
    From: Stockholm, Sweden
    QUOTE (Phil66 @ Dec 23 2014, 11:50 PM) *


      Lol, I did say in my post. I swapped Ibz RG1570 for Epiphone Les Paul without stock pups and put a bit more reverb into the sound.
      cheers
      Phil


      Ok if that's all you did, those pickups must be vastly different from the Ibanez. Hotter and warmer I would guess (sounds just like the vacation I need btw biggrin.gif )

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      Cosmin Lupu
      Dec 24 2014, 12:09 PM
      Instructor
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      Joined: 14-June 10
      From: Bucharest
      Who else is in on this one? I see you guys are working hard and making a lot of progress smile.gif There's still plenty of time until the deadline will be upon us, so keep'em coming smile.gif

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      Beat Zbinden
      Dec 24 2014, 01:42 PM
      Experienced Tone Seeker
      Posts: 203
      Joined: 10-October 12
      From: Swizerland
      [quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Dec 21 2014, 09:34 PM' post='702883']
      Very nice! Tone/sound is great, so is melodic thread & development. Assuming you didn't come here to be just 'great', here are some ideas to give your take even more edge which could turn your take into 'amazingly awesome':

      1) I cannot help but get the impression you have squeezed in as many cool ideas you could during this short backing. Kill your darlings! Give us some breathing room. This will force you to exclude the stuff that is just "great" and go for what is truly awesome instead.

      2) To make your take truly memorable, it would be cool if you could surprise us somewhere. And from a structural perspective, a take that is 100% strong will sound even stronger if there is some contrast in it - basically you want to give the listener something to compare with (think "tension and release"). Now if you follow my advice in 1) you will have prepared the ground for this.

      So how about a short pause somewhere in there, and then play:

      - a few outside notes that lead into good sounding notes. This is easy to overdo in the beginning, but just attempting to do this will likely be very stimulating.

      - a few notes that are off rhythmically, try to play behind the beat and then catch up with it. Again not always easy to pull off, but very powerful when you master it.

      - do both of the above for an even stronger effect

      - maybe add a faster run somewhere if you are comfortable with it

      3) You could gradually build up harmonies and dubs, so that your take evolves towards a climax. This is how a lot of strong music is written. This would work well over your original take as well.



      I tried the tips of Kris implement something
      What is doable with my level ..; -)
      I think this version is slightly more dynamic and there are more options to think about.
      Thanks for the support from all of you !!!!

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      Attached File  Kris_Must_Charm_Collab_2.mp3 ( 641.25K ) Number of downloads: 162
       
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      Monica Gheorghev...
      Dec 24 2014, 02:03 PM
      Learning Tone Master
      Posts: 2.324
      Joined: 12-July 13
      From: Bucharest, Romania
      @Kris: I'm happy that we have ready the take and I like the final result smile.gif Thank you so much for your detailed feedback and fast responses. I love when we can fix things as quickly as possible and I guess it's a good thing for both of us.

      I will apply what you told me in my practice routine. I liked the idea with "phrase those bends around the beat". This will be something new because I always try to be on the beat. Hope that people will understand when I make a bend around beat, it's because this was my purpose and I have control over bends. Or I will put you to answer at my future received messages on YT (just kidding tongue.gif ) biggrin.gif Thanks again for everything smile.gif

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      This post has been edited by Monica Gheorghevici: Dec 24 2014, 02:08 PM
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      Rhida
      Dec 24 2014, 03:37 PM
      Learning Apprentice Player
      Posts: 206
      Joined: 9-July 14
      QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 23 2014, 11:29 PM) *
      Try to post your exact signal chaing (everything that happens starting from Your guitar. I'm asking because I've detected some issues with Line 6 while using it in bypass mode for other VST plug-ins. The tone was not right comparing to a true line in signal. I'm not suggesting Your tone is wrong. I just want to know to have a better imagine of Your setup and be able to help better smile.gif Tone is definitely warmer so It is an improvement smile.gif



      All right!
      Guitar right to my computer via my Tascam US-144MKII

      Using Reaper with (in that order)
      ReaEQ (Cockos)
      Pod Farm Delays
      Pod Farm Reverbs
      HyBrit (LePou plugins)

      Waiting for your suggestions mate!

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      Sensible Jones
      Dec 24 2014, 06:35 PM
      GMC:er
      Posts: 7.277
      Joined: 2-January 09
      From: London-ish. UK.
      QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Dec 24 2014, 12:09 PM) *
      Who else is in on this one? I see you guys are working hard and making a lot of progress smile.gif There's still plenty of time until the deadline will be upon us, so keep'em coming smile.gif

      I'm a bit late coming to this one but count me in!!!

      You are at GuitarMasterClass.net


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      --------------------
      I'd rather have a full Bottle in front of me than a full Frontal Lobotomy!!
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      Phil66
      Dec 24 2014, 09:39 PM
      Learning Apprentice Player
      Posts: 10.149
      Joined: 5-July 14
      From: The Black Country, England
      Ok take 3.

      I changed the double stops in the ending to single notes. What do you think?
      For the record, I was trying to aim for the solitude of Christmas for some people in the first half and the frustration that can bring on in the second half. I was thinking that it could be built by other people into a more joyous track or maybe something like this at the end as a reminder that there are lonely people out there. Thinking along the lines of Circles by Joe Satriani.

      [attachment=40290:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]
      [attachment=40291:Crimbo_c...g_take_3.wav]

      Cheers everyone.

      Phil

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      Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.

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