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> Aris's Composition & Technique Thread, for Gab's Army
Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 11 2019, 06:11 PM
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Hi Aris! Welcome back to the Army!

This thread is a follow up to this one. As you've asked by PM, we will focus on composition and technique.

Your favorite styles: punk rock, hardcore, grunge, garage - rock & Roll, garage-punk.


At first we will start building a 30' technique routine and analyize a few songs while I give you some basic theory knowledge that is important to start composing.

Could you please share 5 songs that you like a lot?


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Aris
post Feb 12 2019, 12:35 PM
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Hi Gabriel,

I mostly prefer the faster/louder stuff or at least quiet-loud stuff.
Here are the first songs that come to my mind since most recently I m trying to play or i' d like to play them on the guitar.
These are songs that I like a lot but I haven't been listening to much music lately.

1. the stooges - search & Destroy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPDeTf7qE00

2. wipers - over the edge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ6B96NyaJ4

3. Social Distortion uninvited feelings / & their solos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLyaG5kxe6M

4. the unseen - on the other side/Scream out/waste of time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owBV8m9BsCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzVe8IgpbSc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzUKRS7jWsg

5. the virus - rats in the city/my life my world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZEmQnSvcTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODMSD62fIWI

3. the rabble - reflections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXBP65QYHSY

6. Agent orange - the last goodbye/everything turns grey (solo!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6x_OWhVVhk

7. Fiddlar - stoked and broke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaacYYmDqZ0

8. Rise against - the Rise against lesson inlcludes the parts & the songs i like from this band

Also I like a lot the skate punk lesson that you have made, which feels more aggressive than most skate punk stuff. Not sure I can find something like it.

+ some Hardcore music stuff: madball etc

Thanks!
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 12 2019, 03:53 PM
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Excellent! Let's start!

These are two theory thread that you need to read:

Finding the Key of a Song
Simple Harmonies


Please read both texts and let me know if you have any question about those concepts.

Then, let's take the first song. Write down the structure, and the chords of each part.

Regarding technique. My idea is to give you a 30 minutes technique practice routine. What do you think? Do you have enough time to do it every day?




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Aris
post Feb 13 2019, 10:39 AM
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Hi Gabriel,

Thanks a lot!

I am starting tonight.
I am fine with the technique practice too smile.gif
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 13 2019, 03:19 PM
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TECHNIQUE ROUTINE 1:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Warmin...Finger-Fitness/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Progressive-Punk-Rock/


Let me know what you think!


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Aris
post Feb 14 2019, 09:50 PM
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Hi Gabriel,

The theory articles are very clear and very enlightening at the same time.
I also like your picks for the technique exercises. Especially the rhythm one is very interesting and challenging.

Below is the structure of the song in my own interpretation:

(intro riff)
(2x verse 1 riff +lead) +
(2x verse1 riff) + (2x verse 2 riff) + prechorus +
(2x verse 1 riff) + (2x verse 2 riff) + prechorus +
(2x chorus riff) + (2x verse 1 riff + solo) +
(2x verse 1 riff) + (2x verse 2 riff)+ prechorus +
(2x chorus riff) + (3x chorus riff with solos and vocals)

I have also written the chords.
For some sections I was not sure of, I have found the tab and noted the correct notes.
Below the correct notes (from tab), I have written the notes by ear (such line starts with an *)
where you can see my wrong guesses.

I am not sure how to figure out the relevant scale as well.\

Let me know if it helps.

intro:
C#5, G5, C#5

verse 1:
C#, B, E, B, A, D, C#, G, C#

verse 2:
C#5 B5 A5 B5 C#5 B5 A5 B5

E-----------------------------------------------------------
B-----------------------------------------------------------
G-6----------------------------4-----------------2---2-------------4--
D-6----6---6------------------4---4---4--------2---2----2---2---4--
A-4----6---6--------2---------2---4---4---0----0---0---2---2---2--
E------4----6--------2-------------2---2---0-------------0---0---2--
C#5 G#5 Bb7sus F#sus |B5 F#5 Esus |Am Em |F#sus

*C#5 |B5 |A5 |B5

prechorus:
F#5 A5 Em AbSus
*F#5 A5 Em B5

chorus:
Absus F#sus Esus B5
*C#5 B5 A5 B5



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 15 2019, 04:04 PM
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Hi mate, which song are you analysing?


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Aris
post Feb 17 2019, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 15 2019, 03:04 PM) *
Hi mate, which song are you analysing?


Sorry forgot to mention. It 's the first one on the list (the stooges - search & Destroy), as you proposed.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 18 2019, 01:19 PM
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Hi Aris, thanks!

The song structure is right. The key here is C#m so these are the notes from the scale:




There are some wrong chords in your transcription. For example, the intro is C#5 and F#5, not G. There are some other issues but you most of the chords are right.

From this analysis, we can get the type of structure, the fact that they are using a minor key, and you could incorporate in your vocabulary some of those progressions. The one used for the intro: I - IV, and the one used for the verse: I - VII - VI - VII.

Does this make sense?


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Aris
post Feb 19 2019, 11:56 PM
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Hi Gabriel,

Yes, it makes sense.

I have a few questions though.

Did you derive the minor tonality from the transcrption or by ear and experience?
I can't tell the minor tonality from the transcrption, since most of the chords are power chords and the minor chords that I see are related to the iii & vi chords, which are also minor in a major progression.

What are the chord progressions for prechorus and chorus?
prechorus:
F#5 A5 Em AbSus

chorus:
Absus F#sus Esus B5

Are we still in the key of C#, In prechorus & chorus?

Also, in the prechorus and chorus I see Absus, Esus & F#sus.
a. Absus, confuses me since I don't find any flat notes in the circle of fifths for C#
b. Absus & Esus, F#sus are all suspended, but both minor and major chord progression theory only have the vii chord suspended.If I m not mistaken, the vii chord in this song would be Bsus. Is theory ment to to be broken here with the rest of the suspended chords?

Should I try to apply the derived chord progressions somehow? Eg. Try to write a tune maybe?

Thanks,
A
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 21 2019, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Aris @ Feb 19 2019, 07:56 PM) *
Did you derive the minor tonality from the transcrption or by ear and experience?
I can't tell the minor tonality from the transcrption, since most of the chords are power chords and the minor chords that I see are related to the iii & vi chords, which are also minor in a major progression.



This type of punk rock songs are tricky to analyse because they are not composed thinking on tonalities, they are done by ear, in many cases by musicians that combine chords that sound good without any theory knowledge. The result is that they end up creating very rich and unexpected chord combinations that include an important use of a concept called "modal interchange" which is based on borrowing chords from parallel tonalities.

I say that this is minor only because the Iggy sings the minor third or C# in the melody. However, they also use C# major all the time. So they are switching from C# minor to C# major, or even C# mixolydian.

As I've explained previously, this is not something planned so it makes no sense to become very strict with the names or concepts here. The idea is to get the idea of the combination of chords and grades that they are using, and getting the feel that they generate.

Even when songs are played with 5th chords, it's very helpful to try the minor or major third over them to define by ear to get more information about the chord progression and possible concepts used.


Does it make sense?



QUOTE (Aris @ Feb 19 2019, 07:56 PM) *
What are the chord progressions for prechorus and chorus?
prechorus:
F#5 A5 Em AbSus

chorus:
Absus F#sus Esus B5



Pre chorus: F#5 A E Ab

chorus: C#5 - B5 - A5 - B5



QUOTE (Aris @ Feb 19 2019, 07:56 PM) *
Should I try to apply the derived chord progressions somehow? Eg. Try to write a tune maybe?


If you are already inspired, yes!! If not, we can get into another song.


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Aris
post Feb 22 2019, 11:43 PM
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Hi Gabriel,

Yes it makes sense, I see what you mean.
I ll have to try the minor third and major third over the song to see which one fits.

QUOTE
If you are already inspired, yes!! If not, we can get into another song.


Perhaps I could experiment around with those progressions, while We do another song to get more ideas.
Which one do you suggest?

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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 23 2019, 06:54 PM
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QUOTE (Aris @ Feb 22 2019, 07:43 PM) *
Hi Gabriel,

Yes it makes sense, I see what you mean.
I ll have to try the minor third and major third over the song to see which one fits.

Perhaps I could experiment around with those progressions, while We do another song to get more ideas.
Which one do you suggest?



Great! I would go for Rise Against, they have great and interesting songs..


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Aris
post Feb 23 2019, 10:25 PM
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Ok, I m thinking one of the below or both tongue.gif

Which one do you think would fit the purpose better?

rise against - injection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiGTVKuAHKA...VvkBvjZHr_YKODJ

rise against - behind closed doors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkPCb-uEjaI...VvkBvjZHr_YKODJ
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 24 2019, 05:11 PM
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Hi Aris!

Both songs are great and like "brothers" in many senses. It would be interesting to analize both to see what I mean...


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Aris
post Feb 25 2019, 12:14 PM
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Great,

It crossed my mind too, that maybe I should do both smile.gif

Thanks, I 'll let you know!
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 25 2019, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (Aris @ Feb 25 2019, 08:14 AM) *
Great,

It crossed my mind too, that maybe I should do both smile.gif

Thanks, I 'll let you know!



Excellent! smile.gif


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Aris
post Mar 14 2019, 01:03 AM
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Hi Gabriel,

It took me a while to decompose the songs since I focused more on the progressive punk rock lesson.
It has so many great techniques but my speed has to be less than 90bpm for some parts. So I am trying to isolate those and build my speed up.

About the songs, I transcribed "Rise against - injection" by ear. So I expect to have mistakes in some parts.
The structure and the chords are the following(see also attached pdf from guitar pro).

- intro (Same as chorus)
- verse: Ab
- prechorus: Eb Eb E Gb
- chorus:
B Bb Ab Gb
B Bb Ab Gb
B Bb B Db B Bb Ab Bb Gb Gb Gb Gb

- verse
- prechorus
- chorus
- postchorus: Ab Gb E6sus2 Gb E6sus2 Gb
- bridge: Ab Em Gb Em
- prechorus
- chorus
- outro (Same as chorus)


The next one "Rise Against - behind closed doors" was copied by a tab I found online.

intro
verse
chorus
verse c
chorus
bridge
chorus
outro

verse
B . . . g . . . e . . . g . B .

intro
G . A . B . D .

pre-chorus:
E F G

chorus is same as intro.

I 'll try to find out the chord progressions and let you know.
It feels that the tonality of the songs is minor since the music sounds sad rather than happy, but I ll try to check this based on theory too.

Please Let me know on your comments, if I should do something differently or check more stuff.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  rise_against___injection__transcribed_.pdf ( 392.91K ) Number of downloads: 10
 
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 16 2019, 01:49 AM
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Hi mate! Great job with the chords and the structure. The best would be to identify the tonality of each song and try to write the grade (in roman numbers) of each chord. It really helps me to understand more what's happening with the chord progressions.

Another thing that I usually do is to give some attention to vocal melodies rhythm and note choices. It's a very important part of songs and band style.



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Aris
post Mar 25 2019, 09:01 PM
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Hi Gabriel,

I 've written down the chord progressions for rise against:injection & behind closed doors.
I also tab-ed the 2nd song as I had done earlier with the first one. Attached is the tab for this one two.

To figure out the tonalities, I play scales over the songs. I also cross check the transcribed notes against the circle of fifths and go on to find the chord progression.

Please also give me your feedback on the following:
I 'd like to understand why you said that both songs are like brothers.

What is actually the purpose of figuring out the chord progressions of songs? Am I supposed to somehow memorize the feel of these chord progressions so I can use them in my own songs

One last thing. After I have found the chords it takes me huge amount of time to tab them. Do you have any suggestion on software/proper editor where I could quickly draft my transcriptions so I can save some time and focus more on the essence of things? The problem is that when I copy paste my transcriptions from notepad to our thread it looses the spaces and messes out my tab notes.


RA - injection
------------------
G# minor key

intro+verse
B A# G# F#
B A# G# F#
iii ii I vii

B A# B C# | B A# G# A# | F#
iii ii iii I | iii ii I ii | vii

verse:
G#
I

prechorus
D# D# E F#
V V vi I

chorus=same as intro

postchorus:
G# F#
I vii

bridge
G# Em F# Em
I vi vii I


Rise Against - Behind Closed doors
--------------------------------------------
Bb minor key

intro:
Bb | Gb | Eb | Gb |Ab
I | vi | IV | vi |vii

verse:
Bb | Gb | Eb | Gb Ab
I | vi | IV | vi vii

chorus
Gb | Ab | Bb | Bb Gb
vi | vii | I | I iii

Bridge:
Gb Ab | Gb Ab| Bb | Bb Ab
vi vii | vi vii| I | I vii
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Rise_Against___Behind_Closed_doors_Transcribed_.pdf ( 301.07K ) Number of downloads: 11
 
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