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GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ Jury Duty

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 12 2012, 06:50 PM

Any of you ever serve as a Juror in a case - I don't know how it works in other countries, but it's one of the duties required of American citizens. These days, some cases can last a few months - which means you get about 8 bucks a day for serving! rolleyes.gif

What kind of case did you serve, and was it interesting?

About three years ago I was Juror number 7 in a Theft case at a local Home Depot. Two persons entered Home Depot, loaded up a shopping cart with 4 leaf blowers and 3 chain saws, then exited the store thru the Garden Center emergency exit, setting off an alarm. Employees confronted the men, who stared them down with threatening gestures, then proceeded to load their stolen Cadillac with the goods.

Here's where it got fun.

The Cadillac wouldn't start. So they got out of the car and attempted a "push away". They pushed their car out of the parking lot onto a 3 lane street (35 mph zone) during commute hour, and proceeded to push for about 100 yards. A police car pulled up behind them and spoke thru their car's PA system - "pull over"!. They tried to convince the police officers to help them push the car - tried to make it look like they were just broken down and needed a push down the street. Didn't exactly fly.

The deliberation process took 2 days - we had such a fun time talking about the details of the case - at one point we laughed so loud, we were convinced the court officer was going to step into the room to tell us to shut up laugh.gif

Guilty as charged on two counts - intent to steal, and theft.

Have any good stories to share?

Chris


Posted by: Gitarrero Jan 12 2012, 06:58 PM

Sound like a fun case laugh.gif since nobody got hurt.
No jury duties in Germany, since we don't have a jury. Usually a judge will decide, though in some cases (especially when it comes to crimes committed by minors) there will be 3 additional "judges" who are regular citizens, but were trained for this task.
I know too little about the jury system to judge it in any way, but it always seemed weird to me that "regular" people get to decide whether a person is guilty or not. But again, I know to little and maybe watched a bit too much of Boston Legal...yes, and Ally McBeal too.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 12 2012, 07:07 PM

Here, there is no jury, so I can't comment on that, there are only judges, some courts have only one judge, and some have 3 to 5. I never practiced law, so can't comment on any stories, but my first neighbour was a judge are she told me quite a few crazy stories. There are all kinds of people who come there, and some of them are notorious, real beasts..

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 12 2012, 07:28 PM

No such thing in Romania either, the court is led by the judge and he alone decides what's what and who's who...but yea, stuff can go really crazy regarding people doing bad things. Just yesterday, they caught a lunatic driving needles into a girl in a bus ... :|

Posted by: Ben Higgins Jan 12 2012, 07:37 PM

They have dury duty in this country too but I've never been called up, thankfully.

That was one hell of a story, Chris !! laugh.gif

QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jan 12 2012, 05:58 PM) *
I know too little about the jury system to judge it in any way, but it always seemed weird to me that "regular" people get to decide whether a person is guilty or not.


Me too, I find it very weird.

Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jan 12 2012, 08:27 PM

hahah that was funny, asking the policemen to push the car hahahah

Here in Colombia I think we only have a judge, not really sure about the jury, will ask,

that should be interesting

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 12 2012, 08:41 PM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 12 2012, 10:37 AM) *
They have dury duty in this country too but I've never been called up, thankfully.

That was one hell of a story, Chris !! laugh.gif



Me too, I find it very weird.


Theoretically, it's to prevent a single judge from ruling based on personal preference. It would require a sizable conspiracy to judge someone based on personal dislike or personal gain.

yikes Cosmin - that's horrific!



QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jan 12 2012, 09:58 AM) *
.yes, and Ally McBeal too.


Ally McBeal <3

Posted by: Nihilist1 Jan 12 2012, 09:59 PM

I haven't had to do it yet. If I ever get to do it, however, I hope I get an awesome case. If anyone wants to watch a great movie about jury duty, there is a classic Called '12 Angry Men' that is hosted on YouTube for free. The Library of Congress deemed it worthy of putting in a time capsule to preserve for all time, so you know it is good! I will post the link below if anyone wants to see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0NlNOI5LG0

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 12 2012, 10:07 PM

QUOTE (Nihilist1 @ Jan 12 2012, 12:59 PM) *
I haven't had to do it yet. If I ever get to do it, however, I hope I get an awesome case. If anyone wants to watch a great movie about jury duty, there is a classic Called '12 Angry Men' that is hosted on YouTube for free. The Library of Congress deemed it worthy of putting in a time capsule to preserve for all time, so you know it is good! I will post the link below if anyone wants to see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0NlNOI5LG0


awesome - I'll have to check this out when I get home wink.gif

Posted by: Alex Feather Jan 13 2012, 03:20 AM

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Jan 12 2012, 05:50 PM) *
Any of you ever serve as a Juror in a case - I don't know how it works in other countries, but it's one of the duties required of American citizens. These days, some cases can last a few months - which means you get about 8 bucks a day for serving! rolleyes.gif

What kind of case did you serve, and was it interesting?

About three years ago I was Juror number 7 in a Theft case at a local Home Depot. Two persons entered Home Depot, loaded up a shopping cart with 4 leaf blowers and 3 chain saws, then exited the store thru the Garden Center emergency exit, setting off an alarm. Employees confronted the men, who stared them down with threatening gestures, then proceeded to load their stolen Cadillac with the goods.

Here's where it got fun.

The Cadillac wouldn't start. So they got out of the car and attempted a "push away". They pushed their car out of the parking lot onto a 3 lane street (35 mph zone) during commute hour, and proceeded to push for about 100 yards. A police car pulled up behind them and spoke thru their car's PA system - "pull over"!. They tried to convince the police officers to help them push the car - tried to make it look like they were just broken down and needed a push down the street. Didn't exactly fly.

The deliberation process took 2 days - we had such a fun time talking about the details of the case - at one point we laughed so loud, we were convinced the court officer was going to step into the room to tell us to shut up laugh.gif

Guilty as charged on two counts - intent to steal, and theft.

Have any good stories to share?

Chris

Sounds like a fun case!!! I live in California myself and tomorrow I will be in San Francisco and on Saturday in Folsom! Where do you live?

Posted by: Gary Jan 13 2012, 05:04 AM

I have been called for jury duty in my town at least ten times and never made it past the Voir Dire or jury selection process.

The last time I was called it was a for a murder case. The person murdered was a young man described as a good student with no gang ties. The person accused was a gang banger with gang tattoos all over his neck and arms. FYI: Wearing the requisite gang uniform (white t-shirt and baggy pants) to your murder trial is prolly not the smartest fashion decision one could make. Anyway I was eyeing him over and the next thing I knew I was excused from the room dry.gif


Gary

Posted by: JTaylor Jan 13 2012, 11:18 AM

Been called 3 times but never made it past to "the final 12". Aaaah rejection - how sweet it is! When I worked for the railroad, they would pay you for jury duty, but I got called on my day off. There are four more "people" getting ready to go to trial here in my town (the fifth has already been sentenced to life without parole) and I almost wish I would get called for one of those juries! ( The details are too horrific to even talk about but, if you're curious, you can Google the name "Seath Jackson", he was the victim.)

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 13 2012, 05:43 PM

QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Jan 12 2012, 06:20 PM) *
Sounds like a fun case!!! I live in California myself and tomorrow I will be in San Francisco and on Saturday in Folsom! Where do you live?


Alex - what brings you to the Bay Area? I'm about 40 minutes east of San Francisco - I live in Castro Valley which is between Oakland and Hayward. I'd come out to greet you but I'm stuck at work in Pleasant Hill!

QUOTE (Gary @ Jan 12 2012, 08:04 PM) *
I have been called for jury duty in my town at least ten times and never made it past the Voir Dire or jury selection process.

The last time I was called it was a for a murder case. The person murdered was a young man described as a good student with no gang ties. The person accused was a gang banger with gang tattoos all over his neck and arms. FYI: Wearing the requisite gang uniform (white t-shirt and baggy pants) to your murder trial is prolly not the smartest fashion decision one could make. Anyway I was eyeing him over and the next thing I knew I was excused from the room dry.gif


Gary


Yah - dress to impress for sure - not to look guilty. I've been called in every year for the past 10 years. Sat in the Jury Box 9 times and excused 8 times (fortunately). A couple of murder trials - I'd hate to be on one of those... those can last months!

QUOTE (JTaylor @ Jan 13 2012, 02:18 AM) *
Been called 3 times but never made it past to "the final 12". Aaaah rejection - how sweet it is! When I worked for the railroad, they would pay you for jury duty, but I got called on my day off. There are four more "people" getting ready to go to trial here in my town (the fifth has already been sentenced to life without parole) and I almost wish I would get called for one of those juries! ( The details are too horrific to even talk about but, if you're curious, you can Google the name "Seath Jackson", he was the victim.)


!!!! I know that case! Wow - that would be fascinating to sit in on, but I wouldn't wanna be in the Jury. Yikes!

Posted by: Ben Higgins Jan 13 2012, 06:07 PM

Why would somebody be 'excused' from jury duty ? Is it because they think you've said or done something innapropriate ?

Posted by: Alex Feather Jan 13 2012, 06:18 PM

[quote name='SirJamsalot' date='Jan 13 2012, 04:43 PM' post='563413']
Alex - what brings you to the Bay Area? I'm about 40 minutes east of San Francisco - I live in Castro Valley which is between Oakland and Hayward. I'd come out to greet you but I'm stuck at work in Pleasant Hill!

I am gonna play a couple of shows in San Francisco and Fresno! Maybe next time!

Posted by: Mudbone Jan 13 2012, 06:19 PM

I've been called once, but was excused before they even had a chance to interview me. One of my uncles told me the best way to get out of jury duty is to tell the interviewers that you're a hardcore racist, that way they think you're biased and won't select you biggrin.gif Never had a chance to test that method.

Posted by: Sollesnes Jan 13 2012, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 13 2012, 06:07 PM) *
Why would somebody be 'excused' from jury duty ? Is it because they think you've said or done something innapropriate ?


If you look at the accused and considers him guilty based on clothes and tattoos alone, of course you have nothing to do in a jury. Everyone has some predjuces, but it shouldn't play a role in a trial.

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 13 2012, 06:26 PM

QUOTE (Alex Feather @ Jan 13 2012, 09:18 AM) *
QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Jan 13 2012, 04:43 PM) *

Alex - what brings you to the Bay Area? I'm about 40 minutes east of San Francisco - I live in Castro Valley which is between Oakland and Hayward. I'd come out to greet you but I'm stuck at work in Pleasant Hill!


I am gonna play a couple of shows in San Francisco and Fresno! Maybe next time!



When - where?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Jan 13 2012, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (Sollesnes @ Jan 13 2012, 05:24 PM) *
If you look at the accused and considers him guilty based on clothes and tattoos alone, of course you have nothing to do in a jury. Everyone has some predjuces, but it shouldn't play a role in a trial.


Well, of course..

What I was curious about is why some of the guys said they were excused without doing or saying anything that they were aware of ?

Posted by: Mudbone Jan 13 2012, 07:31 PM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 13 2012, 01:22 PM) *
Well, of course..

What I was curious about is why some of the guys said they were excused without doing or saying anything that they were aware of ?


I think the court selects more people than they need, say 30, then when they fill the jury the rest of the people selected are excused.

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 13 2012, 07:45 PM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 13 2012, 10:22 AM) *
Well, of course..

What I was curious about is why some of the guys said they were excused without doing or saying anything that they were aware of ?


The Jury Selection process begins with a room of about 100+ people. Only 12 can sit on a trial.12 People are selected "randomly" from the 100 to sit in the Jury box for examination of prejudice. Each Jury member is asked question - the lawyers want diversity sitting in the Jury. So if there 12 males sitting in the box, 1/2 of them will be excused after being questioned, for no other reason than you can't 12 males sitting in the box. the Lawyers will dismiss people 1 at a time, and question the new replacement. They are trying to select the best candidates for their client (defense and prosecution both have a say in whether they like the candidate). If they agree on the current 12, the remaining 88 are dismissed from the room and the 12 are doomed smile.gif

The process can take up to two days. Rule of thumb is if you are selected randomly to sit in the Jury Box, your chances of having to serve increase by 80% because now instead of being chosen randomly (1/100), you now have to come up with a reason why the lawyers DON'T want you on the Jury! haha. That's where the fun begins - people coming up with lines like "I'm definitely prejudice - all people are guilty before proven innocent", or the "I'm crazy" tactic.

When I was sitting in the Box last year - I wrote down my experiences while sitting in the box. I'll paste it here for your reading pleasure biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Day 1

Well, the jury is still out. We had our first round of questioning by the prosecution to weed out the radicals. The prosecuting attorney was a real kiss-butt - you could tell he wanted to be on everyone's side. All the questions were pretty much neutral so I had nothing to set myself apart with... until.... he asked the gem! Only 2 others agreed with me that people shouldn't be suing for pain and suffering on top of recompense for damages and medical bills. Hopefully standing out like that will get me booted from the jury, but as it stands, I'm juror #9 (yep, I was called to the box - the worst place to be during jury selection). Tomorrow morning we go into the Defense counsel asking us more questions, then, hopefully, I'll hear those wonderful words - Chris Kersey, we thank you for your service - you are excused - now get out of here you intolerant - oh, sorry, wishful thinking. Tomorrow I find out whether I'm blessed with a month of Jury Duty.

Day 2
Haha. My intuition was right - the prosecution wouldn't touch me with a 10 foot bananna.

I appeared in court this morning, sat down in my little Juror #9 box seat and patiently sat as the Defense counsel started the proceedings with questions on all matters pertaining to possible bias.

Actually, just prior to the questioning, the judge made an announcement and asked whether the jurors would hold any bias against the plaintiff if he wasn't present for the duration of the actual court proceedings over the course of the month. Apparently, the plaintiff had just resumed work and needed to support his family by continuing to work. This struck a knee jerk reaction with me. During the initial interviews, I sat and watched the judge deny about a dozen requests to be excused because of hardship. Some of them, I wouldn't have even second guessed - but our judge was quite relentless in denying these excusals. As soon as he made the enquiry, I bit my lip. I almost raised my hand with the intent of saying "Your honor, I would gladly give my $15 dollar a day wage to him if that would help his hardship so he can join us for the trial." But a little bird told me I better zip my lip because this judge might hold me in contempt. I'm sure the other jurors were thinking along the same lines though.

So the questioning began. I was singled out based on my answer from the previous day for further cross-examination.

"Mr. Kersey, you said yesterday that you were hesitant about giving a verdict because you thought givng a pain and suffering award was improper?"

"Yes mam."

"Can you please enlighten me a little more on your position. As you know, this case involves the plaintiff's lawsuit for both damages, medical compensation and pain and suffering. If it can be shown that the plaintiff's case is supported, and he is found to be the victim, are you saying that you would not be able to support a verdict in his favor?"

"That is correct. I don't know how exactly the lawsuit has been filed, and what exactly the verdict would entail, but I can give you what I would and would not be able to give a verdict on."

"o.k."

"If the lawsuit were formed in such a way that one verdict awards recompense for medical, even if those medical bills amount to a lifetime's worth of support, and damanges on the one hand - and then on the other hand a second verdict was proposed to award the plaintiff recompense for pain and suffering, I would have no reservations serving on the jury. The reason is simple - I could vote my conscience on both accounts - yes to damages done and medical, and no for pain and suffering.

However, if the verdict we are to judge upon combines both awards, then I would not be able to award the plaintiff because the second element goes against my convictions. I cannot, in good conscience, say yes to something I hold to be wrong, even if it includes something that is right."

"So you would vote no?"

"I would not be able to vote yes in good conscience"

"But you could still vote yes, against your conscience."

[slowly]
"I would not be able to vote yes in good conscience, therefore, NO." Again, I bit my lip even though what I was thinking I thought was funny - believe me, it's hard to hold back a jab when it's a funny one - I was thinking to myself "that is correct m'am - I would make a terrible politician."

A confused look fell over her face as she stepped back to her podium as she said "thank you Mr. Kersey". She proceeded then to question the rest of the jury.

I started thinking to myself, can a man hold fire to himself and not be burned? Can a man drink a glass of water, half of which is poison, and not suffer the consequences? She was asking me to do just that.

About 1/2 hour passed and the judge called the attorneys back into a private room to discuss jurors. Another 10 minutes passed, and they came back out to the floor. The judge sat down and stated - "we would like to thank the jurors for their patience. It is at this point that we will announce replacements for jurors who will be excused. For those being excused, please don't take your excusal personally as per my opening statements on process on Monday.

The court would like to thank and dismiss Chris Kersey.

I was quite pleased knowing that I wouldn't have to serve a month on a jury. And so was juror number 6 who followed me out the door, also having been dismissed. He looked at me and said "Thank G**." Then he looked to me as we walked to the elevator and raised his hand for a high-five. I wasn't thrilled about giving anyone a high-five over that dismissal, but I didn't want to "leave him hangin". I'm sure you can relate.

Posted by: fkalich Jan 13 2012, 10:21 PM

In the long run, I will take my fate being decided by my fellow citizens over public officials. It is a bad assumption to think that social/economic conditions tomorrow will be similar to the way things are today. Recent (20th century) history has demonstrated that in hard times people start accepting things previously unimaginable. I prefer to keep the safeguards in place, even if they are less efficient in stable times.

QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Jan 12 2012, 12:58 PM) *
I know too little about the jury system to judge it in any way, but it always seemed weird to me that "regular" people get to decide whether a person is guilty or not. But again, I know to little and maybe watched a bit too much of Boston Legal...yes, and Ally McBeal too.

Posted by: JTaylor Jan 14 2012, 12:06 AM

QUOTE (SirJamsalot @ Jan 13 2012, 04:43 PM) *
!!!! I know that case! Wow - that would be fascinating to sit in on, but I wouldn't wanna be in the Jury. Yikes!


Actually, I have to take back what I said. I don't think I would want to serve on it but only because the newspaper account was bad enough. I can only imagine the details that will come out in court. I doubt it will take very long. With the defendant who has already been sentenced, the jury only deliberated one and a half hours!

On another note, this absolutely kills me: When you go in for jury selection, there are ALWAYS retirees sitting in the back of the room because it's something they like. Yet, they are not required to serve (because of their age)! In my county, I believe doctors and lawyers are also exempt if they choose. However, if money is the reason you are asking for an exemption, you will be denied.

Posted by: thefireball Jan 14 2012, 01:36 AM

I have never been called for jury duty. Not yet anyway...

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 14 2012, 02:27 AM

QUOTE (thefireball @ Jan 13 2012, 04:36 PM) *
I have never been called for jury duty. Not yet anyway...




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