Your Thoughts Please Options

[Phil66]

I know there are no shortcuts but there are various methods. What are your thoughts on THIS, or have you m got any methods to help. I find it very difficult to memorise.

Thanks for looking

Phil

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

I have never really used any books or similar to memorize the fretboard. What worked for me was finding backing tracks in various keys and jamming over them and actively forcing yourself out of your comfort zone. Say if you know a certain shape or position try not to play that too much, or try and work within the shapes that are connected a position up or down from what you know.

I know that's probably bad advice, but it's what worked for me in regards to getting to know the fretboard better.

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[Phil66]

Thanks Ben,

Do you think having a decent ear helped you doing it that way? I've tried various ways but I don't have a brain for remembering things like a fretboard.

I guess ultimately one needs to know the intervals of the scale one is using and the various options to go from the note one is on to the hours one what's to put next. I find it pretty complex to be honest.

Cheers

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[Mertay]

...

You are asking for jamming, lets assume you get to be as powerful as computer I don't think it will be much help to play/find melody.

I also don't think you're "that" bad on finding notes on the keyboard or even anything guitar related.

My general basic advice (regarding for the ear thing) is to sing (better is outloud) a melody to a backing track first. Just a basic melody, write it down as tab if needed then play that with the guitar.

Vocal also helps us to not go out of a certain range, as to me willingly stick to a certain octave with-in a scale/fretboard area is better for pushing that creativity thing.

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[Phil66]

Thanks Mertay,

So it's more about ear training and knowing which notes are in the key you're in? But then you still need fretboard knowledge. And then there are people that say "there are no wrong notes".

Cheers

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[Todd Simpson]

The more ear training the better Soloing over anything, and I mean anything musical will help. Backings, shows with music, spotify etc. Start with a scale you know and just add notes. Keep the scale you are working in visible. E.G. Use the scale generator here at gmc to map the entire neck and then add some notes to the first familiar shape like the blues scale. The best way to "memorize the fretboard" imho is to do it physically by playing some improve in an easy key like A using a simple scale like the blues scale and looking at the neck map chart from the generator. You will retain the notes you add through simple repetition. There are many ways to go about this. That's the way that worked for me

Thanks Mertay,

So it's more about ear training and knowing which notes are in the key you're in? But then you still need fretboard knowledge. And then there are people that say "there are no wrong notes".

Cheers

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[Phil66]

I'm currently trying an app, there are lessons and challenges in a game style format which might help as well as playing

Thanks for everyone's input.

Phil

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[Mertay]

...

My education background is a bit un-typical. I had very strong ear training, theory and techniqe but jamming is something I learned very late (a time-culture thing).

So although I had every "technical knowledge" needed, when I started jamming I went up and down scales like pretty much everybody my shortcut to breaking that was connected to my "older" age. The experience of feeling music;

So open a backing track and forget guitar for a moment and just listen like a song...get a feeling o it. Then develop a melody mirroring that feeling, it doesn't matter if 2-3 notes/bends or a complete sentence as a melody. Then pickup the guitar and play that melody.

Its as if you composed the backing track, then composing a melody to it. Do that for a while and I believe quickly those melodies will come out faster and soon after you will need less pre-sing or thinking before you play the guitar. Goal is "singing" only using the guitar in the end

From there scale shapes helps me more than quick note finding, this is were the scale exercises help (not the first thing like we all did but the last thing). So say while I jam I couldn't find the rest of the melody in my head, I hit a note nearing that scale position for influence to not get stuck musically.

The fast stuff I'll play are always stuff I already know but scale-based fitting to the backing track. I usually don't even think about them, just play that part fast with a riff I'm most familiar.

Finally, I still make A LOT of mistakes when I jam. Cause I compose melodies on the fly "honestly" and it still is extremely tiring cause I also try to evolve to better melodies at that moment. It's very rare you'll see someone jam like that in public, these practices are usually done when alone. So be careful not to set unrealistic goal either, a jam you watch on youtube etc. is usually nothing new for the player performing it.

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This post has been edited by Mertay: Dec 8 2019, 09:42 PM

[Phil66]

Thanks for the insight Mertay. When I do the collabs, I usually do them very quickly, I listen to the backing a few times and then BOOM, lay down the take. I find if I don't do it straight away, the takes that "develop" from trying to improve the first idea seem to lose some intensity somehow. Maybe I'm thinking I should be able to do that for a long time over backing and as you set, it might be unrealistic for my level.

Cheers buddy.

Phil

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[Mertay]

Thanks for the insight Mertay. When I do the collabs, I usually do them very quickly, I listen to the backing a few times and then BOOM, lay down the take. I find if I don't do it straight away, the takes that "develop" from trying to improve the first idea seem to lose some intensity somehow. Maybe I'm thinking I should be able to do that for a long time over backing and as you set, it might be unrealistic for my level.

Cheers buddy.

Phil

Collab. working is different, you have a deadline and this has a routine. Take my notes as for free time (personal) jamming, you could even download a track, make reaper project and develop a jam on it on a long run as a personal challenge.

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[Phil66]

Cheers

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[Todd Simpson]

I really wish we got to see you play more mertay. You've always got great posts! Love to see more vids of you on the axe. Do you have a youtube channel btw? I've subbed to most folks who have already shared theirs. Or an Instagram? Some folks skip youtube these days and just do gram vids with a cell phone which works fine too.

My education background is a bit un-typical. I had very strong ear training, theory and techniqe but jamming is something I learned very late (a time-culture thing).

So although I had every "technical knowledge" needed, when I started jamming I went up and down scales like pretty much everybody my shortcut to breaking that was connected to my "older" age. The experience of feeling music;

So open a backing track and forget guitar for a moment and just listen like a song...get a feeling o it. Then develop a melody mirroring that feeling, it doesn't matter if 2-3 notes/bends or a complete sentence as a melody. Then pickup the guitar and play that melody.

Its as if you composed the backing track, then composing a melody to it. Do that for a while and I believe quickly those melodies will come out faster and soon after you will need less pre-sing or thinking before you play the guitar. Goal is "singing" only using the guitar in the end

From there scale shapes helps me more than quick note finding, this is were the scale exercises help (not the first thing like we all did but the last thing). So say while I jam I couldn't find the rest of the melody in my head, I hit a note nearing that scale position for influence to not get stuck musically.

The fast stuff I'll play are always stuff I already know but scale-based fitting to the backing track. I usually don't even think about them, just play that part fast with a riff I'm most familiar.

Finally, I still make A LOT of mistakes when I jam. Cause I compose melodies on the fly "honestly" and it still is extremely tiring cause I also try to evolve to better melodies at that moment. It's very rare you'll see someone jam like that in public, these practices are usually done when alone. So be careful not to set unrealistic goal either, a jam you watch on youtube etc. is usually nothing new for the player performing it.

You are at GuitarMasterClass.net

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[Mertay]

I really wish we got to see you play more mertay. You've always got great posts! Love to see more vids of you on the axe. Do you have a youtube channel btw? I've subbed to most folks who have already shared theirs. Or an Instagram? Some folks skip youtube these days and just do gram vids with a cell phone which works fine too.

Thanks!

unfortunately no, I can't think myself not playing guitar (even teach guitar locally, nothing big just a few private lessons) but I earn my money doing multiple stuff and never see myself as a true guitarist. This week for example I barely touched the guitar aside testing a japanese AZ ibanez and the new Katana MK2 at a store with a friend, but next week hopefully I'll have plenty of time like I did last week...I just don't have the focus of the guys doing social media guitar stuff (or much interest in social media either).

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[Todd Simpson]

Skip social media, I was mostly thinking about gmc. youtube is handy as it lets you embed posts here. We just don't get to see you play much. Even recording the tests at the music store on a cell phone would be cool.

Thanks!

unfortunately no, I can't think myself not playing guitar (even teach guitar locally, nothing big just a few private lessons) but I earn my money doing multiple stuff and never see myself as a true guitarist. This week for example I barely touched the guitar aside testing a japanese AZ ibanez and the new Katana MK2 at a store with a friend, but next week hopefully I'll have plenty of time like I did last week...I just don't have the focus of the guys doing social media guitar stuff (or much interest in social media either).

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[Arpeggio]

Learn the notes of the fret-board in 24 hours? At 24 frets with 6 strings that's 144 note locations.

I once worked in Aldi before they had bar codes and had to learn the prices of 700 different products in 3 days. I got to 300 in 2 days ........then quit! Sausages £2.99, Muesli 500g £1.45, Syrup 80p NO THANKS!!!

I do lots of stuff for fret-board note learning like 1 note per string chromatic scale and much more. Learning the notes of the fret-board can depend on definition too I guess. Do you want to be able to work out any note on the fret-board within 5 seconds, sometimes referring to other notes you already know to work your way up or down to the one needed? or do you want to know any random note name anywhere on the fret-board in less than 0.1 seconds.

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[Phil66]

Learn the notes of the fret-board in 24 hours? At 24 frets with 6 strings that's 144 note locations.

I once worked in Aldi before they had bar codes and had to learn the prices of 700 different products in 3 days. I got to 300 in 2 days ........then quit! Sausages £2.99, Muesli 500g £1.45, Syrup 80p NO THANKS!!!

I do lots of stuff for fret-board note learning like 1 note per string chromatic scale and much more. Learning the notes of the fret-board can depend on definition too I guess. Do you want to be able to work out any note on the fret-board within 5 seconds, sometimes referring to other notes you already know to work your way up or down to the one needed? or do you want to know any random note name anywhere on the fret-board in less than 0.1 seconds.

I don't really know I suppose I'd like to understand the fretboard more, which I guess involves knowing the scales even more so that I can know where I am and where to go to get what I want, if that makes sense?

Cheers

Phil

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[Todd Simpson]

Makes perfect sense. I have seen you make progress on this but I know it's slow going. Taking it one note out from the main scale pattern using the scale generator is a good start. Just always makes you are in the right key!

I don't really know I suppose I'd like to understand the fretboard more, which I guess involves knowing the scales even more so that I can know where I am and where to go to get what I want, if that makes sense?

Cheers

Phil

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[klasaine]

Here's how I did it (this was a long time ago) ...

I memorized the 6th (low E) and 5th (low A) strings up to the 12th fret. Dots first then the frets between the dots.
This was instantly beneficial because it helped me to be able to find and name power chords and barre chords.
*Bonus - when you you know the 6th string you know the first string.

Then I figured out how to find the octaves from the 6th and 5th strings to the 4th and 3rd strings respectively.

All that's left now is the 2nd string.

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[Phil66]

Here's how I did it (this was a long time ago) ...

I memorized the 6th (low E) and 5th (low A) strings up to the 12th fret. Dots first then the frets between the dots.
This was instantly beneficial because it helped me to be able to find and name power chords and barre chords.
*Bonus - when you you know the 6th string you know the first string.

Then I figured out how to find the octaves from the 6th and 5th strings to the 4th and 3rd strings respectively.

All that's left now is the 2nd string.

Thanks Ken,

A lot of it is being able to think on the fly and beyond that being so familiar with it that you don't really need to think. It's all down to paying attention and over time it will stick in one's head.

Cheers

Phil

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