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Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 10 2008, 06:10 PM

Hi,

I need to buy some stuffs. I'm in a (beginner) band playing Cranberries, Oasis, ACDC, Kravitz, Beatles, Stones ... classics. Original songs will come later

We are going to rent a new local, with no gear in it.

I am guitarist and I need an amp and above all, I need to be heard in the mix

I was about to buy a Fender Super Champ xd, a 15W tube amp with full lamp and a DSP canal. But I wonder if it is powerful enough to play with battery, bass and singer. I can add a 2x12 cab like the Harley Benton 2x12 Vintage (with 2 Celestion V30). All this for 500€.

Is it enough ?

Posted by: Goliath Jan 10 2008, 06:21 PM

if your'e really worried about being heard I'm guessing you're not going to be mic'd. If you're not going to be mic'd, you'll probably want to get a 50w 2x12 combo. That should be more than enough to make you cut through the mix. 15w w/ cab, maybe, 15w mic'd, sure.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 10 2008, 06:22 PM

Depends on the other band members amps. If the bassist has a 400W bass amp you need a 100W guitar amp. If the bassist has a 60W bass amp you'd probs be fine with 15W.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 10 2008, 06:40 PM

Hmm, 15W is not loud enough, no matter what cabinet you plug on it, it will still deliver 15W. 40W all tube or 50W hybrid needed for rehearsals.

Posted by: Bogdan Jan 10 2008, 11:23 PM

Buy something louder because you don't know if all the time you are going to be mic-ed or not..

Posted by: Hisham Jan 10 2008, 11:33 PM

you need minmum 100 WATTs to hear you r guitar between drums and bass guitar

Posted by: Muris Jan 11 2008, 02:13 AM

Rocking type ha?

I run my Mesa on 50% all the time and it delivers 2 x 90 watts,
around 45-50 watts per speaker.
And it's pretty loud,even with full acoustic drum kit next to me.

Posted by: PlayAllDay Jan 11 2008, 02:26 AM

My 40 watt Fender Hotrod Deluxe is plenty loud for a band. My bass player played really loud (swearword) but the good old Hotrod cut through no probs.

Posted by: MickeM Jan 11 2008, 09:16 AM

Some drummers are really noisy too.
I've managed to make myself heard in a band both with 50W and 100W amps. My 30W is fine most of the time but the times we max out it's someimes drowning. I think 15W is a gamble...

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 11 2008, 11:19 AM

I'm talking about 15W for a tube amp ! 100W tube amps seems really really overpowered for my use. We only plays in a local, no scene nor club (not yet ).

I was playing on a Peavy Bandit Transtube which is a 80W solidstate and I can play with the band with volume on 3 to 5 (depending if I want clean or crunch).

50W tube amps seems overpowered too for me. I will never turn volume over 2 or 3 and we need to push volume to hear tube working.


I was thinking to find an amp between 15W and 30W, 40W maximum. And the Fender Super Champ xD pleased me very much. But if 15W is not enough, I will test Classic 30, AC30 or a Fender Hot Rod. But it is not the same prices ...

Posted by: Smells Jan 11 2008, 11:27 AM

I think the 15watt as MickeM said is a gamble, I agree with the others that probably 50watt as a minimum, you may only be turning up the amp a little but you`ll not be driving the amp hard.

Many years ago I used a 30watt amp in my band, it was constantly turned up to 10, eventually it just blew, sure it was a nasty cheap thing, but with the extra power you`ll always have a reliable amp, plus you`ll not be overdriving the amp keeping its clean tones all the time as well.

You can always turn down, but if its as loud as it will go you can never turn up, plus if you carry on and play any gigs etc you`ll always have an amp capable of anything, save yourself some money in the long run.

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 11 2008, 11:30 AM

I don't understand because if I put a 30W tube amp at volume 10, my ears just bleed and my mates crawl outside the room before they die We don't play metal or hardcore, just blues/rock/pop.

Posted by: Smells Jan 11 2008, 11:40 AM

yes I agree, but our drummer makes my ears bleed, we`ve told him to use drum sticks and not hammers but it doesnt make any difference its just payback

i think you`ve made your mind up on the 15watt by the sounds of it, if you think it`ll do the job then go for it

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 11 2008, 11:44 AM

To be honest, if Fender had a 25W-30W "Mega Champ" , it would be it ...

I'll test again tomorrow.

Posted by: KRmachine Jan 11 2008, 12:45 PM

From what I've heard, tube amps usually sound louder than a solid state amp at the same wattage. You'll probably be louder with a 30W all tube amp than a 50W solid state amp.

Posted by: JVM Jan 11 2008, 12:51 PM

+1! I use my deluxe at least once a week in a rehearsal situation and it is always plenty loud enough. Playallday, I just recently got a boss NS-2 noise supressor, might i suggest you look into one for your hot rod? I don't know if ours are exactly the same... Mine's a mid 90's made in america one but it still gets unacceptable hum on the more drive channel when turned up. Plugged the boss to have the send->return going through the effects loop (preamp out, poweramp in) for the hot rod and now I have next to no hum even with the more drive up, its pretty amazing. Definite improvement anyway,

Posted by: PlayAllDay Jan 11 2008, 01:05 PM

Thanks JVM - i don't use that channel for ages - unacceptable hum is one of the reasons yes. Do you notice any difference in your tone from using the NS-2? I have been considering getting one.
Currently I use pedals or Boss GT-8 patches for my drive tones.
Thanks very much for the input

Posted by: Goliath Jan 11 2008, 01:28 PM

I'd look down the line, if you do start gigging in larger/louder venues (big bars, etc) in the future, you're going to need that extra wattage and have to come out of pocket again for another louder amp, or you can go the extra mile now when the amp is probably as cheap as it's ever going to be and be prepared when that time comes.

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 14 2008, 04:28 PM

Indeed, Super Champ XD 15W was not enough loud with clean sound in a band. But i confirm that 15W tube are far enough for a band with overdrive/crunch sound ! Just try the Orange Tiny Terror ! Amazing.

I bought a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe "Emerald", 40W tube with an HP Celestion V30. Volume 3 and everyone is stuck to the walls But too loud to play at home.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2008, 04:36 PM

Christ. I play a 100W fully tube Marshall JCM800 half stack. AND I use a gain boost pedal lol. Am I deaf? We are always told we are one of the loudest bands but I thought people were joking

Possibly they weren't

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Jan 14 2008, 05:29 PM

I Love the Peavy Bandit It's a beautiful amp to start, loud enough to cut even with a very powerful drummer

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 14 2008, 05:34 PM

I used to play on a Peavy Bandit and I didn't like it. Very cold clean sound. That's why I wanted to buy a tube amp. But it was loud, for sure But as loud as a 15W tube amp.

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Jan 14 2008, 05:37 PM

I'm Sure you didn't played it long enough to dig in an find a good setting, Is the most versatile non tube/transtube amp I've ever heard, the vintage setting was very warm and fat ideal for soloing...right now I don't remember I Liked the clean channel, anyway it's a matter of taste

Joe kataldo

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 14 2008, 05:43 PM

Sure, it's a matter of taste and I can understand that some peoples likes the Bandit.

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Jan 14 2008, 06:03 PM

Just so you know...out there there are two or three versions, maybe we didn't tried the same :-D

Posted by: ZeCoyote Jan 14 2008, 06:05 PM

It was a Peavey Bandit Transtube 112.

Posted by: Goliath Jan 14 2008, 06:27 PM

I have a Peavey Bandit 112 w/ Transitube Technology.

It's garbage. Straight up trash. I can't get any sounds I like out of it and it sounds like there's a sock or something over the speaker. The overdriven stuff sounds sterile and muffled, the clean stuff is very "cold" that's a good word for it.

For clarification, mine looks like this:



and it's a decent practice amp, I guess, but the tone lacks horribly next to it's tube brethren. I paid 300$ for it in '97. I'm hoping your bandit is a different make, because I can't imagine anything pleasing coming through that speaker.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Jan 14 2008, 08:38 PM

I've tried the newer model, it had some nice vintage sounding emulations drive, but clean is too dark and muddy. Don't like it.

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Jan 14 2008, 09:47 PM

It's not the one in the picture, as I said there are 3 different version
The first is the one I've tried, the latter is the original...it's better, a really beautiful sounding amp

Posted by: TortillaShred Jan 15 2008, 08:30 PM

Since you're in Europe you owe it to yourself to look at the Laney VC30, 30 watts class A all tube, more than enough to cut through in your genre. Great amp and great value over there. You might also want a digitech bad monkey overdrive to push some more gain, very nice OD for a very nice price.

http://www.imuso.co.uk/ProductDetail.asp?StockCode=EG00086
http://www.thomann.de/gb/digitech_bad_monkey.htm

If the VC30 is over budget then don't be afraid to go used, ebay ftw. Or just save up. Anyways go ahead and try it at a store.

Posted by: JVM Jan 15 2008, 08:51 PM

There might be a slight difference but if there is I can't detect it. It sounds really great IMO. You will still get a small amount of hum when you really crank it, but it's definitely reasonable. I say go for it

Posted by: shammy Jan 15 2008, 11:25 PM

One thing I have to agree on is, buy now thinking of the future. I don't know how hard it is to unload amps where you live but here where I live I have had so many little amp's over the years and couldn't sell them. There are so many used amps on the market nobody wants them anymore, especially with the influx of line 6 and new fenders that can be had with effects onboard. Trade in's are almost exstinct because they know they will not sell over new amps at lower prices. Go with your ears and some common sense and you'll be fine. Only you know what is really loud enough for what you are doing venue wise and only you know what sound your after. Good luck


Edit-personally the Line 6 tube amp's by bogner are sick, 40 watt model is deafening and can be played for practice also