What Defines Genre |
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Jan 22 2020, 07:39 PM
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Hello folks,
Back in the day I could tell a country track instantly, I don't mean country and western, just country, it had a certain twang, something I couldn't put my finger on but I knew it was country. I was listening to a "country hour" on the radio the other day, I seriously wouldn't have known it was country of the presenter hadn't said "and that was blah blah riding high in the country charts at the moment". It must sounded like pop music to me, it's it me or is country getting diluted? I'm not a huge country fan, I like Little Big Church and John Prine and a few others but this new stuff is so feeble IMHO. What you reckon? This post has been edited by Phil66: Jan 30 2020, 07:12 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE  “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 22 2020, 10:31 PM
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When this video started I was expecting a pop song...or porn lol!
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Jan 23 2020, 05:49 AM
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But what actually defines it as "country music". In my mind, one shouldn't need to be told by a radio presenter that a certain track is country, one should know straight away, or do they just call it country if a country artist creates a disco song?
A local presenter played a new "country" song to fellow presenter Pete Waterman, now Pete knows a thing or two about music, after hearing it, Pete said, "That ain't country, it's a pop song but a country artist" he didn't go into detail but he ended up saying that it could be played to any audience and nobody would recognise it as a country track. So, bottom line, how does the industry, these days, define country music and if there are any country fans here, are there any "country" tracks that they've heard recently that they would not class as country? -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 23 2020, 09:52 AM
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Yeah I wish I could remember it. I bet if you listen to any current "top 20 country" list, there would be some you wouldn't identify as having that country sound. There was always something, like the slide guitar, the slight yodel in the voice, that certain something that made you just know it was country.
I'll try to find something when I get chance. -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 23 2020, 10:01 PM
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In terms of saying what sort of music a given track is, the industry uses a very simple metric. Would people who usually buy a given sort of music buy this sort as well. Is it close enough that we can call it a given "genre" without landing in the fudge over it.
E.G. Can we call this given track, "Country", even though it really doesn't sound very country? well, if the record label thinks it will appeal to a "Country" audience, or people that have bought country records previously, then yeah, they might call it that. Even though it barely qualifies. Also, a given track may 'cross over" and land in other charts as well. For example, a song can chart in the Country chart and also chart in Top 40 which is considered "Pop" though a lot of it is R&B and Hip Hop. Here is a Justin Bieber tune (along with another artist, it's a collab) that is charting under "Country" though it sounds like a blend of Hip Hop/Pop/R&B with a bit of "Country" flavor. https://www.billboard.com/charts/country-songs . QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 23 2020, 12:49 AM)  But what actually defines it as "country music". In my mind, one shouldn't need to be told by a radio presenter that a certain track is country, one should know straight away, or do they just call it country if a country artist creates a disco song?
A local presenter played a new "country" song to fellow presenter Pete Waterman, now Pete knows a thing or two about music, after hearing it, Pete said, "That ain't country, it's a pop song but a country artist" he didn't go into detail but he ended up saying that it could be played to any audience and nobody would recognise it as a country track. So, bottom line, how does the industry, these days, define country music and if there are any country fans here, are there any "country" tracks that they've heard recently that they would not class as country? This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jan 23 2020, 10:10 PM |
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Jan 28 2020, 08:59 PM
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Okay, here's one that just doesn't sound country to me. Educate me please.
https://youtu.be/gvPMVKUI9go -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 29 2020, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jan 28 2020, 08:28 PM) All it really takes for something to be considered country and end up on country charts is that people that listen to country music stations and country music like it or not and if it is popular among those listeners. So technically Cemetery Gates could be classed as country if enough country fans liked it? This is what I don't like about the music industry, any way they can spin something to get money. It's like when I was teenager, the indie charts had any type of music in but the label had to be independent, often running from someone's back room at home, ie, just a label, so you'd have reggae, punk, rock etc all in the same indie chart, then indie somehow became a style of music. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for evolution but sometimes the boundaries get pushed too far. -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 29 2020, 11:12 AM
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Country Music has always changed with the times more than many other genres. There is a good book called Are You Ready For The Country that tracks it from the beginnings of The Carter Family through Hank Williams, the Chet Atkins produced years in the 60s, touching on the country rock and outlaw country of the 70s, the New Traditionalists of the 80s, and the Garth Brooks style country and the rebelling Alternative Country of the 90s.
We now seem to be in a very pop or 80s rock with a twang era with some rapping thrown in, and a lot less pedal steel and chicken picking. There is still good stuff around if you dig about and don't just listen to what is just put on show. -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Jan 29 2020, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Jan 29 2020, 10:12 AM) There is still good stuff around if you dig about and don't just listen to what is just put on show. It's the kind of music I'd buy a "best of country" album but I wouldn't risk it now. Don't get me wrong, I do like some of the modern "country", I just don't identify it as country. One of my favourite "country" tracks is this, which I guess is pushing the boundary but it does have a country vibe. https://youtu.be/BpQTqF8Xs3E CHeers -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Jan 29 2020, 03:59 PM
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Try out
John Moreland (singer songwriter type) Willy Clay band (these guys are Swedish, I'd never have guessed) The Wild Feathers (a little more country rock) If you want more traditional sounding country let me know This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Jan 29 2020, 04:08 PM -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Jan 29 2020, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jan 28 2020, 10:17 PM) So technically Cemetery Gates could be classed as country if enough country fans liked it? This is what I don't like about the music industry, any way they can spin something to get money. It's like when I was teenager, the indie charts had any type of music in but the label had to be independent, often running from someone's back room at home, ie, just a label, so you'd have reggae, punk, rock etc all in the same indie chart, then indie somehow became a style of music. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for evolution but sometimes the boundaries get pushed too far. Well yes, I suppose so. Let the fans decide. At least that is what many believe it should be like but some folks disagree. I guess you could call them purists. Getting back to the example of Lil Nas X and his hit "Old Town Road." As I said before, it created quite a stir in the country music world and with Billboard. The version with Billy Ray Cyrus is actually a remix and was a response to Billboards removal of the song from the country charts because they felt that the song did not have enough of the necessary elements to be considered "Country Music". Billy Ray spoke out and said that he believed that the song did indeed have the elements that make it country and then went a step further and contacted Lil Nas X and offered to remix the song with him to make it more country so to speak (maybe just because it would now feature a known country artist) which they did and released it on a major label. Consequently, that song set a record for the longest run in history on Billboards top 100 chart which was 19 weeks. Not the country charts, but still, not too shabby. Anyway, it seems that sometimes there are elements required to fit a certain genre and sometimes it's more about popularity with the listeners. At any rate, whether or not the song stayed on the country charts, it has received quite a bit of airplay on country music radio. Maybe as much or more play there than on stations that play pop music. Original mix Remix with Billy Ray Cyrus Story here https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/billboard-d...ry-removal.html And more here https://www.complex.com/music/2019/04/lil-n...dio-music-chart This post has been edited by AK Rich: Jan 29 2020, 11:18 PM |
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Jan 29 2020, 11:32 PM
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I didn't know it was pulled off chart and didn't know the cyrus version was a remix. Great move by billy ray to get on the charts again and then be featured in the Grammy performance as well. Gotta hand it to him for having the wit for seeing it. The original track does have a bit of a country vibe but not much. It charted well as the same folks that buy country music also like Rap which would have seemed odd not so long ago. Billboard seems to have had more of an issue than the average listener did.
I must admit I didn't see the korean boy band joining in until the vid. BTS has very very very little to do with country music. But as has been mentioned, anything country fans like can chart, at least for a while, in the country charts. The barriers between genres have gotten very blurred as the music industry tries to survive the switch to streaming. The biz itself is only a fraction of what it was during the crazy CD days when folks would pay almost $20 for a piece of plastic with music on it  Value Added Plastic! These days it's value added Data/stream. Most folks have a spotify account and that's about it for spending. Not everybody of course. But a lot.QUOTE (AK Rich @ Jan 29 2020, 04:23 PM) Well yes, I suppose so. Let the fans decide. At least that is what many believe it should be like but some folks disagree. I guess you could call them purists. Getting back to the example of Lil Nas X and his hit "Old Town Road." As I said before, it created quite a stir in the country music world and with Billboard. The version with Billy Ray Cyrus is actually a remix and was a response to Billboards removal of the song from the country charts because they felt that the song did not have enough of the necessary elements to be considered "Country Music".
Billy Ray spoke out and said that he believed that the song did indeed have the elements that make it country and then went a step further and contacted Lil Nas X and offered to remix the song with him to make it more country so to speak (maybe just because it would now feature a known country artist) which they did and released it on a major label. Consequently, that song set a record for the longest run in history on Billboards top 100 chart which was 19 weeks. Not the country charts, but still, not too shabby. Anyway, it seems that sometimes there are elements required to fit a certain genre and sometimes it's more about popularity with the listeners. At any rate, whether or not the song stayed on the country charts, it has received quite a bit of airplay on country music radio. Maybe as much or more play there than on stations that play pop music. Original mix Remix with Billy Ray Cyrus Story here https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/billboard-d...ry-removal.html And more here https://www.complex.com/music/2019/04/lil-n...dio-music-chart |
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Jan 30 2020, 12:02 AM
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The media audience for ANY market or genre always skews young. Kids, all kids, are into the "trap" beat thing. A lot of pop country hits in the last couple of years employ a bunch of electronics and hip hop grooves - even if it's under the main drum beat. It was only a matter of time before it made it front and center with Lil' Nas X. It demonstrates just how much African American culture permeates and dominates the socio/cultural and artistic landscape here in the States.
-------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Jan 30 2020, 07:11 AM
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Well this is turning into a great discussion. It's seems that one can't really define country nowadays by saying what you will hear or recognise in a country track before it's even been heard.
I wonder if the same is holding out in jazz and blues charts. Personally, and I'm willing to have my mind changed, genres should be defined by the sound of the music not by its audience. If country fans start listening to Discharge, it will never make Discharge a country band unless Discharge themselves start to sing with a slight yodel and use a bit of slide guitar  Thanks all, for making this an interesting thread  Phil -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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