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Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 08:32 PM

I am quite disapointed by the HUGE amount of members, who went out of GMC If it is a bad topic, close it.. I just felt, I needed to get this out of me... It made me sad, that so many people went out of this site... you know.. I wont be leaving - if just for the community.. but also all the stuff that going around here.. all colabs, contests.. And some of them even directly said, that they dont want to go back... everywhere around here I read how we all share our "love" towards GMC.. and now this..

I just dont get it Why?

Posted by: Capt.Z Mar 19 2008, 08:39 PM

that is true.... i dont know what to say...
I dont think ill be leaving for a long long (long.....) time...

but what u say is all true. We should do something about it.
i dont have any ideas tho....

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 19 2008, 08:42 PM

Actually I don't think anybody is leaving. Few people have joined another competitive site (but I really don't see any big competition there to be honest and objective) but the sites member rate is growing as always. When I joined it (this was in november) site had like 3900 members, and now... well 4600, that's 700 members in 5 months!! THat's like 4, 5 members coming daily here...so GMC is a huge community, the best on the net of its kind, and I'm not saying this only because of the huge number of members, bu tbecause it is an awesome community, with tons of great stuff to learn and place to come when you need anything at all - not just guitar. That is priceless!

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 08:48 PM

Its around 20 people from what I saw, that are two-sided now.. and few of them just got away from GMC - at least I havent seen them posting here for a few days.. I just dont see ANYTHING you cant get here... if you skip pavel.. I agree, that he is cool.. but.. you have 40 lessons here? I dont want to talk about Pavel anymore - its his decision.. but you probably have a picture about what I think

Also, I am a bit afraid, that another of my favourite instructors will "migrate" Sorry if I am being.. too emotive:D It just struck me you know

Posted by: mattacuk Mar 19 2008, 08:50 PM

+ 1 with Ivan

It is not a big deal so not to worry. Those who have signed up with a competitor site are probably just curious more than anything! And i doubt many of those are leaving GMC

GMC gave me something very special when life wasnt so good to me - and for that I am VERY greatful !! There will always be competor sites, there always has been - this is not a new thing ! i wish them the very best of luck, as long as they are happy.

GMC is very unique in many special ways, so lets get back to learning and haveing fun

Posted by: Owen Mar 19 2008, 08:50 PM

I can't really say anything, suffice to say there is a lot your being kept in the dark about.

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 19 2008, 08:50 PM

I'm in the dark about this too.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 19 2008, 08:50 PM

People come and go all the time, this is a large community. If a couple of people (out of 4600...) has gone that's no big deal. Actually I think they will be back since this place is just too awesome to miss.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 08:54 PM

Oh, censorship or what? (and now I said what I shouldn't ) But yes.. maybe I am just being oversensitive:D

Posted by: SinoMan Mar 19 2008, 08:59 PM

When I saw the title of this topic, I actually thought someone was leaving again -.-

Thankfully not.

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 19 2008, 09:02 PM

Guys, there just guitar lesson sites Besides, aren't we all just trying to learn as much, and absorb as much information as possible?

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Mar 19 2008, 09:07 PM

+1

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 19 2008, 09:11 PM

Actually my mistake, i was member 3341 so my account is around 8 members per day are signed in...

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 19 2008, 09:15 PM

Yep.

Posted by: MickeM Mar 19 2008, 09:16 PM

Thanks for sharing.

Sometimes lately I have thought to myself that it's because we're tough on swearing, sexism etc but you should all know that's out of concideration towards the general atmosphere in the forum, ie out of respect to everyone here. That's you folks.

During the years (I'm not that old but anyway) I've gathered some experience and one of those are that I'm not leaving a winning team. Which I think GMC is. I rather stick around to better it if there are flaws and I know for a fact that switching to something new (job, new site ot whatever) is always a risk. What might look good at a first glance might not be all that and a bag of chips. So for that sake I'd never ever tell the boss my mind when leaving a job for another, or degrade GMC if I were switching sites. I may want to go back to my old job or stick with GMC so just to get something off of my mind to burn all bridges or cut all bonds is never in my favor.

But anyway, we'll keep working to make GMC a better place, always. My part in that is to moderate which is a tiny part compared to what Staff and not the least all the members, us guys, make it to be. So everyone should pat yourselves on the back since it's not GMC without you, and if someone leaves... well, that's fine and normal and I don't see the point in telling everyone "I'm leaving" unless you feel like it's a breakup from family. I know if I wasn't involved I would just disappear. So in a way I'm puzzled ppl have to say they are leaving or that they will stick to both sites unless GMC made an impression.

Anyone who wants a bit of foul language and a bit of tactics and some warfare come join the alliance I'm part of at
http://rage.earthstats.net/user/rage/ragepower.html
I've been playing http://games.swirve.com/earth/ game since -96 and I'm still with it. Hope to be here struggeling with my guitar playing aswell in 10 years from now
Now, join and tell them "bayag" sent ya ;-)

Posted by: Unleash-The-Shred Mar 19 2008, 09:39 PM

I just joined the game but I didnt get a conformation e-mail. I went back to check if I typed in the right e-mail address and I did can you help MickeM?

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 19 2008, 09:45 PM

Uh...lame. Nothing against you personally Owen, but there seems to be something going on I'm not aware of. Personal vendettas or conflicts aside, does this have anything to do with any problem with this site as a learning tool/community? Just want to know if this "thing" is going to affect anything that has to do with me learning guitar. If it's a personal conflict or something that's fine, I'll let the people directly involved deal with it, it shouldn't be spread out among the entire community, but if it's going to affect me as a student I would like to know.

Posted by: Angelica Mar 19 2008, 09:47 PM

I don't think they make gathering, it's just different lessons. And one always tries the best to learn, more sites, more lessons! (I have not that money and personally I'm satisfied with the amounts of lessons I find here but there are plenty of ways of learning guitar, one doesn't exclude the other!)

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 19 2008, 10:00 PM

This is a great topic Jakub - thanks for bringing it up!

Well my philosophy has never been to force anyone to like or be at GMC - on the contrary if someone doesn't like GMC or doesn't want to obey the rules... I'll be the first to tell them to leave.

GMC for me has been about using the internet do something which I find really cool - if someone else doesn't find it cool then it means that

1 - they are cooler than us

2 - we have different definitions of "cool"

If someone thinks that GMC doesn't deserve the title "coolest guitar website" then there is nothing we can say to change that - all we can do is make it better. Which is what we have been doing the last couple of years and intend to keep doing.

Thanks for all the fantastic feedback!

Posted by: Siggum Mar 19 2008, 10:04 PM

I just want to state that i have never seen or been in a community as friendly as this one, and i think that your doing a fine job keeping it that way.

Posted by: Xranthoius Mar 19 2008, 10:08 PM

Yeah, I've noticed that too, but like Ivan said, there are like 4600+ people, and many coming daily. Surly there are more joining that leaving.

Posted by: SinoMan Mar 19 2008, 10:08 PM

That's the most boring game I've ever seen. I guess I'm not mature enough -.-

Posted by: Bogdan Mar 19 2008, 10:09 PM

Me neither and I'm very proud that I have met so many cool people here!

Posted by: Mrblomme Mar 19 2008, 10:10 PM

Cant be

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 10:12 PM

I f there is anoyne, who doesnt have anything to practice at GMC, throw stone on me.. IF there is anyone, who feels, the lessons are too easy/uninteresting, throw two of them.. I doubt anyone will..

You know what I mean? I am just curious... You want to have band? create? be part of HUGE and friendly community? have one of the best guitarists in world rate your records? you want study? practice? have fun? talk with other guitar dependant? you want to ROCK? You have gmc.. what else ya need? I dont even SEE any competition..

Posted by: SinoMan Mar 19 2008, 10:15 PM

Everyone notice that if a post title contains 'Gmc', it will become EXTREMELY HOT.

Posted by: Brother Woodrow Mar 19 2008, 10:16 PM

This is a great site to learn guitar. Never believed you can learn so much without having a teacher just sitting in front of your computer. Never believed until I came here 1 year ago. And since that time this site gets even better and better. Congrats, Kris, that's all I can say.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 10:18 PM

Yes it does.. and I want it that way.. I want this to be the most brutal ..ing devotion thread ever made:D in a few minutes, you all who post a reply into this tread will become slaves to GMC with no way back and you will have to defy it forever:D

J/k.. but.. partly yes.. I want this to have as much replies as possible.. I want see members SUPPORTING GMC:) not financialy.. but by realizing, how cool is it.. how much you get here.. and that it is more than just guitar site.. its family

Posted by: SinoMan Mar 19 2008, 10:20 PM

23 members reading this topic. That's A LOT.

Posted by: ActiveX Mar 19 2008, 10:21 PM

I'm also a member of that "other" guitar site; nothing wrong with having multiple resources for learning. That being said, I would never choose the "other" over GMC. This is the place that inspired me to get serious about my playing, and the community here has been so awesome; everyone is always so friendly and helpful...I don't think I'll ever leave here of my own free will

Posted by: Hisham Mar 19 2008, 10:32 PM

no comment .

Posted by: SinoMan Mar 19 2008, 10:33 PM

Why not?

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 19 2008, 10:50 PM

When no comment, why to comment?

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 19 2008, 11:29 PM

http://www.paveldenisjuk.com/truth/

Kris posted this in one of his posts.. so It should be alright for me to post it too I hope.

Not sure if Kris followed the contract that was at hand but.. I'm not getting into it and he's already fired anyways... .

Posted by: steve25 Mar 19 2008, 11:34 PM

Wonder how many GMCers will leave because of it even though it isn't their business

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 19 2008, 11:35 PM

Well Tjchep is right ..

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=2493&hl=employment+contract


No rules got broken

Posted by: mattacuk Mar 19 2008, 11:36 PM

Really guys, this is getting tireing now. If anyone wants to follow that link its available on the general forum.

Can we please move on from this? if not for the members, but for Kris?

Posted by: fkalich Mar 19 2008, 11:36 PM

In general, the times I have accomplished things, have been those when I set definitive goals, and stuck to them, not getting sidetracked.

I've got plenty to learn here.

Posted by: Outlaw2112 Mar 19 2008, 11:47 PM

No rules were broken and i dont see anything wrong with someone working two jobs to put himself through school..

GMC is a great community, but the basic fact is that all this stuff is just guitar lessons and everyone wants to learn as much as they can..

GMC isnt your family, they wont be there for you if you get injured, or help you out with bills, or take care of you when you are sick.. All this is to learn guitar from, it is nice to have cool people on GMC, but there is nothing wrong with being at two sites...

Posted by: Rodnator Mar 19 2008, 11:48 PM

I do not pretend to know why people come and go, they all have there own reasons. I visit many guitar resources around the Internet for many different reasons. I personally find many of them to have helpful/useful things to offer. I also find the lack of moderation for language or relevant content to be lacking on many of them. With my 11 year old son looking/reading over my shoulder often I find piece of mind knowing what he sees here at GMC will always be agreeable, helpful and not offensive. We are all big boys and girls and need to make decisions for our own reasons. If you choose to look elsewhere because this website and it's staff chooses to appeal to people intent on the process of learning guitar without hassle of language or off topic issues. See ya.

Posted by: Nobody Mar 19 2008, 11:51 PM

Well I don't know about the other guys but for me GMC is something way too special. It's not just about the lessons. I've been around 3 months before I could get a subscription. Now I'm waiting for a month and more for my second subscription(I just can't find somebody with a Credit Card and PayPal only accepts Credit Cards from Bulgaria :/ ). And still I'm around every day. Reading at the forum, checking out the new lessons and dreaming about the moment when somebody with a Credit Card will pop out and I'll be able to practice again here.

My point is that it's not about competition. The main thing is that GMC has this great atmosphere, the feeling when you see the URL getting loaded.. Well that's the thing that's worth it and no other guitar site can beat it. Because they're just sites. Nothing more.

Cheers,
Hristian

Posted by: fkalich Mar 20 2008, 12:03 AM

I mentioned above that in general, I have accomplished things when I set definitive and measurable goals, and stick to them, not getting sidetracked on something else.

My current goals are:

1) Keep working on some songs I know until perfect, about a half dozen. But no new songs at this time. No getting sidetracked

2) Master these lessons. There are 58 of them. There is other stuff and other teachers I am interested in, such as some Acoustic stuff, and some other teachers. But this is the task at hand. I don't see going elsewhere, how that will help me accomplish my goals.

I copied these from my bookmarks, thus the word 'delete'. I know about half of them in some fashion. I am laughing now. Why in the world would it be helpful for me to go around the internet in search of some royal road, when the royal road is right in front of me?

Blue Fantasy Solo part 3

Delete Blue Fantasy Solo pt 2

Delete Blue Fantasy Solo pt 1

Delete Easy Melodies in F

Delete Sweeping Lesson 1 (3 string shapes)

Delete Sweet Melodies in D major

Delete D-Mood Lesson

Delete Shred Solo Lesson

Delete Extreme Neo-Classic

Delete Shred Tapping Solo

Delete Kirk Hammett Solo Tricks

Delete Paul Gilbert Style Lesson

Delete Pentatonic Rock Cliches

Delete SRV - Stevie Ray Vaughan

Delete Rock & Blues Licks

Delete Oriental Shred Lesson

Delete Open Chords Rock Lesson Solo

Delete Open Chords Rock Rhythm

Delete U2 - The Edge - Style lesson

Delete Mentiras - Cirse

Delete Mixolydian Soloing

Delete Improvise Like Slash Lesson

Delete Eric Johnson Style Lesson 2

Delete Rock Rhythm 'n Solo Lesson

Delete Zakk Wylde Style Lesson

Delete Velvet Revolver Style Lesson

Delete Muse Style Lesson

Delete Heavy Riffs & Sweep Picking

Delete Sweep Picking Lesson

Delete Speed Licks Solo Lesson - GMC Intro!

Delete Power Metal Rhythm Guitar

Delete Eddie Van Halen Style

Delete Melodic Tapping Lesson

Delete Power-Metal Speedriffing

Delete Alice in Chains Style Lesson

Delete Winding Roads - Marcus Lavendell

Delete RHCP meet Zakk Wylde

Delete Neoclassical Three-Level-Lesson, Advanced

Delete Neoclassical Shrapnel Style

Delete Roo - Creative Metal Soloing

Delete Neoclassical Three-Level-Lesson, Intermediate

Delete Janes Addiction Style Lesson

Delete Free To Go - Rhythm

Delete Free To Go - Solo

Delete Sweeping Lesson 2 (5-string shapes)

Delete 80s Glam Rock Lesson

Delete Paul Gilbert Style Lesson 2

Delete Eric Johnson Style Solo

Delete Pink Floyd Style Lesson

Delete B Major Intermediate Solo

Delete Tapping - Licks without Picks

Delete "Misconception"- Riffing n Picking (drop D)

Delete Neoclassical Three-Level-Lesson, Beginner

Delete Neoclassical Sweeping & Legato

Delete Tapping Lesson

Delete Hand Control Lesson


edit: oh, i intend to also look into that one new teacher's exercises, the finger independence ones. those are not really songs, just exercises, but I am thinking that may be useful. not sure for me, but will check that out. but in general, unless I see something new here that is overwhelming, it goes on the back burner. The big 58 come first. All else can wait.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 20 2008, 12:04 AM

Well.. that pavels site struck me a bit:( now I am really sad:(

Posted by: JVM Mar 20 2008, 12:04 AM

I agree. I wish IG good luck, but I think some of what the members who have "defected" to IG have a very... off putting attitude to this situation that makes me not want to go there. GMC is everything I could ask for and much more. I did not particularly like the comment Pavel left about Kris hiring "****" instructors, I think a lot of the new guys are phenomenal. Guys like Alejandro and Gerardo for example (of course there's more of you ). So I suppose in that sense, I don't think Pavel came across particularly well himself in this situation, it is a personal conflict and nothing more.

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 20 2008, 12:09 AM

Yeah.. I don't think this is a win for either Kris or Pavel.. So putting it on the internet was kind of a bad move In my oppinion..

Revenge is one thing, but when you try to get greedy with it.. Karma kicks in..

Posted by: The Uncreator Mar 20 2008, 12:19 AM

Ok, Everyone. I am a registered member on "the other guitar site", FACT.

Now this is why.

First off, I love GMC to death, its a phenomenal guitar community, And ive poured a lot of my time into hopefully helping it. Me being at "the other guitar site" is in NO way defecting from GMC, Ill argue till death with anyone who thinks different, i plan to still be on GMC as much as possible, i love this place, Its like a second home. But if a user goes to another guitar community, so what? Its there choice, i dont think we should judge them on it, after all, I still see some of the members that went to "the other guitar site" still posting here, so im obviously not the only one who still plans to stay! I love this place, else i wouldnt have 5000 + posts!

I am at IG for one reason, Pavel. When i first joined here, it was just Kris and Pavel. Pavel helped me alot with my sweeping, legato, and AP, His lessons are something i really learned from, and i love his style of music that he plays. He has contributed alot to my progress, he talked to me to get me on the right track. Im on IG so i can use his lessons on there, and continue to be able to learn from him, And seek out his advice. Now im not saying or trying to demean any Instructor on here, NOT AT ALL!! They all are just as capable, But Pavel has always set me on the right track.

People, I say lets not worry about this, Pavel is gone and it is a sad loss, This isnt the best way to send him off is it?

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 12:20 AM

+1

I agree I dont think it was the best thing to do either , some will be sucked into it and for whatever reason feel that they must make right this wrong that seems to have been done to them also?? but on the other hand, it will wipe away an awful lot of respect that he earned from a lot of other people as well.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 20 2008, 12:24 AM

Well... thread with GMC in name starts to get hot.. This matter really saddened me My respect towards him grew and I no longer feel confused why people leave.. that IMO was not fair - as if it was my buisness.. but its just my opinion.. 'nuff said..

Posted by: JVM Mar 20 2008, 12:27 AM

Uncreator, FYI just in case, I wasn't talking about you specifically, but I have read some hot headed and ridiculous stuff over there which is what I was referring to.

Posted by: besip Mar 20 2008, 12:27 AM

co te hlavne nastvalo odchod Pavla??
sorry for not using english i'm kind of under beer control so i'm not sure with the english
but i'm try also in english

whats made you angry most?? the Pavel leave??

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 12:55 AM

Ahhh,large chat here,maybe we could go into chat room to crash Google

As far as I've seen few (ex) members from GMC joined IG and said words like..
"I'm never coming back"..."lets see GMC crashes to death:"...etc.

Now,all I wanna know is why,did they experienced something that bad here at GMC???

Nope,guess not.

Posted by: skennington Mar 20 2008, 12:55 AM

I see 8 guests are reading as well. Wonder what they are thinking? Should I join or not?

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 20 2008, 01:03 AM

Chat doesnt work?

Posted by: fkalich Mar 20 2008, 01:05 AM

The intelligent ones are figuring it out, that this is the place.

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 20 2008, 01:06 AM

.

Posted by: MickeM Mar 20 2008, 01:20 AM

The contract is an agreement between Kristofer and the instructors and for information rules in fact were broken. Some time long ago there was a remake of the contracts stating the new rule that instructors should not work for other guitar sites. The instructors okay'ed this but since it was on the instructor boards which is hidden it hasn't been witnessed by the members.
But I suppose since this was not done in public and if it's not on Pavels site (is it?) he simply "forgot" to mention that detail since it would work against his present case.

And besides I think the hostility Pavel is displaying isn't working for him. Aiming to be a respected guitarist who'd want to hire someone that will try to hang his employer in public if not everything goes his way? If I were smart I'd store his page for the day he's famous and then sell the news it to the media. But I'm not smart, and I'm not greedy for blood money and I don't want Pavel any harm so I won't.

So now, since the contract was broken, by Pavel, what's this fuzz about? He broke a contract, when that happens there are consequences. Same as in hockey, football, a company or even if you hire a car and break the agreement you have to pay the consequences. That's life, nothing to cry over but just move on.

I really don't see the point, all this energy on some sort of vendetta based on a fake case.

Posted by: fkalich Mar 20 2008, 01:23 AM

if nothing else, this thread go me trying those finger independence exercises, I just mentioned them, and now tried them, and yes, this is good stuff. Slow stuff like that really will help your speed. I discovered that earlier, but here is a real good set of formal exercise for that.

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 20 2008, 01:25 AM

Yes, I think this is a personal conflict, but I love Kris and Pavel, so I must voice my opinion, it was Kris' lessons on UG that gave me my first breakthrough on guitar, and Pavel helped me so much with sweeping, legato, and alternate picking. Both sides are not going to come off particularly well after this, there is no way one side could "win". A similar thing happened a while back when a student left a somewhat negative comment on one of Pavel's lessons, Pavel stood up to him and challenged him to play a lick as fast he could, while I respect Pavel for continually standing up for himself, I think when people push his buttons he can overreact, heck, we all would if someone pushed are buttons. I think there was an overreaction on both sides of this also, not saying one person was wrong or one person was right, I just think people overreacted. I love GMC, but I also love Pavel as my teacher, I just wish this could be settled in a way where Pavel could come back, and everyone was friends again, but I'm afraid that this will separate people. Look at the comments on Pavel's Truth page, there already is a flame war going on in there (witch kind of funnily ended in one guy insulting the others grammar, as so often happens on the Net when both sides have strong points).

I'm a sad Panda.

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 20 2008, 01:28 AM

There's always more to it isnt there . Hah.

Thanks for clearing this up though mate.. Very much appreciated .

tj

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 20 2008, 01:34 AM

Really, this makes me feel alot better, that it was all just some big misunderstanding. While I'm not happy Pavel is gone, I'm actually glad that there were infact rules broken that was the cause of Pavel being let go. As long as the right thing was done...
I'm a happy Panda.

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 20 2008, 01:34 AM

Oh, I never knew these rules Is there a link to them?

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 01:36 AM

Micke makes some great points in his post, there is a (forgotten maybe ) missing element in Pavels arguement that would really knock quite a big hole in his "Truth" page if it was there.

I`m actually appalled at his reactions to some of the comments, I said before that it was because of one of his lessons I joined GMC, it apears we didnt get to see the "real" Pavel maybe?

Also, he mentioned how "under pressure" he was with his course work etc on the forums several times as I recall,

well theres what? 23-24 lessons on IG by him and he claims he only worked for them for 6 hours?? let you work it out, why cover up?

I`m not trying to dis the guy here, but looking for a little fair play, his part was not all innocent

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 01:39 AM

they are on the Instructor boards that are not visible for all members, but trust me, they are there

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 20 2008, 01:41 AM

Did he have to sign again?

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 01:43 AM

Rules are rules, as an Instructor he agreed to work here by those rules, just as we all agree to take part in the forums and follow the posting rules & guidelines.

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 20 2008, 01:45 AM

But if it was added after his contract, technically he never signed it did he? Im not trying to start an arguement or anything, I'm just confused

Posted by: rokchik Mar 20 2008, 01:54 AM

If people want to leave, fine it's their choice and I wish them all the best. Is it sad yes but I'm sure they have their reasons. If people want to belong to more then one lesson site then that's fine too...I mean most of us really want to improve and will use any and all resources to achieve our goals.

However I don't really like the idea of people bad mouthing anyone on other sites especially when it probably has nothing to do with them in the first place. I mean no disrespect to anyone, it's just I think that whatever happened it's between those parties and those parties only. People will have their opinions yes, but I feel that it's none of mine or anyone elses business. What's done is done. Let us move on and leave all other discussions for MSN and get back to what we are all here for in the first place GUITAR! We need less drama and more practice folks Because I can really throw some drama at you guys and show how silly some of this really is. ( Sorry I'm just a bit pissy ATM. Some of you know about some stuff I've had going on lately and well most of what's been going on here lately seems..... well I'll leave it at that)

I've been here at GMC for a year and well I just love it. The people on this site have helped me just as much as the lessons and that is reason enough for me to stick around. I've made some great friends on here and have learned so much. This is the first forum I ever had the nerve to post on and it was due to the friendly atmosphere and the fact that Kris is really trying to make things better for us members. He listens to suggestions and he really cares about the product he is putting out there. He has my respect and I plan on being here a very long time.

rok

Posted by: fkalich Mar 20 2008, 01:54 AM

I have the distinct opinion that Kris knows what he is doing on such manners.

Law is not simple, it keeps the lawyers off the streets. For example, legally I could put some ink on my head and smack it on a contract, and it would be considered legally binding if done with intent. Or sign a check "Bozo the Clown" and it still be legally binding. Law is complicated. I'm sure Kris has had advice on such matters, everything about the man tells me he has good business sense.

edit: the head smacking thing would be good in the US, Canada, probably Britain. Actually much of common law in the US is British law that we inherited. Although I think this is covered by UCC, not common law. I forget, been a long time since college.

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 01:58 AM

The contract is on the material that he produced, There are rules for Instructors as there are rules for us

We choose to follow the guidelines so we dont get warnings etc, an Instructor rule is about producing significant amounts of material for competitor sites, he didnt choose to follow the specifics of that rule.

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 20 2008, 02:01 AM

This all confuses me

Here, I'll make an example

Let's say Im an employer, and I write a contract for a guy named Jim that he works for me, and he signs it. Then later I add that he doesn't get payed. That means it's still legal? Because I still don't see how Pavel agreed to that added part

PS Still not trying to fire anyone up

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 02:09 AM

Stevie mate as fkalich pointed out, employment law is a minefield, I`m not an expert, here in the UK, not sure about other countries but you can be employed with no "written contrct" at all, you make verbal agreement to work there for x amount and away you go, in fact I`ve worked for my employer for 8 years and only recieved a contract of employment to sign 18 months ago.
But according to the Law I am covered by an "Unwritten contract" Pavel states in his Truth page that it doesnt exsist, well I can tell you it does

http://www.evancarmichael.com/Human-Resources/801/The-Unwritten-Employment-Contract.html here ya go mate, have a read of that if ya fancy it

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 20 2008, 02:10 AM

If you read Mike's post then you would have noticed that he said all the instructors signed it..

I don't think there are any loop holes to this.. pavel just over looked a few things when he made the "truth Site".

Posted by: Stevie·Ray·Vaughn Mar 20 2008, 02:11 AM

Being 14, all I know is if you dont do what the sign outside says, the police come

Posted by: Smells Mar 20 2008, 02:12 AM

Posted by: fkalich Mar 20 2008, 02:22 AM

yes, but you are showing a curiosity, always admirable in a young'n.

a lot of cases are actually decided on "reasonableness" more than anything else. the judge can't tell who is lying, so it is decided on whether it is reasonable that some event occurred, or did not occur.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 20 2008, 02:38 AM

GMC for the WIN .. im never leaving

Posted by: sam47 Mar 20 2008, 02:54 AM

I like it here. The lessons, community. This discussion is good but I personally don't need or want to know what happen between the instructors. I hope the issues are resolved for all involved and they've let it go.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 20 2008, 02:54 AM

ive read those words in the page on Pavels site.. its upsetting that Kris and Pavel had that little tiff and i think now that its out its kind of upset some GMC members.. me included.. i don't want to leave over it but i think Kris tried to handle it in the right way for the wrong reasons and Pavel tried to handle it the wrong way for the right reasons.. hard to explain.. but this is the first bad experience ive ever had at GMC

Posted by: Danilo Capezzuto Mar 20 2008, 03:00 AM

+1

Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 20 2008, 03:07 AM

+1

I know I'm not leaving GMC

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 03:11 AM

I'm fine to see members using few sites for learning,
actually I fully support that.
Knowledge is the most precious,no doubt there.

But I don't like when some of them are bad mouthing GMC or any other place,
without any reasons...just don't like that

Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 20 2008, 03:12 AM

Yeah, I read some of those too...

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 20 2008, 03:19 AM

Well Pavel did break the rules, MickeM stated that it was added to the contract that instructors would not do lessons for other sites, and that all the instructors agreed. That said if Pavel did a couple lessons for the other site, I think Kris would be generous to him and give him a warning, but he did over 20, he clearly broke the rules. That seems like the right reasons for Kris.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 20 2008, 03:22 AM

yea the more i read the more it seems that way.. atm id just like to drop the subject and get back to good ol GMC im not gunna blaime Pavel or Kris and the knowledge of who did what really doesn't effect me anyways

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 03:23 AM

No,that is not the rule.
Kris allows us to work for another site IF that doesn't affect our productivity for GMC
and if lesson topics aren't that similar with ones we make for GMC.

So all you have to do is to contact Kris and work things out nicely,fair I believe.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 20 2008, 03:25 AM

Thats interesting because i think thats sorta why Pavel got fired is it not? or is it just because he didn't tell Kris about it? not really important anyways

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 03:26 AM

Then I guess he didn't tell anything to Kris,
just guessing,not sure...

Posted by: orion6324 Mar 20 2008, 03:36 AM

well i know a big reason some people are leaving[ive talked to em about it] and most people found this site from the old freelicks site and joined here and were dissapointed cause it just has people playing thier own creations and not actual songs that everyone wants to hear lick freelicks..and ive talked to other people that are going to leave because like i said they dont wanna learn someone elses riffs......now to combat this i think what is in order is updating the freelicks site with songs and solos like before....[you can still update that site with that stuff without violating copyright laws since it still is free] people wanna learn that kinda stuff..crazy train solo,nuno solos all that stuff thats what people are after

Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 20 2008, 03:39 AM

^I'm after improving.

I don't need anyone to show me how to play a famous solo. I can figure that out on my own ( unless it's like Necrophagist or something lol)

Posted by: ActiveX Mar 20 2008, 03:41 AM

Personally, I disagree with that theory; I would much rather learn new original riffs from our talented instructors, and then use what I learn from them to come up with my own original stuff. I don't mind playing a few famous songs or riffs for fun, but that's not what I really want out of my lessons. The lessons here help you to develop your own style and sound...much better than copying someone else's

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 03:45 AM

Yeah,but they are joining the site where instructors
are teaching their own stuff as well.

However there are tons of tabs for solos or tunes all over the net.

Posted by: skennington Mar 20 2008, 04:12 AM

Agreed!!!!

Posted by: RIP Dime Mar 20 2008, 04:26 AM

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. That sounds very reasonable. But I think I'm done with this topic, I'm ready to take on some new lessons!

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 04:27 AM

+1

Posted by: RobM Mar 20 2008, 05:34 AM

Forgive me if I have what happened incorrect.

Well I had it all written out nice and neat for everyone to read then I thought, hey most of the people here use english as their second language so I shortened it to this: It's highly doubtful that anything posted on a web site message forum would hold up in a court of law as a legal and binding contract. There are just too many variables to think of as to why this would not be considered as legal.

A judge wants to see agreements like this on paper all laid out in black and white and then signed. If you are running any kind of business and have people like musicians who have a portable and highly marketable skill making money for you, you are a complete idiot to risk your income to something as lame and inept as a message forum contract.

If a musician was working for web site A and was only allowed to make X amount of money for whatever reason, then went to web site B and also started working there because they needed the extra income. When web site A found out and said you are in breach of our contract IMHO the musician could defiantly say that there really is no cotract and I can work for whoever I want to at the same time I work for you.

Web site A could do one of two things, allow the musician to work for both web sites and continue to make money off of him/her or no longer allow the musican to work at the web site. But if option two was chosen, the web site must be very careful about ownership and rights to the music and lessons created by the musician. With no legal and binding contract the musican could serve a cease and desist order on the web site and no longer allow the web site to use any of the lessons created by the musican without paying a royalty.

Seriously I don't think either of them have really taken the time to think this thru. I also think that it was only a matter of time before this happened.

Posted by: leedbreak Mar 20 2008, 05:35 AM

Well, GMC is in my blood now so, I am not going anywhere. GMC is too good for others not to copy, this is true with any great Idea or successful business.
People want something for their money. They know they get it here. I for one have barely paid what 3 or 4 regular guitar lesson would cost me and I have taken hundreds here.


All I say to all the bull dookey is..

ROCK ON GMC

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 20 2008, 07:29 AM

I dont get why anyone in their right minds would LEAVE this place because of this.. Joining the other site aswell is fair enough. But making a whole scene out of that they want to leave is something i just dont get.

This place is one of the absolute coolest and best online-communities i've ever seen, with some of the best instructors/guitartalents there is. Muris, Walliman, Juan, Nick, Gabriel, Ivan.. etc.etc.etc.etc.etc. (I'm still baffled i got accepted)
GMC is just a mindblowing place to learn and hang out.

All thanks to Kris who works his butt off everyday to keep it all together, and who had the idea to start this in the first place.

Posted by: preownedguitar Mar 20 2008, 07:45 AM

Oh boy, 3 months in... This is going to be a great year! But seriously, their is so much to learn here and if you think otherwise you would be fooling yourself. Leave the politics to the politicians and keep learning.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 09:26 AM

I'm on the "other" site. I'm on this site. I love this site, I like that site. That's many peoples philosophy. I think this situation has been blown out of all proportions and I think Kris should take a few things from this and I hope he takes my thoughts on board.

1. Physical Contracts - Print off a contract and send it to the instructor. They sign and send it back to you. This contract will stand up in a court a lot better than a forum contract. I think this is important for you and your business

2. Clear Rules - If instructors have to tell you if they are working on other sites then make sure the instructors agree to do this and from now put it in original contract they sign.

3. The big one - Truth - If you had told us Pavel had been fired from the start and the reasons why I don't think this would have escalated. Yes to many it is respectful to Pavel to let him go and not have other employers asking questions on why he was fired but when he has been working here so long I think it is disrespectful to his friends to not know the truth. I think if you had come out and told everybody what happened then people would be more understanding and this wouldn't escalate.

I respect Kris and Pavel greatly for what they do. Kris is trying to keep a successful business and of course he wants everybody to succeed with guitar and Pavel wants to help as many people learn guitar as possible. Lets keep this topic away from any site now as it hurts every site this comes up on.

I hope you understand my thoughts Kris. And good luck with the next year. I know I'll be here for a long time.

OC

Posted by: blindwillie Mar 20 2008, 10:22 AM

Agree.
I miss the atmosphere of the forums when I joined, but the content now is so much better.

Every site with member interaction goes through these phases.
Small and cozy. (Yes, I miss that myself sometimes)
Starting to grow. Change in atmosphere in forums
Big growth. The site changes drastically sometimes. Some people leave.
The site stablizes, at least for a while and gets more laidback again.
...

The people leaving can be the core members who got sick of it all. Or some other fraction. As long as the core team is still there nothing will change for worse. It might be better to stay and fix/ride out the problems than going to another community and go through the phases again.

I don't like this "There is secrets you should know about but I won't tell". If you know something speak up. Let's clear the air. If it's just rumours then don't say anything at all.
Might well be a disagreement between Pavel and Kris for example but that's no big deal. Ppl don't get along sometimes. Things change, you need to move along. If that's the case then it's up to Kris or Pavel to explain if they feel they want to. I see nothing strange in instructors or members coming or going.

A short explanation with just the facts, leaving emotions aside, is often better than dead silence.

/edit: Lots of posts between me reading and posting. Most of this is obsolete now I guess. Other ppl already explained it.

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Mar 20 2008, 10:28 AM

It's really a mistery for me
why leaving the best site ??? I don't know

Posted by: Melodic Axeman Mar 20 2008, 10:45 AM

Mmm.. i would like to say something, but please take it like an advice ok?

I joined here exactly 1 years ago (today!), when were just kris videos, or maybe some from pavel. In the beginning there were no too much lessons, but they were very useful and clear.

Why? I remember how i came here the firs time. Browsing a website and found a kris videos that was something like "turututuruturututu want to learn how to tapping? I'll show you!" and when I saw that on the site there was other cool lesson like this I joined immediatly. The point is that I think in the time the community grow up, and the lesson too, but the standard quality of the lessons has diminished a bit, obliviousy talking about vids quality and 101 lessons, not instructor, that are all very very pro Maybe a way to go is to set a standard rule for video recording res, shots angle and increase 101 lessons that are in my opinion the best lessons, especially if they explain how to do some technics or similar (I can remember now for example very clears lessons from pavel on how to sweep, or from kris on how to use metronome, etc)

Maybe people that will go to this other site, are attracted by the high res videos, and the more " "professional" " style that the webpage has, but I think at last that is eyewash and we can get better and shred the competitors! Well, I'm just an user so i hope that you will get it has a little feedback and some advice, just it

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 10:58 AM

I think maybe Kris should put together some small survey with several questions on different aspects of GMC and give it to all members and they can maybe give tips like this on how to improve and keep above the competition. Competition is good as it will improve the site more and more.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 20 2008, 12:19 PM

Well, I shouldn't really talk much on the subject because it is no of my business what Pavel does, and Kris certainly knows what he is doing (just look at this whole community!), but it is in my interest to help everybody here to learn as much as possible, help them with advices whenever I can, and give some advices to make the site better.

Now regarding the survey, I think big surveying is happening on GMC all the time, in the past 5 months as I've been here the site really got some great features and it will grow even further. Just look how Kris started and you can really see how much effort it took to make this community as it is, and it will grow even further. Also I think non individual can stand even close to "beat" the strong core of employees and members that make up this great community. Also and I must note that "beating" and "revenge" are very imature words for our kinda work, in some respect an insult so it is best for me to stay away from these sorts of discussion.

ROCK ON GMC!

Posted by: JVM Mar 20 2008, 12:23 PM

I love you guys

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 12:30 PM

It's not about beating the competition it's about bettering yourselves to stay ahead. The resources here are awesome and I hope more things will be included in the future to improve this even further. I'm gonna stay here and that's for sure.

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 20 2008, 01:01 PM

I know, the beating is such an imature word, so let's get back to learning, developing and having fun. That is what is all about!

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 01:05 PM

I can't wait for the future of GMC as it's getting better everyday. What I reckon would be cool is if we had an online metronome at GMC that could be set up to do weird timings also.

Posted by: Fran Mar 20 2008, 01:11 PM

Long life to GMC

I don't see why people joining other sites have to talk bad about the other places they belong... it feels weird!, it would be like breaking your other guitars when getting a new one, or stabbing an old friend in the back just because you met someone new... I mean it makes no sense...

Oh well, I gave up tryin to understand human behaviour a long time ago

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 01:14 PM

lol. Psychology is a horrid topic area But an important one. I never say anything bad about here or anywhere else for that matter. Apart from Preston, UK

Posted by: Nick Kellie Mar 20 2008, 01:17 PM

hey preston is not far from wigan! watch it! - although I have to agree - Preston is a little depressing!

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 01:18 PM

I'm from Blackpool. You'll know now why I said that I was of course joking

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 20 2008, 01:28 PM

A little depressing Nick? My sister lives just outside Preston and consequently I've spent many a (un)happy ( ) hour in the gigantic bus station there. Biggest one in Europe I think .


Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Nobody Mar 20 2008, 01:29 PM

I don't get it! What's with all the "Increase the video quality", "Instructors bla bla bla"!

HEY!

Don't be such winers! Maybe you have forgotten the time with the crappy audio casette players with tapes with re-re-re-recordings and the only way to learn something was to play it by ear from one of them! Now you get perfect videos, you have guitar pro files, you have explanations like for an idiot and there are still some that are complaining! I don't get it!

Hristian

P.S. Sorry for being quite offensive but hey, you are getting so f***ing much for your funny 48 dollars and some are still complaining.. It just pisses me off..

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 20 2008, 01:52 PM

No need for taking it personally man, we're all here to make things even better! Ideas are always welcome!


PS I remember the tapes and text tabs...

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 02:15 PM

Ahhh I remember tapes too,"good" old times.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 02:16 PM

I've got the music of the Jungle Book and Lion King on tape

Posted by: Mrblomme Mar 20 2008, 02:20 PM

$48 for all of this is idd very cheap. But if you live in Europe its only like €39.
Even cheaper

Posted by: Melodic Axeman Mar 20 2008, 02:25 PM

If it's directed to me, I've said only about 40 times that was just advices to get it better, I'm not wining about anything
Relax

Posted by: Jerry Arcidiacono Mar 20 2008, 02:31 PM

Thank you for this post!!

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 03:11 PM

I am going to be completly honest here.. and everything I say is my opinion only.

The reason I pay for this site is for the potential of it.. I don't pay to watch the lessons because ussually I don't even watch any videos except for the main ones, I pay because I see it as an investment in a site I truly bealive can become really great and even revolutionary!

But lately, the site has taken turn to the wrong side, sometimes it feels to me that the hiring of instructors is focused more on quantity rather than on quality, and I won't go into that matter as I'm sure alot of you will agree with me on this, other than that there's the whole Senior thing, which I feel is making unnecessary ranks on the site, causing people to be more "helpful" and more active on the boards, wich ultimatly just causes alot of useless repeating posts.

Also I didn't know about this until yesterday, but some of the things the instructors are getting paid for are absurd, 5$ per 100 posts, and the payment for collabs, those two things shouldn't be paid for, they need to come from the thoughts of the instructors, knowing they get paid for it makes me feel they are not doing it seriously but only for the money they recieve from it!

There's other things as well, but I won't go into it.

Again, this is only my opinion, and don't mean to offend anyone..

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 20 2008, 03:30 PM

I dont think there's any quantity-over-quality problem here..
Sure, there's alot of instructors.. but they are all working very hard on making good lessons. And there's many lessons to cover lots of styles.
But seriously, 2-3 released videos each day cant be considered alot.. It's just about right.

Sure, we might get paid to post.. but i dont see why that should make what we say less serious. It's not like posting alot would work as a get-rich-quick scheme
I spend some time in the chat too, and we dont get paid for that.

Posted by: stetson Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM

Just my thoughts:

I'm new to this place, and I'm not interested about all this chit chat about who did what to whoever, all I care about here is improving my guitar skills. I'm not interested in making friends, or talking about global warming and stuff.

In fact, I've spent the most boring half an hour of my life tryin to find out what's the other website you are talking about. I could be playing guitar instead!

That being said, I think it's pretty normal to make some friends in the long run, as long as there will be some interaction involved like, "hey guys, my harmonics sound like crap, what can I do about it", that kind of interaction.

Yeah, I know, I can see the paradox, I'm talking here about not talking here I thought for once my opinion could be great for you guys, as I am not the kind of guy that makes his point in a forum.

But I don't get this kind of community feeling, this kind of "us" and "them" thing.

I think you should focus in improving your site, instead of talking about this whole ex-coworkers situation.

This is not just an internet business, I know that, but in fact, it really is that too, and you need to approach to these situations like it is. You need to identify the coolness (yes, I've said that, Chris!) of this other site, and try to bring that here with a twist of improvement, that's what everybody does, and there should not be any feelings involved about that.

In fact, that's what they are surely doing about GMC. And you know which are those cool things, I've been there and I saw them.

I think GMC is great, is helping me a lot, that's what's really important to me, I'm not switching, I'm planing to renew my subscription, and I really thank you guys for all your work.

Posted by: Goliath Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM

I am on the same page as Iluha here with a couple differences in opinion.

I think rewarding instructors for being active in the community is a GOOD thing, as it builds community, but doing so in a constructive way. Off topic posts shouldn't count (meaning, in the offtopic board). That's just cutting up, that's not benefitting from their insight/experience with music. Paid collabs are a GOOD thing as well, because if you're a pro/semi pro musician, why waste your time with a bunch of rookies on the net? This is helping folks understand, providing 1 on 1 time with instructors and helps folks understand recording/nailing their tone, I think this should be paid for, sure.

That said, there are some lessons I look at and think, this has taught me nothing, this is just a pretty piece of music. The "In the Style of" stuff can be tricky, without a GOOD narrative of WHAT makes the composition in the style of, what techniques are used, explanation of what key is used and why, etc etc. is good but sometimes it's just a "hey look at this cool riff I can play" and isn't a lesson so much as it is an exhibition.

Personally, I disagree with the "family friendly" vibe of the site as well, but that's my preference, I mean I understand the logic and the reasoning but at the same time there are times I wish the site was a little more adult oriented.

As for the various "strata", I understand the reasoning of the GMC Senior stuff, but just about all seniors are now moderators, so I don't really care. Yeah, it encourages people to be active and post loads, but a lot of times I can tell when folks are just post farming.

Just my opinion though.

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM

Just my opinion but:

1) Any member who has concerns with the quantity or quality of lessons may take those concerns to Kris. Indeed it's already been said that we would value the feedback.

2) Seniors - they get to be a senior because they have a history of helpful and informative posts and not the other way around.

3) When instructors reply to a specific, and often technical, question they often do so at some length and put a lot of time in to composing their replies. In so doing they are calling upon their experience and knowledge and the replies are often easily 100 words in length. For 5 cents that imo is a bargain.

4) The additional payments to instructors isn't a secret - the information is available for any one to inspect.

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 03:34 PM

The thing is there's alot of lessons who are just not "good"(my opinion), and incidently those lessons are from the same instructors.
Im not saying everyone's posts are less serious, but some are, I won't point out names but just look a couple of thread below this one.. anyways I'm not saying anything else or it might get personal.

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 03:41 PM

1) got no objections on this, I just decided to post it here as well because of the circumstances.

2) I defintly disagree with you on this one, Iv'e been a member long enough, and longer than most of the seniors, and in my opinion if some of the people that got seniord are seniors, then there's alot more who should be seniorised, but if that would happen there will REALLY be a class issue which I would only expect from free forums.

3)Look at my post above.

4)I didn't say it was a secret.

Posted by: jeff Mar 20 2008, 03:48 PM

yea man. I miss the old cassetts and LP's. I've scratched and ruined a lot of good records trying to learn songs. I remember this ..lift the needle, place needle back a little, drop needle, write notes, do over again. Old School rules! And OLD DUDES ROCK!!

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 20 2008, 03:49 PM

With over 500 lessons, and so many instructors it is reasonable that you think that lessons are varying in quality. As for quantity, the number of lessons is growing bigger and bigger eveyr day. Personally I think that everyone can find anything it needs for his own taste of playing.

ALso the same with collabs and posts, we are all different people here, in need of knowledge. Through collabs people do a great job recording and making their recording abilities better. Instructors do their best to make the good backing, upload everything, mix it all up, listen to everything, make all the comments and people can always find something useful and constructive in order to make them better in playing and recording. Also feedback on the forums is very important, and I strive to help everyone who wants to know something more. It is all part of the job, but of course a lot more too. For someone to play my lesson, and learn something from me, it is a great accomplishment for myself to, and we I am learning as I do lessons to. So all this makes me feel good about myself and come here more often to help i f someone needs help. This makes members better players, and us too, and everything is working the best it can because of the whole comission based idea.

Also I think personally it is great for Iluha to be honest about the things he don't like about hte site, yes these thing can be little unpleasant to hear, but it makes the site even better after it! So thanks man for pointing out the weak spots!

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 03:53 PM

Ivan on a personal note, I think you really set a great example of how a teacher should act, I can truly see that you care and want to help people become better musicians! but, and I know this for a fact, some instructors are not like that at all, sometimes I read an instructor reply to a recording(either mine, or someone else's) and think to myself:"did he just listen to the same thing as me?".

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 20 2008, 04:04 PM

Thanks man and, if may I add, something very positive turned out from this whole mess, and I think you being honest about thing you disslike or like on GMC would mean a lot to instructors and members so we can have even better community with a constant strive for making things better.

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 04:07 PM

Thanks... I didn't have a negative intention, just some things needs to get said, and I hope it gives others some courage to speak out, because I know there's alot of other people that feel the same as me, and the only way to change things is to speak you'r opinion.

Posted by: Tuubsu Mar 20 2008, 04:12 PM

Yeah, I agree with you on everything except the instructors collab and posting payments. I would have wanted to discuss it earlier, but maybe I thought it would get too negative image and/or responses.

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 04:18 PM

Payed posts and collabs,
that's Kris's policy towards instructors,
I don't think members need to think a lot about that,imho.

Of course of you have any doubt about that I suggest you to contact Kris.

And yeah,Pavel's statement "don't hire s**** instructors" was really unprofessional and worse.

Posted by: Bondy Mar 20 2008, 04:21 PM

Wow taking ages to read all this all iam gonna say is GMC rules and iam never leaving

Posted by: jeff Mar 20 2008, 04:27 PM

Hey Iluha,

I'll just throw a thought out here... if an instructor spent some time to provide an honest informitive post that helps someone else, I will assume that it must take a little time to do so. If you were to multiply that by 100, the simple math tells me that equates to less than $5 an hour because it must take more than a hour to do that many posts unless you are on a spam rampage. You could mop floors at the local taco joint and make twice that amount.

So at least to me, I don't think it's an absurd amount and quite frankly I don't think the instructors do either. In fact, I believe they post because they are interested. There is hardly any financial gain there.

On another note, I love GMC! I don't mean to blow sunshine on the instructors here but damn, I'd give my left one to play like Lavendell!

Posted by: Melodic Axeman Mar 20 2008, 04:28 PM

I don't care about payments and what else, that is not my business. The only thing I can care of is what I can learn and how I can improve my skills in guitar playing. And in my opinion there is a most important point, and goliath has been very clear:

Sometimes is useless to learn some lessons, like.. i don't know "Prog solo", or "Metal riff", because you can learn the same thing playing a famous song, instead of learning a 1 minute piece of song that doesn't give you nothing at the end.
As I said, I think that the most useful lessons are the 101, where you can really learn techniques (i.e. tapping, sweep), theory (pentatonic, box shifting) and other cool things, all talked and explained like when you are in front of a real instructor. Sometimes the feeling is that there is a backing track, a jam recorded on it ant that's a lesson.

Even "in the style of" can be very useful, but only if there is an explanation on what does the artist in order to get that sound, techniques etc, if it's only a video with a couple of notes to learn, you can learn some song and maybe have fun with your friends.

I renewed since now, but sincerly I have to say that generally what I do is watching the main video and skip to another one

Posted by: Mrblomme Mar 20 2008, 04:28 PM

+1

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 04:33 PM

Yeah I think I didn't think about the payment thing enough, when I think of it now throughly, most of the instructors don't
abuse it.

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 20 2008, 04:35 PM

Different people can get something different out of the various lessons.
A "prog solo" lesson might be useless for you, but someone else might pick up a thing or two about how to play like that, and then use that for his/hers own solos.
I do understand what you mean though.

Posted by: Bondy Mar 20 2008, 04:49 PM

Damm i have been out of the loop i did not know half this was said
I have to say though when you start to get a community this size there is gonna be conflicts of sorts it inevitable

Posted by: Kizaze44 Mar 20 2008, 05:00 PM

Been reading all of this and thought I'd add my 2 cents. I personally love the site and have no reason to look elsewhere. Better videos? Please... Being self-taught for 15 years prior to GMC, figuring out how to read music, laboring thru boring books, etc... then I find GMC, and wow! It's all here! I've got enough lessons in my bookmarks to last me a lifetime. And with the increasing "quantity" - just more to choose from and learn from, or ignore and wait a day for new lessons. I've got a buddy paying a teacher 60 bucks a week for a year. Haven't seen much improvement. What I've gained in 8 months can't be measured. The insight & knowledge we get from the instructors... for 48 bucks, are you kidding? I'd pay ten times that, but don't tell Kris.

Kizaze

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 05:10 PM

Pssst

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 05:54 PM

I've got a few good ideas but I'm a little too scared to say them.

I think there should be an ideas forum in which people can give new ideas for Kris to think about and then once a month maybe 3 people chosen from the community, 3 seniors, 3 instructors and the admin should get together to discuss the ideas and come out with some new things to add to the website that everybody agrees will be beneficial.

I think instructors should get paid for collabs and posts because it is a large effort to do them and most instructors only post useful replies.

I think any instructor who hasn't posted a video in 6 months shouldn't get paid for posts and should be given an inactive instructor status thing.

A few ideas I'd love to see implemented:

1. A rating system for lessons that includes a 0-5 or 0-10 scale would be better for people to rate them and have one box for feedback comments. These should only be viewable by admin (no members or instructors) and should be turned into feedback for the instructors by Kris to improve standard of lessons.

2. Online Metronome that can be used in different time signatures (think www.metronomeonline.com but with different time sigs possible)

Please don't crucify me for these points and try to think about them. I think a lot of people are starting to be unhappy so maybe a look at some things would be useful. I'm not particularly unhappy. I just want to see this place be the best place possible. I'm more than happy with the price here and the value.

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 05:55 PM

Those are really nice ideas OC.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 20 2008, 05:58 PM

Maybe its time for me, to post again I have finally red all of these posts.. and I am really excited how lively discussion was created here

My intetntion was to start being sincer.. because thats something, I feel, GMC is lacking.. I read so much posts, that are "tryingtobeniceguy".

I agree on some of lessons with Iluha and IMO its nice to have Prog solo.. but its same as with "In style off".. its nice to record jam-made progressive solo (meh... counterparts?) but I for one would SUPPORT THE IDEA OF MORE SUPPORTIVE TEXTS IN LESSONS. Just from top of my head.. Joe Katadlo and that new one Jazz instructor (sorry I just forgot his name..) lessons are ABSOULUETELY AMAZING and helpful! all the advices that they give.. all theory behind, how to do it, how they thought when making the video.. Now comapre it with our prototype of "plain prog solo lesson".

TO summarize.. I support idea of having more texts in lessons, that would acompany the video. Even more texts (talking) then lessons wouldnt be bad..

Btw. Kris's payment of instructors is just motivation, I dont see anything bad on this.. But I would see something bad on Instructor that would give inapproperiate feedback on collaboration entry.

Maybe it isnt Kris's failure - better to tell it to Mods that you dont have good feeling from that collab and instructors comments... You know what I mean?

Cheers Jakub

Posted by: Muris Mar 20 2008, 06:00 PM

I just can't recall any inappropriate comment on collab from an instructor.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 20 2008, 06:05 PM

Someone said that here in his post.. its not my experience This is just argument for someone, who said, that paying collabs is bad.. (dunno who it was, srry )

EDIT: To be more specific.. that member felt, that instructor wasnt paying attention to his post, as far as I understood that..

Posted by: Iluha Mar 20 2008, 06:12 PM

Those are awesome suggestions! I wish I'd thoght of the rating system!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 20 2008, 06:12 PM

WOW lots of cool ideas here! GMC wouldn't be anything without all the excellent feedback and feature suggestions we have got through the years from you!

Something that is a little new to me is that we are now seeing strategical suggestions (comission structure etc) - which is awesome as well! Hey - you wouldn't believe me if I told you how much we usually pay for that kind of advice!

When you suggest a new strategy (as opposed to when suggesting a feature), it would be great if you also let us know your experience in the field. Otherwise it will be a little tricky for us to determine whose strategy to go for.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 06:12 PM

Playing collabs is awesome

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 20 2008, 06:17 PM

Hey Kris. You'll find lots of valuable ideas in here on payment of instructors, additions to the site and many other aspects and I think it's great as it shows people's enthusiasm in the site Maybe we could get an ideas subforum in the guitar master class main forum?

My background is in project management and systems engineering so I have to know about the business side of things and have done courses in business studies and made money selling lemonade out on the street The last part may not be relevant I think this is real encouragement that people want GMC to become even greater than it is now and it's easy to do. I think my idea of maybe a mini committee made up of admin, some instructors, some seniors and some general members is a great idea to get everyones ideas across Nothing over the top. Just once a month for 30 mins max as to not use up precious practicing time.

Posted by: Pi38 Mar 20 2008, 06:19 PM

I don't know why people leave GMC, but in my opinion, this is the best guitar website ever. If they wanna leave and not learn to play at their full potential, so be it.

Posted by: Goliath Mar 20 2008, 06:51 PM

YOu might be able to split up a rating system into a couple categories so it could further give instructors feedback on what parts they need to beef up in their lessons. It could be an extraordinary piece with horrid tech support. I mean if you just outline what techniques it uses then not go into how they are used (if it's not obvious) then it does little good. You could even make it random who it selects while viewing the lessons to leave feedback to reduce the chance of gaming it if you decided to move to a compensation curve that was ultimately determined by feedback.

Back to my point about lessons for "In the Style Of". Toni, for instance, has great lessons off the top of my head because he really does capture the sound, does a good job of explaining WHY whatever technique is used and what it's applications typically are (building tension, etc) so when i finish learning a song I can actually make my own whatever style sounding riffs as well. Same with I think it was Joe's Gus G style lesson. Not saying that it's limited to that, but those are 2 lessons I can remember looking at in the past week and really walking away with an understanding of what makes that type of music that way. Sometimes it's just a slowed down version of whatever it is they are playing and really there's no real benefit to even having the videos, you could do the same thing in guitar pro and unless you already have an amazingly musical mind, you might not come away with anything.

My $.02.

Posted by: MickeM Mar 20 2008, 08:56 PM

If that was the case that member could bring the issue to the boss' attention, Kris.

Posted by: audiopaal Mar 20 2008, 09:02 PM

Good ideas OC

Posted by: superize Mar 20 2008, 09:10 PM

those are some great sugestions

Posted by: RobM Mar 20 2008, 09:23 PM

THANK YOU! For the longest time I thought I was the only one who thought the senior thing was wrong and that all some of the seniors seem to do is gang up on a member when they speak out about a part of GMC. God know's I've felt the wrath of them coming down on me when I in the past decided to speak out against some part of GMC. Then again there is a couple of them TonyMiro, MikeM that really do a great job with the title and are level headed enough to speak out in a thread but not to the degree where the OP feels smothered or even insulted.

I understand what Kris is going thru right now, his business is growing in leaps and bounds, he's succesful, he has money pouring in really fast and he's kind of light headed by all of it. Great, good job! Now he has to really be careful and make all of the correct decisions as there is a penalty for making the wrong one.(you lose member and/or instructors)

Time to go out and seek professional help. Hire a lawyer that specializes in internet buisness to make sure your back side is covered when it comes to your money makers (instructors) and your memberships and get some good liability insurance etc.. Lots of things to worry about when running a computer based business especially one that caters to people of all ages.

Posted by: javari Mar 20 2008, 09:40 PM

Growing fast has its dangers.
Companies can go bust when growing to fast. It's difficult to scale your organisation with the growth of your members.
And, if more people become a member of GMC, it will be more difficult to keep everyone satisfied.

Personally, I'don't have any problems with GMC.
I think it's great.
But of course there is always room for improvement.

I do like the suggestion of having more text with lessons, maybe a little background or applied theory.

And..., maybe Kris should do some lessons again.
After all, it was his enthousiasm and lessons that got a lot of us becomming a member of GMC in the first place.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 20 2008, 09:42 PM

I agree with alot that has been said.. but the comments about getting rid of seniors i don't like so much.. the people who have been given senior status have earned it. They've been loyal to GMC and have contributed a great deal to building the site and i think they should be recognized. I have never heard of seniors attacking people who have suggestions for GMC. I think seniorship is something everyone should aim for. Kris is doing a great job running the site too and there are always bumps in the road.. the idea is to look back and see what youve over come not smooth the bumps youve already gone over to make it look like it was a breeze

Posted by: mattacuk Mar 20 2008, 09:58 PM

Well, i am very sad some of you feel us seniors "gang up" on people

I guess that if you are nice, or if you are not (which i dont recall, but please enlighten me if i have !) that either way you cant please everyone.

Posted by: Angelica Mar 20 2008, 10:08 PM

I would like to say something, but I really don't know where to start...

I will say plainly what I think.

1) This is not a football club! "We are cooler, they are cooler", makes me laugh!!
2) All contracts, as someone wisely said, should be signatured by hand and sent by mail, otherwise i don't really think they can be considered contracts at all effects
3) we could also be nice people making friends here on GMC, but in the end of the day we are paying customers, and we should be treated like that (with no banning from forums one has paid for, unless for injurying people ON THE FORUM)
4) btw, censoring is not so strict for other issues which can hurt as well people's sensitivity, like linking some kind of striking videos which are then seen by the youngsters, as I seen
5) there's no way of getting upset by what people may say on the phone or on msn, it's their inviolable right and i have to underline that police has to get a mandate to look into one's private conversations, so how can anyone else do so? This is unacceptable and incredible and to me it sounds like an embarassing and scary censoring
6) Same thing is what is said on other sites, it's surely not nice to have people speaking badly of a gathering site but there's nothing to do but accept it
7) Gathering is normal in EVERY commercial entreprise and should be accepted as it is
8) btw, my idea is that Pavel has done nothing wrong 'cause he didn't publish GMC material on another site, but brand new material, so copyright, to my mind, is ok
9) personally i find this kind of climate quite scary, i have a "free spirit" philosophy so before I didn't have so many reasons to don't like GMC; but now I can have some more
10) I didn't know that thing about instructors being paid for posts in the forum, but I don't like it
11) I think that the rules for instructors should be known by customers as well
12) Anyway, I'm not thinking about leaving the forum, I'll go on following video lessons which for me work pretty good. But if someone else goes away, instead of getting upset, one should ask himself why, and try to improve the quality of the site, under ALL aspects.

I've said what I had to, may sound harsh but sorry, I'm an open person.

Posted by: Nobody Mar 20 2008, 10:24 PM

Don't know guys.. I think that we made too much out of something too small. The way GMC is is the way GMC should be. There are people who's job is to think about this and I don't think that we should mess in their job because they obviously know more about these things than most of us.

And I really don't like the idea of us being paying customers. Think about this. For these funny 48 dollars I can have a hour and a half lesson with a very good guitar teacher. Allthough I doubt he can even think to match Gabriel's, Muris, Marcus Lavendell's(mentioning them because they're my favourite instructors) skill, knowledge and experience. So we can easily forget that we're paying. Because actually aren't!

I consider GMC as a gift. For this kind of money we all get too much. And yes everything has problems. And this being the first problem with GMC we should think how to ease it, not how to make a bigger problem out of it.

Just my opinion.

Cheers,
Hristian

P.S. now I know how to say in english what I wanted!

Let's not be petty!

(At least that's what the dictionary said about the word.. I hope you get what I want to say because if I saw this I wouldn't )

Posted by: edguy Mar 20 2008, 10:38 PM

12) Anyway, I'm not thinking about leaving the forum, I'll go on following video lessons which for me work pretty good. But if someone else goes away, instead of getting upset, one should ask himself why, and try to improve the quality of the site, under ALL aspects.


[/quote]
I think this is the way it should be. Find the weak points of the site listen to the members ideas and improve the site.

I love this site and I will stay here because it is a great place

Edguy

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 20 2008, 11:23 PM

Guys,
Just on the subject of our Seniors, all of them - in addition to their posting histories - contribute an awful lot to GMC both visibly and behind the scenes. In my opinion each and everyone one of them does an awful lot that we don't necessarily give them any where enough credit for.

I also can't say as a mod (and I read all the forums as a mod) that I've ever seen any of them 'ganging up' on anyone. I actually find that insinuation quite offensive not least because they are nice people but because they try their best to help .

Matt, and ALL our Seniors - guys you are AWESOME and you ROCK!


(OK maybe not including me .)






On the subect of employment contracts - a long time ago I worked as a Trade Union Strike Convenor and I currently am employed in a capacity where I lecture to Post Graduate students on Human Relations. The whole area of Employment Contracts is fraught and complicated.



Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: MickeM Mar 20 2008, 11:24 PM

Cool! ;-)


Contracts, that's Kris' headache, really.

Then there are rules to follow no matter where you are, even if you're on a deserted island there might be rules against chopping down palm trees or lighten fires. Just because you pay the entrance fee to a night club you can't expect all night clubs to run by the same standars. One may allow the guy who passed out on the floor, another may kick him out. One guy said earlier he enjoy this forum since he can have his 11 yr old kid read above his shoulder without cussing and nudity popping up in threads. I was happy to see that because I for one have interpreted Kris' intentions with the forums to be for everyone and I have strived to uphold that standard. Anf by "for everyone" I mean that the adults will have to keep it clean for the least common denominator which are the kids. Sure, they already know all the bad words etc but if their parents know this is a clean place I'm confident they can peacefully let them hang here. And for parents with no control over where their kids spend their Internet time, at least this is a friendly place.
For us adults I don't think it's a huge sacrifice to refrain from swearing, acting sexistic and posting nude pictures. If people want that, there's thousands of sites to choose from. I'd rather leand towards that a clean site like this one stays in minority.
So I don't agree that paying equals complete freedom to rave. Just because you buy the lady a drink it doesn't mean you're free to do whatever you want.


So first you want complete freedom since you've paid, but that puppy video should not be allowed? Please!


The whole picture is that there was a MSN gathering to damage or destroy GMC. They may of course speak of whatever subjects they please. But these plans came to actions against GMC and at that point we reacted. We had all right to do so since that was an attack against GMC. It had nothing to do with the discussions on MSN. It was the attacks we had to defend ourselves from.


The MSN gathering was an Ill one. It was bad with evil intentions and since they were openly using GMC to damage GMC I don't see why we can't say it was bad? It certainly wasn't good.

The gathering itself was never questioned, it was their deeds. Please understand they were actively working to destroy GMC, the site I read further down that you would still like to visit.
A terrorist cell would be questioned as a gathering already and never accepted as it is. We're sweeter than that, we accept gatherings.


That's your idea and as much as I hate to tell people their ideas and opinions are wrong I have to do so in this case. Pavel was aware of the rules since there was a call on the new contract some time ago now, he choose not to tell Kris he was also working for IG. Ask yourself - Why do you think he didn't tell Kris? The answer is, he knew he was breaking the contract. Surely he told Sean over at IG he still were with GMC and they probably had a laugh about it too. Just guessing about that last piece but I think I'm very close to the real truth.


And that's perfectly fine with everyone. But make sure you base those reasons on facts. Just to be honest to yourself.


Do you like to see the instructors interact in the forums? Is that of value to you to get a reply from an instructor on a question you've got instead of having me reply something that's completely wrong.

11 - I don't think there are any big secrets.


There are different ways to approach a thing. One could post a suggestion for improvement in the forums, that will lead to a discussion, Kris whom it concerns may not even see it. There will just be replies like Ye and Nej and there's a risk in the end there's nothing. To lobby ones suggestion through a better way is to go striaght to the source, Kris (don't hate me for this if you get plenty of PM with suggestions now). You'd get a straight answer on wether it's doable and if so, when.
A forum post with suggestion will have less chanse of being pulled though. MickeM cracks a brilliant idea during the coffee break, everybody cheers and pats his back but nothing comes out of it more than the satisfaction for MickeM which lasts a whole two days. A month later Angelica has been thinking of what Micke says and schedules a meeting with her boss, presents the idea with a plan of how to adopt it. The boss runs to the manager, the news ends up in the company newspaper, already there's a project group attending to solve the idea and Angelica gets a wealthy raise and a small bonus. ;-)
I meant to say, enjoy the video lessons and crack new ideas. Any suggestions of improvements are welcome.

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 20 2008, 11:53 PM

+1 To MikeM

Posted by: besip Mar 21 2008, 01:38 AM

No mather what's happen lot of guys is upset how Pavel leave
I'm didn't read the whole post and i'm dont need that!!!!

ACTUALY PAVEL{GREAT INSTRUCTOR}!!!!!!!!!! is out


BUT SHOW MUST GO ON!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm gonna miss him but anyway without him is GMC still rock and if somebody wanna leave then is no way to Hold them.
but i'm also undertstand lot of you are upset.I'm was also upset a lot..but now is time to go and play again

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 21 2008, 01:45 AM

I'll drink to that!
The show must go on

Posted by: RobM Mar 21 2008, 01:59 AM

Well what is going on here(in this thread) could be considered ganging up as each and every senior has shot down almost every remark made by me and other members. This is not the first thread where people decided to speak out against some things on GMC and not long after a few of us posted in came the calvary "some seniors" who pretty much shot down almost everything we had to say there as well. Say what you want, I've been on the recieving end a couple of times now and as a paying customer it's not a fun place to be. I try to speak intelligently, I don't toot my horn, I don't use vulgar language and I try to speak from the heart.


So all that being said I am in no position to change the ways things are here, nor do I wish to remain at a place where what I say is treated with such disdain. So as I've been thinking for the past few weeks, I won't renew my subscription when it runs out.

Cya

Rob

Posted by: Smells Mar 21 2008, 02:21 AM

Basically you put us in a position then where we arent able to post any form of reply?

We are members here as well after all and entitled to opinions like everybody else, purely because we have a badge you see this as "ganging up" these thoughts & opinions posted by Senior members that you object to so much would have been said in exactly the same way regardless of Seniorship.

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 02:25 AM

I'd like to say few things about instructor contract.

I find it very easy to follow and understand,including few extra instructions in stuff board.
It's all very clear and all we have to do is to inform GMC management
if we're planing to teach somewhere else as well.
That's pretty fair from my point of view.
Then we sit and talk,look throughout all options,possibilities etc.

So as far as I can see things,
it's really hard to break those rules by coincidence or mistake.

In life but in bussiness as well,the TRUST is really important.

Posted by: Tmas Mar 21 2008, 02:58 AM

Although I havn't been very involved in the community, I have been here longer than most, I've recommended it to most of my musician friends, and I don't think I could convince myself to leave leave.... ever. Even if I wanted to..

Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 21 2008, 03:30 AM

+1 , I never have seen the seniors "gang up" on any one, only engage in debates. This is a good discussion that everyone is engaging in. I think it's ridiculous to say the seniors gang up on people.

As to the question of, "why do we have seniors?", just look at MickeM's post a couple of tiers above mine. I think it's pretty clear.

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 21 2008, 04:21 AM

There really is no need to argue at all on this topic.



When I first joined Gmc It was Kris and for the most part Pavel, other instructors were starting to post new lessons but alot of it was Kris and Pavel. Some of you are blowing things out of proportion and making the seniors look like "bullys" when in fact , you and I both know that they did nothing wrong. Together this is a wonderful place to hand out and have fun. We talk about are issues , guitar, life. In every way this is an awesome place and all arguing does is ruin it. Sure we did lose Pavel but some of you are acting like Gmc is destroyed. Kris is always finding great instructors and its not like all the work that Pavel did here is vanishing into thin air because he left. All his lessons (54 of them) are still here ! Who knows he might come back and visit but surely if you were Pavel you would want to do whats best for yourself ( Even if that means going to another site ! )

Everyone needs to stop arguing and chill. Lets get back to doing what we have been doing all along, having fun.

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 21 2008, 04:41 AM

I'll drink to that too!
Very well put

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 21 2008, 05:50 AM

This thread is starting to scare me.. i figure we shud all just drop it and get back to practicing

Posted by: Spreedmaster Mar 21 2008, 06:41 AM

I agree. Its giving me a headache just reading it!

Posted by: Col Roberts Mar 21 2008, 07:44 AM

I also agree. I enjoy this site. I love the music, the choice of lessons and the positive vibes (??? until now).
"Make love not war". I'm going off to practice.

Posted by: Dave Rock Mar 21 2008, 09:40 AM

I recently joined ...

but guys, what a drama!

Ok Pavel could play, but so what? There are tons of people here that can play, so what is the problem?

I can just say ... just continue what you're doing with GMC. A little competition only improves service and quality (in the point of view of the paying customer - US - )

If there is one thing here that bothers me, it's the fact that I need to watch my language or postings (as I am used to adult environments like Harmony central forums). But as the staff already stated that they like the 'clean' idea of GMC, I can understand their point of view.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 21 2008, 12:25 PM

I think what is meant by the seniors ganging up is that when people have ideas that maybe in a bad light then seniors stick for the site a bit too much and turn it around to say what is good with it rather than what can be done to change it. It isn't really ganging up but is having a huge love of GMC and not liking people saying bad things about a place that makes them really happy. I love that the seniors are here and I truly think they deserve it and I'm happy some of them thought my ideas were useful but please when somebody says a bad thing that is constructive then look at it from the view of how can we change this persons view of the place as if one person thinks it usually several at least do. If they are being nasty then very enough.

I love the seniors enthusiasm and it is one part of GMC that is actually good and if Kris does decide a small committee to implement new ideas is a good idea then seniors will be a large part of that as well as some members.

I know full well that Tony, Andrew, MickeM, Matt, Brett, Tank and Chris (Smells) are great people and very inspired members of GMC. Sorry if I missed anyone out

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2008, 12:30 PM

I like this idea and I think the way we will start is to have subboard called "site suggestions" so we can gather all the great ideas we have got!

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 12:31 PM

+1

Looking forward to it Kris,
it'd be great place to collect everything.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 21 2008, 12:35 PM

That's great as I'm sure people will have wonderful suggestions that you may not have thought of I think this thread has been very useful.

Posted by: mattacuk Mar 21 2008, 12:37 PM

I think your a really nice guy OC

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2008, 12:38 PM

Agreed! Very cool ideas and important feedback.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 21 2008, 12:52 PM

Ok - we are rolling!

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showforum=109

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 21 2008, 12:53 PM

Cheers lol

You also

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 12:55 PM

Awesome

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 12:57 PM

I am glad something good came off this thread:) I was worried, that this will have bad ending.. but looks like otherwise its true:)

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 12:59 PM

Nah,there are too many awesome people here to ends up bad.

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 21 2008, 02:02 PM

And me mwahahahaha

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 02:28 PM

I'm counting you as well Tony.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 21 2008, 03:24 PM

alls well that ends well

Posted by: Joe Kataldo Mar 21 2008, 03:42 PM

+1

To much noise in my opinion

Posted by: Goliath Mar 21 2008, 03:58 PM

The senior's issue:

I'm not doubting their contribution to the site but I certainly notice what they're speaking of. If there is a discussion about anything and a senior takes one point and a non-senior takes another, almost overwhelmingly people will jump to the side of the senior in an effort to appeal to them because they themselves would like to one day be considered a "senior", which is not a title I've notice be passed out since I've joined the site ( I joined right after "seniors" were created). The argument of the senior is unimportant, it can be riddled with holes and logic and in my opinion some seniors are notorious for doing so, but the population in general will overlook often flawed arguments in favor of brownie points since there is a perception in the community as a whole that there is a 'tiered' member system. When you all change your avatars to whatever the theme of the month is, it reinforces my theory. The same holds true with Instructors, if the instructor advocates a point, more often than not people will agree with the instructor despite the instructors being wrong themselves sometimes. if I had it my way, I'd make seniors moderators and do away with the special icon, because if Halo 2 multiplayer has taught us anything, it's that people will go to great lengths to get some neat icon next to their name.

I don't doubt that seniors have contributed plenty to the site, but to suggest that they don't enjoy an almost favored status among the community at large is willful ignorance.

As for the contract, it's pretty flimsy, and I'd hate to disagree with a hallowed senior, but I think you're wrong.

The explicit wording of the contract can be found here:

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=2493&hl=contract

I'm no lawyer but my job is issuing contracts. There is no language highlighting supplementary language found in unattached exhibits. If you were to take this contract to the letter of the law in US court, Pavel could sue for wrongful termination as the contract is very weak, at best. Were I Kris, I would create a public page to view known as "Supplementary Conditions For Instructors" that highlights very explicitly which can be grounds for termination. There is no mention of notifying GMC about employment elsewhere. I'm not aware of any behind the scenes agreements but if you were to look at this contract carte blanch, I wouldn't have to because any obligation on the instructors part of notifying GMC of other employment is mentioned absolutely no where in the contract. It explicitly states that material developed for the site can be used no where else for instructional purposes. Kris could argue that the intent was to suggest that the video lesson posted on the internet format and using GMC's format on other sites is breach of contract and could lead to termination, but that is the one area where the contract does make explicitly clear that it is the video and texts made specifically for this site, and not in general, so Kris would be wrong. Also there is no discretionary termination clause giving GMC the right to terminate any instructor at whim, plus there is no outline for GMC to pay the monies due to the instructor upon termination, which would likely be good language to include in the contract as it would establish a precedent and a procedure were this to ever happen again.

Were I Kris, I would revamp the contract and require all instructors re-sign it. International mailing could be a pain, but I would seek it and might even require a notary seal on their signed copy. Upon the execution of the contract, make a copy and send it back to them and keep records of having sent it.

You're welcome to tell me "I'm wrong" but based on the American contract law I'm familiar with, I can go ahead and say to you that "You are indeed wrong".

Posted by: Muris Mar 21 2008, 04:04 PM

I'm perfectly fine with current contracts.
If you have any plans or doubts,you just contact management,simple as that.

There you go,I'm done here.

Posted by: MickeM Mar 21 2008, 04:44 PM

You have got a point in what you're suggesting and I think the answer is rather simple. Seniors, instructors, Kris, moderators + other staff have as a task to keep GMC running. That can be a conflict of interests when we have to uphold the standard we've set when we at the same time have to defend GMC's interests in discussions with members.
So from my point of view I think it's one of out strengths that we (bulk us up as staff to make it easy), the staff, can stand united when there's a conflict of interests.
The downside as you have notice is that it will seem as we're ganging up. At the same time we do have a right to voice ourselves both as members and staff. Obviously that will also be confusing knowing when the member MickeM is saying something and when the staff MickeM is.

And mind now that you put the question to seniors so when you get replies from seniors in all direction it's not us ganging up, we're just replying to "defend" ourselves individualy. But there will be more replies than one.

I'd be happy to take suggestion to how this can be improved (if what I said could be a problem) without administration that could kill us or removing our rights to speak up as individuals.
But maybe it's not just the senior sign that does it, maybe we'd have the same view in 90% of the cases either way? idk

Posted by: Angelica Mar 21 2008, 05:29 PM

+1 for Goliath

Posted by: RobM Mar 21 2008, 05:35 PM

I couldn't have said it better myself! I've spoken the best way I can, I cancelled my subscription.

Posted by: fkalich Mar 21 2008, 05:47 PM

just want to be 200th person to respond to thread. die thread die.

Posted by: mattacuk Mar 21 2008, 06:03 PM

Indeed

Posted by: Trond Vold Mar 21 2008, 06:50 PM

I think this thread has outlived it's purpose.

Posted by: jammer91 Mar 21 2008, 07:22 PM

9 pages



Ive missed so much around here. Now I dont really think many people have left. Most people probably are busy concentrating on studies now because of board exams (yep, its those months, im having my IG's in May). Lets see how GMC turns out this summer. And if they did take a decision of quitting, then too bad for them really, whatever be the reason they are missing out a lot of quality lessons that can really boost their playing abilities (even Paul Gilbert could learn a thing or two from Muris and other instructors).

OMG, I just realized Pavel left. This is bad.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Mar 21 2008, 07:38 PM

This makes me very sad.

All I, and the Seniors have ever tried to do is to help Kris run GMC as best we possibly can and we have each put in a lot of work to do this. Descriptions of us as flawed egotistical elitists, are really upsetting to me.

I won't attempt any sort of defence because I believe that there is nothing to defend against. I have always worked for GMC with the best possible intentions, as have all the seniors and moderators. That's all there is to it really.

If we have disapointed you, I apologise but I don't know what I could have done differently.

Posted by: Siggum Mar 21 2008, 07:48 PM

I dont think alot of people have thoose thoughts Andrew, i think it was one maybe two individuals who felt that way, personally i want to give all the Seniors credit for taking their time to contiuesly make this a nice place to stay.

So all i got is thumbs up!

Posted by: audiopaal Mar 21 2008, 07:52 PM

Not many people think like that, so don't worry Andrew
...and you shouldn't apologise, you haven't done anything that needs apologising for!

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 21 2008, 07:56 PM

11 pages of bull****- Close the thread.



Edited For Language, The Uncreator

Posted by: PolackHax0r Mar 21 2008, 07:59 PM

I agree - this has gotten so outta hand....

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 21 2008, 08:01 PM

When a site grows you need more people to work there to make it better every day. That's the reason why Seniors and Moderators exist. Kris couldn't be in every part of this great comunity. I don't think that they are doing a bad job here but if you do it would great to say what your think.

Posted by: Angelica Mar 21 2008, 08:02 PM

Maybe I've lost something but it doesn't seem to me you have done anything to apologize for

Posted by: RockinRobert Mar 21 2008, 08:04 PM

This is my third guitar site and I think, while it lacks a vast amount of 1 on 1 lessons, it is the most informative and guitar inspiring.

Keep it up

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 21 2008, 08:08 PM

Yes, Yes, Yes !

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 21 2008, 08:29 PM

Can you just lock this thread?

Please?

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 21 2008, 09:28 PM

+1

Posted by: Goliath Mar 21 2008, 10:47 PM

Andrew I don't think it's the seniors in person that anyone is upset with, I am mildly irritated with the "seniors" system, not with you or any one of the seniors in particular.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 11:29 PM

Also.. noone has openly answered to Goliath - all seniors just said "We do the best we can.. if we gang up, we apologise".. but he criticises the whole system of senior.. system of the "elite members".. so I dont think, this thread is done yet.. but is close to it:)

Or we can go HUGE with these elite members.. and make status.. like.. icon tree, which will depend on number of your.. say "Forum points".. you will get points for example with every collaboration and 1 point for every post in forums and the more points, the more icons you will be able to choose from.. if you want groupes, lets make more of them, than just seniors (i would like this system though:P )

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 11:29 PM

Double post.. srry..

Posted by: ActiveX Mar 21 2008, 11:37 PM

I really don't give a flying f*** one way or another; I thing most of us here are getting sick of this...can we just get back to business now please?

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 11:39 PM

Then why you post here if you dont give a flying f***? Leave it on those, who do, while you can just go back to buisness.. Whats the problem?

Posted by: ActiveX Mar 21 2008, 11:40 PM

It's just all the fighting bro...it's bringing me down - I'm not pissing on anyone in particular. Relax

I really do give a BIG flying f*** about this place and the people here...that's why I hate seeing stuff like this. A good discussion is one thing, but this has gone on too long now.

Posted by: DeepRoots Mar 21 2008, 11:41 PM

http://www.roflcat.com

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 11:42 PM

Well.. if someone has problem or thinks, things can be better, or he just feels, that somethings wrong, I think its good to tell it to others... I prefer honesty before tranquility..

But still.. I would leave the mods to decide..

Btw. deeproots, what does that picture mean? I cannot translate it (I am tired so maybe thats it:D )

Posted by: Outlaw2112 Mar 21 2008, 11:51 PM

They are just guitar lessons... thats it.... youre paying for guitar lessons, who cares if you visit one site or another?

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 21 2008, 11:52 PM

+1 with Jakub - whilst there is still something to positively discuss and air then maybe we should do so.

BTW - I think Deeproots pic means something along the lines of 'can we all just have a hug now?'???

(Yes imo but doesn't mean the conversation is done ).

Cheers,
Tony

(Ducks before all the brickbats start flying.)

Posted by: DeepRoots Mar 21 2008, 11:55 PM

Indeed it does

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 21 2008, 11:56 PM

I am going of to bed.. its 10 after midnight here, so I wont be much useful for debate.. .but tomorrow 4th day of brickfighting can start.. Do you imagine, how huge quantity of bad feelings and tension were released? (almost) everyone said what he needed and most of us can be happy once again..

From time to time.. i think, that dispute is needed.. to be honest, for at least short time..
The water cleans, air refreshes.. and we all are happy once again Dont Ya think?


Good night lads
*gets hit by brick into head and falls unconsious*

Posted by: ActiveX Mar 22 2008, 12:02 AM

Have a good night man...and don't worry I'm still happy;
I just don't like disputes and confrontations, they make me uncomfortable...
but that is another issue that I will be bringing up with my psychotherapist

Posted by: Smells Mar 22 2008, 12:04 AM

some good things can come out of debate for sure

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 22 2008, 12:14 AM

Apart from the bump on my head . Ouch, ouch, ouch.

Posted by: MickeM Mar 22 2008, 01:13 AM

Hey you shouldn't be replying to another Seniors or moderators post!!! Ooops, I did too, just hope it's not three mod posts in a row, that would make elite hat-trick [insert the appropriate smiley since I can't recall the code for eyeballing one and proxy server makes it impossible for me to select]

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 22 2008, 01:19 AM

Sorry, mia culpe, lo siento.

O heck I've done it again (Britney where are you???).

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 22 2008, 02:13 AM

just to break the mod spree

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 02:15 AM

x2

Posted by: The Uncreator Mar 22 2008, 02:31 AM

-1

Posted by: RobM Mar 22 2008, 05:09 AM

To be honest I'm really surprised that this thread and all of it's posts have not been deleted off of the GMC site. I mean what with all of the negativity in this thread who would want that on a board so full of people blowing smoke up each others butts? Rofl, what really gets me is how really close to the truth Goliath really was with what he said about the seniors and how people will just about agree with anything they say to get a few brownie points from it.

Posted by: RobM Mar 22 2008, 05:14 AM

forget it

Posted by: RobM Mar 22 2008, 05:15 AM

Consider this my last post, it's getting childish and I want no part of that.

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 22 2008, 05:23 AM

im really confused about the last 3 posts..

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 22 2008, 08:30 AM

Good morning... I am confused too. maybe autor is confused as well?

Posted by: Bondy Mar 22 2008, 09:58 AM

Well i came here to learn guitar not to whine about politics of the site and forum.If people put more practice in there would be no time for negative postsThis used to be a fun place but i have noticed it's new members rocking the boat not older ones

Posted by: DeepRoots Mar 22 2008, 10:16 AM

http://www.roflcat.com

Posted by: demonmyst Mar 22 2008, 11:17 AM

That's a major thing about this site.

We're here to learn, not so much talk. Talking is just a giant bonus. :] This forum makes the comforting side about this website. Also the instructors willing to answer any and every question you have, even if it's the dumbest most obvious one .

Posted by: MickeM Mar 22 2008, 11:34 AM

I will reply to your post RobM but my reply goes for several more who I think should think one step further.
I have to disagree completely about brownie points. I could on the other hand state the same regarding you and Goliath who walk hand in hand whily stirring things up.
I never asked to become a moderator, I was asked.
I never asked to become a senior, I was asked and as far as I know that was because I had been helpful to others. I know I have been doing by best to help you out several times when you have asked questions. I now I hear it's bad (draw a parallell) since it's affecting members to suck up. Come on! It's so much BS you can't belive it.

I can't belive some people use up so much energy on trying to change an already good place. If it's cussing and nudity you miss here, there's plenty of other sites on the internet for that. Maybe even guitar sites.
If you want to change something, why not aim for something better, like providing means for research for finding a cure for heart dicieases, or work to find ways to help poor children in the third world, help the WWF any way you can so save the nature.
You could get your own badge and your own forum for lobbying at GMC I'm sure. Just use that energy in a positive way instead of negative trying to change the best guitar community - I've ever seen at least - just because a tiny detail doesn't please you. Surely you should try to better GMC aswell but I for one and sick and tired of reading posts with so much negativity and back patting others who find flaws with GMC. A bit of self control is all that's needed.
Say you manage to get all the moderators to tire of this, like a buch of school kids would hassle their teacher (yes, some of you are not lobbying, some of you are just whining over and over and over again) into tears, would that make you happy? Most of the seniors gone and only a few left which would make an easier target since they can't gang up on you people.

I say like Basil Fawlty said
Guest: I'm not happy!
Basil: People like you never are, are they?

Posted by: Bondy Mar 22 2008, 12:09 PM

+1 Well said Mickem just what i wanted to say but more articulate

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 22 2008, 12:11 PM

Hmm +1 to mickem.. maybe its time to finish this and get back to guitar:D anywas.. I wrote a solo in middle of posting this, so there was no practicing pause to me:D

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2008, 12:30 PM

A few words about seniors - seniors are selected if they add something to the site (for instance they create valuable tutorials, provide excellent help to beginners, new board activity, or provide in depth experince to the board). I can't really understand why members who get all this extra material would have anything against seniorization - unless it is that you are frustrated that you haven't been seniorized.

If that is the case, all you have to do is pm a moderator and they can give you a suggetsion on what you can do to be seniorized! Everyone is welcome!

This thread has had a quite depressive character - so I have taken the liberty to change its title to "I love GMC" - Jakub I hope you don't mind!

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 22 2008, 12:35 PM

Me being the TO.. I can quite without fear say, that I have strong feelings towards GMC and am quite dependant on it and I can really agree, that it saved my life quite a few times - if there were no GMC, I wont be playing guitar now (inspiration...), I wont jsut have had made up my 3rd solo in my life and I would also had NOTHING to do, while in depression.. Since I am heterosexual, I wont say, that I love it.. but for me it is second most precious thing in my life:) So if Ya want.. Yes.. I love this place:)

Oh and.. what can I do to be senior? I promise, I will be not ganking on anyone and be fair and honest and helpful and caring and sharing and everything else.. Or if not senior, what about GMC Judge? Now thats function, I would love to have

Oh.. just realized.. I am definietly NOT frustrated by not being senior:D

Posted by: Milenkovic Ivan Mar 22 2008, 12:35 PM

I support "I love GMC" title! It sounds so much better.

Also I agree with Kris 100% - If someone thinks that someone should be given a senior status or anything at all on the forum - please fell free to write it down or send it anonymously to management. You will help much more by doing this!

Also be aware that seniors - regardless how long they've been on the site - are doing the best they can to make this place a better place for all of us. It is quite well deserved if you ask me!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Mar 22 2008, 01:39 PM

Thats the spirit Jakub You need to find a way of helping people and showing a lead - you obviously have a love of GMC which is a pre-requisite Look at some of the seniors we have so far:

Micke - always helping people with Gear
Tony - always helping people with recording
Smells - started virtual bands and is making lessons

Find something that you can do to help everyone, and work on it, and Seniorhood is within your grasp - and that goes for everyone. Having seniors around is not intended to be elitist, it is intended to recognise the people that make GMC a better place. If we didn't have seniors or moderators, Kris would have to close down the forum, or stop looking for new instructors and developing the site as he can;t do it all on his own, so we need more Seniors, not less, but we won't create seniors just to have them, it has to be earned!

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 22 2008, 01:46 PM

I guess I'll be able to help with songwriting? I'll think about this all, hang around on forums (as ever..) and see what more can I do:) I like to be producer, rather than consumer, which I am now.. so this is a way for me:) thanks for kind words for now:) Btw.. huge THANKS for your theory lessons.. I fell in love with it So instead of fairy tale story..

Cheers,

Jakub

Posted by: Danilo Capezzuto Mar 22 2008, 01:50 PM

+1

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Mar 22 2008, 01:51 PM

You forgot Matt

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Mar 22 2008, 01:53 PM

Sounds cool Jakub, take Smells lead and figure out a way you can bring people together to work on this, look what Smells is doing with the virtual bands - maybe you can start a Songwriting group to feed the virtual bands, or run collaborations with?

Posted by: Muris Mar 22 2008, 02:06 PM

Love the new title,A LOT!!!

Seniors are doing great job,both for site improvements and community feel.

Posted by: Goliath Mar 22 2008, 02:23 PM

MickeM I have absolutely no desire to get seniority aside from getting GMC for free, but it's such a value as is that I really don't care about that that much either, and I assure you every bit of my gripe with the system is my own and I honestly couldn't care less whether I get support on it or not, the fact that I have gotten some shows you that the issue is indeed valid and not quite as trivial as you would suggest (everythign after the comma is from an edit, I reread your post and got a little more ticked at your obvious swift dismissal of an issue that is very real). Nor do I really want to appear as some champion of the forum masses airing grievances of GMC, this topic sort of derailed and turned into a topic like this several pages ago and I just jumped on. Then you go out on the bit about back patting, ROFL, which is at the very center of my gripe about it. You probably have a hard time seeing what I am saying because there is a bit of disconnect between you and just a joe-user who's paying to be here and odds are you don't notice it because you've become so used to it. Now as for coming to each other's aide, I feel that's not really a strong one since your seniors ARE the more active forum users and are seniors for PRECISELY that reason. This is no way a jab at you or a personal affront, but I can tell you're marginalizing my argument and you aren't getting WHY I made it in the first place, which is exactly what's wrong. You and I don't see eye to eye on many issues on the board, well that's pretty much limited to gear and off topic posts since those are the only places I really check, but I know we both have the civility to treat each other with respect, which is what a community is about. I don't need "forum popularity" (nor am I insinuating any senior/instructor/Kris does this) to measure my self worth, I take the GMC forums for what they are: a pleasant way to waste a few minutes at work here and again and a great way to interface with instructors and squeeze knowledge out of folks more experienced than myself.

As i mentioned pages and pages ago I am incredibly pleased with GMC, just think that a lot of times the senior system gets in the way of serious discussion because of your aforementioned "back patting".

And no I don't have a subscription anymore if anyone besides Kris has access to that, but it's not because I canceled it, but right after my 6 mos reupped my appt was broken into and check book stolen so I started a new bank account and have yet to link it back to paypal (I took some Rolaids and got rid of some of my GAS, no linked paypal acct is a nice added hurdle to keep me from shopping on ebay ). I assure you when the current 6 mo block lapses you will still see my smiling face at the lessons with a fresh shiny new 6 mo subscription

EDIT: And the seniors post farming with ridicule is pretty much the embodiment of what myself and others have talked about. You take a valid viewpoint then in your "good natured" responses pile on some posts creating an air that any sensible person shouldn't take these seriously all the while refusing to properly respond to the issue. Andrew is the only one that's come close in this thread.

Posted by: Jakub Luptovec Mar 22 2008, 03:15 PM

Hmm Andrew.. now thats a cool idea:) but I guess, they can write songs themselves.. And if they dont, I will gladly help them I found out, that my mind is extremly quick at producing ideas But if anybody wants, I can lead a songwriting collab.. just for fun.. it would surely be nice experience The question is, if there will be enough people interested.. I'll start a thread on this..

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 22 2008, 03:29 PM

matt just liked to fish......JK

Posted by: MickeM Mar 22 2008, 04:30 PM

Useless! I never said that. You're plain nasty. I stopped reading right there.

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 06:05 PM

Would have thought some people on this forum would have been mature enough to know when to drop it..

Who cares..

I made brownies!!

Posted by: leedbreak Mar 22 2008, 06:19 PM

Can I have one.

Posted by: Goliath Mar 22 2008, 06:27 PM

I can say I'm not surprised.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 22 2008, 06:28 PM

This should be delicious!

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 07:29 PM

They are.. .

I'll save some for you guys.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2008, 07:55 PM

I am laughing!! Your brownies are nothing compared to mine - I can't help but think I am much better at baking brownies than you!!

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Mar 22 2008, 08:05 PM

Ok, that's it - the next GMC competition is a brownie baking competition!

Posted by: skennington Mar 22 2008, 08:35 PM

In a cool shape of a guitar!

Posted by: Smells Mar 22 2008, 08:37 PM

and you should send all your entries to me to taste hmmmmmmmmm brownieees

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2008, 08:38 PM

Andrew I know you are saying that not because you think of the best for GMC - you just want to eat them (you can't fool me )

I also want to eat them!

...and so I do

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 22 2008, 08:39 PM

Ok thats the last straw...... Listen im really sick of this. So your not subscribing to Gmc again because you feel your being ganged up on , cool ! I dont know what you want out of this or who your trying to stand up for but all I know is this. Ultimate-Guitar.com has free sign-ups . There you can hold grudges on more people and maybe also meet some more p*ssed off folks while your at it. Sure I could have acted like you didnt hit a "Triple" and post 3 dumb posts in a row and I sure as h*ll could have smoothed it all over by posting a picture of a Googled Image Brownie-but if I see someone saying something wrong, I will call them out. I think the funny thing about Power is that on this site we put it into the people that deserve it. This is my online family and If you dont want any part of it, stop being rude and just LEAVE. .

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 08:40 PM

I'm laughing harder.

I can tell your mom helped! You are a better guitar player defiantly.. but! I do have the extra edge on making brownies.

And making brownies is more important to me anyways.

Posted by: Smells Mar 22 2008, 08:43 PM

Thats a fair comment as it happens






Are you also saying that you dont want brownies tho??

All the more for meeeee

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Mar 22 2008, 08:43 PM

You're just saying that because you haven't yet tasted the middle pieces. They would melt your mouth!

Posted by: Pablo Vazquez Mar 22 2008, 08:45 PM

Yeah!! They looks delicious!!

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 22 2008, 08:46 PM

Now all im saying is to much chocolate gives me a tummy ache

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 08:46 PM

Middle pieces are for girly men. The outsides are for real ones..

Guess which pieces I like.. The outside pieces. Again.. you can't beat me at my own brownie making game.

Posted by: Smells Mar 22 2008, 08:48 PM

Phew, I thought for a minute there I`d have to give up some to share out

Posted by: MickeM Mar 22 2008, 08:53 PM

Competition!!!

Can I have a badge saying "judge"?

Posted by: Tjchep Mar 22 2008, 08:54 PM

I'll make you a badge saying "judge" if you make me a badge saying "Winner"

Posted by: MickeM Mar 22 2008, 09:26 PM

*whispers* deal

:-D

Posted by: Smikey2006 Mar 22 2008, 10:09 PM

yum i think we shud have a real competition everyone bakes brownies and posts a picture the most delicious looking wins and to prove you didn't just google it.. add GMC somewhere in the picture.. maybe even incorporate gmc into the brownies .. then everyone eats their respective brownies.. and GMC's happyness level raises 5 points because everyone knows that brownies = yummy and yummy in the tummy = happyness

Posted by: rokchik Mar 22 2008, 11:22 PM

The Great GMC Bake-Off

Sounds yummmy

Posted by: botoxfox Mar 22 2008, 11:51 PM

I've been making bacon and eggs for breakfast every day this easter. A bit unhealthy I guess, but it tastes soooo good.

Posted by: SLASH91 Mar 23 2008, 12:25 AM

+1, thankyou

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 23 2008, 12:54 AM

Maybe I shouldn't say this as a mod...

But as a member - thanks Eat-Sleep-andJam - I was starting to feel like people hated me.

Many thanks,
Tony

ps - my little girl will win any bake off

Posted by: Eat-Sleep-andJam Mar 23 2008, 01:09 AM

Yup



Tony we dont hate you.....but we hate that your daughter is a better brownie baker then us

Posted by: tonymiro Mar 23 2008, 01:14 AM

Mwahahaha

***btw - who's judging the comp? ***

Posted by: Smells Mar 23 2008, 01:32 AM

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ....... aww go on pls *tucks in napkin , bring on the brownies!!*

Posted by: Slammer Mar 23 2008, 01:35 AM

Pff...

What's all this talk about brownies.

My Cookies Pwn!!!

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=6864&st=0&p=62056&#entry62056