Help With My Tone/mix Please |
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Mar 24 2016, 08:28 PM
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Hello folks,
Please take a listen to this file, no need to think about the playing, I was just throwing some ideas around but how can I make the guitar sound better in the mix? Pictures of settings are below, the "Mid Edge" knob on the Hotbird is switched on and it gives + 7db (6db/oct) from 300 to 2.5K Hz (Whatever that means but that's what the bloke who made it said  ). Only the knobs without the circle around them are in use. The clipping is set to amber, this gives "soft symmetrical clipping, for a particularly impressive distortion with a noticeable volume increase compared to other clipping, and extremely dynamic from which it is possible to obtain overdrive sounds". Bass lift/boost is off and it is in the vintage setting.https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-3-take-8-blues-scale     Thanks for your help folks, I'm away for four days from tomorrow so you have plenty of time to ponder Cheers, I really appreciate your help and guidance
-------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE  “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 27 2016, 05:40 PM
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Thanks Chris,
It all helps, I find it hard getting a balanced sound, I've not done much though. I wonder how the big boys get on when they get a guitar tone that they like but it doesn't cut it in the mix. Cheers buddy -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 27 2016, 09:38 PM
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Can you hear a slight "echo"? I had the USB emulated out, the xlr emulated out and my SM57 all at the same time. I'm sure I can hear a tiny delay but it might be in my head.
Thanks for your input folks, I appreciate it 
This post has been edited by Phil66: Mar 28 2016, 09:13 AM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 29 2016, 08:50 PM
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Hello folks,
Another snippit from the applied theory workshop. Sorry the playing is so bad, it is improvised and I just don't know where my fingers are going, they certainly don't do what I have in my head  I altered the amp setting as in the pic, I had to go to the drive channel as I'm not using the pedal, and the guitar is set on neck pickup (humbucker) with treble all the way up and the volume just under half way. I've included the main track and also the backing with the guitar only through the SM57, and only through the emulated XLR output just in case it helps.  https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/assignment-3-take-10-blues-scale https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/sm57-only https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/xlr-out-only -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 29 2016, 10:24 PM
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Thanks Darius and Mertay,
I don't really understand how to use a compressor, I don't have a hardware compressor either but I do have Amplitube if that helps. The peak meters for the xlr and sm57 were peaking within half a db of each other both set central in the mix. The backing track is HERE The guitar is a Mexican Fender HSH Strat. I'll send you the raw SM57 track tomorrow Darius. Thank you both so much for your help and guidance I really appreciate it but my ears are slow to develop. Cheers Phil
-------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 30 2016, 07:48 AM
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Thanks Chris,
I've messed about with them before but maybe I was expecting something different. Cheers buddy. Phil
-------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 30 2016, 12:46 PM
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Thanks Chris
Just bought it
This post has been edited by Phil66: Mar 30 2016, 12:47 PM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Mar 31 2016, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 29 2016, 09:33 PM)  The hardest part is...right next to gear settings...the arrange. If you have a dense backing track, you need to react to it. That's how we make music....we listen to other instruments and we sort of feel the gaps. Of course the is always a way to somehow fix this in the mix but at the first stage we ALWASY listen how and what to play to make it sound good with the mix. That's what I would start with. Second thing....your guitar volume from sm57 only sample is simply too low. When we use very dynamics type of tone and playing, while the backing track is fully packed in the midrange by other instruments, we need to use a compression or....totally different type of tone. One of the reason old Fender and MArshall amps (I'm not saying only those) where in use for blues playing is, the feel exactly the frequency space around the piano and brass basis - more high midrange than the "warm body of 500 to 1000 Hz". I'm not able to sayt how much you can do with your amp since I do not know this particular one. Actually in your case I would say it's not the guiatr that is a problem. Backing track sound very warm, raw , like before mastering (some do the mid cut at the mixing stage though). Drums are full of mids and other instruemnts as well. Your guitar sound ok....dry but ok frequency-wise. If this was my mix and I would not be able to modify the backing, I would add at least 3 dB to guitar track volume and launch the compressor. You can set the ratio between 3:1 to 4:1. Now important..before touching the guitar volume, yopu need to set the treshold properly. Make sure the compressor cuts the volume of those most "peaking" notes. Moat of compressor do visualize when and how deep they react. It's worth looking at this. When I'm done with treshold, I usual;ly turn off and on the compressor and compare if my average volume is similar - both raw and compressed signals. That's when I adjust compressor output level. I think your sm57 tone is a good basis to work with. I would stick to this one. If you need any help. Attach your raw guitar wav from sm57 and backing track. I'll mix it down and write you what I did to make it work Thanks Darius 
SM57_guitar_only.wav ( 14.21MB )
Number of downloads: 68
12_Bar_Blues_Blues_backing_track_in_A_major_scale__A_minor_scale.mp3 ( 879.92K )
Number of downloads: 55Looking forward to it Cheers Phil -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Apr 1 2016, 02:32 PM
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Hey Phil! Here are my suggestions.
1. Here is just an example of compression setting I would use for this sample  Keep in mind that peak/rms has a lot to do with those settings. You might want to use alot lower treshold level if you will use peak only analysis 2. Your SM57 tone is quite descent - warm, not harsh, not boomy. I think you can easily stick to it 3. You tone does not cut through the mix because it's very responsive to dynamics - very little overdriven. Notice that only lower notes get lost in the mix...that's because they are being covered with piano and "body" of the drums. Properly arranged solo would cut through that mix without a need of additional operations in the mix 4. You can add a little more gain - natural compression will get involved and not only the level but the tone of those lower notes would be a little more even comparing to those higher notes. I will stick mostly to the ability of good match of the solo, to the backing track thing. That's how it works in a real life. If you've been pluged into your amp and play that thing with the real band (the same instrumentarium) you will notice it's you have have to rethink your part to make it work with the band There are some tools but I can't see nothing wrong with your tone Also.....your playing is very rhythmic - a lot of ultra short notes. You can boost their "cut through" by using proper reverb That's what I came up with trying not to overload the track with guitar and to not overload the guitar with reverb
phill_compression_sample.mp3 ( 1.15MB )
Number of downloads: 59backing track is at -7dB and the guitar track at -2dB (never count 5dB as a proportion difference - we do not hear linear volume increasement). That's why I post particular values. |
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Apr 1 2016, 08:26 PM
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Thanks Darius,
I can hear exactly what you mean, it is much more present without being "in your face". I'll have to learn a bit more about this as it does seem a very useful tool. It seems to smooth out the highs and lows. Would I be best getting a hardware compressor or will software be ok? I'm just thinking that hardware is happening right at the moment but I don't really understand it all to be honest. I don't understand this comment "Keep in mind that peak/rms has a lot to do with those settings. You might want to use alot lower treshold level if you will use peak only analysis". Sorry. I have this compressor, which is supposed to be good:  I also have this eq but can't really figure it out but it too is supposed to be very good.  Thanks again for your help, I really do appreciate it UPDATE: I've had another go at the Theory thing tonight so here is the SC for that. It may sound odd because I'm only playing the A7 arpeggio in the relevant parts to get the notes into my fingers I used the RED3 compressor and had to guess at some of the settings because the numbers are different, ie, yours says Release 500, I assume that is 500ms so I selected .5 seconds. The image shows everything, The guitar is SM57 only and is on track 8.https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/a7-arpeggio  Thanks again Darius, Mertay and Chris This post has been edited by Phil66: Apr 1 2016, 11:03 PM -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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Apr 2 2016, 09:46 AM
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Thanks Todd,
What I tend do do is turn knobs all the way up and all the way down to find out what they do but it's understanding the interaction between everything that I struggle with, my ears aren't that good yet either as well as being a tiny bit deaf, ( to many rock concerts and race tracks and working in a factory for over thirty years )Cheers buddy -------------------- SEE MY GMC CERTIFICATE “Success is not obtained overnight. It comes in instalments; you get a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow until the whole package is given out. The day you procrastinate, you lose that day's success.” Israelmore Ayivor |
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