chords and scales
the kladdkaka of...
Jan 29 2007, 01:33 AM
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From: sweden
hello this is my first day at masterclass ^^ and i have a little question, how do i know what scales i can play over diffrent chords? Like if i play an E major scale then i can play an e major chord and lots of other one's but how do i know which of them to play?

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beebo
Jan 29 2007, 01:55 AM
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good question huh.gif hmmmmm....

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ezravdb
Jan 29 2007, 02:00 AM
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the relative minor tongue.gif (actually the same)

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Kristofer Dahl
Jan 29 2007, 07:48 PM
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Posts: 17.409
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
QUOTE (the kladdkaka of shredd @ Jan 29 2007, 01:33 AM) *
hello this is my first day at masterclass ^^ and i have a little question, how do i know what scales i can play over diffrent chords? Like if i play an E major scale then i can play an e major chord and lots of other one's but how do i know which of them to play?


This is a motivated question and gmc obviously lacks this information - until we have fixed this lesson issue, does anyone want to give a shot at a brief explanation?

Kris

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ezravdb
Jan 29 2007, 09:53 PM
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Well first of all al the other modes which contain the same notes.
G# phrygian for example. or F# dorian etc.

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This post has been edited by ezravdb: Jan 29 2007, 09:53 PM


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raqroso
Jan 30 2007, 03:03 AM
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From: Portland, OR USA
I'll take a shot at answering the question about what chords to play over
a scale:

A Scale generally contains 7 notes.

You build chords off these notes.

In the Key of E the notes in the Major scale are

1 = E
2 = F#
3 = G#
4 = A
5 = B
6 = C#
7 = D#

The chords (triads really) built off these notes follow a simple formula:

In a major scale:
the 1,4,5 chords are major triad/chords. E...A...B
the 2,3,6 chords are minor triads/chords. F#..G#..C#
the 7th is diminished. D# dim

So in the key of E the chords are: E,F#m, G#m,A,B,C#m,D# dim

Building the chords that are made from a scale is called "harmonizing the scale"
This is what you do to find out what chords go with the scale.

You write down the notes in the scale you are playing.

Then you go thru each note and take the root, 3, and 5 to get the triad (the three notes) that make up the basic part of the chord that matches your scale.

Look at the example above where the notes and the numbers are layed out and you see:

E root + the third note from E + the 5th note from E
is.... E,G#,B = those are the notes of an E major triad

F# root + the third note from F# + the 5th note from F#
is... F#, A, C# = those are the notes of an F#minor triad

You can do this with any scale to find chords to go with it.

Musical styles follow general guidelines (know the rules before you break them I guess)

Blues in E is generally a 1,4,5 chord progression (E-A-cool.gif
perhaps with the E minor pentatonic scale played under it.

A Rock progression might be a 2,5,1 progression (F#m-B-E)
with the E major scale played under it or E maj pentatonic
or C#m pentatonic scale

There are infinite combinations and no right or wrong except what your ear tells you.

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Kristofer Dahl
Jan 30 2007, 04:02 AM
GMC Founder
Posts: 17.409
Joined: 15-August 05
From: Stockholm, Sweden
QUOTE ([email protected] @ Jan 30 2007, 03:03 AM) *
I'll take a shot at answering the question about what chords to play over
a scale:

A Scale generally contains 7 notes.

You build chords off these notes.

In the Key of E the notes in the Major scale are

1 = E
2 = F#
3 = G#
4 = A
5 = B
6 = C#
7 = D#

The chords (triads really) built off these notes follow a simple formula:

In a major scale:
the 1,4,5 chords are major triad/chords. E...A...B
the 2,3,6 chords are minor triads/chords. F#..G#..C#
the 7th is diminished. D# dim

So in the key of E the chords are: E,F#m, G#m,A,B,C#m,D# dim

Building the chords that are made from a scale is called "harmonizing the scale"
This is what you do to find out what chords go with the scale.

You write down the notes in the scale you are playing.

Then you go thru each note and take the root, 3, and 5 to get the triad (the three notes) that make up the basic part of the chord that matches your scale.

Look at the example above where the notes and the numbers are layed out and you see:

E root + the third note from E + the 5th note from E
is.... E,G#,B = those are the notes of an E major triad

F# root + the third note from F# + the 5th note from F#
is... F#, A, C# = those are the notes of an F#minor triad

You can do this with any scale to find chords to go with it.

Musical styles follow general guidelines (know the rules before you break them I guess)

Blues in E is generally a 1,4,5 chord progression (E-A-cool.gif
perhaps with the E minor pentatonic scale played under it.

A Rock progression might be a 2,5,1 progression (F#m-B-E)
with the E major scale played under it or E maj pentatonic
or C#m pentatonic scale

There are infinite combinations and no right or wrong except what your ear tells you.


Ragroso - this is not the first thoroughly prepared answer you give us - thanks a bunch!! biggrin.gif

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BollyRotten
Jan 31 2007, 12:13 AM
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Posts: 306
Joined: 29-September 05
From: Coventry, ENGLAND
what an answer! someware along the lines i had forgot some of this theory. cheers

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Guitar1969
Jan 31 2007, 05:30 AM
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Posts: 346
Joined: 30-October 06
From: Southern California
QUOTE ([email protected] @ Jan 29 2007, 06:03 PM) *
I'll take a shot at answering the question about what chords to play over
a scale:

A Scale generally contains 7 notes.

You build chords off these notes.

In the Key of E the notes in the Major scale are

1 = E
2 = F#
3 = G#
4 = A
5 = B
6 = C#
7 = D#

The chords (triads really) built off these notes follow a simple formula:

In a major scale:
the 1,4,5 chords are major triad/chords. E...A...B
the 2,3,6 chords are minor triads/chords. F#..G#..C#
the 7th is diminished. D# dim

So in the key of E the chords are: E,F#m, G#m,A,B,C#m,D# dim

Building the chords that are made from a scale is called "harmonizing the scale"
This is what you do to find out what chords go with the scale.

You write down the notes in the scale you are playing.

Then you go thru each note and take the root, 3, and 5 to get the triad (the three notes) that make up the basic part of the chord that matches your scale.

Look at the example above where the notes and the numbers are layed out and you see:

E root + the third note from E + the 5th note from E
is.... E,G#,B = those are the notes of an E major triad

F# root + the third note from F# + the 5th note from F#
is... F#, A, C# = those are the notes of an F#minor triad

You can do this with any scale to find chords to go with it.

Musical styles follow general guidelines (know the rules before you break them I guess)

Blues in E is generally a 1,4,5 chord progression (E-A-cool.gif
perhaps with the E minor pentatonic scale played under it.

A Rock progression might be a 2,5,1 progression (F#m-B-E)
with the E major scale played under it or E maj pentatonic
or C#m pentatonic scale

There are infinite combinations and no right or wrong except what your ear tells you.


Great Answer (Right on), but if this new member is new to guitar as well, I think the answer here may be a bit too advanced for him.

The short answer to starting to fiddle with scales is this - you can play a scale that relates to the key of the chord progression you are playing(not the other way around). The scale should match the chords, not the other way around(As per your initial question) - since usually a lead guitarist is trying to come up with a lick to fit the rest of the bands chord progression

So in this example above - If you are playing a chord progression of E A B, that is the key of E(Per the scale that was mapped out above) you could use any box scale(such as a pentatonic based upon the E major chord, which is also the same thing a C#m scale(since it is the relative minor-the 6th position in the scale)- The scale is defined by the root note for both minor and major Here at GMC the most common scale we see is the pentatonic scale (And they usually refer to it as the minor pentatonic) - On the low E string , the root note for the C#m is on the 9th fret, and the major root(E) is the 12th fret.

My intent was to simplify this, but maybe I made it more confusing. When first starting, the hardest thing for me was understanding that each scale can be known in terms of a major scale and a minor scale, but they are one in the same but have a different root note.

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This post has been edited by Guitar1969: Jan 31 2007, 05:32 AM


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raqroso
Feb 2 2007, 08:24 AM
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Posts: 57
Joined: 7-October 06
From: Portland, OR USA
No.. not confusing...
I think you improved on what I wrote....

You are so right:

He is thinking: "I have a scale, now what chords should I play"

Most situations it is the opposite: "I have these chords, now what scale can I play"

Maybe that is the real lesson here.


Kladdkaka of shredd: If you need more I'm glad to help offline..
talking theory helps me reinforce my loose grasp of it..

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