Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 01:21 PM

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time

Hi there GMC,
maybe some of you know that the famous rollingstone magazine likes to create a ranking list of the best guitarist of all time. Well, It really drives me mad because alone the idea of ranking guitarist is just absolutely senseless. So let alone that some guitarist are rated top (where you think What is Kurt doing up here) and some low (What is Eddie doing down there?) some great guitarists are not even listed! So what is the criterion for that list ??Do you also think that it is just absolute nonsense to create such a list ?
Like to read your comments...

Posted by: Marcus Lavendell Apr 27 2008, 01:30 PM

Absolute nonsense imo....

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 01:32 PM

imo...?What do you mean ?

Posted by: Canis Apr 27 2008, 01:35 PM

You're right. That looks more like a "100 most influencible(?) guitarists" ... Not even that! Jack White is up on #17, while Mark Knopller is all the way down on #27? Since when is Jack White a better guitarist then him?
Slash and Eric Johnson isn't even on the list...

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 01:41 PM

Yeah, it all doesn't make sense. Still looking for Yngwie....

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Apr 27 2008, 01:43 PM

imo means In My Opinion.

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 01:44 PM

ah ok..I see...wasn't familiar with this abbreviation

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Apr 27 2008, 01:47 PM

It's ok. You may also see imho which means In My Honest Opinion.

I think some cool names appear on that list that don't get so much credit like Kim Thayll but on the whole the list is silly. Kurt Cobain would have been laughing as even he admitted he was far from the best guitarist He was an amazing songwriter I think though.

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 01:56 PM

Yeah, for sure he was...(R.I.P)...who's Kim Thayll...let's have a look...

Posted by: Sam Hook Apr 27 2008, 02:03 PM

Where's Steve Vai and Joe Satriani?

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 02:18 PM

Are you kidding? Those guys are naturally NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get on that list

Posted by: Nemanja Filipovic Apr 27 2008, 02:19 PM

The only explenation that I see is that people voted,and the reason for there vote was not speed or some thing elese,but the love that they haw to the band or the artist...

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 02:21 PM

Yes, but even if this list was created by votings...it's a strange result...

Posted by: Canis Apr 27 2008, 02:40 PM

It's impossible to have a "correct" list like that. There are 6 billion people on the planet, and with that comes 6 billion diffrent tastes of music. So one persons image of a "perfect list" is not anothers

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 02:43 PM

Indeed, and that's the reason why you shouldn't create such a list in the first place..

Posted by: Danilo Capezzuto Apr 27 2008, 02:47 PM

Bleahh Shame on this list.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Apr 27 2008, 02:54 PM

He is the guitarist for Soundgarden.

Posted by: The Uncreator Apr 27 2008, 03:08 PM

No disrespect to Hendrix, But im so sick and tired and him just being put up in those lists at number #1, It comes out of habit it seems, like the only way to have a list if is Hendrix is number 1.

Then again this list is rather pathetic,

Iommi #86....... Thats just sad.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Apr 27 2008, 03:11 PM

Having Iommi in a top 100 guitarist list is laughable.

Another influential great riff writer but anybody can play the stuff.

Posted by: Canis Apr 27 2008, 03:16 PM

Maybe they made the list saying: "These guys did it first"

Posted by: Slammer Apr 27 2008, 03:17 PM

LOL

Man, I don't remember how many Discussions I've been in on forums since this list came out.

But the Thing that I always never liked was Jack White from the White Stripes at #17!

They put him in Front of all these other Great guitarists like Eddie Van Halen at #70!

It's defintely more of a Pop contest, Or... who the writer of that list liked better then everyone else.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Apr 27 2008, 03:53 PM

The list is utter crap. Jimi Hendrix shouldn't even be in a top 100 list, no offense. The only thing I think is good about this list is the fact that EVH is number 70, where he should be, he is sooooooo overrated, almost as overrated as Jimi Hendrix, I saw him live in Feb, and literally there is NOTHING special about EVH, trust me, NOTHING, he is a completely average guitarist.

Number 1 and 2 should be John Petrucci and Chris Broderick respectively, although I don't know what they mean by "Greatest Guitarist?" Greatest songwriter? Fastest? Most diverse? What? Where the hell is Steve Morse? Yngwie? Marty Friedman? Jason Becker? What the hell this list is so biased it isn't even funny, it was created by a hardcore Rock n' Roll fan with some blues influence.

Tom Morello at 27. Lmfao. Rofl, what about Michael Angelo Batio?? Who TAUGHT him to PLAY guitar??? OMG this list makes me cringe. Yea so, he can tap a pen across his strings, rub his hands, and make stupid sounds, now all a sudden, EXTREMELY CREATIVE guitarist!

And may I ask why Duane Allman is #2 and Dickey Betts is #58? Anyone in their right mind with an unbiased opinion would realize that Duane Allman released like 1 or 2 albums whereas Dickey Betts wrote tons and tons and tons of songs, solos, and was 50x the guitarist that Duane Allman WAS. Now Duane could have potentially been better, had he not died, but his death after showing hardly any of his skills inhibits that. Dickey Betts is way better.

Posted by: Mark. Apr 27 2008, 04:08 PM

I guess this list is made by someone who doesn't play guitar, most people who don't play guitar think a guitarist is a good guitarist when he writes nice songs, not when he is techniqual skilled. Also if you don't play guitar names as Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Michael Angelo Batio say nothing to you, so why would you put them in a list then.

This list is pure crap, it's just like you let a guitarist make the top 100 trompet players

Posted by: shellshock1911 Apr 27 2008, 04:12 PM

Exactly, so it should be titled greatest SONGWRITER, which even then it would be major flawed. Like I said, Dickey Betts wrote nearly every Allman Brothers song for the majority of their career, and I am not even sure if Duane Allman even wrote ONE song, if he did, it was hardly any due to his death, but SOMEHOW, Duane gets #2 and Dickey gets #58. I think the death factor plays a big roll in this list, if a guitarist dies, all of a sudden he was one of the greatest ever. For example, Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman, Robert Johnson, and Kurt Cobain and primarily on the list simply because they existed and died.

Posted by: Gus Apr 27 2008, 04:56 PM

No one can name greatest guitarists, because every one has a different opinion. We should at most name most favorite guitarists...

That rolling stone list seems to be senseless. The lack of Slash there proves that. You don't need to like Slash to argue that he should be in any top 100th guitarist list whatever is the name: "100 greatest guitarists", "100 Most famous guitarists", "100 most influential guitarists" or even "100 most stylish guitarists".
I mean, Steve Vai and Satriani not being in the list means whoever did the list doesn't understand anything about guitars. But Slash is way too famous to go unseen by who made that list...

If you want to see how people vote:
http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/greatest-guitarists-ever.asp
It is not a surprise Joe Satriani and Steve Vai are not on the first spots. They are arguably amongst the most technical and talented, but they are not the most famous. And that is what polls are about...

About Jimmy Hendrix he does deserve a good spot, but I think most people vote on him just vote because they heard he is the best, and not for listening to his recordings...

Posted by: Trond Vold Apr 27 2008, 06:03 PM

That was a silly list..
There's no Vai, Satriani, Petrucci, Friedman or Becker..

and Angus Young is all the way down on 96??

Posted by: Smikey2006 Apr 27 2008, 06:23 PM

yea this list is jokes.. made me laugh and cry a little.. imo.. hendrix is way over rated.. same with slash i think.. this whole " put feeling in your playing" thing is over rated.. not to say these guys weren't good.. but if no one has realised it.. "feeling" is the choice to add bends and vibrato and to play notes that are very melodic.. anyone can play with feeling, others choose to shred.. its a choice, not a reason to say.. slash is better than buckethead because slash had "feeling". If this list was to suggest the top 100 guitarists of all time then grounds have to be layed..

Song writing ability
Technicality
Precision
Ingenuity
originality.

i have no problem with giving a guitarist like hendrix and slash a good rating because they were both good and original.. but to say best guitarist you cannot forget to give credit to people who are technically incredible such as rusty, vai, satch, eric johnson, Malmasteen, Petrucci, Batio....

overall.. the list is rediculous.. BB king owns most of these ppls anyways

Posted by: Pablo Vazquez Apr 27 2008, 06:42 PM

I have a best idea "The 100 most stupid magazines and lists of all time" !!

Posted by: Gus Apr 27 2008, 07:20 PM

I agree about your general observations, but pretty much disagree about the feeling stuff.
Not everyone can play with feeling. Also not every one can shred, and other people do shred with feeling. And those who can play with feeling do it in very different ways.(after all feeling comes from inside )
David Gilmour or Slash are amongst my favorites, while shredders with no feeling look impressive to me, but I really don't listen to then that often.

The only problem is that rating feeling is totally subjective.

Posted by: Canis Apr 27 2008, 07:21 PM

Which one makes the #1? "Top 100 Guitarists of all Time" or "Top 100 Fertilizers of all time"

Posted by: Fsgdjv Apr 27 2008, 07:47 PM

Complaining on a f***ing list is about as stupid as making it like that. There is no proper way of measuring who's the best guitarist etc, so if they think this, let them do that. It's just a list, get over it.

Posted by: Lian Gerbino Apr 27 2008, 07:51 PM

yeah.... who knows this guys.....

incredible doesnt it?



_______________________________________________________________________
visit my http://www.myspace.com/tersivelto know about me

my http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guitar/luca-turilli-style-lesson/

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 07:56 PM

No I can't get over that list...it really drives me crazy...I think I won't get sleep tonight because of that list

Posted by: g-forcelover Apr 27 2008, 07:58 PM

Hey, check out who they put as #70!

Please tell me you were kidding

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 08:03 PM

These names and "not good" in the same breath is a contradiction in itself...

Posted by: shellshock1911 Apr 27 2008, 08:53 PM

What is emotion? What is feeling? There is no definition. Yes, everyone can, and does play with feeling, if I feel emotionally connected to my music, who can tell me that I am not? Feeling is 100% in the listener, so there is no way to measure it. There is no such thing as shredders with no feeling. Once again, define feeling. And if shredders were not passionate about guitar, why would they spend thousands of hours perfecting their technique when guitarists with "emotion" and "feeling" have spent little to none?

Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling. No song in the world makes me more happy than a Dragonforce song, happiness is an emotion. That is the thing, emotion in music is far more complex and diverse than people who claim there is "no feeling" in a select few players make it out to be.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Apr 27 2008, 08:57 PM

These lists are absolutely ridiculous

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 27 2008, 08:59 PM

I also think that you can put a lot of feeling in all kind of technique stuff... Gary Moore is a great example how much feeling he puts in a simple bend ...but you can definetely put a lot of feeling in shred stuff too...

Posted by: fkalich Apr 27 2008, 09:12 PM

You mean, Johnny Ramone at #16, and those guys left off, you have a problem with that?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9kOamgaU0&feature=related

Well, the Ramones never made me yawn like all those guys, and they did invent punk. There are videos from the early 70's that demonstrate that it was the Ramones that invented punk, no question about it, evidence is clearly there.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Apr 27 2008, 09:18 PM

If you want the list based on that criteria, well Joe Satch and Steve Vai pretty much made the genre of Melodic Shred, and John Petrucci helped create Progressive Metal. And yawn? http://youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI

And even if the list was based on most creative as far as making genres go, punk is more than just the guitar, which is pretty much just simple barchord/powerchord rhythms, but this is the best GUITARIST list, not songwriter, whatever.

Posted by: JVM Apr 27 2008, 09:25 PM

Disclaimer: shellshock, a lot of this isn't really directed specifically at you, but I'm just quoting you to start and then I'll probably ramble off on some other stuff

I see both camps. I think a lot of pro shred people make a good point about how people who play with "emotion" are not really any more special than people who shred, but then they (some) go on to make a point that is completely incorrect IMO, and their point is that due to the first point, shredders are better. That's not true. I guarantee you that a lot of old school blues players put as much if not more practice into their art than shredders do. They practice different things though. They might practice writing a song or improvising by jamming with their friends for hours a day, where a shredder might practice their sweep picking for the same amount of time. Every time you play it's practice.

I'm not saying that non-shredders are better than shredders or the other way around, I'm saying there's no difference. When a player is good at something, they're good. The amount of hours put into it doesn't make it better. You can be a technically amazing player who is incapable of writing a good song and you can be a technically yawn worthy player who writes a simple three chord song in 5 minutes that is really good. The amount you practice your guitar doesn't correlate to how good you are at it, it correlates to how big your chest of tools to choose from is (vocabulary) and how up to date your tools are (proficiency/efficiency), if thats not the worst analogy in the world.

When we think of a guitar player who has "emotion" we mean they are really good at playing certain notes that are very pleasing to our ear which trigger emotional responses. That takes just as much practice as learning to shred, it's a choice. There's a reason that I've never heard and probably never will hear dragonforce do a good blues song. The reason is twofold, first because they don't want to And secondly because even though they could technically do it by choosing the right notes and such, that's not all there is to it. They don't have the experience and practice to write a classic blues song. They can emulate it, but that's it. It's not their style.

Also I'd like to point out something you said shellshock. "Shred creates a different type of feeling in me than blues, jazz or whatever. Blues and jazz is more of laid back to sad, soulful feeling, while shred creates a high-energy feeling."

Maybe thats for you but I find it hard to believe that every blues song creates a laid back and or sad soulful feeling, or that shred creates high energy feeling. I can name a number of dirty, nasty high energy blues songs and a number of sad soulful laid back shred tunes. There is no set emotion attached to certain genres.

In the end though I agree that the list is totally useless and leaves out many great players, and that I love all kinds of music

Posted by: fkalich Apr 27 2008, 09:39 PM

they are not judging it by gmc worshiped guitar god standards. those guys are so unknown to the general public. there is a reason for it. they are boring to most people. they even bore me, and I play guitar as much as anybody around here, and shred in my fashion. but most people just find them boring. it takes more than just being a virtuoso to be interesting. i will take an interesting 3 chord guy over a pretentious guitar god any time.

van halen being at 70 was because most people identify that band to closely with DLR. Same with Slash and Axel. But it was a list of guitarists the readers like. And probably pretty accurate by that criteria.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Apr 27 2008, 09:46 PM

Dream Theater has sold 10 million albums, so someone must know about them. And most of these shredders are actually pretty well known in places like Japan, where Malmsteen, for example has a huge fan base. And I believe that 4 of his albums were in the top 100 for sales for like 10 years, so no, they aren't soooo unknown to the general public as it might appear, if the U.S. was the entire world, it might be that way.

Posted by: Gus Apr 27 2008, 11:43 PM

Well, you are in fact right. The words "no", "never" and "ever" are always too strong. So, "no feeling" is over-exaggeration.

I just wanted to point out that playing as fast as possible is not the objective of everyone with a guitar. In fact I am right now spending more time on the bend+vibrato than on notes per minute. Actually, I find bend+vibrato a tricky technique to master... All over the fretboard, in different guitars, with fixed or floating bridge... In each of them is a little different. And bending removes the limits of the well tempered instrument... So many possibilities...

I see no problem in going fast, in fact I think it is really good to go all the way to it.
I just love songs like Fade to Black, One, November Rain and Estranged where it starts very slowly and builds up all the way to a climax.

By the way, I do like Dragon force...

Posted by: Col Roberts Apr 28 2008, 09:08 AM

What inspired this list? Alvin Lee not in the top 100 .... what's going on?
Here's a taste of Alvin Lee if you haven't heard of him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj3uIlpPIVU&feature=related

Posted by: Mark. Apr 28 2008, 09:29 AM

Jeez I hate all this crap about rating a guitarist on his emotional stuff;
Do I suddenly become a good guitarist when I play some bends on the right time and pretend that I got to cry?
Should you be an emo to become a good guitarist or something ?
I think that you should jugde every sort of music for yourself and not for others.
And that you should jugde it by listening to it, not by the stage preformance of the musician.
If 3 chords please you then that's fine for you, or if 100000 notes per second is the thing for you, fine!
Just don't try to convince the other what is better and Dont make a list of who is the best!


All this crap about what is better is totally pointless; it's all personal opinion and there is no right or wrong.

Posted by: Nighthawk Apr 28 2008, 10:38 AM

The reason why I came up with that stupid list was that I was reading a wiki article about john frusicante and it was said in there that he was rated number 13 or so of the 100 greatest guitarist by the rolling stone magazine...so I wondered but that list is...and if wiki refers to that list...it must be something serious....which we all know now is utter crap !

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Apr 28 2008, 03:20 PM

12 Kurt Cobain of Nirvana

16 Johnny Ramone of the Ramones


Oh, I thought we were talking about guitarrists
(sorry, I hate both !! )

Posted by: Pablo Vazquez Apr 29 2008, 08:44 PM

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Apr 29 2008, 08:45 PM

rofl... Kurt Cobain on 12 and David Gilmour on sixtysomething? yeah right...

Posted by: Pi38 Apr 29 2008, 08:57 PM

Am I the only one who noticed that Paul Gilbert ISN'T EVEN LISTED!!? He's one of the best IMO, and I think it's an atrocity that he isn't even mentioned.

Posted by: g-forcelover Apr 29 2008, 09:13 PM

Did anyone notice that Muris isn't on there?

Posted by: Canis May 1 2008, 01:54 PM

That's the #1 evidence that list is fake!

Posted by: Fsgdjv May 1 2008, 01:59 PM

Yeah, you do.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion May 1 2008, 02:01 PM

I think Kurt Cobain deserves to be in there but not at number 12. He inspired thousands of people to pick up the guitar. Surely that is the sign of a decent guitarist.

Posted by: Jeff May 1 2008, 02:11 PM

So all of the first 69 people here are better than Eddie Van Halen.

RS must have some good drugs.

Posted by: bsamn May 1 2008, 02:37 PM

hehe.......stupid list......cool posts

Posted by: mattacuk May 1 2008, 03:17 PM

No Paul Gilbert, no Yngwie? No bucket?

Im sure the writers are not guitarist. No matter we know better

Posted by: blindwillie May 1 2008, 05:02 PM

yeah, that was the first guy I saw was missing


Haha. Yes, that was a BIG error.


I know this is not recommended anymore but:

+1

I have nothing to add to that.

Posted by: LasseToftDK May 5 2008, 07:56 PM

He was the lead guitarist of Soundgarden. Quite an interesting playing style. But rather weird sometimes

Posted by: blindwillie May 6 2008, 02:15 PM

Haha, same here :A

Posted by: Torben May 6 2008, 10:51 PM

What is it, that make people want to rank all sorts of things? The only argument for insisting doing a thing like that would be the reason "Well, I don't know which red wine is the best in the world. But I'm having a ball trying to find it out!" It hardly applies to guitarists or?

Victor Wooten (a famous bass player) said something like this: "A little baby can make sounds on my bass, that I didn't even know existed. All this discussion about who is the best bass player is just nonsense" I, for one, totally agree.

Is Segovia a better guitarist than Django Reinhard? Or Jimi Hendrix? Nothing wrong with these amazing guitarplayers. But it's a wrong question!

When you experience the sublime, don't try to understand it (read: rank it..). Just flow along with it and enjoy!

Posted by: Daniel Robinson May 6 2008, 11:39 PM

Lol Kurt Kobain and Johnny Ramone


If they are gonna add jokers like that where is Eddie Ojeda from Twisted Sister,

How bout Mick Mars from Motley Crue?


I know...lets make a top 100 list of guitarists that annoy us, that would be easier to do.



Daniel

Posted by: Vic_Black May 7 2008, 02:22 PM

All those TOP100's and other TOP's are the stupidest thing ever IMHO. Everyone puts his favorite guitar player on the top. It's all very personal.

Posted by: blindwillie May 8 2008, 08:55 AM

OK, I'll say EVH then. He is just soooo cheesy. In a cheesy group. Playing cheesy music.

Posted by: maw793 May 17 2008, 01:05 AM

EVH at 70th?

Posted by: FrankW Jun 3 2008, 05:54 PM

A complete waste of time. The criteria is dubious at best. Who decides this crap, anyway? Instead of 'best' guitarist, it should read, 'favorite' guitarist...and then, you're at the mercy of somebody elses' opinion. It gets a rise out of people, which is why it's done.

Posted by: Nick Kellie Jun 3 2008, 06:00 PM

i've said it before and i'll say it again - music is polytheistic.
Also music is not a sport - noone can truly "Win". They can only express musical ideas in their own idiosyncratic way.
IMHO
nick