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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Thoughts From The Great Lukather Regarding Musicians And Social Media
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 13 2013, 04:40 PM
Since there have been a few discussions around social media and artists today, I thought it would be a good idea to see how the great artists that have been through a different age, when the internet was not in existence, regard the possibilities brought up by the new technology and especially by social media promotion.
Steve Lukather's thoughts are not so shining when it comes to this topic - click here if you want to know why: http://mikeec.tumblr.com/post/24172050837/steve-lukather-tells-it-like-it-is
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 13 2013, 07:21 PM
Bitter much? Egad that guy has gotten seriously offended by the what things have developed. He has some very valid points to be sure, but railing against the the nature of the beast just makes him sound bitter. Almost like railing against downloading music, or railing against the sun rising. At some point you just have to take things as they come and move on right? He is correct of course that the middle section of artists who used to be able to earn a living is pretty much gone and everyone now can make a record on their iphone etc. But there has never been a better time to be a musician IMHO simply do to the fact that you can now get good gear for cheap and share your music with the world. 
It's true making a living from it is probably harder than it ever was but that's the way the cook crumbles I hope he chills a bit, he's a great player
Todd
Steve Lukather's thoughts are not so shining when it comes to this topic - click here if you want to know why: http://mikeec.tumblr.com/post/24172050837/steve-lukather-tells-it-like-it-is
Posted by: klasaine Oct 14 2013, 02:18 AM
He's not bitter. He's a legendary guitarist that still works. He has always called 'bullshit' when he sees it. It's his perspective. If you ask him a question he'll tell you what he thinks. He doesn't accept the new model. Cest la vie. He doesn't have to and it doesn't matter. He made his mark ... and his bank.
The great thing about Lukather is that he doesn't pull his punches. So many guys edit their 'real' opinion for the interview and the camera. Not him. It ain't all sweet little candies and pretty lights,
Posted by: verciazghra Oct 14 2013, 03:19 AM
It's true making a living from it is probably harder than it ever was but that's the way the cook crumbles I hope he chills a bit, he's a great player Todd
Sure but if people don't really listen, what's the point? The rare selection of people that actually care about what music is being made is such a tiny group. Is it strange that it is this way? Hell no, human beings are as mass produced and "brainwashed" as the majority of records being made. When we do create a bit of ourselves, a true reflection of our personality within our music, people usually write it off as weird rather than expressive. I strongly agree with mr Lukather. It is shit... right now. But maybe in a few years, people will tire of the shallow fields of ABC digital productions and start really caring again...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 14 2013, 09:15 AM
Well, to me, it's like he can't somehow adapt to the new things, but regarding the quality of the music, he is right in many ways Too much s...y stuff out there so to say. But it's a free world after all, innit? The internet allows you to filter the content that you want to be reached by and to reach the content you want to. Seems fair enough to me. The bad part is that people are not interested in REAL music as they were a long time ago - a big part of them anyway and in this, I agree with him strongly...
Posted by: klasaine Oct 14 2013, 03:53 PM
He doesn't need to 'adapt'. It wouldn't be any fun for him anyway.
When you've spent most of the 70s through the 90s recording to 2" tape in studios like Capitol 'A', the Village, Cherokee, Sunset Sound, Ocean Way, etc. - with the caliber of players (and budgets) he did ... it just ain't the same *for him* to do it the new way.
It's sort like a Formula 1 or Nascar driver getting into a Toyota Prius.
As one who came up during the transition from tape to digital and studio facility to home recording ... trust me, if you never did it the old way - you're better off. No value judgement from me. Just an observation from a guy who was there and crossed the divide.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 15 2013, 02:44 PM
I think that he is a fantastic musician and that he has done lots of great music for many years. I understand what he writes there and there are some ideas in which I agree. But I think that he is generalizing. I believe and have examples of lots of bands and musicians that are making great music, great albums, as in the old days, and also there are many bands that are making lots of money with his music. I think that the rules and possibilities changed compared to the 80's but I don't think that we are worse, we have to understand these new rules and possibilities.
This book/site is a good starting point to understand it: http://www.newrockstarphilosophy.com/
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 16 2013, 03:46 PM
I also agree with you Gabe - indeed, the internet has opened up the possibility for each band to get exposed and that implies bad music as well, because not everyone makes awesome music 
But, kidding aside, I think that a smart adaptable man, makes good use of whatever life throws in his way.
I remember a very interesting moment in my life:
I entered the office of one of my old clients with my first company. I was an inexperienced dude in search of web design based projects and this lady was the owner of one of the top 5 travel agencies in Romania. Above her desk throned an image of Charles Darwin and one of his sayings - 'It is not the strongest or the most intelligent species that survives, but the one who's the most responsive to change' I am keeping that with me every day, as it applies pretty much everywhere.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Oct 16 2013, 04:37 PM
'It is not the strongest or the most intelligent species that survives, but the one who's the most responsive to change'
Can't agree more with this phrase.
Posted by: klasaine Oct 16 2013, 05:04 PM
You're assuming that because he may not 'like' the new model - and is outspoken about it - that he hasn't adapted.
The guy plays probably 100+ gigs a year all over the world and still does recording sessions for TV, movies and other artists. I'm pretty sure he has his own digital media company (record/merch co.) and releases his own records via an on-line site ...
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 16 2013, 10:39 PM
I have to disagree here, he's WAAAAAYYY bitter. Comes off really kranky and old. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to say whatever the heck he wants, he does have that right of course Just comes off sooooo badly IMHO, sounding like he's just out of touch and whining his head off. Some folks probably respect him his candor, but I lost a lot of respect for him just because it's so lame to hear him talk this way. Yes, the world has changed. But I honestly expected more from him than just complaints and bitterness. 
The great thing about Lukather is that he doesn't pull his punches. So many guys edit their 'real' opinion for the interview and the camera. Not him. It ain't all sweet little candies and pretty lights,
Bingo
Pretty much covers it. But, kidding aside, I think that a smart adaptable man, makes good use of whatever life throws in his way. I remember a very interesting moment in my life:
I entered the office of one of my old clients with my first company. I was an inexperienced dude in search of web design based projects and this lady was the owner of one of the top 5 travel agencies in Romania. Above her desk throned an image of Charles Darwin and one of his sayings - 'It is not the strongest or the most intelligent species that survives, but the one who's the most responsive to change' I am keeping that with me every day, as it applies pretty much everywhere.
Eh? I have to say your playing alone makes me disagree with him. 10 years ago, I"d have never ever heard of you or your playing, but now thanks in part to the Miracle of the "Web" I've heard music that I"m just blown away by on a daily basis. I"m not talking about top 40 crap, I"m talking about the kind of music I get pointed to here in the forums.
Is popular music worse off than it was in his day? Sure. Is "good" music better off? YES!!!!
Todd
Posted by: klasaine Oct 16 2013, 11:00 PM
'If' he wasn't really playing much anymore i'd agree with you.
But he's a working player/artist. Technically, in the real world of making music, he's not out of touch because he's still in it. He may be ranting. It may be a 'rant' that I personally don't subscribe to (too much). But he's still out there doin' it.
*As a matter of record he's ALWAYS been a bit curmudgeonly ... long before the the 'new model' and the internet.
When he did a steady club gig here for years he was just a popular for his off the cuff comments over the mic as he was for his guitar playing.
Posted by: Mertay Oct 16 2013, 11:20 PM
We (as musicians) are going back in time, getting closer to a time that music wasn't a product (no CD, cassette...).
Using the web might seem like a must today but I strongly advise friends to also invest time to your local area(s) too. The web will be so bloated it will be like todays TV, everyone will be famous for like 10 minutes but it takes months to make a good album
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 16 2013, 11:50 PM
Just saying he "sounds" out of touch and after reading the article again, he really, really, really, does sound out of touch. Again, not to take anything away the guy is a legend. Just was hoping to read him say something a bit more "Steve Vai" talking about the positive aspects and opportunities of the "new age" instead of kranky whiney.
But he's a working player/artist. Technically, in the real world of making music, he's not out of touch because he's still in it. He may be ranting. It may be a 'rant' that I personally don't subscribe to (too much). But he's still out there doin' it.
*As a matter of record he's ALWAYS been a bit curmudgeonly ... long before the the 'new model' and the internet.
When he did a steady club gig here for years he was just a popular for his off the cuff comments over the mic as he was for his guitar playing.
Posted by: klasaine Oct 17 2013, 12:17 AM
Vai, Lukather - they're different guys and they have different personalities. They're both passionate about their art and their vocation. They express it in their own varied forms. That difference is what makes them both unique and viable to different groups of people. Art needs the + and the -, the pull and the push, the hot and the cold, the beautiful and the hideous, the good and the bad. They don't call him 'Luke' for nothing.
Posted by: Mertay Oct 17 2013, 09:22 AM
Vai and Luke has very different backgrounds. Vai openly admits that he took a lot of advice from Zappa on production when he was young, he has his own label.
Luke on the other hand is a typical studio musician besides his solo career.
I actually "romantically" like the idea of everyone doing what he does best as a team member (this goes for everything visual art, producer etc.) so the best music can be born. But in this discipline (today) music isn't an art forum anymore, this is done to make the best product and earn the most money possible.
Change always comes with the good and the bad. Its too far in the future but I hope someday (again) a guitarist will only focus on his guitar rather than learning to advertise, arrange, record/mix/master, video edit...
Posted by: verciazghra Oct 17 2013, 10:31 AM
To go on a weird tangent here I think that the mainstage of music always represents the "current state" of our sociology. I may not be right about this but that's what my experience and cynicism tells me. Baroque music was filled with neuance because people were open to it, their lives were simpler which means they were probably closer to "the ground" and more receptive to neuances.
I'm not saying that nobody is receptive anymore, I'm just saying that the digital world and the massproduction of "easy to listen to" material is just a reflex of the stressed lives we live today. Where we can only focus on the bigger things, because if we don't everything falls apart. (Again that may not be true, but that's the "sentiment" the world is giving off.)
People differ, everything differs, but what does the throbbing mass of people say? Probably that they wont pay a penny to see a guy play passionately with harmonies that are out of this world.
Which world do you want to live in? Will progressive jazz ever be a household thing? Will people be open to someone being different and still see the beauty when he/she pours soul into a piece of music?
These are questions I ponder every day, because mass-producing clones is not the answer to world hunger, international peace, and the well-being of your neighbours... I think, only compassion and empathy can do that... THE NAIVE BOHEMIAN HAS SPOKEN!
Love you guys...
Posted by: klasaine Oct 17 2013, 02:25 PM
Not so naive.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 17 2013, 05:09 PM
Haha 
I like the way this thread is evolving Vince - your questions are my questions too mate and you are not naive - I hope you haven't taken any of my words as hiding some blades in them 
Each person is indeed different and unfortunately from one point in our lives, we get eaten up by the modern life's rigors - earn, eat, sleep, work to earn.
I for one wanted to do something which has to deal with my uniqueness and not let myself get entangled in a life that has no purpose but the one stated above, so that's why I am involved in the things I do and that's why I tried to earn a living by doing the things that I love most. But that means I need to fight That's all I wanted to underline and I think that everyone believing in something should fight fiercely for that one thing that they believe in.
Posted by: klasaine Oct 17 2013, 05:19 PM
Hence the 'passion' thing. Not all passion is beautiful to behold - especially in print.
Lukather is angry and upset about music and the music business today. That doesn't mean he's 'bitter'. Two different things.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 18 2013, 04:05 AM
I have to say I think anyone with ears and a soul will like what they hear when they put on some of your music simply due to it's fresh approach and variety. I can't imagine someone actually not liking it. Then again, I can't imagine how people listen to Katie Perry so maybe it's just me
There is much to lament to be sure. Our music industry has begun to mirror the industry in Japan which is a complete artifice. The saving grace IMHO is the internet. I can find amazing music at the click of a mouse. Granted, the folks making this amazing music probably have day jobs to support their music habbit, but such is the world we live in eh? I actually think it's better that the middle has been gutted out of the biz. there's not reason to "be commercial" as a guitar oriented band/musician as that sort of thing is offensive to the very audience intended to listen. So it almost forces people to be better, be different, otherwise they just get lost in the void/crush.
T
I'm not saying that nobody is receptive anymore, I'm just saying that the digital world and the massproduction of "easy to listen to" material is just a reflex of the stressed lives we live today. Where we can only focus on the bigger things, because if we don't everything falls apart. (Again that may not be true, but that's the "sentiment" the world is giving off.)
People differ, everything differs, but what does the throbbing mass of people say? Probably that they wont pay a penny to see a guy play passionately with harmonies that are out of this world.
Which world do you want to live in? Will progressive jazz ever be a household thing? Will people be open to someone being different and still see the beauty when he/she pours soul into a piece of music?
These are questions I ponder every day, because mass-producing clones is not the answer to world hunger, international peace, and the well-being of your neighbours... I think, only compassion and empathy can do that... THE NAIVE BOHEMIAN HAS SPOKEN!
Love you guys...
(Looks askance) Works for me
I think he may just need a cookie.Lukather is angry and upset about music and the music business today. That doesn't mean he's 'bitter'. Two different things.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 18 2013, 05:56 PM
I have some stories about Luke that happened in Bucharest He doesn't like cookies, but he could sure fall for a beautiful lady 
Jesting aside, Todd is right - the internet offers possibilities but it also forces you to be good, in order to stand out!
Posted by: klasaine Oct 19 2013, 12:36 AM
There was never a time you didn't have to be good to stand out.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 19 2013, 01:55 AM
I think Cos is saying that there was never a time where it was more important to be good in order to stand out it seems, now that the internet has opened the path to every musician on earth with wifi
It's certainly true that you have always needed to be good to stand out, but now that billions and billions of people can put themselves out there via youtube, there is more "competition" just for eyeballs and ears than ever before. Certainly more than in Lukathers day wouldn't you say?
I personally think it's RAISED the bar, not lowered it. There are literally thousands of AMAZING guitarists on youtube from all over planet earth. To stand out among the hordes of really fine players, you have to bring something special in some aspect to the table. No way around it.
This is part of why I think his rant came off so lame to me. He can swing it with the best of them, he's had an amazing career and he spends the article crapping on everything. The good news is that I"ve seen the "next generation" so to speak of players coming up here on GMC and for the most part, they embrace (though some reluctantly) the state of the union as it were in terms of music/social media/the web. Sure it's a pain sometimes to have to learn and know and implement all of the peripheral skills these days. (E.G. Video Shooting, Editing, Home Recording/Mixing/Mastering, Social Media, etc.) But I personally think the benefits far out weigh the lame bits.
Posted by: klasaine Oct 19 2013, 02:57 AM
At the risk of sounding 'like an old man' myself I'll say yeah, there's millions of players putting themselves out there but no more or less actually talented ones than before.
More people played an instrument when I was growing up than do now. It's one of the things you did - piano, guitar, clarinet, whatever. There were so many rock bands when I was in Jr. High and High School that it was even a little competitive. Never mind about the actual school band stuff - which a ton of kids participated in as well. But there was barely any way to record yourself (big and relatively expensive) and no way to market your music yourself even you did get it recorded - short of starting a record co (and some did). You had to play live all the time. That was you putting yourself out there. And to reiterate - there were a ton of bands ... TONS! But most never got recorded let alone filmed. Basically lost forever into the aether. My point being, it just seems like there's more now. It's easier to archive. The analogy I'd make is that then, if the band at the fair or club or party sucked you didn't go see them again. Today if the youtube vid doesn't interest you you never go back to that channel. The ease that one can put themselves out there is fun and immediately gratifying (self gratifying?) but it's not making better (or worse) musicians or entertainers. It provides the same thing that hanging out at the club or bar or party every friday and saturday night used to.
I just get ear fatigue and eye wash at the shear glut of stuff to wade through (and I wade through a fair amount - I also got sick of going out every night and hearing mostly average to horrible bands too). I've said before in another thread, there was a ton of crap that made it to record and tape long before the net and it got forgotten just as quickly as today's 'latest virtuoso' or 'tweener' pop star gets forgotten.
Numerically, sure now there's more potential product put out there. But I'll argue that most of it doesn't get heard or seen by very many people. I heard a statistic today about the Amazon 'cloud' music player. 4,000,000 (4 million) of the songs amazon has uploaded to their cloud drive/player have never been played even once. No matter how many tunes they have up there 4 million is a lot not to be heard. I notice it with my own stuff. Why does one of my vids have like 10,000 plays and another less than 50? Other than the obvious 'well that one with 50 hits sucks' answer - which is probably valid - who knows?
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 19 2013, 03:25 AM
I'd agree!! I don't think folks are "more" or "less" talented than before. We are on the same page there What I'm saying is that you HAVE TO bring something to the table to stand out among the hordes and hordes of guitar players competing for eyeballs and ears on youtube. (there's that word that again "competition").
That's why I think all this "crap/web/etc." stuff that he is bagging on, has actually RAISED the bar. It's increased the overall level of competition, wouldn't you say?
I also can totally see where eye glut can come in to play Due to the factors mentioned above, there's more music competing for ears/eyes, so this is EXACTLY where social media comes in to play, right? Friends, trusted sources, recommend stuff and help wade through it. If one is not connected to social media, separating the wheat from the chafe would be nigh upon impossible due to the shear volume of material IMHO. So again, the value of social media comes in to play in "discernment". Helping one find non crap music.
I think we actually agree on nearly everything that's come up to be honest (except of course lukes ranty banty) especially on the idea that most content gets' very little viewing. With so much content available, getting any, any, any, traction is really, really, really tough. So many factors come in to play, not the least of which is "is the content any good"? Outside of a personal opine, the view counter can help settle that pretty quick. While it's true that CRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPP can get really high view counts, like Lady Gaga etc., what "is" and "isn't" crap is entirely subjective. I"m in to "guitar stuff" as many here are so that's the mud I"m fighting in. I"ve managed to garner 3,000 plus subscribers and a million plus views so far on youtube which is a pittance compared just one video by our own SINISA which has several million, or katie perry ( on the crap side) pushing half a billion.
In short, we all get old, we all "rail against the dying of the light", at some point, to some degree I just hope I can maintain a positive outlook and approach and remain grateful for the things that have gone well and let go the things that didn't work no matter how much I thought they should have. I just wish Luke could do the same.
Todd
Way more people played an instrument when I was growing up than do now. It's one of the things you did - piano, guitar, clarinet, whatever. There were so many rock bands when I was in Jr. High and High School that it was even a little competitive. Never mind about the actual school band stuff - which a ton of kids participated in as well. But there was barely any way to record yourself (big and relatively expensive) and no way to market your music yourself even you did get it recorded - short of starting a record co (and some did). You had to play live all the time. That was you putting yourself out there. And to reiterate - there were a ton of bands ... TONS!
I for one just get ear fatigue and eye wash at the shear glut of stuff to wade through (and I wade through a fair amount). And as I've said before, there was a ton of crap that made it to record and tape long before the net and it got forgotten just as quickly as today's 'latest virtuoso' or 'tweener' pop star gets forgotten.
Numerically, sure now there's more potential product put out there. But I'll argue that most of it doesn't get heard or seen very many people. I heard a statistic today about the Amazon 'cloud' music player. 4,000,000 (4 million) of the songs amazon has uploaded to their cloud drive/player have never been played even once. I notice it with my own stuff. Why does one of my vids have like 10,000 plays and another less than 50? Other than the obvious 'well that one with 50 hits sucks' answer - which is probably valid - who knows?
Posted by: verciazghra Oct 19 2013, 08:39 AM
I agree with you all that there's about the same amount of talented people now as there was before, my quarrel is not with them. I rather think there's a paradox of oversaturation causing a bloated market. You have to "stand out" more today but not in the way of being good or virtuistic or odd. The recipe for making it is more of a "distort a style or combination of styles which most people can relate to so that it feels "new" while being the same old stuff". Cause lets face it, no matter how brilliant Phillip Glass is, only 0.3% of the people who ever heard him is gonna notice that. His tonal language is completely "new", his way of composing is incredible personal, he is himself trough the music, and while that should mean instant success he's struggled a lot. Then you see people like Guthrie who's (if we simplify) the "new" version of "Steve Vai". I'm not taking anything away from him but his tonal language and ways of expression are just refined versions of what came before him.
So the paradox to me is that yes, you have to be good but within a very specific frame to be noticed. This becomes increasingly obvious when you look to people who refined the language of 40-60s jazz. They will never get famous or the recognition of those who do exactly the same thing but with rock. However I digress.
It's very interesting to read all of your thoughts on this topic. I'd like to personally thank you all, cosmin, todd, klasiane.
I don't think folks are "more" or "less" talented than before. We are on the same page there What I'm saying is that you HAVE TO bring something to the table to stand out among the hordes and hordes of guitar players competing for eyeballs and ears on youtube. (there's that word that again "competition").That's why I think all this "crap/web/etc." stuff that he is bagging on, has actually RAISED the bar. It's increased the overall level of competition, wouldn't you say?
I also can totally see where eye glut can come in to play
Due to the factors mentioned above, there's more music competing for ears/eyes, so this is EXACTLY where social media comes in to play, right? Friends, trusted sources, recommend stuff and help wade through it. If one is not connected to social media, separating the wheat from the chafe would be nigh upon impossible due to the shear volume of material IMHO. So again, the value of social media comes in to play in "discernment". Helping one find non crap music. I think we actually agree on nearly everything that's come up to be honest
(except of course lukes ranty banty) especially on the idea that most content gets' very little viewing. With so much content available, getting any, any, any, traction is really, really, really tough. So many factors come in to play, not the least of which is "is the content any good"? Outside of a personal opine, the view counter can help settle that pretty quick. While it's true that CRRRAAAAAAPPPPPPP can get really high view counts, like Lady Gaga etc., what "is" and "isn't" crap is entirely subjective. I"m in to "guitar stuff" as many here are so that's the mud I"m fighting in. I"ve managed to garner 3,000 plus subscribers and a million plus views so far on youtube which is a pittance compared just one video by our own SINISA which has several million, or katie perry ( on the crap side) pushing half a billion. In short, we all get old, we all "rail against the dying of the light", at some point, to some degree
I just hope I can maintain a positive outlook and approach and remain grateful for the things that have gone well and let go the things that didn't work no matter how much I thought they should have. I just wish Luke could do the same. Todd
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 19 2013, 09:03 AM
Vince - you are the second person that I know who says that about Guthrie I personally think that at this point - for me - he is the only shred guitarist I can still listen to and not get bored, so yes, I have a soft spot for his music and playing.
But indeed, everyone pointed out great truths and for me Luke can get away with it because his music is so darn awesome! But kidding aside, I think that as Vince stated, virtuosity is not a deciding factor anymore. That's why I appreciate people who can actually write real music that as simple as it might be, it leaves a strong burning mark on my memory and feelings.
Take Dave Grohl for example Is there anybody on the internet who can write music which is so powerful that it can make you say - wow, I can't actually stop singing/playing that! I think that THOSE are the artists that can and will make it if they market their music wisely with the aid of the internet and the whole cumulus of possibilities.
Posted by: klasaine Oct 19 2013, 04:20 PM
I would say that the difference is that the competition is seemingly more apparent due to the ease of visibility and the fact that the field is so vast. Like the very early rounds of World Cup qualifiers - dozens of teams but it still really just comes down to a couple of teams. Everybody has access to multiple outlets from a personal webpage to youtube, facebook, reverb nation, etc. all the way to a kickstarter or indiegogo crowd sourcing campaign. But again, most people don't see or hear most of it. Generally small, insular groups looking at or listening to their small, insular groups of interest to them. I see the field of influence narrowing. I find that the web is limiting 'most' peoples exposure to the wide variety that's actually out there (not those who are naturally curious of course - they'll find variety anywhere, any way, any medium). And that, to me, leads to the illusion of competition. One virtuoso 12 year old guitar player competing against another virtuoso 12 year old guitar player ... in their bedrooms, on the net, being seen by other guitar players. And competing for what? Someone to comment that you're amazing? Is that it anymore? An accolade - really? It's kinda like playing an on-line, multi-player computer game (or a role playing, 2nd Life type of thing). Yes, you won ... and? Fun? Sure, but actually competitive?
*There's always been the parade of young virtuosos in front of audiences. Pre internet it was on TV (or even radio) variety and talk shows. They were just as young and just as virtuosic ... and 99.9% are just as forgotten in a week or two. To me it's like the fast food or 7-11 of art - McMusic.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 20 2013, 09:55 AM
*There's always been the parade of young virtuosos in front of audiences. Pre internet it was on TV (or even radio) variety and talk shows. They were just as young and just as virtuosic ... and 99.9% are just as forgotten in a week or two. To me it's like the fast food or 7-11 of art - McMusic.
Indeed - I stated the same idea above
There is music out there tho, if we search further than the 'bedroom virtuoso' world The internet helped me discover a lot of interesting bands, but then again ... I am one of those curious by nature sort of people. There's one thing that I know and that will probably be my conclusion - the internet is a tool, so let's use it wisely Posted by: klasaine Oct 20 2013, 02:39 PM
The curious will always find the treasure.
I adore youtube. It's made my life and work easier and more efficient.
But I know how to research effectively. I use the exact same search methodology on line that I'd use with a phone book, telephone, library, shop, museum and some type of physical transportation.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 21 2013, 11:42 AM
I adore youtube. It's made my life and work easier and more efficient.
But I know how to research effectively. I use the exact same search methodology on line that I'd use with a phone book, telephone, library, shop, museum and some type of physical transportation.
As I have stated before, as long as we see it as a tool and use it accordingly, everything should be in place
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 22 2013, 03:58 AM
Again, well said The web is just another tool/medium. Sure, it's easy to bemoan the state of things, but that's been true since the dawn of time right? Personally, I've never subscribed to the idea of "the good ol days" in any context. But hey, that's just me From my perspective, having been legally dead twice, any day above ground is the here and now version of "the good ol days" and IMHO, the tools at hand are better than they've ever been, and the world is a better place to be in as a result
Is it a tragedy of sorts that the masses will never know the brilliance of Mr. Glass? Sure But as tragedy goes, it's pretty small yeah? Is it too bad that all this "narrow casting" and playing/writing for "likes" has distorted the entire landscape of music? A bit. But just a bit.
On the plus side, the web has allowed for places like this Wonderful spaces of thought and music where people from all over planet earth who would have otherwise never met, never talked, never heard each others music, can get together and share. Share ideas, share perspectives, and above all SHARE MUSIC. It's beautiful beyond all things.
Todd
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 22 2013, 08:56 AM
Well, the good ol' days in my country weren't good at all - because while in the USA or UK, rock n roll could save your soul in Romania, you could get beat up and locked down in jail for having long hair or inappropriate clothing That was what was happening before the Revolution in 1989. So I don't think I miss any of that I think there's a chance for everyone out there - the success? Well, it depends on how hard you work and that involves not only making music
Posted by: Blister Oct 23 2013, 06:13 AM
"The only thing constant is change", right?
I really love these topics that make you really have to think!
I've been following this thread since Luke is my guitar hero. The man has been a huge part of the music business at least since the early 70's. He definitely speaks his mind & tells it like it is (at least from his point of view). He isn't hurting for work. Touring with Ringo, a couple G3 events, of course Toto as well as a tour promoting his latest album & that was just last year! No, he doesn't have the gentleman-like qualities & charm like Guthrie or Grohl. He's kind of like the old man you see in the grocery store when you walk by he passes gas, & you just chuckle & say to yourself, well, he's been around awhile, he's earned it & laugh if off.
I'm also a Frampton fan (note my picture there & my last name is the same-no relation). Peter also went on a rant for awhile on facebook regarding the losses from the stealing of music & disappointing royalties from internet sales of his music. He also made the comment that it used to be you went on tour to promote selling albums. Now, less money is made from selling songs & more is made in touring.
The industry certainly has changed. Some may long for "the good ol' days" but if you live in the past you'll stay in the past. It's an industry that has evolved. Worse, better or just different? That's probably going to depend on who you are & maybe even how old you are. There have always been artists that got overlooked & others with far less talent that got "discovered". That's true of any industry.
It doesn't bother me about his rant. He's earned it IMO. I'm just thankful that even though they aren't happy with the state of the industry they are still making music & touring. It would be much easier for them to say "heck with it" & retire but they keep going. And I respect that.
In the end, isn't making music about the love & passion of creating music that you yourself enjoy? If it's about making lots of money or getting girls, then that is going to be some empty lifeless music.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 23 2013, 07:52 AM
I really love these topics that make you really have to think!
I've been following this thread since Luke is my guitar hero. The man has been a huge part of the music business at least since the early 70's. He definitely speaks his mind & tells it like it is (at least from his point of view). He isn't hurting for work. Touring with Ringo, a couple G3 events, of course Toto as well as a tour promoting his latest album & that was just last year! No, he doesn't have the gentleman-like qualities & charm like Guthrie or Grohl. He's kind of like the old man you see in the grocery store when you walk by he passes gas, & you just chuckle & say to yourself, well, he's been around awhile, he's earned it & laugh if off.
I'm also a Frampton fan (note my picture there & my last name is the same-no relation). Peter also went on a rant for awhile on facebook regarding the losses from the stealing of music & disappointing royalties from internet sales of his music. He also made the comment that it used to be you went on tour to promote selling albums. Now, less money is made from selling songs & more is made in touring.
The industry certainly has changed. Some may long for "the good ol' days" but if you live in the past you'll stay in the past. It's an industry that has evolved. Worse, better or just different? That's probably going to depend on who you are & maybe even how old you are. There have always been artists that got overlooked & others with far less talent that got "discovered". That's true of any industry.
It doesn't bother me about his rant. He's earned it IMO. I'm just thankful that even though they aren't happy with the state of the industry they are still making music & touring. It would be much easier for them to say "heck with it" & retire but they keep going. And I respect that.
In the end, isn't making music about the love & passion of creating music that you yourself enjoy? If it's about making lots of money or getting girls, then that is going to be some empty lifeless music.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.
You are absolutely right man
As I said about change - I read that quote from Darwin you can see a few posts back and I understood that in order to AT LEAST survive in anything you do, you need to adapt. Adapting doesn't mean selling yourself cheap, but finding a nice way to stay yourself and get away with it
Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 24 2013, 11:03 AM
I keep forgetting he's not 25 anymore He's that old guy moaning about the price of guitar strings to the clerk @ Guitar Center who you've seen playing around town for years so you smile and let it slide I"m guessing we will all sound like that from someones perspective as we head toward the "Longest Tour".
I am glad that he still cares enough to play and participate, and give interviews
I really love these topics that make you really have to think!
I've been following this thread since Luke is my guitar hero. The man has been a huge part of the music business at least since the early 70's. He definitely speaks his mind & tells it like it is (at least from his point of view). He isn't hurting for work. Touring with Ringo, a couple G3 events, of course Toto as well as a tour promoting his latest album & that was just last year! No, he doesn't have the gentleman-like qualities & charm like Guthrie or Grohl. He's kind of like the old man you see in the grocery store when you walk by he passes gas, & you just chuckle & say to yourself, well, he's been around awhile, he's earned it & laugh if off.
I'm also a Frampton fan (note my picture there & my last name is the same-no relation). Peter also went on a rant for awhile on facebook regarding the losses from the stealing of music & disappointing royalties from internet sales of his music. He also made the comment that it used to be you went on tour to promote selling albums. Now, less money is made from selling songs & more is made in touring.
The industry certainly has changed. Some may long for "the good ol' days" but if you live in the past you'll stay in the past. It's an industry that has evolved. Worse, better or just different? That's probably going to depend on who you are & maybe even how old you are. There have always been artists that got overlooked & others with far less talent that got "discovered". That's true of any industry.
It doesn't bother me about his rant. He's earned it IMO. I'm just thankful that even though they aren't happy with the state of the industry they are still making music & touring. It would be much easier for them to say "heck with it" & retire but they keep going. And I respect that.
In the end, isn't making music about the love & passion of creating music that you yourself enjoy? If it's about making lots of money or getting girls, then that is going to be some empty lifeless music.
Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 25 2013, 10:04 AM
He's that old guy moaning about the price of guitar strings to the clerk @ Guitar Center who you've seen playing around town for years so you smile and let it slide I"m guessing we will all sound like that from someones perspective as we head toward the "Longest Tour". I am glad that he still cares enough to play and participate, and give interviews
If you would judge him by the way he lives his life, trust me, you would thing he is 25
Posted by: klasaine Oct 26 2013, 05:06 PM
I know a guy that owns one of the big rehearsal, storage, rental and cartage companies here. He hears all the complaints of some the top players/artists in town. His line for them is this ... "let me guess, you love music but music doesn't love you back?"
Not every musicians personality or point of view is great for motivational inspiration.
We're just like anybody else - good days/bad days. Trust me - Lukather is a warm fuzzy puppy compared to some (muso) guys and gals that you'll run into here. It doesn't mean that they don't like their job or aren't into music any more. It just means that maybe they had 'a bad day at work' or maybe their marriage is falling apart or a parent has alzheimer's or one of their kids is a drug addict - all the same issues that can plague anyone else. Not too mention record and movie companies that like to take as long as possible to pay you or the artist's production co. that's decided that your agreed upon fee has now been re-negotiated w/o out you there or you didn't get credit on a track (or album) that you played on, etc., etc., etc. ...
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 27 2013, 04:04 PM
Haha "let me guess, you love music but music doesn't love you back?" Great line!
I perfectly understand what you are saying - guess sometimes it's hard being all zen like and keeping your cool regardless
Posted by: klasaine Oct 27 2013, 04:44 PM
Some guys are not Zen like at all ... ever. One doesn't have to be - ?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 28 2013, 07:53 AM
Well, frankly, when I met Luke, he was very fuzzy and nice and we had a great conversation till some girls appeared and snitched him from the hotel lobby
He forgot about the talk the instant they appeared Kidding aside, I think that there are a lot of artists who are very down to earth and humble and nice to the people around them and then ....there's Malmsteen about whom I've heard a lot of terrifying stories
Posted by: klasaine Oct 28 2013, 03:39 PM
He forgot about the talk the instant they appeared Well, he is a guitar player.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Oct 29 2013, 08:52 AM
found the pic:
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