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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Guitarists - don’t lie to yourselves!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 7 2014, 04:05 PM
I'm used to receive students who want to learn to play fast. Some times they are obsessed with this and they push themselves a lot to achieve this goal, even sacrificing cleanliness, clearness and sound of their playing,
Do you perhaps push speed a little too much, just because you so desperately want to reach those 150 bpm? Does it really matter if you’re in full control, no one will hear if you miss a note anyway… or?
Posted by: Spock Jun 7 2014, 06:09 PM
Yea, that was pretty much my philosophy on playing. Though I've never attained a level of real speed - in soloing in general, I would just hit the main notes then fill in, I would get close and be okay with that.
The record button changed everything. It was when I first started trying to record parts that my monumental lack of skill was firmly realized.
So now my philosophy is, thanks to "The Record Button" and "GMC"... "I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but I'm a whole lot better than I was".
Posted by: huargo Jun 7 2014, 06:17 PM
True but.... you can go faster to brake barriers and start to cleanup after that?. I notice a step forward in my speed picking but i notice too that my hand not had a good muted strings tecnique... but i never notice that until i go fast..
anyway get fun!
Posted by: Mertay Jun 7 2014, 06:48 PM
Depends really, I mean the selected tone has a lot to do with it imho (unless we're talking about practicing). By the way what sort of mistakes are we talking about?
Usually I notice students using too much strength, I also did that mistake. It's a mistake that cannot be heard but just as the student develops the speed, he notices the muscles can't take an entire concert as he always practiced exercises...
Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 7 2014, 07:04 PM
Great point I see this quite a bit as well and it's normal but should be fought against. The body wants to tighten up during fast playing and you have to really work at not tensing.
Not making HUGE jumps in speed helps. E.G. Play at a speed just before you tense up and slowly bump up while maintaining control of arms/body tension. Jumping ahead of where you can actually play typically creates large amounts of tension in the arm and folks end up "Picking from the Elbow" which reduces precision and exhausts the arm reducing practice time.
Also a great point in this thread about recording. Until you record yourself you aren't really hearing what your playing. While you are playing you can't fully appreciate what it actually sounds like. Typically only after you listen to the playback can you hear all the faults it can be depressing a bit at first but it's worth it
QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 7 2014, 01:48 PM) 
Depends really, I mean the selected tone has a lot to do with it imho (unless we're talking about practicing). By the way what sort of mistakes are we talking about?
Usually I notice students using too much strength, I also did that mistake. It's a mistake that cannot be heard but just as the student develops the speed, he notices the muscles can't take an entire concert as he always practiced exercises...
Usually I notice students using too much strength, I also did that mistake. It's a mistake that cannot be heard but just as the student develops the speed, he notices the muscles can't take an entire concert as he always practiced exercises...
Posted by: Deleted Jun 7 2014, 07:17 PM
I'm one of those guys who want to play fast (at least being able to play LVL 5 lessons).
I've been playing for 6 years and I'm only able to play LVL4 lessons 
Is it because of the attention I pay to create a clean sound that makes me play slow?
Posted by: Mertay Jun 7 2014, 07:36 PM
QUOTE (Deleted @ Jun 7 2014, 06:17 PM)
I'm one of those guys who want to play fast (at least being able to play LVL 5 lessons).
I've been playing for 6 years and I'm only able to play LVL4 lessons
Is it because of the attention I pay to create a clean sound that makes me play slow?
I've been playing for 6 years and I'm only able to play LVL4 lessons
Is it because of the attention I pay to create a clean sound that makes me play slow?
This question should be handled in detail when answering, I'd ask a teacher in chat or create a separate topic as some info's must be shared.
Here's an example of me playing what is NOT ideal, a solo made for a Collab. (was rushed) but look how hard I pick and how tense I am in the webcam audio;
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 8 2014, 08:11 AM
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 7 2014, 06:04 PM)
Great point I see this quite a bit as well and it's normal but should be fought against. The body wants to tighten up during fast playing and you have to really work at not tensing.
Not making HUGE jumps in speed helps. E.G. Play at a speed just before you tense up and slowly bump up while maintaining control of arms/body tension. Jumping ahead of where you can actually play typically creates large amounts of tension in the arm and folks end up "Picking from the Elbow" which reduces precision and exhausts the arm reducing practice time.
Also a great point in this thread about recording. Until you record yourself you aren't really hearing what your playing. While you are playing you can't fully appreciate what it actually sounds like. Typically only after you listen to the playback can you hear all the faults it can be depressing a bit at first but it's worth it
I see this quite a bit as well and it's normal but should be fought against. The body wants to tighten up during fast playing and you have to really work at not tensing. Not making HUGE jumps in speed helps. E.G. Play at a speed just before you tense up and slowly bump up while maintaining control of arms/body tension. Jumping ahead of where you can actually play typically creates large amounts of tension in the arm and folks end up "Picking from the Elbow" which reduces precision and exhausts the arm reducing practice time.
Also a great point in this thread about recording. Until you record yourself you aren't really hearing what your playing. While you are playing you can't fully appreciate what it actually sounds like. Typically only after you listen to the playback can you hear all the faults
it can be depressing a bit at first but it's worth it Two great points here by Todd
- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities
These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually
But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?
Posted by: Rileyandrew29 Jun 8 2014, 11:30 AM
QUOTE
- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities
These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually smile.gif But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.
Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities
These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually smile.gif But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.
Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?
It was awareness it seemed for me. Not anymore. I am now enlightened. Now to work on discipline!!
This site is great thanks
Posted by: klasaine Jun 8 2014, 03:22 PM
Slightly OT but definitely related.
I had a gig last night outside (civic sponsored concert). Usually in SoCal this time of year the air is calm and warm.
Well, not last night. Windy and it got a little cool. And like the Cali idiot I can be sometimes - I just wore a t-shirt 
My hands were a little cold and there was no time to 'warm-up'.
I knew I was not going to able to pull off some quicker licks and lines - I could feel that I would have crashed and burned. So I didn't try. Instead of failing, I played at speeds I was confident and comfortable with at that moment.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 8 2014, 08:01 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 8 2014, 04:11 AM)
Two great points here by Todd
- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities
These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.
Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?
- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities
These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually
But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?
Thanks for summarizing Cosmin. Can't agree more about the advantages that recording can give us, not only to develop our technique, and improvisations, also to be able to analyze our compositions alone and with our bands. I could notice that it's very difficult to have a sense of the whole thing when we are playing and composing with the band. The only way to be sure if the arrangements, structure and ideas of a song are working is to using all our attention to just listen.
QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 8 2014, 11:22 AM)
Slightly OT but definitely related.
I had a gig last night outside (civic sponsored concert). Usually in SoCal this time of year the air is calm and warm.
Well, not last night. Windy and it got a little cool. And like the Cali idiot I can be sometimes - I just wore a t-shirt
My hands were a little cold and there was no time to 'warm-up'.
I knew I was not going to able to pull off some quicker licks and lines - I could feel that I would have crashed and burned. So I didn't try. Instead of failing, I played at speeds I was confident and comfortable with at that moment.
I had a gig last night outside (civic sponsored concert). Usually in SoCal this time of year the air is calm and warm.
Well, not last night. Windy and it got a little cool. And like the Cali idiot I can be sometimes - I just wore a t-shirt
My hands were a little cold and there was no time to 'warm-up'.
I knew I was not going to able to pull off some quicker licks and lines - I could feel that I would have crashed and burned. So I didn't try. Instead of failing, I played at speeds I was confident and comfortable with at that moment.
That's a good idea. I remember that we played the coldest day of the year at an open place. I didn't have a good time, my hands were frozen and playing the faster licks has been a tricky job. The best would have been to go for the safe side, however it would be weird for Cirse's fans to hear simplifies versions of the solos, wouldn't it?
Posted by: dcz702 Jun 8 2014, 08:20 PM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 7 2014, 03:05 PM)
I'm used to receive students who want to learn to play fast. Some times they are obsessed with this and they push themselves a lot to achieve this goal, even sacrificing cleanliness, clearness and sound of their playing,
Do you perhaps push speed a little too much, just because you so desperately want to reach those 150 bpm? Does it really matter if you’re in full control, no one will hear if you miss a note anyway… or?
Do you perhaps push speed a little too much, just because you so desperately want to reach those 150 bpm? Does it really matter if you’re in full control, no one will hear if you miss a note anyway… or?
i think its most important to play clean! i feel if i cant play it clean i cant play it.
i have a goal for my level of playing now and its a heafty goal for me. for instance darius's alternate picking workout, i know i can play it, but im not pushing it, and eventually if i can get there, it will open up more possibilities on what im able to play, cause alot of music i listen to uses that technique.
and im downpicking if i cant play 100 bpm clean, how can i expect to play 180 alternate, i move back and forth from those lessons, and remebering i want to make music to.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 8 2014, 08:26 PM
QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 8 2014, 04:20 PM)
i think its most important to play clean! i feel if i cant play it clean i cant play it.
i have a goal for my level of playing now and its a heafty goal for me. for instance darius's alternate picking workout, i know i can play it, but im not pushing it, and eventually if i can get there, it will open up more possibilities on what im able to play, cause alot of music i listen to uses that technique.
and im downpicking if i cant play 100 bpm clean, how can i expect to play 180 alternate, i move back and forth from those lessons, and remebering i want to make music to.
i have a goal for my level of playing now and its a heafty goal for me. for instance darius's alternate picking workout, i know i can play it, but im not pushing it, and eventually if i can get there, it will open up more possibilities on what im able to play, cause alot of music i listen to uses that technique.
and im downpicking if i cant play 100 bpm clean, how can i expect to play 180 alternate, i move back and forth from those lessons, and remebering i want to make music to.
Well done! You already have that goal. How is your plan? how many diary time do you practice?
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 9 2014, 07:15 AM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 8 2014, 07:01 PM)
Thanks for summarizing Cosmin. Can't agree more about the advantages that recording can give us, not only to develop our technique, and improvisations, also to be able to analyze our compositions alone and with our bands. I could notice that it's very difficult to have a sense of the whole thing when we are playing and composing with the band. The only way to be sure if the arrangements, structure and ideas of a song are working is to using all our attention to just listen.
Precisely! This is one of the important part of our Days of Confusion working routine. We each record ideas at home or together at the rehearsal room and try to take them as far up as possible at home, in respect to orchestration and detail. Once we get together again, we share the ideas and then we try to put some together in order to form more elaborate structures.
How does the process occur for Cirse?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 9 2014, 02:30 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 9 2014, 03:15 AM)
Precisely! This is one of the important part of our Days of Confusion working routine. We each record ideas at home or together at the rehearsal room and try to take them as far up as possible at home, in respect to orchestration and detail. Once we get together again, we share the ideas and then we try to put some together in order to form more elaborate structures.
How does the process occur for Cirse?
How does the process occur for Cirse?
In our case, I have been the music composer so everything started in my home, recording using software like Cubase or Nuendo, in the early days I used Cakewalk 9. Then we played it at the rehearsal room to arrange the songs, and to see how it feels live. Sometimes structure and parts are changed so then is when the recording rehearsals become important.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 10 2014, 10:41 PM
It's always a matter of mixing and matching until the final form is ready. We have some doubts about some songs which were on the EP 
But that's just crazy man! I always tell Cezar it's nonsense to think like: 'Ah, we could've done better!' Not at that point! That was the BEST thing we had back then Have you had such thoughts?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 11 2014, 03:16 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 10 2014, 06:41 PM)
It's always a matter of mixing and matching until the final form is ready. We have some doubts about some songs which were on the EP But that's just crazy man! I always tell Cezar it's nonsense to think like: 'Ah, we could've done better!' Not at that point! That was the BEST thing we had back then Have you had such thoughts?
But that's just crazy man! I always tell Cezar it's nonsense to think like: 'Ah, we could've done better!' Not at that point! That was the BEST thing we had back then Have you had such thoughts?Definitely! Each album of my band is a picture of the moment, it reflects what we were at that time. Sometimes, working too much on an albums quits its essence.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 12 2014, 08:30 AM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 11 2014, 02:16 PM)
Definitely! Each album of my band is a picture of the moment, it reflects what we were at that time. Sometimes, working too much on an albums quits its essence.
You must agree that there's a very thin line between knowing when it is done and continuing to push
How do you usually figure that out? Is it a consenssuous feeling from all the band, or?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 13 2014, 04:05 AM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 12 2014, 04:30 AM)
You must agree that there's a very thin line between knowing when it is done and continuing to push How do you usually figure that out? Is it a consenssuous feeling from all the band, or?
How do you usually figure that out? Is it a consenssuous feeling from all the band, or?I decided to let that another person mixes my band's albums to avoid this problem.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 13 2014, 01:20 PM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 13 2014, 03:05 AM)
I decided to let that another person mixes my band's albums to avoid this problem.
Well, in our family, that doesn't work
I think Cezar would go nuts if he wouldn't have anything to say about when things are done and why
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 13 2014, 02:17 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 13 2014, 09:20 AM)
Well, in our family, that doesn't work I think Cezar would go nuts if he wouldn't have anything to say about when things are done and why
I think Cezar would go nuts if he wouldn't have anything to say about when things are done and why hahaha so you are the one who needs to say, this is done!
I remember that once Slash said that Axl was extremely obsessive when they were working on Use your illusion albums (he is still now, he's been lots of years with Chinese Democracy). He said that they had to send the album to mastering without telling Axl, because there was no end for him, there was always something to improve.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 14 2014, 07:25 AM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 13 2014, 01:17 PM)
hahaha so you are the one who needs to say, this is done!
I remember that once Slash said that Axl was extremely obsessive when they were working on Use your illusion albums (he is still now, he's been lots of years with Chinese Democracy). He said that they had to send the album to mastering without telling Axl, because there was no end for him, there was always something to improve.
I remember that once Slash said that Axl was extremely obsessive when they were working on Use your illusion albums (he is still now, he's been lots of years with Chinese Democracy). He said that they had to send the album to mastering without telling Axl, because there was no end for him, there was always something to improve.
Not necessarily me, but I am the more pragamatic one sometimes. Me and him, we are a team that completes itself in many aspects
He is a perfectionst and I learned that from him, I am pragamatic and he learns that from me and so on.I always like to be able to teach and learn in the same time, so the sort of people that have the same manner of thinking are really the kind of guys and gals I want near
How do you see the folks in your band? Are they all trying to improve all the time? Are they lazy, motivated?
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 14 2014, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 14 2014, 03:25 AM)
Not necessarily me, but I am the more pragamatic one sometimes. Me and him, we are a team that completes itself in many aspects He is a perfectionst and I learned that from him, I am pragamatic and he learns that from me and so on.
I always like to be able to teach and learn in the same time, so the sort of people that have the same manner of thinking are really the kind of guys and gals I want near How do you see the folks in your band? Are they all trying to improve all the time? Are they lazy, motivated?
He is a perfectionst and I learned that from him, I am pragamatic and he learns that from me and so on.I always like to be able to teach and learn in the same time, so the sort of people that have the same manner of thinking are really the kind of guys and gals I want near
How do you see the folks in your band? Are they all trying to improve all the time? Are they lazy, motivated?I'm very happy to say that each member of my band is continuously growing, studying and improving as a musician. We are 5 musicians dedicating professionally to music and this can be noted in our music and shows. I can see how Cirse keeps on improving from show to show and from album to album. Seeing my band mates with this attitude motivates me to compose better songs and to keep on studying and improving as a musician.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jun 15 2014, 08:14 AM
QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 14 2014, 07:22 PM)
I'm very happy to say that each member of my band is continuously growing, studying and improving as a musician. We are 5 musicians dedicating professionally to music and this can be noted in our music and shows. I can see how Cirse keeps on improving from show to show and from album to album. Seeing my band mates with this attitude motivates me to compose better songs and to keep on studying and improving as a musician.
That's how it should be mate! I am glad to see that Cirse is driven by this attitude
Musically, we share the same attitude, but unfortunately, we need to learn how to manage the band better as there is no manager in here who wants to deal with a band that doesn't feature a skimpy looking trio of blonde girls that dance more than sing, for instance
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 15 2014, 07:35 PM
QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 15 2014, 04:14 AM)
That's how it should be mate! I am glad to see that Cirse is driven by this attitude Musically, we share the same attitude, but unfortunately, we need to learn how to manage the band better as there is no manager in here who wants to deal with a band that doesn't feature a skimpy looking trio of blonde girls that dance more than sing, for instance
Musically, we share the same attitude, but unfortunately, we need to learn how to manage the band better as there is no manager in here who wants to deal with a band that doesn't feature a skimpy looking trio of blonde girls that dance more than sing, for instance hahah yeah, manager will appear, at first it's difficult, we must do all the job. Maybe finding a friend who loves music and that would do all that work could be a good idea. That's what we did at first, we found a girl who was into the music scene, because she was the girlfriend of a known musician and also our friend. She was a good first manager for us.
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