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Posted by: SonofDestiny Feb 1 2009, 08:06 PM

Hey guys.. I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to get personal on you all as well.

Ten minutes ago my mum and brother entered my room crying. My dad hit my twelve year old brother again with no reason and pushed my mum hard aside. It has been like that for a couple of years. My brother and dad just don't fit in one home (because my dad is a dumbass with an IQ below 60 and Asperger and my brother is a bit annoying sometimes). My mum tries to keep both sides happy, but there's no way to do that. My other brother is more like my father. Dumb, no empathy, somebody who just exists, but doesn't think about life. He's getting spoiled a lot by my dad. I love my brother though. Things are different with my dad. I really hate him. I swear, this isn't something caused by puberty. While my bro is getting beat up I'm just sitting here and I don't know what to do. Right now I just wanna walk down the stairs and make him deal with someone of his own size. See how he likes that. But I know that isn't the solution. Talking won't work either, because obviously he's always right.

Look... I'm sorry for posting this. I really am. But I have to get this out and get advice. I can't call the Domestic Violence Police for things will be a lot worse then. I just don't know what I can do... it's like this family is broken and never to be mended again. I never cared a lot, but now my mum started crying and told me she didn't know what to do... Man... Coherence in this story is far to found as well, so I'm going to stop.

Any advice is welcome guys..

Posted by: utak3r Feb 1 2009, 08:12 PM

Oh man...

There's no good advice here...
I know you sometime would want to give him a lesson, but it would be like you come to his level - and that would be bad, you just have to be better than that...
On the other side, bringing it out to the police would probably help physically, but it will end the family life - although all of you should think about it, if this life exists now... maybe it would be a good path?...
Keeping things as they are - well... it can go further and start to be really bad...

So, I just really don't know what to do. All you three should think about ending this whole thing - divorce?.... hm.

Posted by: Sondre Feb 1 2009, 08:16 PM

If he is beating a 12-year old he should not be anywhere near him. I think you should call the police. You will still have your brother and mom?

I am sorry to hear about the situation, and I am probably not the best at giving advices in such a case.

Posted by: Mandos Feb 1 2009, 08:21 PM

There is only one solution to this and that is to call the police and to move away from him. It is the only way for you to settle this, especially since you said that it wasn't the first time.

Posted by: Enucleation Feb 1 2009, 08:26 PM

I know that you think it will only make it worse and maybe it will at first but call the police, it will be the best in long run.

I'm sure you are aware this isn't something to mess around with. More violence isn't going to solve anything it seems liek your dad really is dangerous. No family deserves this, please call the police. I'll be praying for you.

Posted by: SonofDestiny Feb 1 2009, 08:27 PM

Hmm Moving away seems the only option. Look, I'm thinking of living on my own. Dorms? Is that the word? Like where the students live. But I'm really really scared of what will happen to my brother and mother. It would suck a lot if I came home and they would both lie on the floor with their skulls bashed in. I know I'm exaggerating, but I'm really having these thoughts now.

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Feb 1 2009, 08:28 PM

Divorce is the key. Your father is a source of pain, sorrow and money for Your family. Divorce will limit all of these, but money the least most probably. Of course the decision isn't Yours... Living with an aggressive father is a bad thing, living without him is way better, and I know that from my own experience, even though there was no serious fighting in my home.

Posted by: Enucleation Feb 1 2009, 08:29 PM

That's exactly why you should call the police. A 12 year old can't defend against a grown man.

Posted by: SonofDestiny Feb 1 2009, 08:29 PM

Hmm Moving away seems the only option.

I'm thinking of living on my own. Dorms? Is that the word? Like where the students live. But I'm really really scared of what will happen to my brother and mother. It would suck a lot if I came home and they would both lie on the floor with their skulls bashed in. I know I'm exaggerating, but I'm really having these thoughts now. This one time when I was younger my dad was angry and he pushed me off the chair. It wouldn't be killing on purpose, but had I fallen the wrong way I'd be pretty long gone.

And about the divorce... My mum couldn't handle it. She needs a lot of rest and she can't work fulltime and be the housewife. She would collapse within a week or two..

Posted by: Marek Rojewski Feb 1 2009, 08:41 PM

Look, You are in a hard situation. Your mother will suffer more with Your father than without him ( most probably, again my experience and thoughts ). Of course it wouldn't be easy, but no one said it will be easy.. Your father would have to pay some money to the family, maybe the state would also give some help ( don't know how it works in the Netherlands ). Besides You could also help Your mother in the house/work part time.

I don't know what to say really... My father is an aggressive person, but he isn't dumb, the opposite he is darn intelligent and because of that he can be really "evil"... Years ago my mother wondered if she should divorce with him, but I was against it. I "wanted to have both mother and father". Women listen to their hearts to much sometimes, and so she did not divorce. How I wish it was different! Many wasted years, sleepless nights and all for nothing. Now we live apart, even though there was no divorce. It is much better than it was before. It brings many problems, but the effect is worth the effort...

Posted by: MickeM Feb 1 2009, 08:44 PM

I don't have time right now to write a long reply though I wish I could.
A dad with no empathy and no knowledge of what his action does to others. Asperger can be inheritated so if your brother got it too, well... not a match made in heaven.

What your dad will understand is if you tell him next time you'll call the police. Able or unable to reason and understand consequences he's fully aware what he does isn't appreciated by the low enforcement.
You could tell him a thousand times to stop hitting your brother but that'll neber stop.

Can't tell you what to do though but appearantly he's leaving you alone though? So perhaps it's safe for you to tell your dad the consequences with the police if he continues.
I'm not sure he will care and just think you're goofing around so if you tell him, be prepared to make the call next time.

That's my advice. Could be awful, at least it's not professional. You could get professional advice you know, which will most certainly involve authorities too, but then atleast you got it from someone with training.

Ni kids deserve to be beaten up. What this does to your brother one can only guess. For certain is, if he has the same problem your dad does (hence no social interaction knowledge comes for free but must be learned and there are a full scale inbetween on and off ), is that he learns that fists > reason. And in the long run that could go very bad.

You, your brother and mother will feel a lot better without the abuse.


EDIT: And after calling the police the only way out may be moving away. Sounds like your mom is the only one with that problem. I think she could be brought to see it's important her kids are safe

Posted by: lcsdds Feb 1 2009, 08:44 PM

Very tough situation! Sorry to hear about it. Nobody wins with divorce but it might be a better option than the current situation. Wish I could be of more help.

Posted by: Enucleation Feb 1 2009, 08:47 PM

I think MickeM is looking in the right direction. Personally I don't believe in divorce but it is a better solution than doing nothing. You need to call in some help man.

Posted by: SonofDestiny Feb 1 2009, 08:54 PM

Thank you guys so much. It means a lot!

I don't think I have the courage to stand up to my dad and tell him I'm going to call the cops on him if he does this again. Maybe I will have that strength next time.

I think the reason he leaves me alone is probably because I can take him. It's not like he likes me more or something. There's no way I can have a conversation about him if it's not functional. The only times we talk is when we have to eat or go somewhere. You know, I'm kind of realising that I may never have had a real dad. I mean.. what are your dads like guys? A lot of friends love their dads, have conversations with em.. What is it like to have a good dad?

Man.. my head is completely overcrowded right now. I'm so overwhelmed. Thanks a lot again for the comments, but I really have to go back to studying. Will read this topic later on tonight and reply.

Posted by: javari Feb 1 2009, 09:14 PM

Als je broer minderjarig is kan je altijd naar jeugdzorg gaan en advies vragen.
Ze kunnen je in ieder geval op weg helpen...
Ook een wijkagent of een huisarts kan je op weg helpen. Een huisarts heeft beroepsgeheim, hij mag dus niets tegen anderen zeggen.
Ook bij de andere instanties kan je vragen om een vertrouwelijke behandeling.

Niemand kan van jou verwachten dat je zelf ingrijpt...

sterkte.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 1 2009, 09:17 PM

By the sounds of it you have never really told anyone about what happens at home. I don't know if this is of any comfort to you right now - but what you have just done might be a turning point in you and your family's life.

However as MickeM said - none of us are professionals here. I am very scared of giving any sort of advice because you have a very dangerous person close to you.

What I can tell you is that anyone you tell your story to will encourage to as quickly as possible get out of your situation. Even if your family physically survives this - for the sake of your mental health you must find a way out of this.

Do you know anybody (at school etc) who you trust, and who you can tell your story to? This person could then connect you with the appropriate local authorities in the Netherlands. Because such a young child is involved - my guess is that this kind of case will be a top priority (that is how I hope things would work here in Sweden - although I have never tried the system with this kind of case).

Another way would be for you to Google a little bit and try to find a telephone number or email address to a contact person to the authorities close to you, if people get a chance to hear your story they will be able to help you.

Posted by: Enucleation Feb 1 2009, 09:18 PM

I'm glad that you are prepared to do what needs to be done, just stay prepared and try not to make excuses when the time comes (not saying you would but this is obviously a hard situation). I know that your family will get through this!

Posted by: Jesse Feb 1 2009, 09:25 PM

Dude, dat is niet goed. Als je niet de kracht hebt om het hem te zeggen, vertel tegen je moeder dat je de volgende keer gewoon direct naar de politie stapt. Die zullen gelijk ingrijpen. Sterkte man, hoop echt dat het beter word, want dit kan zo niet langer.

English,

Dude, that's not right. If you don't have the strength to tell him directly, you could tell your mom that next time this happens your just going staight to the police, they will do something immediately, since it also involves an under-aged kid. Good luck man, I hope it gets better, because this can't go on any longer.

Posted by: Lian Gerbino Feb 1 2009, 09:37 PM

wow man, I´m really sorry.
I know violence is not the way but I´d wish go there and give him a lesson by myself! no body has permission to hurt people even if they are their own sons.
man, I think moving away is what you need. divorce is just a word, so talk with you mum about moving away from him. maybe to an uncle´s house or something like that, I dont know your posibilties.
but as kris said, contact with a person who is in charge of this kind of problems would be a solution.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Feb 1 2009, 09:38 PM

Because of the sensitive nature of this topic as well as our forum guidelines I would like to ask Jesse and Javari to post in English so that moderators can understand your posts, thanks!

Posted by: javari Feb 1 2009, 09:43 PM

just because it is sensitive I choose to reply in his own language.
I guess you have to trust us on this one...

Posted by: sted Feb 1 2009, 09:54 PM

Get help man, if not for your sake then your brothers, if you are cut up he must be going through hell. In UK we have a "child line" which kids can call in absolute confidence, the link below sounds like something similar for your country.

http://www.ombudsnet.org/Organisations/vieworg.asp?id=2567&fromEnoc=y

our hearts go with you.

Posted by: Rated Htr Feb 1 2009, 09:55 PM

Said it on msn bro...

Hope you get over the situation

Posted by: enforcer Feb 1 2009, 10:43 PM

Does your father drink? Does he do all this things in the influence of alchool?

Posted by: Ajmurrell Feb 2 2009, 01:10 AM

My personal advice is to get some professional advice. I'm not trying to say that following peoples advice here would be a bad idea, its just that with something this serious, you don't want to put yourself in harms way.

Do you have a confidential phone advice line in Holland? Or something like a Citizens Advice Bereau?

Don't want to step on anyones shoes here, I just think before following anyones advice, you should regonise none of us can give a professional opinion on this matter.

I am sorry to hear about it though, and wish you all the best. Do keep in touch and let us know you're ok.

Posted by: fatb0t Feb 2 2009, 05:11 AM

I'm sorry to hear this George... I had a friend once who had the same issue. His father was a military man and he thought it was normal to hit his kids and his wife...
My friend moved out when he was 18, it helped his situation - I don't know about his mom and his sister. I would advise you to tell your school psychologist if you have one.
You're dealing with a very difficult situation and there isn't much we can do from the confines of the internet. Your best bet really is professional help.
I hope everything works out..
-Jonathan

Posted by: SonofDestiny Feb 2 2009, 09:16 PM

Nope, he doesn't at all. I think he's been raised the same way as he's trying to raise us. My grandma is pretty cruel and my dad is her puppet. Whatever she says he will do. It's so stupid. We got him to a good point once, but then she told him not to be like that and he went mental again.

The weird thing that when he's not having his aggressive moods he is a nice guy. To the outside world he is always smiling and greeting everyone. Problem is that it's pretty fake. I talked to my best friend (well, nowadays ex-best friend) about this matter and he wouldn't believe me. Just acted like a proper smartass about it. That's why I just let this be..

My parents both have been in therapy already. So has my brother. That didn't work...

It's so weird. Right now I feel like a betrayer thinking of this stuff and talking about it. No fights today though.. thank god.

Posted by: enforcer Feb 2 2009, 09:42 PM

Man, if it is not alchool doing this to him and he is faking to outside that he is like a good man that is a serious problem. You cant just leave your mom and your brother like that. Things may look grim, but dont let this cloud your judgement. Things cant be worse than this. There is a notion in psychology called "Conditionned desperation" You might experience this.Things are bad, and you cant break this cycle in with the fear of getting things worse. But I believe they cant be any worse. You should talk to a neighboor about this, and let him/her talk to your mom, and make her justify your point. And let others call the police or social services. You cant let this continue like this. My mother is a family legal consultant and a lawyer specialised in family issues so I just asked her about this situation. Your family needs external legal intervention.

I hope you can get this right.

Posted by: Trond Vold Feb 3 2009, 12:00 AM

Ohman Thats a bad situation you got going on there.
Like the rest, i'm no professional and i'm not really sure how to advice on something like this.

But do you know if your brothers school-teachers have noticed something going on with him? Or knows that he's being beaten at home?
If they sense something is wrong, then they have a responsability to report it to the authorities.

Maybe something can be worked on from that angle? And this way you dont have to be the one taking that hard step to call it in yourself.

Posted by: opeth.db Feb 3 2009, 12:27 AM

Not a professional here but you owe it to your brother and your mother to do something and not sit on the side lines.

To many times people wait, wait, and wait only to find out the worst circumstances only to come true and your in denial the rest of your life asking yourself what you should have done.

My prayers are with you and your family.

Posted by: MickeM Feb 3 2009, 03:50 PM

Like many said, we're not professionals. We can't really present a solution that will hold water, infact, suggestions could though they sound good in theory make things worse. And we don't want to do that.

I hope there's a solution somehere for you and your brother to this problem. You're still young and shouldn't have to deal with this kind of problem, it's very unfair that you find yourself in that situation. So keep in mind there are people who do this for a living that could help.

I'm closing the thread now because of the sensitivity of the matter together with the fact that we're not really competent on the subject. We don't want to risk making things worse.

I think it's safe to say though that we all wish the best for you and your family.