Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ The Much Debated Digital Vs Analogue

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 21 2012, 09:26 AM

Guys, after posting a picture with the Aria guitar recording sessions, Gabe suggested I should share my thoughts on recording with a digital device rather than tube amps, which we used until now.

Fate had it that we had no studio at hand in this moment and we had to use the famed AxeFX smile.gif

All in a nutshell:

AxeFX - versatile, but way too complex for my taste. I simply don't like to spend that much time on figuring out a decent tone which I can use on a recording and that's a major downer.

Tube amps - every nuance is audible due to the high level dynamics, so you need to spend time recording as perfect as possible, but hey, the result can be brilliant, right? smile.gif

I can't say I dislike the results given by the AxeFX so far, but still (maybe I am too old fashioned?) I am craving after being able to record with a tube amp.

I will post samples of the tones we have created pretty soon, but until then let's share experiences on the matter smile.gif

Cosmin

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 21 2012, 09:46 AM

I think it definitely comes down to how much time you spend with a certain type of technology.. this will reflect how well you can use it and get what you want out of it. I love tubes too but I think if we were to spend the same amount of time working with digital guitar software we'd probably get adept at getting great tone out of that too smile.gif

However, in saying that, I still don't want to swap ! smile.gif

Posted by: tonymiro Aug 21 2012, 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 21 2012, 09:26 AM) *
... versatile, but way too complex for my taste. I simply don't like to spend that much time on figuring out a decent tone which I can use on a recording and that's a major downer.

Tube amps - every nuance is audible due to the high level dynamics, so you need to spend time recording as perfect as possible, but hey, the result can be brilliant, right? smile.gif

...


Good point Cosmin - Sometimes we can have too much choice. Studio tme is expensive and it's not good to be under pressure trying to find a good tone. One of the great things about analogue is that the controls tend to be much more immediate and intuitive.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 21 2012, 10:29 AM

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Aug 21 2012, 09:21 AM) *
Good point Cosmin - Sometimes we can have too much choice. Studio tme is expensive and it's not good to be under pressure trying to find a good tone. One of the great things about analogue is that the controls tend to be much more immediate and intuitive.


Andy Timmons said it too biggrin.gif and it's in my head since I heard it (not these actual words, but this is the main idea) : 'I'm a guitar player not a sound engineer - I need to turn 3 knobs and make things sound good, so I can enjoy my playing, not spend hours to get a decent tone'


Posted by: zoom Aug 21 2012, 12:29 PM

I agree. I started out with a pod and really struggle with tone even as a beginner. I don't have the patience even with my pod farm I use for uploading here I struggle. But plug in my fender blues junior with a few stomp boxes and wow! Easy.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 21 2012, 12:37 PM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 21 2012, 10:29 AM) *
Andy Timmons said it too biggrin.gif and it's in my head since I heard it (not these actual words, but this is the main idea) : 'I'm a guitar player not a sound engineer - I need to turn 3 knobs and make things sound good, so I can enjoy my playing, not spend hours to get a decent tone'


I agree. But then again I'm just not a gear head anyway ! smile.gif

Posted by: carminemarotta Aug 21 2012, 01:19 PM

I just bought my first but small tube amp (a Blackstar HT5, 5w) and I am impressed on the huge difference between it and the POD HD: the sounds is way much better.

Carmine

Posted by: PosterBoy Aug 21 2012, 01:31 PM

Andy Timmons is now in possession of an Axe Fx 2

Cosmin, the fractal forums are full of guys that do like to tweak and create great tones, I always start there.

Most of my patches are just slightly tweaked versions of a bank that YEK uploaded to the forum.

I still need to go through some of them as my goals and tastes change.

I have been with the Axe Fx for nearly 4 years, so I am well used to it (though the advanced options still baffle me!)


For versatility and to get lots of flavours you can't beat it, unless the studio has lots of amps and cab choices as well as mics and a decent engineer to position things just right.

I sometimes miss playing through an amp but not that often

Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 21 2012, 01:38 PM

I think this question has become irrelevant. For now, I can spot an Axe-Fx tone pretty quick. Axe-Fx, much like a 5150, or a Triple Rect, despits its variety of modelling, has shaped a sound of its own and has the digital signature. Not that any of thats bad, the Axe-2 is AMAZING.

That being said, soon, the difference won't be all that great. For now though, had I choice I would buy a 5150 smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 22 2012, 12:49 AM

Having had this Orange Jim Root Dark Terror sitting on top of my VETTA and switching between them I can safely say I'm shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, and amazed just how different two amps can be.

It seems blatantly obvious sonically that the sheer, cahones of deep/rumbling/thumping/body/etc. of the Orange Tube just can't be denied and I was a skeptic. WOW this thing is MEAN. Size of a shoe box and accidently deafened myself when I forgot about the STANDBY switch. Oops.

The sonic character seems most apparent at mid gain. This is where the orange really does shine. Even delicate strikes are articulate and full bodied. Power chords are almost too big and need to be restrained. EVen an open G chords just feels deep and HUGE. That kind of body on the high strings, in the low mid seems to be something tube amps like this one really shine at.

The only fault I can find so far, and it's pretty minor, is that by itself, it's really, really, really hard to get the Terror to CHUNK/GRIND in a Metallic/Gears Grinding way. Not to say it isn't heavy. It's just not the amp for MESHUGGAH. Palm muted triplets are not really it's cup of tea IMHO. But it was never really designed for that. So for pretty much anything you throw at it, just rolling back the gain a bit or tweaking the EQ yields vastly different tones. Almost sounds like a different amp. Very flexible. But DimeBag Darrell, or Chuck Schuldiner would need to keep looking. It's got a HUGE DEEP Black Sabbath vibe that tones down to be a killer blues, rock, lead, rythm, amp.

I played the MESA MINI and it has COMPLETELY different character. MUCH more Bite, Grind, bit hotter on leads. However, rolling the gain back didn't do the same thing as it does on the orange. It seems the ORANGE is nearly a different amp at each point on the gain/eq dial. Vast differences in tone from little tweaks. The MESA was WAAAAAYYYY more METAL, but the Orange did seem more versatile. I hate to say it you need both.






QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 21 2012, 04:26 AM) *
Guys, after posting a picture with the Aria guitar recording sessions, Gabe suggested I should share my thoughts on recording with a digital device rather than tube amps, which we used until now.

Fate had it that we had no studio at hand in this moment and we had to use the famed AxeFX smile.gif

All in a nutshell:

AxeFX - versatile, but way too complex for my taste. I simply don't like to spend that much time on figuring out a decent tone which I can use on a recording and that's a major downer.

Tube amps - every nuance is audible due to the high level dynamics, so you need to spend time recording as perfect as possible, but hey, the result can be brilliant, right? smile.gif

I can't say I dislike the results given by the AxeFX so far, but still (maybe I am too old fashioned?) I am craving after being able to record with a tube amp.

I will post samples of the tones we have created pretty soon, but until then let's share experiences on the matter smile.gif

Cosmin


Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 22 2012, 07:17 AM

Nice! Very nice! biggrin.gif Thanks Todd, well, I'd go for the Mesa anytime as it fits my band playing characteristics better, in respect to what you have told us about the Orange, but none the less. After watching this:



...I feel like maybe it's nicer to have a different amp for a different job and as the Captain Planet cartoon saying went back in the day: 'Let their powers combine!' for a serious sonic stage kitchen tongue.gif

Posted by: Max Sokolov Aug 22 2012, 10:14 AM

Yes, that's a good point!
I still can't say, that I'm getting 100% best sound for me from my Axe FX.
It sounds great, but it always seems, that it can be better, but I don't like to spend lots of time on tweaking..

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 22 2012, 10:52 AM

QUOTE (Max Sokolov @ Aug 22 2012, 09:14 AM) *
Yes, that's a good point!
I still can't say, that I'm getting 100% best sound for me from my Axe FX.
It sounds great, but it always seems, that it can be better, but I don't like to spend lots of time on tweaking..


I was expecting your input as well as Alex's, as the two of you are seasoned AxeFX users. I'll post the patches we've done and I pretty curious to see what you guys think smile.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 22 2012, 12:18 PM

QUOTE (carminemarotta @ Aug 21 2012, 12:19 PM) *
I just bought my first but small tube amp (a Blackstar HT5, 5w) and I am impressed on the huge difference between it and the POD HD: the sounds is way much better.

Carmine


Carmine! Hey man! How are you? Long time no speak smile.gif Can you tell us about your Blackstar experience? biggrin.gif

Posted by: carminemarotta Aug 22 2012, 02:58 PM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 22 2012, 12:18 PM) *
Carmine! Hey man! How are you? Long time no speak smile.gif Can you tell us about your Blackstar experience? biggrin.gif


Hi Cosmin
I am well and you? I can't say a lot about the amp, since it is my first real one. However the difference with my Vox Valvetronix amp or the POD is big, very big, much more than I expected. I bought the HT1 and because I liked it so much I decided to return it and take the bigger brother. Very wise decision since the full EQ control, the foot-switch and the effect loop are well worth the difference in price (let alone the 5W against the 1W).
All the best
Carmine

Posted by: ztevie Aug 22 2012, 06:44 PM

Being a "bedroom player" I must say that the piece of gear I've been most happy with is the Axe Fx II I got a few months ago... Everytime I turn it on it encourages me to play and never stop. I get this foolish lookin grin on my face cause it sounds so damn good!
I'va had a few amps in the past and also went thru some pods, but the Axe is in a league of it's own. Obviously I can't use a 100w tupe amp at home, but the Axe sounds so good, and has so many amps built in that I really can't imagine not having one now.
Even many factory persets sounds greta right out of the box, that was not the case with the Line 6 stuff. Also they keep developing it in a furious pace and it seems to get more open and alive each time a new firmware comes out.

I'm not a pro and I probably don't have an ear for the subtle differences tube vs Axe, but to my ears here at home the Axe is so open, allive, "tubey" and is so versatile with all the FX, amps and routing possibilities that it's all I ever need and more.
Of course you can tweak until your ears fall off, but the point is you don't have to. There are great patches available that will sound superb with minor adjustments to fit your own gear. With the Pod's I tweaked and tweaked and really never got that WOW-feeling. With tha Axe I don't tweak and have that feeling. I'm a happy camper!

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 23 2012, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (carminemarotta @ Aug 22 2012, 01:58 PM) *
Hi Cosmin
I am well and you? I can't say a lot about the amp, since it is my first real one. However the difference with my Vox Valvetronix amp or the POD is big, very big, much more than I expected. I bought the HT1 and because I liked it so much I decided to return it and take the bigger brother. Very wise decision since the full EQ control, the foot-switch and the effect loop are well worth the difference in price (let alone the 5W against the 1W).
All the best
Carmine


Sounds like an exciting experience mate biggrin.gif I'm happy for ya! How about your practicing? You haven't been visiting your thread in some time sad.gif

QUOTE (ztevie @ Aug 22 2012, 05:44 PM) *
Being a "bedroom player" I must say that the piece of gear I've been most happy with is the Axe Fx II I got a few months ago... Everytime I turn it on it encourages me to play and never stop. I get this foolish lookin grin on my face cause it sounds so damn good!
I'va had a few amps in the past and also went thru some pods, but the Axe is in a league of it's own. Obviously I can't use a 100w tupe amp at home, but the Axe sounds so good, and has so many amps built in that I really can't imagine not having one now.
Even many factory persets sounds greta right out of the box, that was not the case with the Line 6 stuff. Also they keep developing it in a furious pace and it seems to get more open and alive each time a new firmware comes out.

I'm not a pro and I probably don't have an ear for the subtle differences tube vs Axe, but to my ears here at home the Axe is so open, allive, "tubey" and is so versatile with all the FX, amps and routing possibilities that it's all I ever need and more.
Of course you can tweak until your ears fall off, but the point is you don't have to. There are great patches available that will sound superb with minor adjustments to fit your own gear. With the Pod's I tweaked and tweaked and really never got that WOW-feeling. With tha Axe I don't tweak and have that feeling. I'm a happy camper!


Mate there's nothing wrong with the fact that you like it smile.gif I have been using tubes a long time now and I don't really feel like changing anything, after trying the Axe. But if you are a happy camper, that's just swell biggrin.gif

Posted by: carminemarotta Aug 23 2012, 09:36 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 23 2012, 08:58 AM) *
Sounds like an exciting experience mate biggrin.gif I'm happy for ya! How about your practicing? You haven't been visiting your thread in some time sad.gif


Thanks Cosmin
since they stolen my pc, I haven't replaced it yet so can not record/follow lessons as much as before.

Take care
Carmine

Posted by: Fran Aug 23 2012, 01:10 PM

PODs resemble the way guitars sound in a recorded album, and they do a fine job, or at least that's what it seems to me. Real amps sound better because it's an actual amp with a 12'', 2x12 or even 4x12 cab roaring in the room. How could a POD (or any other gadget) match that?

Once recorded, even with a mike on the amp, when you listen to it on a CD or ipod, the punch is not there anymore. That's why LIVE music is a blast, right?

Just my 2 cents wink.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 23 2012, 01:16 PM

QUOTE (carminemarotta @ Aug 23 2012, 08:36 AM) *
Thanks Cosmin
since they stolen my pc, I haven't replaced it yet so can not record/follow lessons as much as before.

Take care
Carmine


I had no idea about the PC Carmine sad.gif Very sorry to hear that mate. Hope you'll be able to catch up soon and get a new one smile.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 23 2012, 06:20 PM

My attitude about this is very simple: I don't care at all if an amp is digital or analog, transistor or tube based, the only thing that matters to me is if I can get my sound. I am open for any new technique and I like checking out new gear, but as long as I can't get my sound with it, I am not interested. All my life I have been playing tube amps, they have been the only amps that delivered the tone that I was looking for, anything else was either lacking tone, power, warmth, gain... something was just not there. Like most guys in the 80's I started with Marshalls, I still have my good old JCM 800 somehwere. The amp was cool, but it didn't give me "my" tone yet, so in the early 90's I switched to Engl, I used an Engl Straight for some time, also a cool amp that got a bit closer to my sound, but it was still not the right one. Then, in 94 or 95, my search came to an end when I bought my first Tripple Rectifier, this was exactly MY amp and I finally got exactly the sound that I wanted, I had found "my" sound. I never stopped using my Tripple Rectos, and I guess I never will (there is no need to change when you have found what you were looking for), but still I check out other stuff as well. I had a couple of PODs, they were cool for recording at home, but they didn't give me my tone, I even tried playing a gig with a POD once, which was not satisfying at all, but well, I tried ;-) I used guitar rig at home, which was nice too, but also not anywhere near my Rectos, then I bought an Axe FX Ultra. This was the first unit that came close to my sound at least, I really liked it a lot and had it with me as a backup on the road (in case both of the Rectifiers that I normally have with me on tour shoud die ;-) ). Last year I bought an Axe FX 2, and guess what, I love it! It is the only device besides my Boogies that can give me my tone! I even played many shows with it over that last year (when we fly we don't take our full backline with us, it is way too heavy and therfore expensive to ship it across the globe) and I am perfectly happy with its sound. It is true of course, you can tweak yourself to death with this thing, but the good thing is: you don't have to! I geat great tones out of it without twisting everything. But well, in the end sound is something very personal, some people will love a device like the Axe FX, others will hate it, and that is perfectly ok. It is the same with guitars I guess, I love my Les Pauls, others love Strats, the next one wants a PRS or whatever... as long as we are all happy with our gear thats perfectly fine. I am just preparing a workshop kinda lesson for GMC dealing with exactly this topic: sounds and how to get them, and I will use the Axe FX for that workshop, I am already curious about your opinion.

Posted by: PosterBoy Aug 23 2012, 06:34 PM

I just found these soundclips and downloads from Ola Eugland of the Axe Fx Ultra

Are they useful Cosmin?




Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 24 2012, 07:55 AM

WELL SAID! And it's working because your tone RAWKS. The Boogie Triple is just a MONSTER and I"ve heard the Axe FX 2 get impressively close to it. Not to mention the Ultra 2 is smaller, lighter, easier to carry/gig etc. So having both is really a great idea.. But most of us would have to sell a kidney or two in order to get both, but we can dream!

THe only other thing I"ve heard to a really good job of tone matching is the KEMPER PROFILING AMP but it's much more limited than the Axe FX in terms of effects/routing/tweaking etc. But still a spiff unit.

Todd

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 23 2012, 01:20 PM) *
My attitude about this is very simple: I don't care at all if an amp is digital or analog, transistor or tube based, the only thing that matters to me is if I can get my sound. I am open for any new technique and I like checking out new gear, but as long as I can't get my sound with it, I am not interested. All my life I have been playing tube amps, they have been the only amps that delivered the tone that I was looking for, anything else was either lacking tone, power, warmth, gain... something was just not there. Like most guys in the 80's I started with Marshalls, I still have my good old JCM 800 somehwere. The amp was cool, but it didn't give me "my" tone yet, so in the early 90's I switched to Engl, I used an Engl Straight for some time, also a cool amp that got a bit closer to my sound, but it was still not the right one. Then, in 94 or 95, my search came to an end when I bought my first Tripple Rectifier, this was exactly MY amp and I finally got exactly the sound that I wanted, I had found "my" sound. I never stopped using my Tripple Rectos, and I guess I never will (there is no need to change when you have found what you were looking for), but still I check out other stuff as well. I had a couple of PODs, they were cool for recording at home, but they didn't give me my tone, I even tried playing a gig with a POD once, which was not satisfying at all, but well, I tried ;-) I used guitar rig at home, which was nice too, but also not anywhere near my Rectos, then I bought an Axe FX Ultra. This was the first unit that came close to my sound at least, I really liked it a lot and had it with me as a backup on the road (in case both of the Rectifiers that I normally have with me on tour shoud die ;-) ). Last year I bought an Axe FX 2, and guess what, I love it! It is the only device besides my Boogies that can give me my tone! I even played many shows with it over that last year (when we fly we don't take our full backline with us, it is way too heavy and therfore expensive to ship it across the globe) and I am perfectly happy with its sound. It is true of course, you can tweak yourself to death with this thing, but the good thing is: you don't have to! I geat great tones out of it without twisting everything. But well, in the end sound is something very personal, some people will love a device like the Axe FX, others will hate it, and that is perfectly ok. It is the same with guitars I guess, I love my Les Pauls, others love Strats, the next one wants a PRS or whatever... as long as we are all happy with our gear thats perfectly fine. I am just preparing a workshop kinda lesson for GMC dealing with exactly this topic: sounds and how to get them, and I will use the Axe FX for that workshop, I am already curious about your opinion.



It's just impossible to go wrong with a BIG MEAN MESA!


QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 22 2012, 02:17 AM) *
Nice! Very nice! biggrin.gif Thanks Todd, well, I'd go for the Mesa anytime as it fits my band playing characteristics better, in respect to what you have told us about the Orange, but none the less. After watching this:



...I feel like maybe it's nicer to have a different amp for a different job and as the Captain Planet cartoon saying went back in the day: 'Let their powers combine!' for a serious sonic stage kitchen tongue.gif


Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 24 2012, 09:29 AM

QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Aug 23 2012, 05:34 PM) *
I just found these soundclips and downloads from Ola Eugland of the Axe Fx Ultra

Are they useful Cosmin?





These sound nice man! This dude must've taken good time to understand and tweak the unit - congrats to him! I will download the presets and see if we can do something with them. Thank you mate biggrin.gif




QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 23 2012, 05:20 PM) *
My attitude about this is very simple: I don't care at all if an amp is digital or analog, transistor or tube based, the only thing that matters to me is if I can get my sound. I am open for any new technique and I like checking out new gear, but as long as I can't get my sound with it, I am not interested. All my life I have been playing tube amps, they have been the only amps that delivered the tone that I was looking for, anything else was either lacking tone, power, warmth, gain... something was just not there. Like most guys in the 80's I started with Marshalls, I still have my good old JCM 800 somehwere. The amp was cool, but it didn't give me "my" tone yet, so in the early 90's I switched to Engl, I used an Engl Straight for some time, also a cool amp that got a bit closer to my sound, but it was still not the right one. Then, in 94 or 95, my search came to an end when I bought my first Tripple Rectifier, this was exactly MY amp and I finally got exactly the sound that I wanted, I had found "my" sound. I never stopped using my Tripple Rectos, and I guess I never will (there is no need to change when you have found what you were looking for), but still I check out other stuff as well. I had a couple of PODs, they were cool for recording at home, but they didn't give me my tone, I even tried playing a gig with a POD once, which was not satisfying at all, but well, I tried ;-) I used guitar rig at home, which was nice too, but also not anywhere near my Rectos, then I bought an Axe FX Ultra. This was the first unit that came close to my sound at least, I really liked it a lot and had it with me as a backup on the road (in case both of the Rectifiers that I normally have with me on tour shoud die ;-) ). Last year I bought an Axe FX 2, and guess what, I love it! It is the only device besides my Boogies that can give me my tone! I even played many shows with it over that last year (when we fly we don't take our full backline with us, it is way too heavy and therfore expensive to ship it across the globe) and I am perfectly happy with its sound. It is true of course, you can tweak yourself to death with this thing, but the good thing is: you don't have to! I geat great tones out of it without twisting everything. But well, in the end sound is something very personal, some people will love a device like the Axe FX, others will hate it, and that is perfectly ok. It is the same with guitars I guess, I love my Les Pauls, others love Strats, the next one wants a PRS or whatever... as long as we are all happy with our gear thats perfectly fine. I am just preparing a workshop kinda lesson for GMC dealing with exactly this topic: sounds and how to get them, and I will use the Axe FX for that workshop, I am already curious about your opinion.


Marcus smile.gif I totally agree with you mate - it's a matter of personal choice in the end. I am looking forward to the lesson! And I love the story behind your search for the personal tone smile.gif

I started this thread, because I knew it will trigger a lot of action wink.gif and lots of interesting and useful input from everyone here smile.gif

Thank you good sir! smile.gif

Cosmin

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 24 2012, 12:51 PM

@ Todd: Yeah, neither a Rectifier nor an Axe FX is really cheap, and I am perfectly aware of the fact that there are a lot of kids out there that just can't afford those amps, but thank god they are not the only good sounding amps, there are always options. I also heard a lot of good things about the Kemper, but I never had the chance to play one myself so far, I'd like to try it though.

@ Cosmin: I love this thread, it will for sure deliver a very interesting discussion with tons of arguments for both sides. As I said the choice of gear in general is something very personal, what I just don't understand is when somebody completely rejects something without giving it a chance, and I know quite a lot of people who would never touch anything but a tube amp, cause anything else HAS to be bad in their opinion... Well, in my opinion there is life beyond the classic combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall, but as I said, thats a personal decision ;-)

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Aug 24 2012, 04:01 PM

MArcus , have you tried this lil ENgl Screamer?




I bet he's not serious enough for Blind Guardian gig, but for some rehearsing and recording?
I'm asking cos' i'm gonna buy it in some period..

I know a lot of guys here in Serbia who used Mesa Triple rectifier but at the end they sold it and got ENGL Powerball cos it just has more creamier sound...

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 25 2012, 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 24 2012, 11:51 AM) *
@ Todd: Yeah, neither a Rectifier nor an Axe FX is really cheap, and I am perfectly aware of the fact that there are a lot of kids out there that just can't afford those amps, but thank god they are not the only good sounding amps, there are always options. I also heard a lot of good things about the Kemper, but I never had the chance to play one myself so far, I'd like to try it though.

@ Cosmin: I love this thread, it will for sure deliver a very interesting discussion with tons of arguments for both sides. As I said the choice of gear in general is something very personal, what I just don't understand is when somebody completely rejects something without giving it a chance, and I know quite a lot of people who would never touch anything but a tube amp, cause anything else HAS to be bad in their opinion... Well, in my opinion there is life beyond the classic combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall, but as I said, thats a personal decision ;-)


Well, I totally agree with you Marcus - always try before you buy, applies here as well smile.gif Try and then make a statement smile.gif

Posted by: ztevie Aug 25 2012, 01:26 PM

I agree with Marcus. Everyone's taste is different, I've heard guys produce incredble tones with cheap transistor amps, and also heard bad tones from expensive tube gear. I guess it's true what they say, the tone is in the player more than anything else.

I love the Axe because I feel I can really get that tubey, organic tone I could get with a Marshall 100w top I used to have years ago, feeling is there, it's hard to describe in a better way. Could never get that close with all the Pod's I've used before. But not only can I get close to the MArshall tone, there are all these other amps inside the Axe that sounds really great. So for the price of one tube amp, I can have all those amps in my hand. For me, the tone is close enough, and when just playing and recording at home it's so much more convenient than using a big, loud amp which have to mic and everything.

Of course, it's not free, so I understand people hesitate putting in all that money in a single piece of gear...
To me, it was easily worth it, and I never smiled so much when playing as I do now... That's what it's all about, enjoy playing, no matter what gear you play thru!

Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 25 2012, 01:54 PM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 23 2012, 01:20 PM) *
Then, in 94 or 95, my search came to an end when I bought my first Tripple Rectifier, this was exactly MY amp and I finally got exactly the sound that I wanted, I had found "my" sound. I never stopped using my Tripple Rectos


Is that what you used on "A Night At The Opera" ? I'm quite infatuated with the production and sound of that album smile.gif

Posted by: Blister Aug 25 2012, 08:52 PM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 24 2012, 07:51 AM) *
@ Todd: Yeah, neither a Rectifier nor an Axe FX is really cheap, and I am perfectly aware of the fact that there are a lot of kids out there that just can't afford those amps, but thank god they are not the only good sounding amps, there are always options. I also heard a lot of good things about the Kemper, but I never had the chance to play one myself so far, I'd like to try it though.

@ Cosmin: I love this thread, it will for sure deliver a very interesting discussion with tons of arguments for both sides. As I said the choice of gear in general is something very personal, what I just don't understand is when somebody completely rejects something without giving it a chance, and I know quite a lot of people who would never touch anything but a tube amp, cause anything else HAS to be bad in their opinion... Well, in my opinion there is life beyond the classic combination of a Les Paul and a Marshall, but as I said, thats a personal decision ;-)



I agree, I love this thread, too! Extremely interesting & informative! smile.gif I hope it keeps going.

For me, of course, I am still in my baby steps & haven't even played on a tube amp yet. Right now I am happy playing thru my Pod Farm & TH1 amp modelers while I continue my search for the type of tone I like. I am sure I will get one of these low powered tube amps at some point like Carmine's Blackstar but I am also looking forward to Todd's video review of the Orange amp.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 26 2012, 11:39 AM

Hey Mr. Blister AKA Garry biggrin.gif Check this out: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=45576&view=findpost&p=602611

It's Todd's review AND some good stuff about the cabs as well wink.gif Enjoy!

Posted by: Blister Aug 27 2012, 01:27 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 26 2012, 06:39 AM) *
Hey Mr. Blister AKA Garry biggrin.gif Check this out: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=45576&view=findpost&p=602611

It's Todd's review AND some good stuff about the cabs as well wink.gif Enjoy!

Thanks a lot, Cos! Yeah, I have been following Todd's thread quite closely (title mentions upcoming video review) & that's why I'm looking forward to the video review! smile.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 27 2012, 12:13 PM

QUOTE (Blister @ Aug 27 2012, 12:27 AM) *
Thanks a lot, Cos! Yeah, I have been following Todd's thread quite closely (title mentions upcoming video review) & that's why I'm looking forward to the video review! smile.gif


I'd really like to hear some tones out of that little monster myself, so, let's stick around till' good ol' Todd is ready biggrin.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 27 2012, 12:14 PM

I never tried the Engl Screamer, actually I also never heard anybody playing through this amp, so I can't really say anything about it. But in general Engl have some really good amps for sure, I like Powerballs and this Special Edition (I think it is called like that). If in the end you prefer an Engl over a Mesa Boogie is a matter of taste, both are good amps, and of course there are other great amps out there too, so the choice is all yours smile.gif
Concerning what we used on A night at the opera, our guitar sound is a mix of several amps, actually pretty much every good production today uses more than one amp to get the guitar tone of choise. In our case we always have several Boogies, several Engls, a couple of Marshalls, a Soldano, we have 2 Axe FX II's, we have Pods... a lot of gear to chose from wink.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 27 2012, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 27 2012, 11:14 AM) *
I never tried the Engl Screamer, actually I also never heard anybody playing through this amp, so I can't really say anything about it. But in general Engl have some really good amps for sure, I like Powerballs and this Special Edition (I think it is called like that). If in the end you prefer an Engl over a Mesa Boogie is a matter of taste, both are good amps, and of course there are other great amps out there too, so the choice is all yours smile.gif
Concerning what we used on A night at the opera, our guitar sound is a mix of several amps, actually pretty much every good production today uses more than one amp to get the guitar tone of choise. In our case we always have several Boogies, several Engls, a couple of Marshalls, a Soldano, we have 2 Axe FX II's, we have Pods... a lot of gear to chose from wink.gif


Sounds like a table packed with goodies biggrin.gif Marcus, have you ever tried the Two Rock?

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 27 2012, 12:49 PM

Actually I don't even know what the Two Rock is, please enlighten me wink.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 27 2012, 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Aug 27 2012, 11:49 AM) *
Actually I don't even know what the Two Rock is, please enlighten me wink.gif


It's a very special (out of what I understood) guitar amp, played by John Mayer. It's supposed to be very expensive but it sounds heavenly for the sort of guitar stuff that John Mayer plays. I thought that maybe you have had the opportunity to bump into one of these at some point.

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 27 2012, 01:02 PM

Nope, I haven't, but from how you describe it I would love to give it a try.

Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 27 2012, 04:10 PM



No idea on the price though.

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Aug 27 2012, 05:13 PM

Yeah, sometimes the price makes me NOT want to try something anymore wink.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 28 2012, 11:18 AM

Hey mates... Check this link out smile.gif

http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/storyId-107/p-John_Mayer_Testing_His_Two_Rock_Signature_Amp/view.story.blog

Posted by: Sensible Jones Aug 28 2012, 11:53 AM

QUOTE (The Uncreator @ Aug 27 2012, 04:10 PM) *


No idea on the price though.

The Mayer Sig is based on the Custom Reverb model, which is an absolute bargain at £3,999!!!!
http://www.coda-music.com/rock-custom-reverb-signature-version-guitar-amplifier-head-p-8980.html
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 28 2012, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Aug 28 2012, 10:53 AM) *
The Mayer Sig is based on the Custom Reverb model, which is an absolute bargain at £3,999!!!!
http://www.coda-music.com/rock-custom-reverb-signature-version-guitar-amplifier-head-p-8980.html
biggrin.gif


I'll have 5 please biggrin.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 29 2012, 09:34 PM

I'd like to try the upcoming RANDAL (Mike Fortin) SATAN. It's Ola Englunds custom amp being built by Randall next year. I loved the WARHEAD and always wanted one. This sounds like a Warhead on Steroids!

http://www.randallamplifiers.com/News-and-Reviews/News/Ola-Englund-Summons-Satan.html

But check this out. It's Ola playing through an iPad! And it's just HEAVY AS HELL!!




Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 30 2012, 09:36 AM

It sounds amazing for an ipad smile.gif

When I think IPad, I see a small digital device that could never come up with such a heavy sound laugh.gif

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 29 2012, 08:34 PM) *
I'd like to try the upcoming RANDAL (Mike Fortin) SATAN. It's Ola Englunds custom amp being built by Randall next year. I loved the WARHEAD and always wanted one. This sounds like a Warhead on Steroids!


This should be good!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 30 2012, 10:24 PM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 30 2012, 04:36 AM) *
It sounds amazing for an ipad smile.gif

When I think IPad, I see a small digital device that could never come up with such a heavy sound laugh.gif

This should be good!


I was a skeptic myself! I have an ipad with the ALESIS DOCK and I bought the app that OLA is using in this video and WOW! It's just HEAVY and HUGE! The app is cheap. The ipad isn't though.

I'm amazed at how much killer tone the ipad with that particular guitar app can generate. You could honestly record with it and and be proud of the results. It's like they stuffed a big amp in the ipad.

Todd

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 31 2012, 07:30 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 30 2012, 09:24 PM) *
I was a skeptic myself! I have an ipad with the ALESIS DOCK and I bought the app that OLA is using in this video and WOW! It's just HEAVY and HUGE! The app is cheap. The ipad isn't though.

I'm amazed at how much killer tone the ipad with that particular guitar app can generate. You could honestly record with it and and be proud of the results. It's like they stuffed a big amp in the ipad.

Todd


One of my best friends has an IPad and I will urge him to buy the app biggrin.gif Can you please leave a link with it here, so that I may know what to tell him to buy? He is also a guitarist and he works for the PRS dealer (not to mention that he has a WOW collection of guitars biggrin.gif)

Posted by: korblitz Aug 31 2012, 08:03 AM

This is the webpage http://www.positivegrid.com/jamup/

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Aug 31 2012, 08:25 AM

Thanks K-man biggrin.gif

Posted by: Fran Aug 31 2012, 12:39 PM

Now that's interesting. Didn't know there was emulation software and guitar connection adapters for the ipad. Will definitely look into that!

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Aug 31 2012, 12:42 PM

I Hope THis RANdall Satan's Gona Breathe Devilish Fire itself!!! Buahaha

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 1 2012, 08:33 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 31 2012, 03:25 AM) *
Thanks K-man biggrin.gif


Well done! He beat me to it on that one! Here is Ola's original vid demo of POSITIVE GRID that made up my mind to buy the app. I was SHOCKED, shocked I say that anything like that could come out of an iPad!



QUOTE (Fran @ Aug 31 2012, 07:39 AM) *
Now that's interesting. Didn't know there was emulation software and guitar connection adapters for the ipad. Will definitely look into that!


You must have missed my IPAD MUSIC CREATION THREAD!

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=40775&hl=ipad

The ipad is more and more being used by pro's in studio settings. It's small, light, apps for everything and you can dock it and get balanced outs, midi, etc. But maybe that's just here in the states or for that matter, in my specific region and specific to rock and college/alternative music acts. I don't work with hip hop acts typically and I usually work in / around Atlanta.








Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 2 2012, 08:25 PM

Oh man... smile.gif So much digital - I am on your thread now Todd biggrin.gif

Posted by: Bossie Sep 3 2012, 03:05 AM

Guitar - cable -amp !!!! smile.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 3 2012, 06:16 AM

QUOTE (Bossie @ Sep 3 2012, 02:05 AM) *
Guitar - cable -amp !!!! smile.gif


It's the same for me mate wink.gif

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 3 2012, 08:44 AM

QUOTE (Bossie @ Sep 3 2012, 03:05 AM) *
Guitar - cable -amp !!!! smile.gif


That's something I understand ! cool.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 4 2012, 05:20 AM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 3 2012, 03:44 AM) *
That's something I understand ! cool.gif


That's something everyone understands I hope smile.gif Case in point! Here is OLA playing a MESA BOOGIE HEAD with OD808 Pedal in front of it. (The spiff little secret to many fine players tone is to put a screamer or 808 before the Mesa/Deizel etc.)



Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 4 2012, 06:40 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 4 2012, 04:20 AM) *
That's something everyone understands I hope smile.gif Case in point! Here is OLA playing a MESA BOOGIE HEAD with OD808 Pedal in front of it. (The spiff little secret to many fine players tone is to put a screamer or 808 before the Mesa/Deizel etc.)




tongue.gif My band mate Cezar does this with his Road King and TS 808 and I went a bit astray by using the Shur Shiba Drive too boost the tone

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 4 2012, 07:49 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 4 2012, 01:40 AM) *
tongue.gif My band mate Cezar does this with his Road King and TS 808 and I went a bit astray by using the Shur Shiba Drive too boost the tone


Same idea smile.gif It's a great way to make an amp really shine. I've seen people actually dissapointed with their new killer ENGL/MESA rig until they pop a little over drive pedal in front of it them BOOOOOOMMMM!!!

Shocking how less than $100 worth of stomp box can make thousands of amp shine.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 4 2012, 01:46 PM

Damn right! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 5 2012, 10:06 AM

So we reached "guitar-cable-stompbox-cable-amp" now? ;-) Well, I know a lot of people add a distortion pedal to a high gain amp, sometimes I think it really opens up the sounds, sometimes I don't really like the result. With my Rectifiers I never used any stomp boxes, I am with the guitar-cable-amp method here. Funny enough though, whenever I used a modeller, and no matter if it was guitar rig, a pod, something on my iphone or my beloved Axe FX, here I ALWAYS added a tubescreamer to my digital Rectifiers, it always made them sound MUCH better. And isn't it impressive what kind of sound we can get out of a device like an ipad? Going on tour with 2 iphones? I love the thought ;-) Would make logistics much more easy, I am sure our tourmanager would love the idea ;-) But well, my flight rack is down to 4 units already: Axe FX 2, Wireless System and a Power Conditioner, thats all I need to play a show if I can't take my full backline with me.

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Sep 5 2012, 10:10 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 4 2012, 06:49 AM) *
Same idea smile.gif It's a great way to make an amp really shine. I've seen people actually dissapointed with their new killer ENGL/MESA rig until they pop a little over drive pedal in front of it them BOOOOOOMMMM!!!

Shocking how less than $100 worth of stomp box can make thousands of amp shine.


C'mmon, who can be dissapointed with ENgl /Mesa tube head biggrin.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 5 2012, 10:17 AM

You would be surprised how many people buy such gear and are very dissapointed in the end. A big problem with tube amps is that for whatever reason it seems to be impossible to build two amps that sound the same. So people hear an amp, buy the same model but it turns out this one sounds completely different. Back in the 80s whn I was still playing Marshalls it was a nightmare, it was either heaven or hell. If you wanted to have a good amp you had to go to a shop, try all the amps they had and if you found the sound you were looking for you had to insist on getting exactly THIS amp. It got a bit better over the years, but the sound "tolerance" is still very big today.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 5 2012, 10:44 AM

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 5 2012, 10:10 AM) *
C'mmon, who can be dissapointed with ENgl /Mesa tube head biggrin.gif


I once bought an ENGL Powerball. It came all the way from Scotland and I sent it back the next day. I felt a bit bad but it didn't have enough juice for nice, fluid legato lines. For rhythm playing, it was great but I wanted just 1 amp that does it all without having to add any fx to it.

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Sep 5 2012, 11:40 AM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 5 2012, 09:44 AM) *
I once bought an ENGL Powerball. It came all the way from Scotland and I sent it back the next day. I felt a bit bad but it didn't have enough juice for nice, fluid legato lines. For rhythm playing, it was great but I wanted just 1 amp that does it all without having to add any fx to it.


DID u check the TUBES state?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 5 2012, 12:16 PM

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 5 2012, 11:40 AM) *
DID u check the TUBES state?


I can't remember... I probably would have checked everything to make sure I wasn't missing something.

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 5 2012, 03:40 PM

The problem is not the tubes, the amps just sound very different, no matter if we are talking about the same models. Andre, the other guitarist in Blind Guardian, is using Engl amps, and for one US Tour Engl provided him with a couple of Powerballs (since we don't fly our own amps across the world, way to expensive due to overweight regulations) and the amp that he used on that US tour really sounded great. So when we were back in Germany he aked Engl to send him a Powerball... well, they did, but this amp didn't sound ANYTHING like the one he used on tour, the sound was not even close! Seriously, I don't know why there are such BIG differences in amps, but fact is: there are!

Posted by: Andre Nieri Sep 5 2012, 03:44 PM

I'm all analogue with my giggin' rig but I can understand why some people use and love digital gear - it's much more easy to carry around, you don't mess up tubes and got more versatility (varietry of effects).

Posted by: Sensible Jones Sep 5 2012, 04:09 PM

QUOTE (Andre Nieri @ Sep 5 2012, 03:44 PM) *
I'm all analogue with my giggin' rig but I can understand why some people use and love digital gear - it's much more easy to carry around, you don't mess up tubes and got more versatility (varietry of effects).

Me too!
I wonder how long it will be before Guitarists just turn up with an iPad/Laptop etc and that's their whole rig in one unit!!
smile.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 5 2012, 04:09 PM

As I already mentioned, I couldn't care less about analog or digital, as long as it sounds great everything is fine for me. If it delivers my sound I will plug my guitar into a coffee machine wink.gif

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 6 2012, 09:59 AM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Sep 5 2012, 04:09 PM) *
If it delivers my sound I will plug my guitar into a coffee machine wink.gif


Now that would be a great idea !! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Sep 6 2012, 10:08 AM

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Sep 5 2012, 03:09 PM) *
As I already mentioned, I couldn't care less about analog or digital, as long as it sounds great everything is fine for me. If it delivers my sound I will plug my guitar into a coffee machine wink.gif


It is allowed, if it's made of pure STAINLESS STEEL!!!

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 6 2012, 10:25 AM

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 6 2012, 09:08 AM) *
It is allowed, if it's made of pure STAINLESS STEEL!!!


Slav, you must like Japanese Katanas as they are made out of many steel layers biggrin.gif

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 6 2012, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 6 2012, 10:08 AM) *
It is allowed, if it's made of pure STAINLESS STEEL!!!


Well, if you can plug into something that makes your guitar louder and makes you a cup of coffee, I don't care if it's made of rubber !! laugh.gif

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 6 2012, 10:25 AM) *
Slav, you must like Japanese Katanas as they are made out of many steel layers biggrin.gif


A Katana, however, will be no good to you at all if it were made of rubber.... ph34r.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 6 2012, 10:44 AM

Guys, I have sold my old little amp (Marshall AVT50) today for the magnificent amount of 200 euros smile.gif I didn't need it anymore as I am rehearsing with both Voodoo and Aria in the same rehearsal room now.

Did any of you own this piece of gear?

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Sep 6 2012, 11:06 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 6 2012, 09:44 AM) *
Guys, I have sold my old little amp (Marshall AVT50) today for the magnificent amount of 200 euros smile.gif I didn't need it anymore as I am rehearsing with both Voodoo and Aria in the same rehearsal room now.

Did any of you own this piece of gear?



Youi've sold AVT50X 2000 for 200 eur, right?

They'go in serbia up to 300 eur (i almost traded one week ago)

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 6 2012, 11:18 AM

QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Sep 6 2012, 10:06 AM) *
Youi've sold AVT50X 2000 for 200 eur, right?

They'go in serbia up to 300 eur (i almost traded one week ago)


Yup, well it was 10 years old so, I thought it was a fair price, judging on the amount of wear and tear it had due to gigging and rehearsals wink.gif

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Sep 6 2012, 12:18 PM

OOOh, then okay if u were jiggling with it wink.gif

Btw, i didn't get your question?

I owned AVT 20 , hybrid, it was good amp, with really bad clean channel (which was always dirty).

Posted by: Sensible Jones Sep 6 2012, 01:13 PM

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Sep 6 2012, 10:33 AM) *
A Katana, however, will be no good to you at all if it were made of rubber.... ph34r.gif

My Katana was awesome, it had some Rubber parts too!!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: Marcus Siepen Sep 6 2012, 04:26 PM

Lol, this is not a Samurai edition, is it? wink.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 7 2012, 07:39 AM

QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Sep 6 2012, 12:13 PM) *
My Katana was awesome, it had some Rubber parts too!!!
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


biggrin.gif Well, I was thinking about the one that cuts, but this is good too laugh.gif

Posted by: Ben Higgins Sep 7 2012, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 7 2012, 07:39 AM) *
biggrin.gif Well, I was thinking about the one that cuts, but this is good too laugh.gif


This one cuts up the road !!! And anybody who gets in its path !! cool.gif

That reminds me.. does anybody remember the old Sega Mega Drive / Genesis game series 'Road Rash' ? It was a bike racking game where you could hit other racers off of their bikes ! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Sep 7 2012, 05:19 PM

I kNOW iT!! biggrin.gif

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)