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Balkan Music Progressions
DenisN
Oct 17 2011, 12:12 PM
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 Posts: 157
Joined: 27-May 09
From: Zagreb
Hello Sinisa,

I found one of your old posts on the formum on Balkan music.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=39981

In that thread you had the progression

A Dm H7 E7.

I understand that progression is really std. in folk music and I would like to understand from where it comes from (which tonality mixes)
and what to play over it scale vise.

I undestand the harmonic minor, and chromatic passages are a good choise but I can not relate those chord to any tonlity.

As you are the GURU for around the world music I thought I could checkwith you ! smile.gif

BR,
Denis

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Sinisa Cekic
Oct 17 2011, 02:05 PM
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Hey Denis,

most of the music, which as our folklore and of most European countries ends up at the V7-I ( dominant 7th and tonic chord)! Majority of traditional music was created from these two chords. Later is added that subdominant (the IV chord), and so on..

The scales that are most used (depending on the type of progression) would be:
Major
Natural minor
Harmonic minor
Ohriental (Arabic)
Phrigian
Mixolidian..

Now, your question is a great introduction to my new episode of Around the World lesson series - Serbian Kolo !
Allow me a few days, since the lessons come out , and we'll discuss on this subject! wink.gif

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DenisN
Oct 17 2011, 03:50 PM
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Hey Siniša,

Ah, finally more traditional music on the site WEEE! biggrin.gif

Can't wait for it!

So basically what you sid it that the whole passge is in E major?

I took a look at at and besides that I can not ralete the Dm to it I suppose that the E7 should be just major.

I suppose the E7 is like 'It's not in the key but it sound good so we do it' but what about the Dm?

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Sinisa Cekic
Oct 17 2011, 11:21 PM
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From: Belgrade,Serbia
QUOTE (DenisN @ Oct 17 2011, 04:50 PM) *
Hey Siniša,

Ah, finally more traditional music on the site WEEE! biggrin.gif

Can't wait for it!

So basically what you sid it that the whole passge is in E major?

I took a look at at and besides that I can not ralete the Dm to it I suppose that the E7 should be just major.

I suppose the E7 is like 'It's not in the key but it sound good so we do it' but what about the Dm?


Wait, misunderstood Denis !

A Dm H7 E7 progression - A is tonic (root) note or chord ! Scales that I have mentioned belong to A !!!

A major
A harmonic....




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DenisN
Oct 18 2011, 01:05 PM
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Hi Siniša,

Aha I see so it is like this A(I) E7 (V7)....ok, understood.
But what about the Dm and H7?

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Ivan Milenkovic
Oct 18 2011, 02:07 PM
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From: Belgrade, Serbia
QUOTE (DenisN @ Oct 18 2011, 02:05 PM) *
Hi Siniša,

Aha I see so it is like this A(I) E7 (V7)....ok, understood.
But what about the Dm and H7?


If I may interfere for quick response: Dm can be found in the key of A major, but not H7. H note builds Hm chord in A major key.

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DenisN
Oct 18 2011, 02:14 PM
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Hi Ivan,

Are you sure regarding the Dm in A major? Isn't the D at IV degree?
The H7 confuses me as well.. smile.gif

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Maris
Oct 19 2011, 12:29 PM
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Hi there...what does H mean? Thanks...i'm very interested in this kind of music and i can't wait for serbian kolo lesson biggrin.gif

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DenisN
Oct 19 2011, 01:22 PM
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From: Zagreb
Hi Maris,

In America the C major scale would be:

C D E F G A B C

In Europe it is

C D E F G A H C

The Americans don't have the letter H in their musical alphabet. And also the B in europe is the Bb in America

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Ivan Milenkovic
Oct 19 2011, 02:16 PM
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From: Belgrade, Serbia
QUOTE (DenisN @ Oct 18 2011, 03:14 PM) *
Hi Ivan,

Are you sure regarding the Dm in A major? Isn't the D at IV degree?
The H7 confuses me as well.. smile.gif

Oops, sorry, yes you are right about Dm Denis, it's not in A major (permutation/mistake of mine). D forms D major, over Lydian. H7 is B7 actually, which again cannot be found there.


QUOTE (Maris @ Oct 19 2011, 01:29 PM) *
Hi there...what does H mean? Thanks...i'm very interested in this kind of music and i can't wait for serbian kolo lesson biggrin.gif

In European classic music theory (notably German), note "B" was marked as "H", and note "Bb" was marked as "B". Slight difference.

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Frederik
Oct 19 2011, 03:52 PM
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From: Aalborg, Denmark
I can't figure out the theory either. why does Dm go to B7. The rest is circle of 5'ths
My only far out shot is B is tritone to F(which is parallel major to Dm) so its a tritone substitution, but then again its F is not Dominant7n its major7

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Ivan Milenkovic
Oct 19 2011, 08:46 PM
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Now I'm confused as well huh.gif smile.gif

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Sinisa Cekic
Oct 19 2011, 09:24 PM
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I just browse accessible PDF documents relating to Serbian folk music, and no one has a valid explanation for how B(B7) appear in following A,Dm, E7 progression . My explanation would be -observe B7 as a passing or out-tonal dominant chord that leads to E7 !
Notice that I talk about B7! It's not necessarily always the dominant chord, in some songs is pure B major chord,but B7 sounds better resolved to E or E7 .
I will give you another example, a variation of the same progression (A,Dm,B,E7), but mixed with parallel chords :

A, F#7, Bm, A7, Dm, B7, E7 ! Now,look at leading line tones below, each note have his own chord..
A, Bb B C# D Eb E

Comments ?

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DenisN
Oct 21 2011, 09:15 AM
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Hello guys,

I have tried to figure this out with some commo sence (don't know how common biggrin.gif).

I just tried to fugure out how I can put the Amaj Dm E7 and B7 into one cotext without jumpint out to far form one tonallity.
Perhaps it is a wrong approach but here it is smile.gif

The A harmonic minor is:
A B C D E F G# A

The chords I can find in it are: V7 (E7) IVm (Dm)

The closest minors to Am are Dm and Em.

Dm Harmonic:
D E F G A B C# D

The chords I can find in it are: Vmajor (A) VIIm (Dm)

Em Harmonic:

E F# G A B C D# E


The chords I can find in it are: V7 (B7)

So lets say the phrase floats around Am Dm and Em

But in the end with Am Dm E7 it establishes it's tonality in A harmonic minor.

Well, perhaps this is all BS but I'll try to play a littl bit with this approach and see with what I can come up with.

Siniša,

Currently I don't have strenght for the new example biggrin.gif biggrin.gif ...when I chew this one I'll try the new one too (btw. the progression is a killer!
)

Can't wait for your lesson! smile.gif

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This post has been edited by DenisN: Oct 21 2011, 09:31 AM
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Ivan Milenkovic
Oct 21 2011, 02:37 PM
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From: Belgrade, Serbia
The way I would look at it is in the forms of note pattern that these 4 chords make:



it can be among other scales A major, F#m harmonic, A lydian, depending on the choice of notes.

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DenisN
Nov 2 2011, 10:06 AM
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Hey Siniša,

When is the lesson coming? smile.gif

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This post has been edited by DenisN: Nov 2 2011, 10:06 AM
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Sinisa Cekic
Nov 2 2011, 11:11 AM
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I hope these days Denis !The lesson will be a surprise even for me, hahaha! Thanks for your patience and interest man!

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