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GMC Forum _ Gabriel Leopardi _ Robbiej's Composing Workout
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 16 2015, 08:41 PM
Hello RobbieJ! Welcome to our thread for Gab's Army, my mentoring program. Based on some info that Bogdan shared with me, you are interested in developing you composition skills, so that's what we will work here!
Before we start I would like to know a bit more about you. Please tell me about your musical tastes, favorite musicians, things and situations that inspire you, and also a bit about your music theory and technique knowledge.
Do you have experience with band? Have you ever composed a song? Do you have some riffs or ideas on progress? Any video of you playing?
And off course feel free to share here everything you think that can help me to know you and your goals more.
I hope you enjoy our work here! 
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 16 2015, 10:36 PM
Hola Gabriel!! I'm really excited to begin my journey with your help and guidance. I am definitely interested in composition....but I believe that goes hand and hand with becoming a much better guitarist. I think that as my guitar skills develop, so will my composition skills. I would like to work on riffing and creating riffs......building alternate picking speed....chord progressions (normal and some unusual stuff) and soloing improvisation.
I grew up in the 80's hair band era and love bands like Dokken, Ratt, Poison, GNR, Bon Jovi, Van Halen, etc ( currently am really in to Steel Panther, Satchel is incredible....I also love the playing styles of Theodore Ziras and Andy James).
I played in a high school band (20+ years ago) but I never took any type of guitar instruction. I learned everything either from friends, by ear or by a tab book. I could play songs, but I never really understood why I was playing the notes or chords while jamming the song. I definitely couldn't improvise because I didn't know any of the pentatonic or modal shapes. I stopped playing after high school and picked the guitar back up a little over a year ago. I decided I wanted to actually learn how to play the instrument rather than just being able to play other people's songs. So I started taking lessons and learning all of my shapes and modes. Although I can stay in a particular key when soloing, I don't really have a bag of licks to pull from...I kind of just move around the scales and try to come up with something that sounds somewhat melodic. I want to change all of that.
I hope this gives you a better understanding of where I am as a guitarist and where I want to be.
I will post a video on GMC this weekend...I started working on a video lesson and will post my take so you can see and hear.
Looking forward to beginning our journey. Thanks again!!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 16 2015, 11:21 PM
Hi Rob! Thanks for your info!
I agree that you need to work in parallel on your playing and your composing skills, but the main goal here is to keep both things connected most of the times. Everything should be seen in a musical way because we hear to learn to play and make music, not just do some guitar gym.
Based on your comments, I think that it could be really good to organize a plan that covers this things:
Soloing
- Work on a musical GMC solo lesson.
The idea is that you choose a solo lesson that you like and learn it. This will be a good way to start here. The idea is that you learn the licks, check the instructor's explanations about how he created the licks. Play the lesson using the backing tracks. Create variations of the licks, and combine them with your own improvisations using the scale suggested by the instructors.
This workout will also let me check which technique need more work, so then I'll assign specific lessons or exercise for it. If it's possible, record yourself playing the lesson, and share the video here. Let me know what lessons you have in mind and I'll help you choose.
Composition
- Learn some basic harmony theory
Reading one topic each day from this board is enough. Please read it and play the ideas and examples in your guitar. LINK http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=47852
- Analyze a song (Structure)
On this first week, we will focus on song's structure. Please choose 5 songs that you like and analyze the structure of them. (Intro, verse, chorus, etc). Share your analysis here.
- Start creating your library of ideas.
Create a folder in your computer and start to record and save there all the licks, riffs, or progressions that you create and you like. Start building your library of ideas. Put a name that identifies each idea to find it later soon to continue it or to using it for a song in progress.
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 17 2015, 01:23 AM
I can't tell you how excited I am to start working with you. I really want to learn and get better.
I actually started working on Lian Gerbino's "Love Song Solo" last night (it's fairly easy and will be great for me to get my feet wet with here at GMC). I'll post a video of it either tonight or tomorrow for you to see. Where do I post the video? Here on our thread? If so, how? LOL.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 17 2015, 02:44 PM
Great! You can post your video here, or also at http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showforum=152 and notify me here. The difference is that your takes are graded and commented by other instructors besides me at REC. This is an advantage because you have more feedback and more points of view. However both options are ok for me. 
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 18 2015, 02:19 AM
I'm trying to figure out how to record the video without using an external mic. I want the audio to sound great so I want to go direct drive. I just haven't gotten it quite worked out yet. I plug in to Focusrite 2i4 and that goes USB to laptop. I use TH2 as amp simulator. I tried coming out of 2i4 and back in to computer mic input but it's not working...Not sure if it's my mic input or what. Either way, there are other ways of doing it...Gonna get it figured out and then post the Lian lesson. It's actually a little harder than it originally looked.
I'm also working on your Zakk Wylde Pinch Harmonics lesson. So I'll have two to post for you to see a couple of aspects of my playing. Thanks again!!!
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 18 2015, 06:46 AM
Wow Gab...the 165BPM for the Zakk pinch lesson is FAST. Holy cow.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 18 2015, 03:48 PM
Hi mate, please check this video with tips to record guitar videos:
and let me know if you can apply it and works.
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 19 2015, 08:14 PM
Thanks Gabriel for the tips on creating a good video. I will give it a try this evening.
Here is a quick clip of a part of a song that I recorded the other day. Could be used as an intro and the chorus of a song. Let me know your thoughts on what I can do to make it better. I'm a bit of a perfectionist...That's a good thing...but can also be a really bad thing. It's "good" because I always want to put my best out there....It's "bad" because I always think I can do better......Let me know what you think I can do to spice it up and make it better.
I wanted the minor sound but also wanted the upbeat "swing" type rhythm and feel to it.
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 20 2015, 03:07 AM
Hi Robbie! I'm glad to know that the video helped! Looking forward your videos.
I can say that the intro song is very promising. I like the groove, the note choices, and that turnaround idea that includes a higher melody added by an extra guitar. I'm not totally convinced of the drum kick, I wonder if the pattern used will be followed by bass. So the next step would be adding some bass to this one (You can use a virtual instrument if you don't have a real bass) to see how the whole band works for this intro.
About the repetitions, I think that once or twice would be ok, then the verse should start. Do you have some ideas for the next part?
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 20 2015, 04:33 AM
I can say that the intro song is very promising. I like the groove, the note choices, and that turnaround idea that includes a higher melody added by an extra guitar. I'm not totally convinced of the drum kick, I wonder if the pattern used will be followed by bass. So the next step would be adding some bass to this one (You can use a virtual instrument if you don't have a real bass) to see how the whole band works for this intro.
About the repetitions, I think that once or twice would be ok, then the verse should start. Do you have some ideas for the next part?
I'm thinking playing it once for the intro..then in to the verse.....Then probably once or twice for the chorus (depending on how the lyrics work out)...I just recorded it three times just to get a feel for it....I then added the ascending run to the first time and the a descending run to the last two just to get a feel for which I liked best. I don't have or play a bass, so please let me know about this "virtual" bass that you are talking about.
I don't have any real thoughts on the verse yet....How about you? Are you feeling anything? LOL.....I'd kind of like to do some cool riffing with pinch harmonics like the Zakk lesson of yours.....But I don't know where to start. Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated. This is why I strongly believe that the better the guitarist, the better the songs will be.
I've just recorded the Lian Love Song lesson and am splicing the music with the video right now...Hope to have it up in a few minutes.
Thanks again!!
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 20 2015, 05:08 AM
Gab, here is my first video...woooohooooo!!! It's not great, but it's a start. Let me know your thoughts. I'll be posting your Zakk lesson video shortly for your review and comments. Let's come up with a game plan to help me become a better musician/guitarist/composer. Thanks man!!
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 20 2015, 06:19 AM
Here is just the audio for the Zakk lesson. I'm still trying to figure out this video thing. I'll try and sort it out tomorrow. I did record a video for this audio, but I'm having trouble getting rid of the sound that the laptop mic picks up versus the live recording of Cubase.
Thanks!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 20 2015, 11:34 AM
Hi Robbie!! Congrats on your first video!! You look very confident in front of the camera! I can say that your take is VERY good, there is nothing very important to mark, and one thing that attracted my attention is how wide and balanced is your vibrato on this take. You have a good sense of timing and both your is very consistent. Great job!!
Zakk's lesson is also sounding really good. The harmonics sound good and the overall rhythm, except in some little section is played totally tight. You also have a good rhythm technique! Well done.
I think that your guitar tone could be better, it's a bit noisy and not very clear. What are you using to record it?
This lessons doesn't show weak points yet so I think that you are ready for more advanced stuff. Do you have any lessons in mind?
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 20 2015, 05:28 PM
Zakk's lesson is also sounding really good. The harmonics sound good and the overall rhythm, except in some little section is played totally tight. You also have a good rhythm technique! Well done.
I think that your guitar tone could be better, it's a bit noisy and not very clear. What are you using to record it?
This lessons doesn't show weak points yet so I think that you are ready for more advanced stuff. Do you have any lessons in mind?
Wow, thanks for the kind words....It was completely unexpected.
As far as recording...I run in to my Focusrite 2i4 and in to the computer...I use Cubase7 to record and TH2 for my amp simulator. I don't really have a lot of knowledge on the recording side, so maybe you can give me some Cubase tips on recording a great sounding guitar. I don't know what to do about an EQ, Noisegate, compressor, etc.
I think I will start working on the Neoclassical Etude #1 Lesson. It has the same level 5 rating but it looks much harder. Thoughts? If you had to choose a lesson for me which would it be?
Here is an issue that has been on my mind that I hope you can help me with........most of the lessons on GMC are basically guitar solos or mini songs. I understand that by me playing the lesson I am working on certain techniques, but I'm afraid that I'm not really learning how to create my own solos or songs, but rather just simply playing other people's work. If I learned every Van Halen song out there would that make me a great guitarist? I don't think so...If I could play each of the Van Halen songs great it would make me a guitarist that can simply play Van Halen songs....How can I go from playing other peoples stuff well to writing great pieces that others will want to copy? Does that make sense? Maybe another way of asking is this....How did you go from simply playing songs to being able to write your own songs and solos?
Being able to copy a lesson is great....but I want to be the one writing stuff that others want to copy.....and I'm not sure of the path that I need to take to get there.
I hope this makes sense.
Thanks again for your guidance!!
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 20 2015, 11:17 PM
I think I changed my mind....I'm going to do the "Three Level Pentatonic Solo" lesson by Marcus Lavendell. I'll start at the beginner lesson and then move to the intermediate and then advanced. This will hopefully get me thinking about how a solo can evolve and progress and can take a different shape as I start at the beginner solo and then advance the licks through the next two solos. Maybe it will open my eyes to how licks can be changed with timing, rhythm and additional notes to create a different feel. Hope that makes sense.
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 21 2015, 02:46 AM
Hi Rob!
Well, I think that you have the right equipment and software to get a good tone. Tone set is also something that requires practice, so my recommendation is to keep on exploring but also keep simple. Don't add lots of effects, processors, pedals, go simple, turn on an amp and a cabinet, and experiment with its settings. Most of the tones that you hear on albums and live are based on this basic combination, and many times guitarist only add a overdrive (tube screamer or similar).
About your question, that's a very important question!
Let me give you my point of view. There are many kinds of musicians, and as each of them is a person, each one has different tastes, different goals, different thoughts and many other things, because each of us is a unique person. So I cannot say that you will or won't be a better musician if you just practice songs by other persons. If your goal as a musician is to interpret music and not compose it, maybe the answer it yes.
Based on your question, I assume that one of your goals is to be able to write and perform your own music. In this case, learning to play songs by other people or lessons will give help you just with one dimension: performing. This is not a small thing, great composers like Beethoven, Mozart, and even guitarists like Steve Vai or singers like Fredy Mercury are/were incredible performers. However, if you also want to become a good composer, improviser, arranger or all of that, you have to analyze what you learn, the theory behind, pay attention to structures, tools to arrange songs, scales used, chord progressions, rhythms and all the things that can make you understand what you are playing. GMC lessons include description with comments about how the ideas are composed and the theory behind them, mostly when we are talking about "musical" lessons. The most technical ones focus more on technique explanations.
If you also learn songs, you should also do the same, analyze the structures, progressions, scales, arrangement tools, etc, in order to then apply this concepts into your own compositions.
At the same time, there are two things that I consider very helpful to train your creativity:
- Use the lesson's backing track to improvise your own ideas using the suggested scales, and combine them with licks from the lessons, and with variations of these licks.
- Start composing your own ideas and songs. You don't need a lot of knowledge to start, you can do it now!
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 21 2015, 04:37 AM
Well, I think that you have the right equipment and software to get a good tone. Tone set is also something that requires practice, so my recommendation is to keep on exploring but also keep simple. Don't add lots of effects, processors, pedals, go simple, turn on an amp and a cabinet, and experiment with its settings. Most of the tones that you hear on albums and live are based on this basic combination, and many times guitarist only add a overdrive (tube screamer or similar).
About your question, that's a very important question!
Let me give you my point of view. There are many kinds of musicians, and as each of them is a person, each one has different tastes, different goals, different thoughts and many other things, because each of us is a unique person. So I cannot say that you will or won't be a better musician if you just practice songs by other persons. If your goal as a musician is to interpret music and not compose it, maybe the answer it yes.
Based on your question, I assume that one of your goals is to be able to write and perform your own music. In this case, learning to play songs by other people or lessons will give help you just with one dimension: performing. This is not a small thing, great composers like Beethoven, Mozart, and even guitarists like Steve Vai or singers like Fredy Mercury are/were incredible performers. However, if you also want to become a good composer, improviser, arranger or all of that, you have to analyze what you learn, the theory behind, pay attention to structures, tools to arrange songs, scales used, chord progressions, rhythms and all the things that can make you understand what you are playing. GMC lessons include description with comments about how the ideas are composed and the theory behind them, mostly when we are talking about "musical" lessons. The most technical ones focus more on technique explanations.
If you also learn songs, you should also do the same, analyze the structures, progressions, scales, arrangement tools, etc, in order to then apply this concepts into your own compositions.
At the same time, there are two things that I consider very helpful to train your creativity:
- Use the lesson's backing track to improvise your own ideas using the suggested scales, and combine them with licks from the lessons, and with variations of these licks.
- Start composing your own ideas and songs. You don't need a lot of knowledge to start, you can do it now!
Gab, excellent words of advice!! I was actually thinking the same thing about taking the lesson backing and changing it a bit to start tapping in to my creativity. The first time I might only change a couple of notes....the second time I will change more.....but my goal will be to change something...anything, a little bit every day....until the solo is something completely my own. EXCELLENT advice!! I also like the thought about not simply playing the lesson, but spending time to actually dissect it and understand the scale structure being used for the lesson. Another fantastic tip. This is exactly why you totally ROCK!!!
I'm going to work on Lian's love song and change a few things...I will re-record it and post it for you to check out. That will be my homework.
Thanks!!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 21 2015, 12:25 PM
I'm going to work on Lian's love song and change a few things...I will re-record it and post it for you to check out. That will be my homework.
Thanks!!!
Rob
That's exactly what I mean.
I'd really like to hear your variations and own versions so feel free to share it here too.
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 28 2015, 06:41 AM
Hey Gab, I'm practicing like crazy. Since I work at my full time job, I can usually come home and practice 3-4 hours a night. I think that's a pretty good amount of practice time each night. I'm currently working on Marcus Lavendell's 3 level lesson. I can tell you that even though it's only a level 4 lesson, it is way harder than the level 5 Lian Love Song lesson. I almost have it down. I should be able to record a video by Friday. So be on the lookout for it.
Since I started typing this post, I must have hit a button, now when I try and correct a word previously typed, it doesn't push the remaining text to the right, it replaces each letter and doesn't push the rest of the words to the right. Does that make sense? For example...I can't type this sentence and then cursor back to the word "example" and add a word after it or make a correction because it won't push the rest of the sentence to the right.
I'm heading over to Youtube to see if I can find your band....I'm anxious to watch you and your mates jammin'!
Thanks again!
Rob
By the way, I'm working on changing up the Lian Love Song Lesson a bit and adding some of my own parts....I'm still trying to figure out a tapping sequence to replace his tapping sequence with. So stay tuned for that as well.
Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 28 2015, 12:55 PM
Hi Robbie! Great to hear from you! Thanks for this update.
4 hours per day is a killer quantity of time for a practice routine, you'll see results very soon if you use this time wisely and focused. It would be good for your mind and composing skills to dedicate at least 1 of those 4 hours to a more creative task like jamming, composing, working on your own licks. I'll wait for your videos.
About the typing problem, I think that you have the function called "Insert" activated. Check out your keyboard and look for the "Insert" key and press it, it should be fixed after it.
My band? This is one of our songs:
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 28 2015, 05:34 PM
Gab, fantastic video of your band...I actually watched quite a few of your videos. That's cool that you're fronted by a girl. Her vocals are great....The sound of the band is super tight...Awesome man! That's what I'm striving to do, not professionally, but I definitely want to get to the point of writing and creating music...I'd love to put a band together some day.
I'm able to practice usually from the time I get home from work (6:00PM) until I go to bed at 10:00PM....My wife works in the evenings and both of my kids are grown up, so I'm usually home alone with nothing better to do than to practice. I usually spend the first 30 minutes or so warming up and working on speed. I then spend the next 30 minutes working on scales and patterns....Then I will run through the previous GMC lessons that I've completed, just to keep them polished....and then will finish out working on the current lesson. I will definitely start adding the improvisational time to the practice.
I can't wait to come up with a song and record it....Hopefully you can give me some direction on the recording side of things too. Thanks again for all of your help...It's amazing to have you providing guidance.
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 28 2015, 08:10 PM
By the way...Let me know your thoughts on my practice routine and what changes you might like to see. If you could write out an effective practice schedule, what would it look like?
Thanks!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 29 2015, 01:47 PM
Hi Robbie! Thanks for your words about my band. We've been working really hard for more than 10 years. We have 3 studio albums and we are now working on the 4th.
I think that your routine sounds good. It's only lacking some more creative sections. The addition of some improvisation tasks is an excellent idea. Please always remember to work on variations of the things that you practice "technically", mostly the musical GMC lessons. Take those licks, and create variations, change the beginning, the end, combine two, combine them with your own phrases, etc.
Besides this, it would be good to start talking about composing your own songs. This is something that you can start right now, you don't need advanced knowledge or technique to start making your own thing. First step:
- Share here 5 songs that you like a lot.
About recording guitar videos, this is a great video:
In order to compose your own songs, I recommend you to start using a multitrack software, this is one very used at GMC, and it has a free version: http://www.reaper.fm/
I personally use Cubase & Nuendo.
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 29 2015, 08:32 PM
I think that your routine sounds good. It's only lacking some more creative sections. The addition of some improvisation tasks is an excellent idea. Please always remember to work on variations of the things that you practice "technically", mostly the musical GMC lessons. Take those licks, and create variations, change the beginning, the end, combine two, combine them with your own phrases, etc.
Besides this, it would be good to start talking about composing your own songs. This is something that you can start right now, you don't need advanced knowledge or technique to start making your own thing. First step:
- Share here 5 songs that you like a lot.
About recording guitar videos, this is a great video:
In order to compose your own songs, I recommend you to start using a multitrack software, this is one very used at GMC, and it has a free version: http://www.reaper.fm/
I personally use Cubase & Nuendo.
Gab, I also use Cubase....I have 7.0 and 7.5.....I only know the basics of using it....But I can import a Superior Drum track in it and add guitar tracks...I also have Overloud TH2 for my guitar simulator. That's how I recorded the sample of the song I was working on and shared earlier on our thread.
As far as 5 songs I like a lot.......There are sooooo many to choose from....Here is a list of some songs that come to mind (not in any order)
1. Steel Panther "Pussy Whipped" or "Eye of the Panther"
2. Van Halen "Panama"
3. Dokken "In my Dreams"
4. Skid Row "I remember you"
5. Tesla "Modern Day Cowboy"
6. Theodore Ziraz/Hand of God "Start Again" or "Monster5"
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 30 2015, 03:08 PM
Ah! We already talked about Cubase, and that recording video! I get confused when you asked me about "recording":
"I can't wait to come up with a song and record it....Hopefully you can give me some direction on the recording side of things too"
What do you exactly mean about recording? If you mean mixing, mastering, and writing/editing midi and other recording tip, we will work on it while you create your songs.
Ok, thanks for the songs list. The first task is write down the structure of each of those songs. By structure I mean, find out the different parts that they contains and how they are organized. You can find Intro, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Bridge, Solo, Part C, Instrumental Section, Coda, and sometimes, when you analyze more progressive stuff or maybe orquestal music, you will notice that the sections are just parts that are usually described as "Part A, B, A'" and so... .
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 31 2015, 04:32 AM
"I can't wait to come up with a song and record it....Hopefully you can give me some direction on the recording side of things too"
What do you exactly mean about recording? If you mean mixing, mastering, and writing/editing midi and other recording tip, we will work on it while you create your songs.
Ok, thanks for the songs list. The first task is write down the structure of each of those songs. By structure I mean, find out the different parts that they contains and how they are organized. You can find Intro, Verse, Pre-chorus, Chorus, Bridge, Solo, Part C, Instrumental Section, Coda, and sometimes, when you analyze more progressive stuff or maybe orquestal music, you will notice that the sections are just parts that are usually described as "Part A, B, A'" and so... .
LOL....Yes, I guess I did confuse you. What I meant about meant about asking for your help on the "recording side" is the mixing, mastering etc....Like I said in a previous post, I am somewhat of a perfectionist....I want everything I do to be as close to perfect as possible.....So when I do write a song, I want it to not only sound professional from a musical standpoint, but also from a recording/audio standpoint as well. Hope that makes sense.
I'm actually working on your Anihillator lesson along with Marcus' solo......I need to start working and developing riffing ideas because I like the sound of it....That's why I worked your Zakk Wylde lesson too....Hopefully I will have your Anihillator lesson and Marcus' lesson down enough to record something by Sunday.
Thanks!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jan 31 2015, 04:37 PM
Ah! Now I see, yes, we will wok on mixing once you have the song advanced. At first the only thing to have in mind is to record your guitar signal clean, by line, to then be able to improve the guitar tone using amp simulators.
I'll wait for your news about the lessons and song analysis.
Posted by: RobbieJ Jan 31 2015, 04:38 PM
Gab, I was practicing the Annihilator lesson and am on section 7....I have a couple of questions....remember that my knowledge of theory is very small...so forgive me if my questions seem silly.
The song is based off of Em....in this section you add the C# and the A# ....The C# is the note that takes it from being Aeolian to Dorian right? And the A# is the blues note from the Em Pentatonic scale right? So here are my questions:
1) Just because you added the A# does that really mean you are playing in E Dorian? All other notes in the riff are based off of E Aeolian (except for the pentatonic blues not of C#).....Would it be OK to say, "song is in key of E Aeolian, but I pulled in a couple of notes in certain spots that are outside of the scale"?
2) When you created this riff, did you just come up with a riff that was slightly outside of the E Aeolian scale and then determine that you were pulling from Dorian and Blues Pentatonic? Or was it a conscious effort to come up with a riff adding the dorian and blues scales? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I mean...did you come up with the riff first and then noticed it was outside of the Aeolian mode or did you come up with the thought first that you wanted to add a Dorian and Pentatonic blues flare to it and then came up with the riff?
I hope these questions make sense. Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 1 2015, 07:08 AM
Here's another question for you....this time it's regarding harmonies....I have no experience with harmonies at all. I heard that harmonizing in the 3rd, the 5th, or octave sounds the best....I'm attaching a short clip of the beginning of "Weenie Ride" solo from Steel Panther....Can you teach me about harmonizing. I thought that this short recording would be a great starting point for me to learn...and then I can record the lead and the harmony for the entire solo.
Here are my questions.
1) So if I'm harmonizing in the 3rd, that means every note will be played a 3rd from it's original location right? Will the pattern of the melody or lick remain exactly the same? Or does the finger positions change? For example...If I played A-B-C.....Would the harmony in a 3rd would be C-D-E? If so, that stinks because you then have to really think about playing a harmony...because the first melody of A-B-C is whole step, half step relationship...but the harmony is whole, whole.
2) If you do harmonize in 3rds or 5ths...what is the easiest way to figure out the fingering for the melody/riff since there might be whole steps between notes where there were only half steps....or half steps between notes when the main plays whole steps. This is really confusing.
3) Would playing an octave higher or lower be the only time the fingering would be exactly the same for the harmony part as it is for the main melody? That would be the easiest obviously, because you wouldn't have to worry about whether things change from whole step or half steps, but you would play exactly the same melody/riff an octave higher or lower.
That's enough of my questions for now....thanks!
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 1 2015, 03:56 PM
Gab, I watched a video on Youtube about harmonies and learned that a harmony in a minor 3rd is played two frets lower and one string higher than the original note (or two frets higher and one string lower.....except for the relationship between G and B strings which is only 1 fret difference)....With this, the minor 3rd harmony will play the same exact riff/melody fingering but 2 frets /higher (or higher depending on if you go to the next higher string or next lower string), or one fret lower/higher based on the G-B strings....Is this right?
I tried this and recorded the same Weenie Ride part ...here it is...Let me know your thoughts. By the way..there are timing issues, but I wasn't concerned about the timing as much as just trying to figure out the harmony part.
Thanks,
Rob
OK...sorry for so many questions...but I started looking at the 2 fret down theory and determined that if you do that, you actually play notes outside of the key that you are in...For example...If I go through the A minor scale, starting on the 5th fret of the E string, I would play the C on the A string....then B on 6th string is D on 5th string (so far so good)...but then I come to C on the 6th string and I would play D# on 5th string...the D# is obviously outside of the key of A minor. So how does this work?
I also started messing around with that same two fret pattern and determined that if I go up two frets and one string higher it will play the 5th...So here is same Weenie Ride clip playing harmonies in 5th....At least I think so...Please let me know if I'm on the right track....Let me know if what I am thinking and doing is correct. Thanks man!!
Rob
Weenie_Ride_Beginning_With_Harmony.mp3 ( 202.38K )
: 65
Weenie_Ride_Beginning_With_Harmony_in_5th.mp3 ( 202.38K )
: 59Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 1 2015, 10:52 PM
The song is based off of Em....in this section you add the C# and the A# ....The C# is the note that takes it from being Aeolian to Dorian right? And the A# is the blues note from the Em Pentatonic scale right? So here are my questions:
1) Just because you added the A# does that really mean you are playing in E Dorian? All other notes in the riff are based off of E Aeolian (except for the pentatonic blues not of C#).....Would it be OK to say, "song is in key of E Aeolian, but I pulled in a couple of notes in certain spots that are outside of the scale"?
2) When you created this riff, did you just come up with a riff that was slightly outside of the E Aeolian scale and then determine that you were pulling from Dorian and Blues Pentatonic? Or was it a conscious effort to come up with a riff adding the dorian and blues scales? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I mean...did you come up with the riff first and then noticed it was outside of the Aeolian mode or did you come up with the thought first that you wanted to add a Dorian and Pentatonic blues flare to it and then came up with the riff?
I hope these questions make sense. Thanks,
Rob
Hi Rob! This are very interesting questions!
1) Just because you added the A# does that really mean you are playing in E Dorian? All other notes in the riff are based off of E Aeolian (except for the pentatonic blues not of C#).....Would it be OK to say, "song is in key of E Aeolian, but I pulled in a couple of notes in certain spots that are outside of the scale"?
The fact that I'm using the note C# and not the note C explains that I'm using Dorian instead of Aeolian. Why? Because that's the difference between both modes:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator
The addition of the blue note is a trick very used when we use Dorian mode and it's commonly explained as a Dorian variation. you can learn more about it here: http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=42832&view=findpost&p=702115
2) When you created this riff, did you just come up with a riff that was slightly outside of the E Aeolian scale and then determine that you were pulling from Dorian and Blues Pentatonic? Or was it a conscious effort to come up with a riff adding the dorian and blues scales? Which came first the chicken or the egg? I mean...did you come up with the riff first and then noticed it was outside of the Aeolian mode or did you come up with the thought first that you wanted to add a Dorian and Pentatonic blues flare to it and then came up with the riff?
This is another interesting question. I think that I use both possibilities when I'm composing. Sometimes, when I'm looking for an specific vibe, I define the scale that can generate it and start to jam with it until I get something cool. The advantage of this method is that your compositions, phrases and riffs have the feeling that your are looking for. The disadvantage is that your creation can be more predictable and less original.
Other times, I just look for the notes that sound cool, without thinking too much on scales. I think that this is what I did this time, since Dorian is not a common mode for Thrash Metal. So in this case, I just have seen the 12 notes as notes and let my ear decide, then I searched for a theoretic explanation. The advantage is that you can get some really fresh ideas that can surprise you. The disadvantage is that the feeling that you get can be different to what you wanted... but maybe this is not a disadvantage!
There is no one method better than the other, it's good to change from time to time to keep creative.
I tried this and recorded the same Weenie Ride part ...here it is...Let me know your thoughts. By the way..there are timing issues, but I wasn't concerned about the timing as much as just trying to figure out the harmony part.
Thanks,
Rob
OK...sorry for so many questions...but I started looking at the 2 fret down theory and determined that if you do that, you actually play notes outside of the key that you are in...For example...If I go through the A minor scale, starting on the 5th fret of the E string, I would play the C on the A string....then B on 6th string is D on 5th string (so far so good)...but then I come to C on the 6th string and I would play D# on 5th string...the D# is obviously outside of the key of A minor. So how does this work?
I also started messing around with that same two fret pattern and determined that if I go up two frets and one string higher it will play the 5th...So here is same Weenie Ride clip playing harmonies in 5th....At least I think so...Please let me know if I'm on the right track....Let me know if what I am thinking and doing is correct. Thanks man!!
Rob
Hi Rob! It's great to see you exploring this harmonization concepts. There is a basic rule that you are missing on this and it's that we usually harmonize in "DIATONIC" thirds, or "DIATONIC" fifths, and you could even use sixths. What does it mean? It means that you have to alternate between major and minor thirds (perfect, diminished and augmented when you are using 5ths) depending on the scale that you are using. This is the only way to harmonize a melody and to make it sound in key. In other words, in your last example, you should play E instead of D#. Does it make sense?
So, in order to make sure that you understand this concept, please tab a simple melody using Guitar Pro, just 1 measure using 8th notes in A minor and also tab its harmonization in diatonic thirds using a second track.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 3 2015, 08:10 PM
Gab, thanks for the clarification with the harmonies. I think I understand now...I can use the 2 frets lower/higher method but might need to go a half step or a whole step on certain notes in order to stay in the key.....correct? So the basic fingering pattern of the riff will be similar, but might not be exact since we are harmonizing in diatonic intervals....right? I will come up with a simple melody in a GP file using Tux Guitar and add a 2nd guitar with harmonies. I've ever created something in Tux Guitar before.....I'm guessing I just type the fret number on the string and it will put in the note....right? Is there a way to play something and have it transcribe what you're playing?
Thanks again!!
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 4 2015, 05:43 AM
Ok...here is a quick little melody in A minor with a harmony in diatonic 3rds. I think I've got it...the pattern for the melody in the harmony is similar...but not exact because of the diatonic notes....I think I get it now. Let me know your thoughts.
Rob
I just recorded both guitar parts....It's nothing fancy, I just wanted to hear what it sounds like with real guitars.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 4 2015, 02:52 PM
Wou!! Iron Maiden style!!! Hehehehe that's perfect! It's exactly what you have to do if you want to harmonize in diatonic thirds. The harmonization in thirds can be downwards or upwards, and the results will be different. Sometimes you'll prefer one, while other times you'll prefer the other one. As I said earlier, you can also use other type or harmonization like fifths, sixths or sevenths. Seconds and fourths are less common but can be used a bit when applying the trick explained above. The results can be weird in some cases but maybe that's what you need for some pieces.
Marty Friedman is a lover of weird harmonization so you could check his music and Cacophony to see the different effects that he gets.
- A good trick to get less predictable harmonization is combining thirds, fifths and sixths (and maybe seconds and fourths). There are not big rules about this, just try and let your ear decide.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 12 2015, 05:29 PM
Hey Gab....I'm still working on a couple of the lessons (your Annihilator....Marus' 3 level Pentatonic) as well as incorporating more improvisation in my practice schedule. That brings me to my question...How do you go about recording the backing tracks that you use with your lessons? The sound absolutely incredible. Do you use something like Band in a Box? What drum program do you use? All of your backings sound awesome!
Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 13 2015, 01:55 PM
Hi Rob, great to know that you are working!
I use Cubase to record audio and midi, as well as to mix and do the mastering to everything. Cubase is just a multitrack in which you record each instrument. For the sound, I use Steve Slate Drums as a VST virtual drum, Trillian for the bass sound and I also have Massive (for electronic/industrial sound) and Miroslav Philharmonik for orquestal sounds. My guitar patch is always shared in the lesson so you can download it and use it, as well as the amp plug-ins.
If you don't have Cubase, you can try Reaper which has a free version to start experimenting. There are many options for Bass and Drum sounds so you can check youtube and listen samples to decide the one that you like more.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 13 2015, 05:02 PM
I use Cubase to record audio and midi, as well as to mix and do the mastering to everything. Cubase is just a multitrack in which you record each instrument. For the sound, I use Steve Slate Drums as a VST virtual drum, Trillian for the bass sound and I also have Massive (for electronic/industrial sound) and Miroslav Philharmonik for orquestal sounds. My guitar patch is always shared in the lesson so you can download it and use it, as well as the amp plug-ins.
If you don't have Cubase, you can try Reaper which has a free version to start experimenting. There are many options for Bass and Drum sounds so you can check youtube and listen samples to decide the one that you like more.
Gab, thanks for sharing...I do have Cubase 7....I also have Superior Drummer....and I use TH2 for my amp. So you actually write and record your backing...wow...That must take a lot of time. This kind of ties in to how I want to write and record my own stuff. Not only is it important to write good songs, but it's equally as important to record them properly and with the best sound possible. This is definitely an area that I want to explore...any help you can provide would be AWESOME.
Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 14 2015, 07:51 AM
On a different topic...I was looking at Daniel Robinson's "George Lynch" lesson and I'm only on the 2nd section of the lesson
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-guitar/george-lynch-style-lesson/
and I have a question hopefully you can help me out with.....He states that he's playing in E Phrygian but he starts out the hammer-on/pull offs at the beginning by playing the D#...this note is not in E Phrygian...So why does it work? Why can the D# be added? The D# would be added to the E Harmonic Minor scale correct? But not the phyrgian...Help me understand. I haven't gotten past the first two sections yet, so I'm not sure about the rest of the song...but so far, it seems like he's playing in E Harmonic Minor and not E Phyrgian. Let me know.
Thanks,
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 14 2015, 02:37 PM
Thanks,
Rob
Great! Well, a good way to start is recording a song cover. This makes you forget a bit about the creativity side but it makes you explore all the technical possibilities of your software. I think that if you are able to emulate a song that you listen, you will be able to transpose from your mind to your daw the songs that you create. When I was around 21, I worked for two years creating backing tracks for singers. This has been a great training for my ear but also for my writing midi, mixing and recording skills. So, a good way to start could be with something like that. What about choosing a simple song and start writing it? I can guide you during the process. At first please share some song choices and I'll decide the best one for this...
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-guitar/george-lynch-style-lesson/
and I have a question hopefully you can help me out with.....He states that he's playing in E Phrygian but he starts out the hammer-on/pull offs at the beginning by playing the D#...this note is not in E Phrygian...So why does it work? Why can the D# be added? The D# would be added to the E Harmonic Minor scale correct? But not the phyrgian...Help me understand. I haven't gotten past the first two sections yet, so I'm not sure about the rest of the song...but so far, it seems like he's playing in E Harmonic Minor and not E Phyrgian. Let me know.
Thanks,
Rob
yes,you're right, he sometimes switches to "harmonic minor" because the note D# is played by the rhythm guitar. Just check out the chords played on part 1 and you'll note that the chord played on measure 2 includes the notes A and D#. In order to make your phrasing sound good you'll have to avoid playing the minor 7th and play it major (D#), at least at that moment. On measure 4, the chord played includes D so there the process is inverse, you have to switch to the minor 7th.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 14 2015, 04:23 PM
Gab, thanks for the idea about recording a cover and trying to get it to sound as much like the original as possible. I think that's a terrific idea. I don't know many songs at all, but I'm sure I can learn something fairly quickly....How about "Talk Dirty To Me" from Poison? Seems really easy.....If that isn't what you have in mind, feel free to choose any song from Skid Row, Ratt, White Snake, Dokken, Bon Jovi, etc.
I guess the biggest issue I have is the drums...I don't even know where to begin. I do use Superior Drummer. Do I choose a drum pattern from Superior that is close to the original pattern and then change things? Or do you write your own patterns from scratch? This is the biggest question for me at this moment.
Thanks for the explanation about the harmonic minor vs. Phrygian explanation...I didn't even look at the chords in the first couple of bars.....I went straight in to the hammer-on/pull off section and was extremely confused.
Here's another theory type question...I was playing around in the key of A minor and started thinking about the 3 minor chords in that key....A minor...D minor and E minor....I know I can play the A minor pentatonic...but I just noticed that I can play all 5 pentatonic boxes of each minor chord within that key and still be within the key signature...is that correct? So the way I'm looking at this....If I'm playing in the key of A minor, I can play all 5 boxes of A minor pentatonic, all 5 boxes of D minor pentatonic, all 5 boxes of E minor pentatonic, as well as all of the different modes for the key signature right? As long as I keep coming back to "home" or the root, I will keep the same A minor feel....right?
Thanks again for all of your help!!!
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 14 2015, 05:04 PM
One more thing about the recording backings and songs....Should I buy a midi keyboard controller? I want to make sure that I have everything I need to get the best results....If a midi controller will make things better, then I'll buy it...Just let me know.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 15 2015, 07:57 AM
Gab, here is a quick video posting of Daniel Robinson's "In the style of George Lynch" lesson. I'm a big fan of Lynch (much like many guitarists are)...maybe that's why I was able to grasp the lesson rather quickly...I just started looking at it last night. The video isn't perfect since I didn't spend a ton of time on the lesson.....but at least I'm posting something for you to review. I think the video and the actual audio/mix recording is pretty good. Any tips on the playing, video recording and audio recording would be awesome!!!
Thanks again for all of your help and guidance!!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 15 2015, 01:56 PM
I guess the biggest issue I have is the drums...I don't even know where to begin. I do use Superior Drummer. Do I choose a drum pattern from Superior that is close to the original pattern and then change things? Or do you write your own patterns from scratch? This is the biggest question for me at this moment.
Thanks for the explanation about the harmonic minor vs. Phrygian explanation...I didn't even look at the chords in the first couple of bars.....I went straight in to the hammer-on/pull off section and was extremely confused.
Here's another theory type question...I was playing around in the key of A minor and started thinking about the 3 minor chords in that key....A minor...D minor and E minor....I know I can play the A minor pentatonic...but I just noticed that I can play all 5 pentatonic boxes of each minor chord within that key and still be within the key signature...is that correct? So the way I'm looking at this....If I'm playing in the key of A minor, I can play all 5 boxes of A minor pentatonic, all 5 boxes of D minor pentatonic, all 5 boxes of E minor pentatonic, as well as all of the different modes for the key signature right? As long as I keep coming back to "home" or the root, I will keep the same A minor feel....right?
Thanks again for all of your help!!!
Hi mate, I think that the Poison song is a good choice. How to start with the drums? I think that using a loop close to the original an edit it can be a good idea at first to makes the things smoother. Nowadays I'm very fast writing midi but there are 3 ways to create a drum track:
1- As you said, starting with a groove from the midi library.
2- Writing it from nothing using the piano roll or key editor.
3- Using a midi controller and playing it with your fingers.
Each one has its advantages but the main thing here is to find the one that makes you do the things faster. So experiment with it. Let's start with the drums, and please share here when you have them, ok?
It's a great tool for recording midi. I have one and use it mostly when I'm recording extra instruments like synth, keys, strings or other stuff. But it's also comfortable for playing the bass and drums instead of writing it. You won't regret having one, but you can do everything without it.
Thanks again for all of your help!!!
yes, you are right, you can play all those pentatonics in they key of A minor. Each one has notes from the main scale so you won't have problems. It's a good trick to play more unexpected phases and intervals but you must take care of the resolution notes.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 16 2015, 06:10 AM
Gab, here is my 2nd take of the "in the Style of George Lynch lesson". Let me know your thoughts....Heading to Sweetwater.com to buy a midi keyboard controller...>Looking forward to your guidance with recording.
Thanks again...
Rob
http://youtu.be/7K3PBIl9PkY
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 17 2015, 09:19 PM
Hi Rob, you are doing a good job with this one that is slowly being polished. There are some licks like the one with tapping and also those that are faster on the higher frets that could sound tighter. Those ones need to be isolated and worked as a loop to make them sound clear and tight.
Other than that I notice that sometimes your bending is not enough consistent and it also happens a little with vibrato, mostly if we compare it with the original lesson. You can just check the second 00:11, when you add vibrato to the chords, the "vibration" is not regular as it should be. Check that same moment on the original lesson and you will notice what I mean. The same difference can be found in many parts so it would be interesting that you personally do this analysis with your guitar in hand and trying to emulate Daniel's vibrato.
As I said previously, this take is really good, but I think that you could get much more of this one working on the details that I commented previously, so that should be the next step.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 17 2015, 11:21 PM
Other than that I notice that sometimes your bending is not enough consistent and it also happens a little with vibrato, mostly if we compare it with the original lesson. You can just check the second 00:11, when you add vibrato to the chords, the "vibration" is not regular as it should be. Check that same moment on the original lesson and you will notice what I mean. The same difference can be found in many parts so it would be interesting that you personally do this analysis with your guitar in hand and trying to emulate Daniel's vibrato.
As I said previously, this take is really good, but I think that you could get much more of this one working on the details that I commented previously, so that should be the next step.
Thanks for the feedback...I will definitely work on consistent bends and vibrato and try to polish up some of the other licks (like the tapping one, etc). I really do appreciate your critique and feedback. I guess I'm a little confused about the expectations of these lessons. It seems like the GMC instructors want us students to play the lesson exactly the same as the instructor. Isn't playing the guitar about self expression? I mean, Daniel's vibrato isn't the same as yours....which isn't the same as Ben's...which isn't the same as Maurice's......Each of you play with different feeling and emotion and phrase things differently based on your own style. To be perfectly honest, I don't really like Daniel's vibrato....I want to develop a really wide, aggressive/strong vibrato like a George Lynch or Satchel (from Steel Panther), so trying to play this lesson by copying his vibrato doesn't seem like it would make much sense to me.
I guess I'm confused as to why the student recordings of lessons are judged on how closely we can "copy" the instructor and not judged on how well we actually perform the basic riff with our own emotion and style sprinkled on top. I hope that makes sense....If the goal is for us to copy the lesson as closely as possible without putting our own twist on things, then that's what I will do....But I think that the ultimate goal should be for each of us to develop as our own person....not copies of others.
I hope this doesn't sound like I'm complaining about it...because I'm not.....I'm just really confused as to what the expectations are and what I need to do in order to become a great musician......I completely trust you and your guidance...so if you tell me that standing on my head while playing scales will make be a better guitarist, then I'd stand on my head......so if you want me to copy his lesson exactly, then that's what I will do.
Thanks again for all of your help....like I said in my PM, if you're ever just sitting around your computer and want to chat about anything (guitar, music, life, etc...LOL) feel free to call me on Skype...I do speak fluent Spanish.
Thanks again!!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 18 2015, 02:49 PM
Hi Rob! You are talking about a very important point here. You're completely right, the main goal here is to develop your own personality as a guitarist, not becoming a copy of anybody else. However, there is a stage in our playing in which we need o be able to master the different techniques. All the great guitarists that we love like Jimi Hendrix, Joe Satriani, SRV, Jimmy Page, and the list can continue forever, started playing the guitar emulating their heroes playing. They developed their early style mixing a bit from each of their heroes techniques, but they didn't stop there, they continued experimenting, jamming, and creating they own music to develop their personality.
This explains that learning GMC lessons and being able to play them with a strong technique is only one part of the work that we should do to become a better player. And it is a good excuse to share with you how is my approach to learning GMC lessons. (I always talk about this at Vchat sessions).
How to get the most from a GMC lesson:
1. Check the scales suggested by the instructor and try them over the backing track. Play them up and down, try to create phrases. Analyze the backing track's chord progression.
2. Learn part 1 from the lesson, and practice it until you can play it as the instructor.
3. Practice the lick over the backing track.
4. Continue repeating the lick but creating variations of it. Changing the first notes, the last notes, changing the rhythm, repeating one part more times, keep the same rhythm but change all notes, keep the same notes but change the rhythm.
5. Combine the lick, and your variations with other phrases of you own.
6. Do the same thing with the other parts.
This is how you can get the most of GMC lessons. At first I consider very helpful to emulate the instructors playing, even when we don't have a strong technique. Then, the other things are to connect those ideas with our own personality and style and make them of our own. This same process can be applied to our first steps on composition.
In the case of the current lesson. I asked you to compare your vibrato with the original lesson because your vibrato is irregular, and not consistent while the one used on the original lesson is. You have two roads, you can try to work on regular vibrato without paying using the original lesson as a guidance and focusing on:
- making your vibrato go with the groove of the backing.
- making it start and end gradually to make it sound as a natural part of the note.
or, you can use the lesson as a help to be sure that you are doing the technique right, to them continue experimenting and developing it by yourself.
I think that your question is VERY important and it's great that you asked yourself this, and I hope that I could clarify a bit it.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 18 2015, 05:24 PM
This explains that learning GMC lessons and being able to play them with a strong technique is only one part of the work that we should do to become a better player. And it is a good excuse to share with you how is my approach to learning GMC lessons. (I always talk about this at Vchat sessions).
How to get the most from a GMC lesson:
1. Check the scales suggested by the instructor and try them over the backing track. Play them up and down, try to create phrases. Analyze the backing track's chord progression.
2. Learn part 1 from the lesson, and practice it until you can play it as the instructor.
3. Practice the lick over the backing track.
4. Continue repeating the lick but creating variations of it. Changing the first notes, the last notes, changing the rhythm, repeating one part more times, keep the same rhythm but change all notes, keep the same notes but change the rhythm.
5. Combine the lick, and your variations with other phrases of you own.
6. Do the same thing with the other parts.
This is how you can get the most of GMC lessons. At first I consider very helpful to emulate the instructors playing, even when we don't have a strong technique. Then, the other things are to connect those ideas with our own personality and style and make them of our own. This same process can be applied to our first steps on composition.
In the case of the current lesson. I asked you to compare your vibrato with the original lesson because your vibrato is irregular, and not consistent while the one used on the original lesson is. You have two roads, you can try to work on regular vibrato without paying using the original lesson as a guidance and focusing on:
- making your vibrato go with the groove of the backing.
- making it start and end gradually to make it sound as a natural part of the note.
or, you can use the lesson as a help to be sure that you are doing the technique right, to them continue experimenting and developing it by yourself.
I think that your question is VERY important and it's great that you asked yourself this, and I hope that I could clarify a bit it.
Gab, thanks for the response. I think I understand what you are saying.....We, as students should try and copy the lessons as closely as possible even if we don't like the technique in order to establish a strong foundation in which we can begin building our own style upon...correct?
I also like your suggestions about taking each step and creating a variation.....We talked about this before, but not specifically about taking the part one and making your suggested changes...and then part two....and so on. I like the idea of taking a part and trying to change a note or two....or changing up the rhythm, etc. Great suggestions.
Thanks again for all of your help and guidance.
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 19 2015, 01:40 PM
Great Robbie! I'd really like to see some videos or hear some audios of you doing that experiment. Is it possible?
I also hope that you enjoyed yesterday's Video Chat session.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 21 2015, 04:47 AM
Gab, the video chat lesson was great...Unfortunately I am at work when that takes place, so I can't truly pay 100% attention (the boss will get mad). But it was awesome.
I started playing around with Cubase and recording. I recorded a little bit of "Talk Dirty to Me". The drums aren't perfect, but I'm not a drummer and don't really understand the drum parts all that well....I did my best so far. Keep in mind that I'm VERY new to Cubase and recording...so any instruction you give please make it as if you are giving instructions to a child..and pictures help...LOL.
Let me know what I need to do in order to get this sounding like the original. My goal is to work with you on this and get my version sounding better than the original.
I didn't spend much time recording the guitars...so they aren't super tight at all...I'm more concerned with the recording process and overall sound quality more than having tight guitar parts at this point.
The 2nd question I have is about a bass guitar. I don't have a bass, and didn't add a midi bass to the track yet. I did get my novation midi keyboard controller, so please tell me what I need to do to get a good bass guitar sound in Cubase...Remember I am completely new to this.......so explain like you are talking with someone who has opened Cubase for the first time.
Would it help if I sent you the Cubase project file so you can see what I'm doing?
Thanks again for your help!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 21 2015, 09:26 PM
Hi Robbie! This is sounding really good! Your drum track sounds close to the original and I think that the next step is to record a bass to be able to hear the whole arrangement together. Then you can improve dynamics and mix to make this sound even better. But the main goal was to train your writing midi skills and honestly I'm impressed! The more songs you record, the faster you will be recording your own songs.
For bass sounds I use and recommend Trillian, check it out:
In order to make your drums sound more "human" I recommend you to check and apply the concepts of this video:
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 22 2015, 02:34 AM
Gab, thanks for the tips....Is there a free bass with Cubase that will work for now? The Trilian software is $275....my wife will kill me if I buy that right after I just bought the midi keyboard controller....LOL!!
Let me know if there are any free Bass plug ins out there that you know of or if something in Cubase will work now..and if so, how to use it.
Thanks!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 22 2015, 04:00 PM
My version of Cubase included Halion which has many virtual instruments. If you have it, try its bass. If not, there are many free vsti for basses and other instruments.
Here you will find some of them: http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?plug-ins=Guitar/Bass
I recommend you to do some searches with google to find some cool free stuff that will be good to have installed:
- Virtual instruments VSTi: It's always good to have different options: Piano, strings, brasses and other instruments.
- Mixing VST: It will be good to have some EQs, Compressors, FXs for this purpose.
- Mastering tools: We will use this to make your mixes sound balanced and loud.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 23 2015, 12:14 AM
I'll look around for a free VST bass. I've played with the track a bit more and did some work on the drums...I've changed some of the drum beats in certain placed, played with the velocity and added a bit of reverb........I think I'm getting the hang of where certain drum parts fit and how to modify them....Take a listen....The biggest issue that I"m faced with now is by trying to adjust the velocity of the hits, I have a rather noticeable sounding difference in certain parts....Can you explain an easy way to fix it instead of going to each measure and adjusting the velocity of every single snare hit.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 23 2015, 12:42 PM
Hi Robbie, this one is starting to sound really cool! There is a way to fix velocity of many notes and it's with the function "fixed velocity". You can select with the range select all the snares in the piano roll and then click on the function. It will make all snares sound with the same velocity. Then you will have to do the "humanizing" ideas shared on the previous video to avoid making it sound like a machine.
As you are now experimenting with the drum sounds, there is a way to activate all drum's output. Currently you should have the drums being played through an stereo audio output. This function will make that each part of the drum will be played in a different audio track on the project and it will allow you to equalize, process and add fx to the different channels of the drums (kick, snare, hh, etc). Try it and let me know if it works.
Why would you want to do this? Kick needs a different compression and eq than the snare, and the same for room, hi hats and toms. Kick sound better without reverb, while snare sounds great with it. These are just 2 of all the other reasons why you'd want to have multitrack drums.
Posted by: RobbieJ Feb 23 2015, 05:23 PM
Gab, thanks for the explanation. I will try these couple of ideas out this evening when I get home from work. I think the song is starting to take shape...I can't wait to learn how to make it more "studio" sounding in the near future. Thanks again!!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Feb 24 2015, 02:16 PM
Ok! Let me know how it works!
Posted by: RobbieJ Mar 1 2015, 01:23 AM
Hey Gab, I just ordered a midi guitar that Todd said would work great for laying down the bass. When I get it next week I will continue working on the Talk Dirty to Me track.
Do you use a midi guitar at all? I'm curious how this will work. Todd says it's a great tool to use....especially for someone who isn't great with a keyboard.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 1 2015, 04:51 PM
Wou! Congrats! I don't use a midi guitar but I think that it can be a GREAT tool for composing and recording. You will find easier to record bass, guitar, and maybe some other instruments like piano, synth and strings. I think that drums can be tricky but who knows, you can try it.
I have a midi keyboard and it's great, but if you ask me I would also get and try a midi guitar to see what happens. The good thing of recording guitar also with midi is that you can manipulate it much more, change tempo, change notes easily, transpose it and many other great things that can open your composing skills to a new dimension.
So, congrats again, and let me know how it works and feels.
Posted by: RobbieJ Mar 7 2015, 02:06 AM
Gab, I just got the Midi Guitar today and recorded a bass part for Talk Dirty. Check it out and let me know what you think. Let me know how what we need to start tweaking.....how are the volumes? What do I need to do in order to start making this sound more "studio" quality?
Thanks!
Rob
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 7 2015, 04:18 PM
Great job mate!
It's time to polish the mix! The first thing that I do when I mix is starting with the drums. Have you tried the "multitrack" option for drums?
Posted by: RobbieJ Mar 7 2015, 05:27 PM
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/uploads/monthly_02_2015/post-1289-1424691609.jpg
Hey Gab...I don't have the drums routed to mulit output yet...I don't know how to bring up that little VST box. Can you tell me what I need to click on to bring it up.....
I've highlighted the drum track and then clicked F11, and it brings up the box, but it has the virtual bass in it...Not sure what I'm doing wrong.
I'm attaching a screen shot...
By the way....Todd Simpson is going to start helping me learn Reaper. I want to continue our journey with the guitar and learning Cubase...but I also want to learn Reaper. Todd says that most everyone at GMC uses Reaper....If I learn Reaper, I can then share files with others without issues. What I learn from Reaper I can apply with Cubase, and what I learn from Cubase I can apply in Reaper. Hope that makes sense.
Rob
Gab, by the way, is there a button to push to remove and bring back the player bar that I have put an arrow by in the picture? It went away one time and I spent an hour trying to click on everything to get it to come back. I hit a button (not sure what I hit) and now it's back, but I want to learn how to get it back if it ever goes away. Please let me know.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 8 2015, 04:54 PM
Hi Robbie! That's called "Transport panel" and it can be activated clicking F2:
If it still doesn't appear, it may be hidden somewhere like this:
About how to set VSTi as multitrack, you have to click here:
Please try these things and let me know if we are ready for the next step!
PS: Learning Reaper sounds good! but I don't think that you need to master both, you can choose your favorite and use it always since the only difference are shortcuts, and details on how to use some functions. The results should be similar.
Posted by: RobbieJ Mar 9 2015, 07:13 PM
Gab, how do I get that little VST box up to click "there"? When my box comes up it has the virtual bass VB-1 in it...Please take a look at the picture that I attached earlier to see how my VST box says VB-1. Does this make sense?
Also, I have loaded a plug in in Superior Drummer that routes everything to a mixer and has certain effects on certain drum pieces. Isn't this that same thing that we are trying to accomplish in Cubase. I will attache a photo tonight when I get home from work.
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Mar 10 2015, 03:46 PM
Hi Robbie. If you have your Superior Drummer opened and working on the project, it should appear just below the virtual bass, doesn't is? 
About your question. We are trying to do something similar. You are already using Superior drummer internal mixer that allows you to process and add effects to the different parts of the drums. This is a great tool but as I don't use this software, I can't judge how good EQs, compressors and effects are. However this functions are usually used for quick mixes and tweaks. If you want to do a professional mix, you'll want to have the multitracking on different Cubase's tracks to be able to use Cubase's EQs, compressors, fxs as well as all the other plug ins that you want (waves, tcelectronic, izotope, etc). Does it make sense?
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