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Chords For Scales
Andrew Cockburn
May 29 2008, 12:46 AM
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QUOTE (Pi38 @ May 28 2008, 11:13 AM) *
I'm very confused, but I'm sure that I'll catch on after reading it a few more times.


Be my guest - then make sure you ask about anything you are comfused about smile.gif

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kjutte
Aug 26 2008, 04:34 PM
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Diminished : 1,b3,dim5
Augmented : 1,3,aug5

Shouldn't this be half aug and half dim, due to the fact that it has a maj 3 for aug, and min3 for dim? smile.gif

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Andrew Cockburn
Aug 27 2008, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Aug 26 2008, 11:34 AM) *
Diminished : 1,b3,dim5
Augmented : 1,3,aug5

Shouldn't this be half aug and half dim, due to the fact that it has a maj 3 for aug, and min3 for dim? smile.gif


Sorry, not sure what you mean - that's 2 different chord types you pulled out there, one is Diminished the other is augmented ...

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kjutte
Aug 30 2008, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 27 2008, 01:53 AM) *
Sorry, not sure what you mean - that's 2 different chord types you pulled out there, one is Diminished the other is augmented ...


I ment that a fully diminished chord would be R dim3 dim5, and a fully augmented be R aug3 aug5, no?

Beacuse I know that R b3 dim5 = half diminished.

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Tolek
Aug 30 2008, 09:42 AM
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No, kjutte. The fully augmented chord is like this: root Maj3 Aug5. What you said (R aug3 aug5) would sound like an inversion of the minor chord from the 3rd aug. Example: C | E aug | G aug = C | F | Ab = F | Ab | C. You see?
The same for the diminished ones. Chords are fully diminished when their 5th is dimished. Not the third which has to be minor in a diminished chord.

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Emir Hot
Aug 30 2008, 09:52 AM
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Root, b3, b5 = diminished (dim)
Root, b3, b5, bb7 = diminished 7 (dim7)
Root, b3, b5, b7 = half diminished or half diminished 7 (m7-5 or m7b5 - locrian)

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kjutte
Aug 30 2008, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 30 2008, 10:52 AM) *
Root, b3, b5 = diminished (dim)
Root, b3, b5, bb7 = diminished 7 (dim7)
Root, b3, b5, b7 = half diminished or half diminished 7 (m7-5 or m7b5 - locrian)


yes, but whwat about the augmented ones?

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Emir Hot
Aug 30 2008, 01:38 PM
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Augmented chords:

1, b3, #5 (m+5)
1, b3, #5, b7 (min7+5 or min7#5)
1, b3, #5, 7 (min/maj7+5)
1, 3, #5 (+5 or just aug)
1, 3, #5, 7 (maj7+5)
1, 3, #5, b7 (7+5)

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Andrew Cockburn
Aug 30 2008, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Aug 30 2008, 08:28 AM) *
yes, but whwat about the augmented ones?


Actually he's right - a basic augmented triad is always R, maj3, Aug5

If you play with the 3rd you will end up with something different. It will still be a triad of some sort but we only have names for 5 different basic types - Major, Minor, Diminished, Augmented, and Suspended (SUS2 & SUS4)

With diminished, there is only one type of basic diminished chord - R, min3, dim5. With diominished, you can add notes to get different flavours that are named as Emir said, but are always based on that triad. It is the 3 notes of the triad that determine the basic chord type.

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kjutte
Aug 30 2008, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 30 2008, 03:36 PM) *
Actually he's right - a basic augmented triad is always R, maj3, Aug5

If you play with the 3rd you will end up with something different. It will still be a triad of some sort but we only have names for 5 different basic types - Major, Minor, Diminished, Augmented, and Suspended (SUS2 & SUS4)

With diminished, there is only one type of basic diminished chord - R, min3, dim5. With diominished, you can add notes to get different flavours that are named as Emir said, but are always based on that triad. It is the 3 notes of the triad that determine the basic chord type.


Ok. I was really confused about the dim / half dim thing.
I thought:

Half dim: R b3 dim5
Dim: R dim3 dim5

But we cleared that up. biggrin.gif

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Emir Hot
Aug 30 2008, 03:31 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Aug 30 2008, 02:50 PM) *
Ok. I was really confused about the dim / half dim thing.
I thought:

Half dim: R b3 dim5
Dim: R dim3 dim5

But we cleared that up. biggrin.gif


smile.gif what's the difference between b3 and dim3?

When you're writting a chord formula the rule is to use accidentals like "b or #", never write "dim" in the chord formula. You can use "dim" to name the whole chord.

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kjutte
Aug 30 2008, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 30 2008, 04:31 PM) *
smile.gif what's the difference between b3 and dim3?

When you're writting a chord formula the rule is to use accidentals like "b or #", never write "dim" in the chord formula. You can use "dim" to name the whole chord.


B3=minor
BB3=dim3=diminished

I got that from Andrew's chord rules.

1 2 3 6 7 = dim ->min->maj->aug

5 6 = dim->perfect->aug

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Emir Hot
Aug 30 2008, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Aug 30 2008, 04:12 PM) *
B3=minor
BB3=dim3=diminished

I got that from Andrew's chord rules.

1 2 3 6 7 = dim ->min->maj->aug

5 6 = dim->perfect->aug


I am sorry I am writting too much on this topic because it's Andrew's place to explain theory but I will answer this one to conclude and I won't disturb anymore.

I have never heard of "bb3". That's actually 2 or 9. I only know for "bb7" which sounds like major 6. "bb7" is only written when you want to write formula for the 7th chord and in the diminished7 case you have to write 1, b3, b5, bb7 because all 7th chords have to have 1,3,5,7 in the formula (accidentals depend on the chord type but these numbers have to be there in every 7th chord). Because of that you write bb7 instead of 6 for the dim7 chord.

This list is from one of my upcoming lessons which should be online soon. I hope this will help.

1 – unison
b2 – minor second
2 – major second
b3 – minor third
3 – major third
4 – perfect fourth
#4/b5 – augmented fourth / diminished fifth
5 – perfect fifth
b6 – minor sixth
6 – major sixth
b7 – minor seventh
7 – major seventh
8 – octave (this is never included in a scale formula as this is the same note as 1)

there is more if you want to include 9, 11 or 13 but this will be enough for now.

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This post has been edited by Emir Hot: Aug 30 2008, 04:50 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
Aug 30 2008, 05:07 PM
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In theory you can have a diminished 3rd but it would be the same as a major 2nd so doesn't really perform a musical function - if you flatten a major 3rd twice you get a 2nd as Emir said, which makes the chord a sus2 not anything else.

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kjutte
Aug 31 2008, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Aug 30 2008, 05:38 PM) *
I am sorry I am writting too much on this topic because it's Andrew's place to explain theory but I will answer this one to conclude and I won't disturb anymore.

I have never heard of "bb3". That's actually 2 or 9. I only know for "bb7" which sounds like major 6. "bb7" is only written when you want to write formula for the 7th chord and in the diminished7 case you have to write 1, b3, b5, bb7 because all 7th chords have to have 1,3,5,7 in the formula (accidentals depend on the chord type but these numbers have to be there in every 7th chord). Because of that you write bb7 instead of 6 for the dim7 chord.

This list is from one of my upcoming lessons which should be online soon. I hope this will help.

1 – unison
b2 – minor second
2 – major second
b3 – minor third
3 – major third
4 – perfect fourth
#4/b5 – augmented fourth / diminished fifth
5 – perfect fifth
b6 – minor sixth
6 – major sixth
b7 – minor seventh
7 – major seventh
8 – octave (this is never included in a scale formula as this is the same note as 1)

there is more if you want to include 9, 11 or 13 but this will be enough for now.


Ah right, I didn't think of them as maj 2nd and 6. I just thought of it as dim 3 as in the chordrule lesson Andrew made.
I'm not great with notes (I don't have the fretboard memorized) so I make alot of mistakes like this biggrin.gif

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Quickdraw
Oct 5 2008, 04:53 AM
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I wish you were my music theory teacher in high school... my teacher is a biiiihaattcchhhh... and just to let you know i have a 99% in that class thanks to your lessons.... i understand it so much better the way you have it set up... thanks a lot for all of this work you've put into these lessons...

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Andrew Cockburn
Oct 5 2008, 02:33 PM
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Glad to be able to help!

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utak3r
Jan 4 2009, 05:20 PM
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Oh man, I had prepared a full bag of questions about chords, after reading a whole stuff about scales and single tones... well, it's empty for a while now wink.gif fantastic job, it was a big lack in my knowledge smile.gif


just a quick & simple question:

QUOTE (Kaneda @ Aug 8 2007, 10:58 PM) *
For E natural minor, the basic chord list is:

Em, F#dim, G, Am, Bm, C, D

The power chords would then be:

E5, (n/a), G5, A5, B5, C5, D5


Let's take we ain't sticked into power chords.... should I play in the second place something like:

---
---
---
-3-
-2-
-1-


?? It builds a good tension, a first thought is some old intro from one of Metallica's songs...

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vampire14
Jan 23 2009, 05:39 PM
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in the last paragraph you mentioned getting a chord progression first and than write your riffs on the scale that fits.
but how do i know what scale fits? how do i do this process the other way round?

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Shiho
Feb 1 2009, 05:17 PM
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Hey Guys,

First I wanted to say that I'm a admirer of Andrew's Professional Work, here wink.gif
Thanks a lot.

But I got a question referring to the Em Chord of the D-Major scale.

I tried to figure out the notes myself using your "formula". So after getting done the D-Major chord I came up with the E Minor Chord. If I'm right it consists of the three notes E Gb/F# and B.

So if I wanted to try out the Chord on the guitar it must've got the tab (If I got that right):

-----2--
--------
--------
-----2--
-----2--
---------

But I'm familiar to playing it without the thin E string :

--------
--------
--------
-----2--
-----2--
---------

Why is it a Em, when one of the 3 notes of which it consists isn't played? Is it a power chord then?

It also could be true that I've made any mistake. If so - Please help me to fix it smile.gif

I'm looking forward to your answers.

See you soon smile.gif

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