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Posted by: Fran May 19 2008, 03:52 PM

Hello!

I'm thinking of upgrading my current amp (Fender G-DEC Jr), and get something much better.

What I'm looking for is an amp for home use (apartment), and I was thinking of getting a valve amp, but they get really loud, so I'm not sure if it would be wise getting a real good 33W-60W tube amp if I'm not going to be able to make the valves break without having my neighbors want to kill me...

I'm open to any suggestions, solid state and hybrids welcome too, as long as they really have a nice sound that is so much better than my current Fender to justify the upgrade.

I'd also like the amp to be suitable for any style, from blues to metal, of course I consider adding any stomp box that might be needed.

So far I've though about many, many possibilities, with a huge variety of price ranges. I don't mind waiting a little bit to save enough as long as the amp is really worth it. There are many awesome valve amps out there, but they have too much power for home use, and I've heard that attenuators eat the tone, so that might not be an option.

5-15W tube amps rarely have a 12'' cone, which is something I was kind of hoping to get.

I thought about:

Fender Blues Junior: Already quite loud, I'm afraid it won't suit metal even with a stomp box/multi-fx in front
Blackheart Little Giant: Have never tried one, heard good reviews though.
Roland Cube 60: Might be too loud? But it's solid state. Is it really worth upgrading from a cheap Fender to this? Not sure...
Fender Champ 600: Nice, but not so much for heavy, plus the cone is so small...
Ibanez valbee: The same as the fender champ 600
Fender Super Champ: Seems really nice, but being Fender might not be good at high gain settings. Not really looking for another modeling amp either.
VOX AD50VT112: Not sure if these ones are reliable, I read may of them fail after some time. Again not really looking for another modeling amp.
Vox Ac30/Fender twin reverb/Fender Deluxe reverb: Expensive, awesome cleans, too loud, maybe not suitable for high gain stuff?

As you can see they are all quite different, some are good in their cleans, some are awesome but too loud, some are suitable for high gain... but none seems to be the perfect buy.
Of all those maybe the Little Giant is the best choice to play at home. But maybe there are many other models much better.

So, what versatile & quality amp would you get for home use?

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic May 19 2008, 04:32 PM

Maybe Marshall AVT50 or Randall RG75DG3 G3 ...

Posted by: Fran May 19 2008, 04:34 PM

Is that the same as the Marshall AVT50XT ?

I'll check it out.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion May 19 2008, 04:36 PM

You want no more than a 50W solid state or 30W tube for home use in my opinion. I have a 50 W tube amp and it is too loud for home use.

Posted by: Fran May 19 2008, 04:43 PM

Thanks O.C. I'll keep that in mind.

Both amps Bogdan suggested look awesome, but the randall is 75W, might be way too much power. Though a solid state amp should deliver great tone even at volume 1 right?

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion May 19 2008, 04:47 PM

On thinking about it I can heavily recommend an Orange amp for home use. My mate has one and it sounds great at low volumes and you can get that metal sound and also a cool bluesy sound.

Posted by: tonymiro May 19 2008, 04:48 PM

IF you only want it for home use then I'd agree with OC that a 50W tube will be way too loud for home use - partly since tube amps only arguably start to sound their best when run flat out. I'd suggest more 5-15W would give a reasonable volume without making you go deaf. If you can only get a tube amp over 30W then I think you really need to think about attenuation/power soaking of some sort or look at those where you can switch between pentode and triode to reduce W's.

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion May 19 2008, 04:49 PM

Something like this

http://www.orange-amps.com/products.asp?Action=View&ID=70

It has a 12" speaker also

Posted by: tonymiro May 19 2008, 04:52 PM

Yes Fran - tube amps need to run hot but Trannies tend to be able to produce their particular sound across their volume range.

Minor note - power soaks/attenuation doesn't work on trannies btw.

Might be worth looking at a hybrid - tube pre and a tranny power in this case - I think Carvin and Randall do them. That way you could use low volume at home and still have power if you went out gigging?

Cheers,
Tony

Posted by: Alex87 May 19 2008, 04:59 PM

I use 2 different amps in my home depending on situation. The Marshall AVT series is great is use the AVT100 and have done it for some years now (no complaining from neighbours ) I also use an old Roland Cube 20 the orange one, the new series in black cubes the 20, 40 and 60 are good amps too i know, so i can only recommand any of these 4

Posted by: buttmonk May 19 2008, 05:14 PM

Orange Tiny Terror and PPC112, I have 1 and it is just about starting to sing at apartment levels.

Zvex Nano: Even lower wattage so should be coming to life at pretty low volume.

Posted by: Skalde May 19 2008, 05:34 PM

I really like the 'PEAVEY ENVOY 110' Its an hybrid amp with an awesome clean sound.
You can change between three modes per channel, which gives you 6 different modes.
In the distortion channel, you can choose between: classic, modern, highgain.
In the clean channel you can select, vintage, classsic, and warm.
The amp comes with a reverb effect as well. It is really capable of producing hard metal sounds(thats the reason I bought it) and really clean to bluesy sounds.
For 200€(185€ for British customers) you get an awesome amp. In my opinion it is the best solution if you want to practise at home.
I am going to review it soon.

ps:
Maybe you should check out 'Guitar Rig', when you buy the software version only, it is not too expensive.

best regards,
Skalde

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic May 19 2008, 06:01 PM

Yeah it should sound cool on low volumes too I don't know , extra power may come in handy in future

Posted by: M-P May 19 2008, 06:08 PM

I am looking for a similar amp and so far I am really liking this one...(http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-HV-30-30W-High-Voltage-TubeHybrid-1x12-Combo?sku=480797 or http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Kustom-HV-65-High-Voltage-TubeHybrid-1x12-Combo?sku=480796). It comes with a solid state power amp and a 12ax7 tube preamp. Both models come with a 12" Celestion speaker.

Guitar World did a review (link below) of the KV65 and it really seems great for its price point.

http://www.kustom.com/player.aspx?MediaID=1130

And here is Guitar One's review of the KV30...

http://www.kustom.com/player.aspx?MediaID=1133

Posted by: Scott Gentzen May 19 2008, 06:58 PM

It's kinda mentioned above, but you definitely aren't limited to combo units when you're looking for small tube amps.

The "hot" small tube amps now are the Blackheart Little Giant and the Epiphone Valve Jr. Their head versions have a 4/8/16 ohm outputs so you can drive a variety of cabinets with them. 5 watts so they can get loud, but aren't hugely too loud with a smaller cabinet when cranked.

These two have the advantage of being real cheap and easily modifiable if you want, and not too scary to do because of their price. I just snagged a clean EVJ for $90 on ebay. Looking for a cab to run it through now.

If I wasn't worried about price, I'd be all about the Orange Tiny Terror. High quality, great sound, 15 watts. Has that Orange sound to it. yummy. They're like $600 though.

Posted by: Strungout180 May 19 2008, 07:01 PM

Blackheart is perfect for apartment use imo, possibly even still a little too loud. At 5watts with the volume past 12 o'clock I'm starting to shake the walls in my practice room.

Another possibility if you're at all mechanically inclined would potentially be a Gilmore Jr. or Ardmore from www.guytronix.com. Both sound amazing and are designed for apartment level playing as well as recording.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic May 19 2008, 07:05 PM

I have AVT50XT and it does sound thin in bedroom volumes. You do need to crank it. Also the Randall has great cleans, but the drive is little synthetic if you ask me. If you need a tube amp, I would definitely tryout Blackheart or Orange Tiny Terror.

Posted by: Fran May 19 2008, 08:06 PM

wow, loads of input here, thanks guys

That one looks really good, but hearing that even the Blackheart 5W gets a bit too loud for apartment use I guess it will be a bit overkill, damn sometimes I wish I lived in an abandoned house in the middle of the forest




I'm researching some VOX and I believe the Randall Bogdan suggested is hybrid with a tube driven MOSFET power circuit. Too may watts though.




This one is similar to the one O.C. suggested. The tiny terror seems cool with the 15W/7W switch. I wonder if it has nice cleans. I've never seen an Orange amp in my local shop, I wish i could try one.




I believe I've see this one in shops, might give it a trt, though its a 10'' cone, and for some reason I'm stubborn about the 12''.




Wow, didn't know about Kustom amps, and they come wit 12'' celestion speakers? Nice. never seenan amp with such a good cone so cheap. Will have to ask in my local shop if they can get one to try it.




Blackheart is a solid candidate. Shame I can't try one, if I order it online it will be a leap of faith, though they are cheap. EVjr seems to be the perfect amp to tweak, BUT, I don't know much about tweaking, so it's out of the list. Besides I don't think it handles metal very well, though I heard it's cleans and they are nice. Small cone too.



Those guytronix certainly look different, remind me of some expensive boutique small tubes I've seen reviewed in the past. Too special, looking for something more "standard".




A shame! AVT50XT really was a solid candidate along with the Blackheart and the Tiny terror so far. If only my local shop would bring all three so I could try them out!


Oh well, my head is going to explode. Better eat some dinner and think about it later
At least I have a cool list of amps in my pocket now

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic May 19 2008, 08:58 PM

Well you definitly got a good list Now if you could go to store to test some amps , and you can play them at low volume to see how they sound to you that way

Posted by: blindwillie May 20 2008, 07:34 AM

This is what I would recomend too.
I was going to buy a Fender Blues Jr. I boought the Blackheart BH5 because it was so cheap just to have some fun with it while waiting to buy the Fender. I have no urge for the Fender anymore.

I don't know your neighbours and I can't guess how loud you think loud is, but even the Blackheart is really loud.

Posted by: Juan M. Valero May 20 2008, 01:54 PM

it's a difficult question. I love how easy is to get a POD conected to your PC, and if have a preamp better

well, the most important is that you feel confortable with gear because if you enjoy it you'll play more and more

Posted by: Scott Gentzen May 20 2008, 03:03 PM

I wouldn't recommend the combo versions of any of the small tube amps. EVJ's is 8" and I don't think it has outs for an extension. The Blackheart combo is a 1x12 and it also has 4/8/16ohm outputs for an extension cab. Either way, being the way I am, I'd rather have the flexibility of a head and beign able to change cabs/speakers if I want.

As far as the tweakability of the EVJ, it really depends on the level you want to go to on it. You don't really have to know a lot about electronics to mess with it. There's a lot of tweaks out there that you can just follow directions on. Or buy kits. The Blackheart's a very similar design to the EVJ...there will be mods for it eventually, it just takes time. Mojo already has a turret board mod for it.

Posted by: Fran May 22 2008, 01:36 PM

I keep researching, and I'm waiting for my local shop to give me prices for most of the amps you guys suggested.

I was shocked that they can't get me the Little Giant though, they say it's not for sale yet, but I told them I've seen it for sle in internet since a few months ago. Weird.

If I decide to get the Blackheart Little Giant I believe I'll get a separate head + cab, that way it might be more versatile in the future.

If I choose this option I'd get the head + the blackheart 112 cab or maybe the epiphone 112 cab. There was a video review someone post a few days ago and both sounded good to me.

And I wonder what kind of cable would be needed to connect them.

Posted by: MickeM May 22 2008, 03:06 PM

Make sure you use a speaker cord. Not a guitar cord.

For home use I wouldn't hesitate to get a POD X3 Live. I got one already and I've got a 30W tube amp, living in a house I still prefeer the POD before the ever so sweet sounding Peavey Classic 30. I need to play way too loud to break it up. And I don't really see how you could crank a 5W tube amp in an apartment. It's still going to be loud. A Tiny Terror running on 7W is too loud, a 5W amp is just a tad lower in volume.

I know I'd get a bad conscience playing with it knowing I had neighbours. You could off course play with the volume at 2-4 but that wasn't the idea in the first place, was it?

Do yourself and your neighbours a favor and have a look at the POD!

Posted by: Fran May 22 2008, 03:25 PM

I'll check POD X3 just in case.

The thing is I already have a pocketpod, and I wonder how much better the POD X3 gets in sound quality (I know it has a ton of other features, but what about the actual sound?)

Another thing that puts me off getting the X3 is that I would have to play using headphones, OR get a nice set of monitors to really enjoy it. If I play through my current amp I'll color the sound, and the pocketpod mght be just as good...

Doubts, doubts...

Posted by: buttmonk May 22 2008, 04:52 PM

Or there's:

Peavey JSX Mini Collosal (built in power attenuator, 5W), never tried but some think it is good

Vox ADVT15XL (tube + modelling hybrid, has many higher gain models but also some clean, cheap, well reviewed)

Randall RM20CB (20W, swappable tube preamps modules to get different sounds, Hemmett to May, expensive)

Yeh, does need to be cranked pretty load even on 7W setting to get something like the best out of it. The clean is fine for me, but it is "Orange clean" and it is not the same as Fender as far as I can tell (never owned a Fender but heard stuff on the net), guess I would describe it as "darker"...

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic May 22 2008, 09:44 PM

You mean the Randall clean sound?

Posted by: buttmonk May 23 2008, 07:22 PM

Nay, I was talking about the Orange TT. Kinda screwed up the order of the last post. No experience of Randall amps, I was just looking into them at some point.

Posted by: Fran May 28 2008, 03:49 PM

I see the Little Giant has a switch to toggle between 3W/5W.

Maybe 3W is ok for an apartment?

Posted by: Bogdan Radovic May 28 2008, 06:05 PM

Well I guess it would..Who would go lower than that either way..

Posted by: Fran May 28 2008, 06:16 PM

Well there's the Killer Ant Backheart, 1W, and it actually is quite loud too! (for 1 W)
http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM08/Content/BlackheartEngineering/PR/Killer-Ant-Guitar-Amp-.html

I guess the Little Giant is a better choice though

Posted by: MickeM May 28 2008, 07:45 PM

1W, now it's getting somewhere. Have you checked out the Gilmore Jr 1/2W from Guytronix?

Posted by: SchecterSyn360 Jun 1 2008, 05:52 AM

Have you looked into the krank Rev. Jr ?? It's a metal machine that can also get decent clean and dirty blues style tones.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Krank-Rev-Jr.-20W-Full-Stack-Guitar-Amp?sku=481614

its a 20 watt tube head with 2 1x12 cabs

it will get you that all tube tone but also shouldn't deafen you

and heres some various videos to check out


Metal- http://youtube.com/watch?v=vuM6-rPXQgE&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JqFdiAA9x9U&feature=related


and sadly most people who have it don't post videos of other music than metal but i have personally tried one out and know that it can get an ok variety of sounds

just a suggestion you might not be intrested at all .... really depends in you have a favorite genre of music

another suggestion is the Line 6 Spider Valve 112

i actually own one of these and can with 100% confidence say it is extremely versatile. Its basically the sound of a Pod plugged into a tube amp. Bogner did the tube design.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-Spider-Valve-112-40W-1x12-Guitar-Combo-Amp?sku=483066

this thing gets pretty dang loud

http://youtube.com/watch?v=oOACgeNYLZ8&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KHZ-WKEq2yg&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-8A5mxPE1kE&feature=related

and of course none of these videos really justice to the amps tones there the only ones i could find

good luck

Edit: woah just looked at the other suggestions and realized this stuff is probably WAY too loud sorry

Posted by: mattacuk Jun 1 2008, 09:44 AM

Most of the Amps you mention wont do Hi-gain well ! I found that out the hard way. I bought a Vox AC15 all tube amp and loads of expensive pedals, cleans were great but the amp had no gain and the pedals made it sound rubbish!

The fenders, well they sound great! but there for clean too and not suited to metal.

After haveing owned a Roland 60 (great amp IMO) and a Vox AC15, I today use a Line 6 POD X3 and i love it !! It has all the tones I need. There is so much selection and you can share tones with your GMC buddys

Posted by: Fran Jun 1 2008, 01:14 PM

Just checked them online, seem interesting, but I guess I'd stay with 5W at least.




Yup, too loud for an apartment for sure. The valve spider was one I had in mind too.




One question Matt: how do you listen to the X3? Through headphones, monitors, or through an amp?

Posted by: mattacuk Jun 1 2008, 02:34 PM

hi fran,
I have the X3 plugged into the back of my PC's sound card through a simple stereo cable. I have really nice Creative i-trigue speakers already on my PC, so i use those instead and it works very nicely