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Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 18 2008, 04:18 PM

As you might have noticed some have reported problems with the new player video being "choppy".

Yesterday we were happy to be able to stream one of the largest videos ever at GMC - Ivan's "Rockabilly Style Solo". However - some people had problems watching this video.

With the great help of Ivan we have put together a much lighter test version of this lesson (but still in the new player).

* It would be really helpful if you could compare your experience with these two versions. (please let us know what kind of Internet connection and computer you have as well).

* Also - please let us know if the video is still choppy after buffering has finished. (buffering has finished when the white progress bar is gone)

* When testing this - please close any other applications/browser tabs you have got open. Also be sure to close your browser in between testing the two different versions.

NEW LIGHTER VERSION
OLD VERSION
(edit - we have now replaced the videos on the main page - to avoid confusion I have therefore removed the links here. Thanks for all the feedback I will get back with more info in this thread)

Thanks for taking the time to help us out!

Posted by: ItsMe Nov 18 2008, 04:24 PM

new version works perfectly fine. The old version is perfect too after buffering is complete. With the new version the playback starts right away and no buffering artefacts are visible.

Posted by: fatb0t Nov 18 2008, 04:26 PM

PC Details: Core Duo 2 1.80 Ghz, 1 Gb Ram, T3 line (work)

Lite version, video plays while buffering. No choppiness. Not the best quality.
Original version, needs at least 3 minutes to load before watching. No choppiness after the video fully loads. High quality

I think you could improve the quality of the lite version a tiny bit and make the file a little larger while still maintaining the seamlessness of the streaming video. (at least on my connection you can )

Posted by: ZakkWylde Nov 18 2008, 04:29 PM

I have a dsl-16000 connection and a dual core computer with 2g ram with windows xp, browser is firefox.

The light version buffers fully within a second while the old version buffers only a little bit faster than the actual video progress, but still preventing it from displaying choppy. It also isn't choppy when the vid is fully buffered.

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Nov 18 2008, 04:29 PM

I thought World War 3 was occuring when I loaded up old version but I am on a work PC from the late 1800's

It is slow in loading up a Word document

The new light version was perfect but quality could be upped even on this useless PC.

Posted by: Darfuria Nov 18 2008, 04:32 PM

Both fine on my desktop PC on a 20Mb connection and my old 900MHz EEE PC on 3G

Both using the latest version of Flash player, tested in IE7 and Firefox on the desktop, IE6 and Firefox on the EEE.

Posted by: coffeeman Nov 18 2008, 04:32 PM

The new test version loaded pretty fast and worked perfectly. Old version is still "choppy".

Posted by: Fran Nov 18 2008, 04:38 PM

Computer: Toshiba laptop, PIV 3 Ghz 512 MB Ram
Connection: Cable 6Mbs

Normal vid: Less than 1 minute to load, plays fine once buffered. Great image quality.
Lite version: Loads in 10 secs, plays fine without waiting to buffer, lower inage quality.

One more thing: for some reason videos in the new player seem to be "rebuffered" every day, as if they weren't stored in temp files, like the old player used to do. Maybe it's a coincidence, but I had to load several times Trond's last lesson, while in the past it would be already buffered thanks to temp files. Hope I managed to explain myself here.

One last thing: Yesterday and the day before I noticed some choppiness in the new player videos, even after buffering. Then again it might be something on my end (too many apps running at same time maybe), as today it all plays fine.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 18 2008, 04:45 PM

Thanks a lot for the great feedback - please keep it coming!

Posted by: Ramiro Delforte Nov 18 2008, 04:57 PM

With the lighter one I had no problem but the older one I had to abort the mission because I took soooo long to load the video that I've been waiting like 10 mins and it only loaded the first 4 sec.
I have a 1mb conection :S that could be the problem. Lucky me that this thursday I'm going to upgrade my conection up to 3mb, maybe then I could run the test.

Posted by: Praetorian Nov 18 2008, 05:01 PM

Double post...sorry!

Posted by: Praetorian Nov 18 2008, 05:01 PM

Pentium 4 3.4 ghz dual core
2 gig ram
2x512 meg grapgics cards
Internet Explorer


Old version - still very choppy...played smoothly when fully buffered finally!

New Lite version - played and perfectly right away! Just like the old videos!

I don't really even notice a huge difference in the video quality either. I will gladly take the lite one with the instant loading times!

Posted by: fkalich Nov 18 2008, 05:13 PM

I just want to emphasize this. Across the Atlantic, we have must slower load times even in the best of times, because your server is in Holland. Not just a little slower. MUCH SLOWER. I think this fact is just overlooked. I am sure in Europe all is fine with 30mb. But with Holland serving everyone, we are going to be much slower over here.


The light version was still choppy on my Laptop, but not nearly as bad. Still unusable. I have a 5 year old lap top.

Posted by: Bondy Nov 18 2008, 05:15 PM

The new version buffers much quicker than the old one, I did not have to hit the pause button. But on the old one i had to wait ages for it to load.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 18 2008, 05:30 PM

I do get this Actionscript error
TypeError: Error #1010: A term is undefined and has no properties.
at org.oskaroberg.video::Tracks/getCurrentTrack()
at org.oskaroberg.video::Tracks/setVolume()
at org.oskaroberg.video::Tracks/::onLoadedE()
at flash.events::EventDispatcher/flash.events:EventDispatcher::dispatchEventFunction()
at flash.events::EventDispatcher/dispatchEvent()
at flash.net::URLLoader/flash.net:URLLoader::onComplete()


Also, CPU USAGE is real high for Foxfire. Even after the video completes, it stays high. With either version. Something is really wrong there, that should not happen.

Again, I am still choppy (not as extreme) with the light version, but I have a 5 year old lap top. My lap top is probably older than what the vast majority have, I realize that. So you may not care about my small segment of the market, in a business sense.

Posted by: kaznie_NL Nov 18 2008, 05:38 PM

New version works a lot better! the clipping only happened when playing a lesson video, for instance number 2, but in very low measures. A lot less then the old version at least!!

Posted by: Matt23 Nov 18 2008, 05:45 PM

I'm using a failry new computer with Windows Vista (don't know the specs I'm afraid), and a 512MB broadband connection. I use Mozilla Firefox.
The old one loaded in 9 minutes, and the new one loaded in 1:40 minutes. I had no playing problems with either of them.

Edit: I also think lessons with the old player are loading slower than they used but it's hard to tell. If they are anyway it's not by much.

Posted by: fkalich Nov 18 2008, 06:01 PM

I suspect you captured a slow period from the Holland server. I experienced that also. First the light video loaded quickly, then later it was very slow.

Sounds like I am the only one here who can't play the light version on my laptop. Maybe it is older than 5 years, maybe 6, I am not sure.

I do have to think that is due to a flash programming bug here, because of the CPU usage. As I pointed out, there is clearly a problem here. It should not be eating up all your CPU's when it is not even playing. Nobody else has commented on this. Hit alt-control-del and look at performance for the foxfire process, while the video is running, and after it completes.

edit: and I can play the video fine in another format. I know, shhhhh.

Posted by: skennington Nov 18 2008, 06:11 PM

(Work) Pentium 4 processor with 1 g of Ram and T3 connection.

Older version took like 8min to load. Still a bit choppy after loading.
Newer version was choppy during the 30 seconds or so it took to load. After that, played well. Quality was fine imo.


@ Ivan Great Lesson Man!

Posted by: tommyboy Nov 18 2008, 06:11 PM

I'm afraid I'm still having the choppiness. However, a bit better but still totally unusable.

New Normal vid: about 28 seconds to load, plays terrible even when completely buffered. I don't see any image quality difference just bigger than the old player.
Lite version: Loads in 6 secs, plays better than the new normal but still totally unusable. Image quality is noticeably degraded from the New Normal player.

1.2 Ghz processor
1 gig ram
Linux (Ubuntu 8.10)
10 Mb connection
Firefox 3.0.4
Flashplayer 10.... latest version.
Nvidia video card (can't remember how much on board ram memory)

If I could make a suggestion, I'm all for testing and getting a new high res player going but until it's working on all systems why don't all the instructors making new lessons revert back to the old original player so us people that are having troubles can partake in the new lessons until the bugs are worked out of the new one.

tommyboy

Posted by: David Wallimann Nov 18 2008, 06:35 PM

I'm running a single core 1.8Ghz with Firefox3...
Old version plays OK when progress bar fully loaded, although there still is a bit of chopped up sound everyonce and a while. If I scroll down the pag while video plays, it gets very choppy..

New version is much better, but yeah, quality is not great...

Posted by: valentino Nov 18 2008, 07:14 PM

Both videos works fine for me. The old one works ok after the buffering is finished because the buffering is slower than playback as you can figure

Using Windows XP Internet Explorer Intel Core2 Duo 3,0 GHz - 3GB RAM - ADSL 6Mb

Posted by: fkalich Nov 18 2008, 07:29 PM

Keep in mind David, you are not the average GMC user. What may matter to you (high resolution) is not as important as what may matter to most people (fast speed in loading a lesson). I can see where the fingers are just fine in the lower resolution videos, even if it is not as pretty. In learning a lesson I may revisit sections many times, and it might just be to look at one thing I am not sure about. If there is a delay every time that I want to do that, that is an impediment. This was a similar discussion to the talking head in some of Muris' videos. Although more significant, as the lag times are longer here, at least on this side of the Atlantic. Guys that have been playing over a decade and who are professional are not the average GMC user, and their priorities will reflect such.

edit: I should listen to my own pontificating. Guys who are just starting, or maybe in the first year, can't see where the fingers are as well. After awhile you have seen all the fingerings, so you recognize it with a glance. But high resolution is important for guys early on, as they can't see the fingers as well, or can't be as sure of where there are.

I think they should have options of either high or low resolution videos. This is not an uncommon practice as we know.

Posted by: Trond Vold Nov 18 2008, 08:26 PM

New player loads alot faster! .. But the volum-slider doesnt work..

Posted by: Moon Boots Nov 18 2008, 10:01 PM

I've got a good connection so all I'm interested in is a high resolution. The lite version isn't all that great quality wise really.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Nov 18 2008, 10:39 PM

Dual Core Celeron 1.6 laptop

30mb Connection

USA

Original loads in about a minute - 0 too slow to stream, plays perfectly when loaded however

Lite version streams in about 5s and plays fine - we know about the tradeoff in quality here already.

The speed in the link between Holland and the US would seem to be significant as FKalich suggests - my link is faster than most, but defendant upon the weakest link in the chain, so performs worse than slower links in Europe.

1. There are obviously 2 factors here - the effective bandwidth between the consumer and the server, which seems to be worse when a crossing of the atlantic is onvolved

2. The Spec and/or configuration of the PC, as evidenced by the fact that some people can;t play without chopiness even with the video fully buffered.

It looks like the first is pretty much addressed by the lighter video, and the second improved by the lighter video. There are still a few people that get no relief even with the ligh video - I am guessing it has to do with the age and spec of the graphics card more so than the absolute power of the PC.

Posted by: Canis Nov 18 2008, 11:11 PM

2,70 GHz Dual Core
4GB Ram
Windows Vista Home Premium
21MB Broadband connection

And the old player was horribly slow... Which is weird, since it wasn't like that a few days ago when I first saw Ivan's lesson...

The new player is great, though. A little less detailed picture, but that's not that important to me, to be honest Only the bigger picture makes it totally worth it.


Edit: I sent the links to a friend of mine, who sits on a poor little Acer One laptop on extremely slow internet, and the new lesson worked perfect with him. He said he never experienced a video loading that fast =)

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Nov 19 2008, 12:33 AM

I apologize to everyone because of the bulky old videos!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 19 2008, 09:32 AM

Thanks a lot for the valuable feedback - it looks like we have found a compromise which will work for almost everyone. All future "new-player" lessons will follow the specifications of the "new lighter version" in this test.

I am especially happy to see that Ramiro could stream this video on a 1 mbit/s connection from Argentina - I think that is evidence of a pretty compatible solution.

In the future we will strive to improve all our systems of course - until then the ~1200 lessons we have got in the old dimensions will remain (which should keep anyone busy for a long time).

Thanks again for your patience and understanding!