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Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 04:44 PM

Sort of a response to the other Kirk Hammet thread (Some Kindo of Monster) While I love that video, because, just as people have pointed out, it is refreshing to see that everyone is human, I like to counter with a youtube video of my own. I personally think that people cant see the forest for all the trees, meaning there are so many great metal solos created and performed by kirk that people tend to disregard them, focus on really famous ones such as Master of Puppets, and go on to discuss his over use of the wah-wah or whatever.

Anway here are a few enlightening vidoes that has been collecting dust in my bookmark list for a while:

Collection of solos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKiormZsvEg&feature=related

-

Since they rarely play those songs live, its hard to find youtube versions of odd songs of the Justice album for example, songs like Shortest Straw and Frayed ends of Sanity, I recommend re-listening those if you have them in your playlist...

New NEM intro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubtER-ECMwg&feature=related

And finally a video not by kirk but a piano version of NEM that might be worth a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sZK4Hd28VA

Posted by: Muris Jan 1 2008, 04:46 PM

Kirk is a BIG player,no doubt there,you can read this in many ways
but he has left a great mark in guitar history and I surely appreciate that

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 04:53 PM

he, yes perhaps you can read big in many ways, but I sort of see where you are going though

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 05:03 PM

kirk hammet inspired me to play guitar and he is one of my fav players and i agree that some people ignore many of his solos but most guitarists wont do that.
and that "intro" to nothing else matters isnt a new intro, its a kirk "doodle" which led into nothing else matters... they have kirk doodles on every live show

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 05:12 PM

Sorry, yes I know its a kirk doodle, but you are right that it is not new. But I disagree about guitarits not ignoring his solos. I dont think I ever really listened to the Shortest Straw solo before until a week ago, and I've listened to Metallica for many years (for example). I learned the song Blackened a few days ago (the rythm track) and was amazed by the solo (when I really studied it) though I've heard it many times.

Posted by: Guitarman700 Jan 1 2008, 05:13 PM

Kirk studied under joe satriani and learned NOTHING. THAT is why i cant respect him.

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 05:16 PM

i can guarentee he learnt something! even if its just his attitude towards music or how much vibrato to use... maybe satriani's style wasnt the way kirk wanted to go but he used what he learnt in a different style.

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 05:24 PM

Guitarman700, I am sorry but I cant really care for your posts regarding Kirk or Metallica, you are obliviously unable to give constructive criticism on this topic. I don't really see any reason to phrase a counter argument since there is not much of an argument to counter.

Posted by: muntahunta Jan 1 2008, 06:06 PM

oh yea... and as for guitarists ignoring kirks solos, you may be one person who has until now, but i didnt, ive listened to metallica for years and i can say that i have attempted to play every solo and listen to almost all of them on a regular basis.

i guess its my word against yours here

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 06:28 PM

ahaha, I am glad to hear I was wrong

Good luck, hope you nail them!
I'd love to hear any recording of it, especially any MoP or Justice solo.

Posted by: Guitarman700 Jan 1 2008, 08:20 PM

I was simply stating my opinion, as were you. i respect yours, but it seems you cant respect mine.
@ muntahunta: good luck on the solos hope you nail them!

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 08:23 PM

okay... er, well whatever rows your boat my friend.

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 1 2008, 08:42 PM

I've always paid attention to his solos, and learned many of them. He's come up with some of the most creative, cool sounding solos ever, imo. It doesn't have to be Sixteenth notes at 300bpm's to be awesome music to me.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 1 2008, 08:43 PM

Ok guys, keep it civil ...

Posted by: Philippe Jan 1 2008, 08:57 PM

Concerning the thread on "some kind of monsters". It doesn't make any point. James showed kirk a new riff, and it took him a few minutes to get it right. What's the big deal? it was not something so difficult that Kirk couldn't play. He just had to memorize it...

Now, it's clear that Kirk Hammet is not a exceptional guitar player. There are tons of players much better than him (famous or not). However, he's far from being a loser. He wrote some nice solos, he performed tons of shows and sold millions of albums. I think that he's probably the guy that inspired most of us to start guitar in the first place.

Seriously, who cares if Kirk is better than Friedman or whoever? it sounds like "is batman better than superman?". Metallica is a great band, that's a fact!

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 1 2008, 08:58 PM

THANKYOU!!!

That's a very good way to put it

Posted by: jacmoe Jan 1 2008, 09:06 PM

Exceptional enough to earn him 11th place in RollingStones Magazine's http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5937559/the_100_greatest_guitarists_of_all_time/.

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 09:17 PM

He has had various top positions in other charts as well (and I believe he belongs there), but charts are always very subjective, Rolling Stones's more then most.

Posted by: Philippe Jan 1 2008, 09:28 PM

This ranking has to do with the fame of Metallica, Hammet is the lead guitarist of the band... that's why he's up there. But then, Hetfield should be there too because he contributed certainly more than hammet in the success of the band.

Posted by: jacmoe Jan 1 2008, 09:31 PM

In 2003 - IIRC - he was the first to enter Guitar Worlds Hall of Fame.

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 09:44 PM

...and he has also won guitar player of the year awards, so clearly he has some stand alone reputation as well. Any case, I did not make this thread to rank Kirk or list awards, but to show Kirk in a different light. If someone who reads this does another take through the more unusual Metallica songs and finds a solo they like, then thats more like it.

Posted by: botoxfox Jan 1 2008, 10:39 PM

,

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 10:43 PM

Indeed, I think it doesn't even feature Slash at all, for example. In make opinion he (Kirk) should be even higher up after all the historic solos he created, though, obliviously that was not what you where fishing for.

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 1 2008, 11:18 PM

Yeah, lists like that are total crap.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 1 2008, 11:33 PM

Kirk was one of the main guitarists that inspired me to pick up the guitar and become a great guitarrist, so i thank him for that.

His solos from "Ride The Lightning" to ...And Justice For All are really amazing, most of them.

Nothing? Could be, but i doubt it. Im sure he learned theory and other stuff that helped him in his playing, that he wanted a different approach in his playing than Satriani's playing is something very different.



That list is complete crap.

Posted by: Viz Jan 1 2008, 11:35 PM

Well said.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 1 2008, 11:57 PM

I don't really like Kirk Hammett that much, I respect your guys opinions and I used to love him myself but after listening to Megadeth and Marty Friedman...nevermind. Anyway the main reasons I don't that much is because he was only good and original for like one album, Master of Puppets. On KEM, every solo sounds the exact same, they all used pentatonic scales, same keys everytime, E minor, and use that tiny bit of wah that is an annoyance. For example here are some licks you will find in nearly every Kirk Hammett solo (played on various points of the fretboard.) Choose E minor, crank up some wah, use tremolo picking, double stops, a lot of bends, some of these licks below and you've basically got a mini Kirk Hammett style lesson here.

Check out Four Horsemen or Disposable Heroes for this one

|----------------------------------------------------|
|----15b-15b-15brp12-15-15b-------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|

Every single Kirk solo one of these licks multiple times, check out No Remorse, Four Horsemen, Creeping Death, etc, basically every solo. Play these using triplets.

|---15p12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------15-12-----12--15p12--------------------------------------------------------
|--------------------14--------------14-12-------12--14p12-----------------------------
|----------------------------------------------14---------------14--12-------12----------
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------14-------14\\\\\
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or he just changes it a bit and ends up copying Iron Maiden licks. Triplets as well.

|--15p12-----12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|----------15-----15--12--15p12-------12-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------14-------14--12--14p12------12---------------------------------------------
|----------------------------------------------------------------14------14-12-14p12-----12---------------------
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-----14-12-12\\\\\\---
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another generic lick that Kirk Hammett uses to end basically every solo and Dave Mustaine even is guilty of using wayyyyy too much (listen to Burnt Ice lol.) Something like this, it can be modified in various ways, but basically the same thing everytime. Use sixteenth notes. After a few times, move it up the neck couple of steps, do it again, until you get to the 22nd fret, bend it a couple of times.

|--15p12------12-15p12----12--15p12-----12--15p12----20 seconds later...---22b-22b-22b-----|
|-----------12-------------12-------------12-------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

One more lick that is in No Remorse and also used in like 10 other solos by him. Similar lick in Master of Puppets

|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----5p2-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|----------4-2----2-4-4brp2----2-4p2----------------------------------------------|
|---------------4--------------4----------4-2----------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------4-2-----------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------5--------------------------------|

EDIT: He was also good and used original licks on ...And Justice For All.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 2 2008, 12:18 AM

I watched the beginning of this video that you posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKiormZsvEg&feature=related

Look at 00:48-00:58. He isn't making up new stuff, he just took a section from the Creeping Death solo and used it again, the exact same way, no changes at all. If you study his solos you will see they are all basically the exact same except on the two albums I mentioned.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 2 2008, 12:53 AM

Kill Em All solos were written by Dave Mustaine.

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 2 2008, 01:15 AM

I know he wrote a lot of the riffs but I ghouth the solos were changed up a lot by Kirk Hammett. Look at the solos on Ride the Lightening, obviously written by the same person, and Dave didn't write those. Not saying Dave Mustaine is creative and original, because he is not. They both are just random pentatonic shred everytime, best example is Hangar 18 where Marty and him take turns soloing, Dave just does random crap petnatonic everytime and Marty does cool melodic and original licks. I'd say Dave's solo writing influenced Kirks a ton.

Dave writes way better riffs though

Metallica riffs everytime

|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--2-------------------------5---------------------------7-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--2-------------------------5---------------------------7-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|--0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-5-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-etc.----

Posted by: Smells Jan 2 2008, 01:24 AM

I think youve just got it in for poor old Kirk

the same can be said for many guitarists, I`ll add another , Dave Murray-iron Maiden, same solo over and over again, but hey who cares, I think he`s great, he cuts it for the band and the fans (me for one) love it! cant poor old Kirk be analysed in a positive way? give the guy a break, hes in Metallica! a rather successful metal band I`d say? I wish I was in Metallica

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 2 2008, 01:29 AM

I see what you are saying, but one of the biggest things for me in music is originality. When they just use the same pentatonic licks every single time, why would I want to listen to more than one song. Basically one song should not be able to sum up a guitarist, even though for Kirk Hammett, it basically does. And yea Dave Murry is basically the same, but the reason I like them is because they actually have riffs other than chug chug chug powerchord chug chug powerchord chug chug.

Posted by: Fsgdjv Jan 2 2008, 01:32 AM

I agree that Kirk has done a lot of generic and just plain boring stuff, but he has also written some of my favourite solos. For example, the intro solo to fade to black is really good and it's not just some old licks recycled, it's got everything I want in a good solo. I admire Kirk Hammet a lot, but I still agree that a lot of his solos are quite uninspired. Nevertheless, I think he's a great guitarist.

Posted by: Smells Jan 2 2008, 01:46 AM

Yup but thats Metallica mate, Maiden are the same, its a different style but its the same old riffs over and over again, the same galloping Steve Harris bass line running through it, dont get me wrong, I actually like both bands, and Maiden a lot more so, but why crucify the guy? he`s playin in the style of the band, the band like it the fans like it, lets be positive about him thats all I was saying sure not everyone likes his style, and obviously you dont and thats great, we cant all like the same things, but lets not go overboard on the poor bloke, your just never going to convince everyone that he`s rubbish

I am 100% with ya on it, I know exactly where you are comin from and you made your point, you dont like Kirk

Posted by: erik Jan 2 2008, 03:11 AM

I think its pretty stupid to judge kirk for using the pentatonic scale alot. Why not? Let's take the intro-solo on No Remorse from Kill 'Em All. LOTS of pentatonics, but still it used to be my favourite solo. Yeah you can be all theory-geek and argue all day long that it doesn't take a genius to make a solo like that, but still, that solo got additude! It kicks ass, It's just so energetic and raw, and it fits PERFECT with the rest of the song. (I know Dave Mustaine wrote that solo, but Kirk changed it alot, and I wouldn't really give Dave much credit for it..). Kill 'Em All is actually my favourite album because it's the most agressive and raw album. ALL music is not suppose to have lots of theory.

He have also made more theoreticly advanced soloes on the later albums, which are also great and fits into the songs that are less heavy than the earlier ones. But he haven't made anything REALLY theoreticly advanced. You know why? Cause it's not their style. This is the 80's thrash metal, it's not supposed to be that way. (talking about the early albums).

I think Kirk is an exelent guitarist who has done alot for metal. Just look at metallica's fans. If Kirk was as bad as many people say he is, he wouldn't be in one of the most succesfull metal-bands ever.

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 2 2008, 03:53 AM

It's like people always bashing Yngwie because he uses the same scales alot in his music. I don't really care though. As long as it sounds good and not like a recycled version of a previous song. I really only feel like Kirk has a few solos that sound similar.

As to the chug, chug, chug in most of Metallica's songs: that's what you'll here in many thrash metal bands. Metallica might not be the most creative in using that method, but it still sounds good, to me at least.

WTF!!!
I just took a good look at it, and Kurt Cobain, John Frusciante, and the guitarist from the White Stripes are all in the top twenty. EVH is like # 79

Posted by: shellshock1911 Jan 2 2008, 03:56 AM

Nothing wrong with using the pentatonic scale a lot. Look at SRV, he makes great use of the pentatonic scale. It is the fact that he uses the same licks in every solo and they sound the exact same, that I don't like too much. And the only difference between the pentatonic minor scale and regular minor scales is the taking away of the 2nd and 6th. That isn't much theory at all, just two notes that have been taken away.

EDIT: And yea that Rolling Stones list is a joke lol. There is really no list that can accurately place ALL guitarists, there is too many styles and genres. Jazz guitarists don't go in heavy metal guitarists lists, and vice versa.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 2 2008, 08:27 AM

yeah, thats a sad list

Posted by: Viz Jan 2 2008, 08:58 AM

its great to see such am interesting debate developing! My major reason of supporting Kirk though, is because he creates metal solos that does *not* sound generic, sounds unique to that specific song, and that sounds melodic. Creeping Death, Fade to Black, One, Blackened etc. I agree that he has a lot of standard pentatonic stuff going on but I'd say many metal guitarists has even more in their solos, especially Megadeth, quite obvious when you look at the fact that Dave created the Metallica solos that sounds the most generic (and most shred in them). Dave and Marty are awesome guitarists though, no arguement there.

Posted by: swingline Jan 2 2008, 09:10 AM

Wow thats pretty screwed up.

Plus 16 Johnny Ramone
85 Randy Rhoads
86 Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath
I'm surprised Billy Joe of Greenday isn't number 1.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 2 2008, 09:54 AM

LMAO or the dude from Blink 182 lmao

Posted by: botoxfox Jan 2 2008, 11:50 AM

,

Posted by: Larn Jan 2 2008, 12:20 PM

Kirk H and Metallica are great, if not the greatest, cant belive anyone would try degrade them in any way.

Posted by: Andrew Cockburn Jan 2 2008, 02:11 PM

Ahh, almost perfect - just miss out a few more letters and your posts might even start making sense

Posted by: SLASH91 Jan 2 2008, 03:09 PM

It's pretty pathetic that these people either want to creat a list for everyone who only knows of the most famous guitarists ( Hendrix) and listens listens to crap music ( White Stripes, sorry if anyone likes them), or they just don't know anything themselves

Posted by: Tomotoms Jan 2 2008, 04:09 PM

I quite like The White Stripes. But I'm more than willing to admit Jack is a rubbish guitarist, and as for Meg... *shudders*

Posted by: jacmoe Jan 2 2008, 05:52 PM

No, it isn't!
I just grabbed the first and best from Google to prove my point. And it did.

((( I admit that some of the rankings are *interesting* )))

Thank God we are all different - would be a bland world if we weren't.

Posted by: Guitarman700 Jan 2 2008, 06:36 PM

No seriously, that list is crap. hell, you cant even make a best guitarist list. theres so many great guitarist no ones heard of.

Posted by: SEANCD2005 Jan 2 2008, 07:29 PM

kirk deserves major credit for the stuff hes come up and the things hes accopmlished.

Posted by: KRmachine Jan 9 2008, 10:12 AM

Kirk's level of playing is nowhere near that of players like Vai or Satriani, and probably half the instructors on this site can outplay him, but it works for what he does. His solos seem to fit in the songs, without taking over them entirely, and that's at least something. He's also definitely a big influence for many many guitarists that are just starting out (including me when I just picked up the guitar).

Posted by: Sabbz Jan 9 2008, 03:39 PM

Ditto. I'm no big fan of Kirk's either. I think his playing ability has diminished over the years, to say the least. Don't get me wrong, I like his playing. I just think he's waaaaaay overrated.

And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea5K0upOrLI&feature=related had me ROTF.

Posted by: FretDancer69 Jan 9 2008, 10:46 PM

lmao hilarious!!!!

Posted by: Sabbz Jan 10 2008, 02:41 AM

My wife failed to see the hilarity.

Posted by: VinceG Jan 10 2008, 01:18 PM

Hes a thrash player, not a virtuoso. Hes decent for what he does.

Posted by: Philippe Jan 11 2008, 12:58 PM

this is the real version

haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGYwwvWiCi8&feature=related