Guitar Quality Control, Are we really getting the best from our favourite brands? |
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Guitar Quality Control, Are we really getting the best from our favourite brands? |
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Apr 3 2014, 06:00 AM |
Yeah, that'd be great!
Quality control for almost everything that's even remotely mass manufactured seems to be in decline. Everything is disposable. I started buying guitars in the mid 70s and I got some real 'dogs' from both fender and Gibson. Most gretsch guitars - even in the 50s - weren't good for much other than firewood. The goods ones were GREAT but the bad ones were legion. Early on I started replacing pickups, bridges and tuners - everybody did (remember - 70s, the beginning of the replacement pickup era), it's just what you did. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't know any better. I've grown up in the era of decling quality. In the 36 years that I've been buying (lots of) guitars I've probably only bought 5 'new' ones. I'm into used and cheap and tweak to my taste and needs. To be honest I can't fathom spending what i see some folks pay for any (new) high - end solidbody electric. Its a couple of hunks of lumber and a 7th grade electronics project. No value judgment but I ain't gonna do it. I know that many would say, "but Kenny [that's for you Becca ] wouldn't you love a perfectly set up with perfect intonation and a beautifully finished ________ brand guitar?" No. I learned how to play and learned to love guitar on a POS sears silvertone acoustic and then another pos boat oar of a usa Fender Telecaster. I wouldn't know what to do with a really high end Axe. Conversely, at least with Fender, the $179.00 entry level electric of today completely blows away the entry level, no name electrics available when I started. Which was about $69 US (currently adjusting for inflation = $289.00). Also, and this is Leo's genius - even the biggest hunk of junk $79.00 Squier affinity Hello Kitty Strat still 'sounds and feels' uniquely like a Stratocaster. Not too mention you can fix and set up a Fender with tools and materials from about any hardware store in the world (again, the Fender ethic). *I think you asked why aren't all Fenders shielded in the control cavity? Because it takes a little of the top end sparkle away. I don't necessarily feel that that much reverence for history is all that necessary (a '57 wasn't shielded yada yada) but many others completely and vehemently disagree. Different tastes, different requirements. *Fender did start putting Humbuckers in Teles in 1972. The Tele 'deluxe' and that particular humbucker, the WRHB wide range humbucker, is VERY quiet and the originals are great sounding, much sought after pickups. It was designed by Seth Lover, famed inventor of the Gibson PAF. It isn't Fender's fault that 'most' guitar players dig standard strat and tele pkups. Depending on the model(s) you choose there are plenty of Fenders with good shielding, humbuckers, 'noiseless' singles, etc. to choose from. Though past and current taste still seems to suggest that a standard issue Tele or Strat is what most folks are looking for. As to what the bigger companies should do? Fast and cheap seems to working for the share holders. I don't like or agree with that particular business model but I don't think it's about to change any time soon and as Todd said there's a ton of boutique and semi-boutique builders out there to choose from. Boutique amps, guitars, effects - some say it's a renaissance for elec guit players right now ... ? Also, the used market, at least in the USA, is pretty depressed right now. You can get some great high end and vintage gear at very good prices. This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 4 2014, 01:43 AM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Apr 3 2014, 06:23 AM |
I think someone needs a hug!
Saying that, you can go on many of the big guitar forums and hear people talk about the lack of quality control in Gibson, and how years ago some of the guitars they are putting out wouldn't even go out as 2nds or acknowledged to having blemishes and these retail at a 2K+. Fender seem to do a lot better and also even their entryish level Squire Classic Vibe and Vintage Modified ranges are praised and have a quality that years ago you could never have got for the price. There are now a lot more choices if you want to avoid some of the bigger production brands, with many builders making custom clones for a custom shop price and assemblers who buy the parts from companies like Muskraft, Warmoth USAGC etc (and a lot of them have very good relationships with these companies and get the quality pieces to their own specifications) and do the finishing work to a very high standard and get you the guitar of your dreams at a very reasonable price. We've got so much choice in this generation, it's hard to bitch about being a guitarist, I think we are very lucky. -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Apr 4 2014, 06:38 PM |
The four and five thousand dollar Gibsons are still pretty great quality.
The custom shop Fenders that are $2500 to $3000 are also of superior quality so in a way I guess they do directly compete with USA made PRS, Suhr, Sadowsky, etc. But in the spirit of this thread I too feel that you shouldn't have to spend 3 grand to get a great axe. This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 5 2014, 04:30 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Apr 5 2014, 12:19 PM |
Some very good points made again. Kenny nails it with his comments about mass production and a general decline in standards. Surely though the point of mass production is to bring down the cost so paying some people to sort out finishing details wouldnt be that much of an issue. The extra money they charge for special or limited editions should warrant a better standard of finish. I dont own a PRS but a friend does and it is staggeringly beautiful and well made. Parker fly owners always seem very pleased too. Yes,I know we are talking about very high end instruments here But names like Gibson and Fender who sell you a four figure guitar should produce a consistent standard. If we all do as Poster Boy suggests and just be grateful these companies deign to let us give them wads of money then things will just get worse. Kenny is also correct about the entry level guitars of yesterday. Shocking, sometimes literally. My very first guitar that my folks bought me was a Woolworths KAY guitar and Audition amp. I am amazed I ever took it further when I think of how bad that POS was. Todds Ibanez I agree with. I know the model and it was a very capable guitar. The only Ibanez I ever owned was a Lawsuit Gold Top. Nice to play but the PAF copies were rubbish. All midrange and a tendency to be microphonic. Actually,I wouldnt mind one again with decent pups Or a 70 's Ovation Preacher. SKEVERSON is a new on me Todd. Have you got one? Please post some pics I would love to see it. Cosmin Lupo explains the economics of it all very well. I just think if enough of us express disatisfaction with it. then they have to listen. dont they? You misunderstood me I'm not saying we should be grateful to companies to give them wads of money for poor quality, I'm saying there is so much choice now, you can easily choose to not to buy from those companies and go elsewhere for the quality control we want! -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Apr 5 2014, 04:58 PM |
Thanks man - It's sad that I am right tho... I frankly don't think that things will change to the greater good tho - economy is not going that great and resources are scarce, in comparison to what they were 20-30 years ago. Us humans.. we don't know how to treat nature so that it will always give us what we need. We destroy it, so wood will be far less available in the years to come.. Sadly, you are right brother Cosmin. And it is one of the reasons I hold on to several of the guitars (and amps and even some pedals) I don't really play or 'need' anymore. They're USA made real wood guitars ... which, even when they're (in actuality) pieces of crap, continue to increase in value (even during the crisis). *The 'hot ticket' right now - Japanese made Fenders (and even Squiers) especially 80s and 90s models (but also the new ones). They generally don't sell the Japanese Fenders in the states (mostly mexican, malaysian, korean, chinese) but maybe you Europeans have access - ? -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Apr 5 2014, 05:02 PM |
You can get the Japanese stuff through http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/
-------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Apr 5 2014, 05:13 PM |
That's one reason for which I keep my JEM It's a real guitar, made out of real wood, back in 1989! Absolutely! @Posterboy ... a new Japanese made Strat from Ishibashi is on average $750.00 US (77, 400 yen). If you know, what's the shipping price for that and is there any 'duty' or tax charges? This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 5 2014, 05:23 PM -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Apr 5 2014, 06:35 PM |
I bought this guitar new in 1979 for $175.00 (with hardshell case).
At the time it was considered a 'cheap copy'. You can't even get a Gibson 335 of this quality for less than $3500.00 -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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Apr 6 2014, 09:11 PM |
I've a japanese made Burny FLG-90 (LP clone) from around 1982 I spent €1K on it a few years ago, can't get a Gibson of the same quality 2nd hand for that price.
The 335 style guitar Eastman are making in China is getting very good reviews. This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Apr 6 2014, 09:37 PM -------------------- My SoundCloud
Gear Tyler Burning Water 2K Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers Epiphone 335 with Suhr Thornbuckers PRS SE Custom 24-08 Ax8 Fessenden SD10 PSG Quilter TT15 |
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Apr 6 2014, 10:35 PM |
Oh Dawkins!! That is lovely. I cant make out who made it, is it a Columbus? I knew a guy who played in the Buddy Holly stage show and NEVER took his Gibson on. Always used the Columbus but with Gibson pickups. No one ever noticed. It's an Ibanez 'artist', model # (most probably) 2629. The Burnys, Greco and Max (Slash's first LP) Gibson LP copies are highly sought after these days. They are fantastic instruments. Now regarded to be superior to their Gibson counterparts, other than the 'historic' and custom shop models. Many of these actually have a fake Gibson headstock logo. *Also, there's a ton of non-Fenders out there with Fender logo stickers on them. I have one. The body is an '83 standard strat but the neck is a repro ... I put a sticker on it. IMO it's looks best that way. You can usually buy Fender logo stickers at swap meets. -------------------- - Ken Lasaine
https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/foolin-the-clouds https://soundcloud.com/klasaine2/surfin-at-the-country-hop Soundcloud assorted ... https://soundcloud.com/klasaine3 New record ... http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/kenlasaine Solo Guitar ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...5iIdO2tpgtj25Ke Stuff I'm on ... https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXZh...b-dhb-4B0KgRY-d |
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