Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

GMC Forum _ CHILL OUT _ Windows Vista/7 Install Fails

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 12:10 PM

I've been having a bizarre issue with my computer that I finally have the time to try and resolve.

Rough specs:

MSI Platinum 7246 V2.1
Core 2 duo 2.66
2GB DDR6400
GeForce 8800GTX
150GB Raptor
Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum fatality blah blah
Akasa 650W PSU

The system is running XP SP3 without any problems. Originally, I encountered an issue with the Western Digital drive scanner saying that my raptor had errors, but since then those errors seem to have resolved through formatting or something (extensive drive test passes). However, Partition Magic says that the drive is bad and that I'm unable to partition it without formatting it first. XP has only been installed for a week, as I attempted to install one of the later operating systems to see if the issue was still ongoing.

If I disable ACPI I am able to install and run Ubuntu with no problems.

I can install Windows Vista from a legit retail disk. The installation completes but when I restart the computer it hangs at the loading screen. I can resolve this sometimes by booting into Safe Mode and then restarting. The same happens from a burnt ISO. I have also tried using X86 and X64 versions. However, Windows Vista does run perfectly in Virtual PC 2007 on XP.

Windows 7 freezes at "expanding files". I have downloaded the ISO multiple times, burnt it at various speeds to different kinds of disks. Also tried X86 and X64. I have not yet tried running Windows 7 on Virtual PC.

I am unable to update my BIOS, despite trying every known method. The Award BIOS flash utility just keeps flashing "Please wait!".

A few months ago I got a message saying that the graphics card wasn't receiving enough power, but I've not seen this since, and have had no issues.

I've tried installing the operating systems on different HDDs with different SATA cables - same issues.

I have replaced my optical disk drive. Since replacing this running a live disk has been much more stable.

I have run a memtest which reported no errors.

I really don't know where to go here, besides slowly replacing every component until the issue is resolved. Any suggestions would be really appreciated.

Posted by: Gilmore Jun 18 2009, 12:35 PM

Hi

That´s a decent machine, and very simular to mine. The only thing I can think of is the Raptor, try installing another harddrive and install Vista/Win7 there. If you don´t have another HDD then format the Raptor and do a clean install.




Posted by: Rob Wilson Jun 18 2009, 12:39 PM

I dont think its the HDD as he stated he tried different HDD's and cables.

It sounds to me like the motherboard as it doesnt update the BIOS. How did you resolve that issue becasue if you rebooted during a BIOS flash then that messes things up.

But as you say, removing the components one by one to pinpoint the problem may not be a bad idea

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 18 2009, 12:51 PM

Might be the mobo but they are usually pretty resilient unless you put some static through them.

Another possibility is that the master boot record has been corrupted. If that's the case you'd need to run 'fixmbr' command at the recovery console.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 12:59 PM

I think the "Please wait!" stage of the BIOS flash is when the flash utility searches for the new version of the BIOS to update to, although I'm not sure. It certainly didn't process any files as there was no disk read after the initial load of the application. So the machine rebooted as usual.

@tonymiro - I didn't think of checking the MBR. I suppose there could be an issue with it, especially as Partition Magic is reporting the disk as "bad" and unpartitionable, even though the Western Digital utility reports no errors. I'll give that a go.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 01:27 PM

Oh - another thing. Windows Vista runs fine in Virtual PC 2007.

Posted by: Rob Wilson Jun 18 2009, 01:43 PM

You could try partition table doctor, only thing is make sure you back up! I used it once to sort a HDD problem where it was totally unrecognizable, even plugging it into a IDE to USB converted and putting it on my PC it thought it was only 18MB or something. This program sorted it all out.

http://www.ptdd.com/

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 01:47 PM

Thanks Rob, I'll check that out as well. Everything is all backed up anyway, as I've attempted installing operating systems about 30 times in the past few days wink.gif

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 18 2009, 02:02 PM

Just going back to the graphics card bit in your op. If you have a spare psu to hand try that as I wonder if it may be starting to fail.

I once had a similar issue on a pc where the psu had started to fail and there then ensued a long saga of problems with drives and cards not starting up at boot properly. Modern graphic cards tend to pull an awful lot of juice at start up. Sometimes it can help if you put them on a few seconds delay to let all your other devices start properly. Irritating bit is you don't get POST warnings when this happens so it's not entirely obvious what's going on.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 02:13 PM

Yeah - I did think of doing that. Unfortunately I don't have a spare PSU to hand, and don't really fancy buying expensive new components until I have gone through all of the cheap solutions. I've also not had any issues like that since it happened - even when playing demanding video games. No blue screens, or anything else, either.

I suppose I could try removing my graphics card out of the equation and try using on-board graphics, but I'm not sure how Vista or Windows 7 would cope with that.

Posted by: Rob Wilson Jun 18 2009, 02:25 PM

Vista/7 needs:

"Support for DirectX 9 graphics with:

WDDM Driver

128 MB of graphics memory (minimum)

Pixel Shader 2.0 in hardware

32 bits per pixel"


Posted by: tonymiro Jun 18 2009, 02:31 PM

I didn't get any BSODs either when the psu started to fail.

Think both those OS would throw a wobbly if you tried to use the on-board graphics. 7 would probably be more tolerant though so if you could get into safe mode and turn off Aero and all the other Vista type bells and whistles it might work. I saw someone on a Win 7 Beta test forum who claimed they were using an old p4, 756mb ram and on board sound and graphics with the Win7 RC ohmy.gif .

BTW have you tried booting in to Ubuntu and using its disc survey/recovery/repair software to check your drive? Linux is usually much better at this then Windows and I think may even go down to MBR level. I'm not entirely sure as its a long time since I had any Linux distro (way back when Red Hat was at V5 rolleyes.gif ).

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 02:46 PM

You know, I'm not even sure my motherboard has onboard graphics. I suppose the PSU might have to be my first expensive purchase, then. What's recommended for a system of this caliber? I'm beginning to think 550W might not be enough, and I should go for a 700W or something.

Despite whether the OS would run after installation, would the installation run without detecting any potential hardware issues? Assuming I have onboard graphics, the installation might run if the graphics card is unplugged. Thinking of unplugging, it could be something as silly as a faulty power cable - that's not something I've looked into. I suppose without suitable power output testing equipment it's hard to say whether the PSU is at fault.

I didn't try Ubuntu's disk utilities. I assume I can run those from a live disk. I'm not sure I feel like installing another OS for a while!

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 18 2009, 03:05 PM

550 should be enough but it may be right at the limit. The amount of power for a modern pc mounts up pretty quick and is a bit scary. http://www.pcpower.com/technology/power_usage/ is a bit out of date but will give you a general idea. Ultimately even if you're psu has enough power they can, and do, still fail after a while.

TBH though apart from the actual wattage I think the quality of the psu makes some difference. A good psu like coolermaster etc tend to be more robust then a cheap one of equivalent wattage. Make sure you get the right sort for your mobo though as the molex connectors are not all the same.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 07:23 PM

Okay, I'm home from the office now, and am attempting a few of the support suggestions here - in no particular order.

I've just popped my Ubuntu live disk in (the disk I used to install the computer). The first time I booted it it hung at "setting hardware abstraction layer hald", and now it keeps hanging at loading the desktop.

Also, upon further inspection, I have an Akasa 650W PSU, which I would have bought some time around January 2007 (I think), as that is when this PC was built.

I really want to get it out of its current case (Antec P180) and into a bigger case. This one really isn't big enough for cables and components. I don't have any overheating issues though.

Next step. I booted into the XP recovery console and ran fixmbr - it said that I had a damaged or invalid MBR (or something along those lines). I fixed it and rebooted with no damage done to the OS. Partition Magic still says the raptor is bad though, which means I can't partition it. I guess I'll have to swap it out and attach a spare drive to attempt OS installation.

 

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 18 2009, 08:39 PM

Okay. I chucked a spare HDD and still had the same issues with Vista hanging at the loading screen after reboot, and Windows 7 being stuck on "expanding files". One thing I do notice is that my iPhone isn't being detected for some reason - perhaps a power/motherboard issue? I'm half-tempted to just go and buy a new motherboard, case and PSU...

Posted by: kahall Jun 19 2009, 02:19 AM

I did not read the thread in detail but: I have messed with systems that work fine when you install XP but will not finish a VISTA install. It has always been the RAM.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 08:56 AM

I thought it was likely to be the RAM too, kahall - but the fact that memtest returned no errors deterred me from that thought temporarily.

Posted by: Moon Boots Jun 19 2009, 10:03 AM

If I were you I'd just buy a totally new system and start fresh.

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 10:05 AM

Oh, the difference between you and my Jewish grandmother wink.gif

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 05:30 PM

I've now also run a chkdsk, just in case that resolved the issue - which, surprise surprise, it didn't.

Posted by: Sircraigery Jun 19 2009, 06:00 PM

*cough**cough* buy a mac *cough**cough*

tongue.gif

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 06:27 PM

Oh, I wish...

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jun 19 2009, 06:58 PM

have you tried different power unit? I suspect power issue or mboard issue here...

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 07:35 PM

Not yet. I sort of want to rule out any easy/cheap options before I go spending lots of money on new PSUs and motherboards. Running out of options though.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jun 19 2009, 10:23 PM

Can't you just borrow PSU from some friend/family/other PC?

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 19 2009, 10:53 PM

Not easily, I'm afraid sad.gif

Posted by: Azzaboi Jun 20 2009, 08:30 PM

I would suggest (if you have a backup elsewhere), formatting the entire hard drive and deleting all partitions including the 100MB reserve one that Win7 created on install.

Clean install a copy of Win7 (from elsewhere and another drive if possible - borrow or another computer that's working) - could be your DVD burner or reader is stuffed causing errors. I believe it will probably be just that!

Once installed (leave the backup off it) just check the stability of it without anything else affecting (this would prove is it hardware or software). Make sure no crashes, etc.

Update your OS and hardware fully including the bios (some bios have a fit with the newer Microsoft OS like Vista and some hardware compatibly unless updated), sound card, graphic cards (get updates from Nvidia), etc. Again wait a bit and check nothing freaked out.

Install a clean Virus Scanner and Firewall. Only then copy over the backup data and try re-download applications rather then installing from backup. (newer version, plus the backup maybe corrupted or infected)

Good Luck!

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 22 2009, 07:19 PM

It's unbelievable how difficult it is to get a decent copy of Windows 7 to my computer.

I'm unable to download it on my laptop. The download manager stops at 99%, regardless of restarting the download and leaving it for days.

No problem, I thought. I'll just burn the ISO I downloaded at work (which works at work) and transfer it across at home. So, I burnt it at 1x, and lo behold, copying it to my HDD, cycle redundancy error. Joys.

I'll try copying it to some mass storage device next, but this is unbelieavable.

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 22 2009, 07:25 PM

Sounds like a real pain.

Cycle redundancy errors suggests that there might have a problem with the cd drive. Any chance that you can get some one else to burn the ISO for you and try that?

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 22 2009, 07:48 PM

The ISO was burnt on my work machine - and I'm fairly confident that there is nothing wrong with that, given the amount of data I burn to disk. It's just when I got the disk home.

I suppose it could continue to point to a motherboard issue though. DVD drive is practically brand new, as it was one of the cheap components I could replace. Before replacing it, running live disks was very unstable, but now I'm able to run them with no issues.

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 22 2009, 07:56 PM

The cycle redundancy error may not be due to a bad burn though but with your home pc not doing the check sum properly. Could be caused by something as simple as a dirty lens in the drive or, as you say something a bit more fundamental...

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 22 2009, 07:58 PM

I'm just ripping the ISO from the disk from my girlfriend's laptop, to see if that works.

I'm so tempted to grab myself an Asus board and run a hackintosh...

Edit - disk read failed on my girlfriend's laptop too... enlightening, but not at the same time...

Posted by: tonymiro Jun 22 2009, 08:06 PM

Sometimes a new pc is the best way to go. Now may be a good time with the i7s around so the prices of the previous generation intels have all dropped like a stone smile.gif . Or get a nice new i7 and lots of ram ready for Win 7 on 64 bit wink.gif .

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 22 2009, 08:32 PM

Don't have a huge amount of cash to splurge really. If I did, I'd just get a Mac and be done with it wink.gif

If I do buy anything new, I expect I'll build a hackintosh and use the XP license on this to build a WAMP/file server - as the XP installation functions fine. Not really sure why I'm even bothered about updating the OS, I like XP. I think it's more the fact that I know there is a problem, and I want to resolve it.

Just dumped my older Windows 7 install onto an external HDD and set it as an active partition, went through the NTLDR boot issues and got it to boot, only to have some .dll errors. Blah

Posted by: Darfuria Jun 24 2009, 10:46 AM

Well I finally fixed the issue, which is a massive relief!

I realised there was still something I hadn't tried. I knew I could install Vista without any problems - the problems only occurred when I tried rebooting. So I installed Vista and tried to upgrade to Windows 7 without rebooting. Alas, the installation failed, but I persisted. I decided to install service pack 1, all of the important updates, and some drivers, just to reduce the change of software failure.

Unfortunately things like drivers and Windows Update require an abundant amount of restarts. I must have cold-booted my machine a good 70 times, cycling between Start Windows Normally, Safe Mode and Last Known Good Configuration. Alas my plan was defeated by Windows Update getting stuck in a loop of disregarding the applied updates and rolling the system back. So back to XP once again.

However, during all of this I had my trusty netbook beside me, and managed to find a 3rd party application on the MSI forums, which not only formats a Flash drive to be booted, but detects your system board and downloads the latest BIOS for you. I was a bit wary at first, but the application had a lot of good feedback, so, what the hell, I went for it.

I managed to format the Flash drive and download the latest version of the BIOS through this application perfectly. I then cleared the CMOS and managed to flash the BIOS first time. I cleared the CMOS once again and rebooted. Set the BIOS to fail-safe defaults and ensured that drive 0 was plugged into SATA port 1 on the motherboard. I then booted the Windows 7 DVD that I burnt at a ridiculously slow speed and ran through the installer, and lo behold! The installation completed successfully first time!

It was about 2am when I finished doing this, so I'm not sure if I tried rebooting the machine, but I'm fairly confident...

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)