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GMC Forum _ PRACTICE ROOM _ Rack Processsor
Posted by: Hajduk Mar 28 2014, 07:08 PM
So I have been trying to understand gear more and this is one of those things I'm confused about ( one of many 
) If you have a multi effects Processor do you need Pedals?? Or would you just need a foot switch?? For example if you had a TC Electronics G-Force multi effects Processor.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 28 2014, 10:24 PM
"need" is probably not accurate but you could still "want" pedals and make good use of them But no, you wouldn't need them as such. If you have a good fx unit, it will have a version of several fx pedals built in. However, your tone might benefit from adding a boutique overdrive to the chain or even a noise suppressor before the unit to help high gain patches be less noisy even though there is a noise gate built in.
So adding pedals is just a way to enhance ones tone. But yeah, most folks with a multi unit that doesn't have a built in foot controller (eg. rack units / pod bean/etc.) typically buy a foot controller. If your fx unit is good enough you can be really happy without adding extra pedals. My ELEVEN RACK has good emulations of pedals built in so I actually sold my precious ProTone Bulb Overdrive since I just didn't need it anymore.
But if you buy a pod, or something else on the lower end side, you might add a nice pedal of some kind to it
Todd
) If you have a multi effects Processor do you need Pedals?? Or would you just need a foot switch?? For example if you had a TC Electronics G-Force multi effects Processor.Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 29 2014, 08:59 AM
Todd is right It's all about your tastes and actual needs. I for one, if i were to get a rack unit, I would use delays, reverb and such from that unit but place the noise suppressor and the booster as pedals. It's something you just can't go wrong with! Are you into getting a rack unit?
Posted by: Hajduk Mar 29 2014, 09:21 AM
Thank you, Todd and Cosmin Yeah would love to get one, was just confused as to what the deal with them was! When I saw Satriani he had a full pedal board but the other guitarist ( Mike Knealey) Had the racks, maybe they both used them?? Would really like to get a unit, just not sure which one or how much I would like to spend, or how much I can My son just got braces $6000.00 dollars, be paying that off for a bit.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 29 2014, 02:09 PM
Yeah would love to get one, was just confused as to what the deal with them was! When I saw Satriani he had a full pedal board but the other guitarist ( Mike Knealey) Had the racks, maybe they both used them?? Would really like to get a unit, just not sure which one or how much I would like to spend, or how much I can My son just got braces $6000.00 dollars, be paying that off for a bit.Man..... sorry to appear as a dumbass, but what sort of braces can cost 6000 bucks? It seems like a huge amount for dental braces.. Mate, I wouldn't spend my money on a rack effect, as I usually need only a delay or a reverb when playing. If I have one pedal for each effect, it's about enough.
I am currently testing a VOX AC15 and believe me, the ONLY thing that I added in front of it was the Suhr Shiba Drive pedal and of course the built in spring reverb. For lightly distorted lead playing and clean playing it's THE THING!
It's simply beautiful! Shooting two vids with it next week
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 29 2014, 11:20 PM
Unfortunately this thing is pretty twisted and depends on the long list of "how I connect my gear"
1. If it's rack processor in amp fx loop than You will still need some fx in front of the amp because....in the fx loop they work different
2. Rack FX can do a loto of job but You might no be satisfied with some of the effects. Example. I use T.C G-major in fx loop but I'm not satisfied with chorus and phaser effects from it but I use them live anyway....because I use those to rare to make myself trouble by new devices in pedalboard, new purchases, rig reconfig etc
3. If You DON'T USE DISTORTION FROM YOUR AMP (clean channel only and stomp distortion) , You might find You don't need anything more than this Rack FX but...here comes MY THING...
...One of most important arguments for having rack fx in my case...was to keep it close to the amp, short connection chords, fx loop for the amp to use it with amp distortion.
This is very individual
Posted by: Hajduk Mar 30 2014, 02:59 AM
Thanks for the great insight Cosmin and Darius In Canada our medical is all paid for but Dental is the killer, yup $6000.00 for some metal rails on teeth but he will have nice straight teeth!
Posted by: Darius Wave Mar 30 2014, 02:58 PM
This price really looks scary...
Posted by: Hajduk Mar 30 2014, 05:52 PM
Haha Yes it is Darius! I often think of all the nice guitars I could have bought family first though, the way its gotta be
but seriously I could have bought a killer guitar and amp, haha
Posted by: tonymiro Mar 30 2014, 06:10 PM
...
My daughter has braces and her's cost a little over 3000 Euros, so $6000 doesn't surprise me.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 30 2014, 09:19 PM
Pfffaaa! I really think that braces are MUCH, MUCH cheaper here Mates, I think that I am in love with that AC15. I frankly don't feel like I need anything else right now when it comes to clean and crunch/light leads. It's not a metal amp - I will have other stuff for that, but this AC15 is something ...wow!
Posted by: Todd Simpson Mar 31 2014, 01:14 AM
One rack unit I can highly recommend is the Digidesign Eleven Rack, since I own one and LOVE it. I"ve tried more gear than I ever thought possible and most of the rack/floor multi processors I've tried were CAAARAAAAPPPPPP!! Pods included. All new Digitech products included (RP series) all wer crap. I've owned the behringer multi fx pod as well and it was crap.
Keep in mind I'm looking for high gain for low / mid gain any multi is fine 
I finally got a ELEVEN RACK and the stand alone software editor and WOW. It's like I'm using TH2 (my fav plugin) but attached to a box that racks up and goes with me. You can find them on Ebay used for $300. which is shockingly cheap for this much processsing and tone. I paid about that for one overdrive a bit back.
You will need a midi foot switch to control it. If it's a bit much for starting, just grab something cheap to play with and get used to working with multi fx, Pod, Behringer, Line 6, all roughly similar so just set a price and buy whatever fits. You can always sell it later to get something good.
https://soundcloud.com/techniqueswithtodd/avid-elevn-rack-custom-patch
) If you have a multi effects Processor do you need Pedals?? Or would you just need a foot switch?? For example if you had a TC Electronics G-Force multi effects Processor.Posted by: Hajduk Mar 31 2014, 05:12 AM
That's awesome Todd, will look it up and see if I can get one on Ebay or maybe craigslist!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Mar 31 2014, 02:38 PM
There's a catch though
You need to be a VERY patient man and have an inclination towards tweaking parameters, if you want to get a great tone out of these babies. I for one am a more oldschool sort of dude in respect to these things and I like my stuff to have a few knobs and do 2-3 things at most. But that doesn't mean these processors are bad - they just take more time to work with.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 1 2014, 01:08 AM
Cosmin is SPOT ON!!! The presets that come with the ELEVEN are CRAP but the good new is I"VE MADE SOME PRESETS I CAN SHARE WITH YA!! Like the one in the sound sample. I've spent hours upon hours tweaking the crap out of this thing and finally found the secret sauce to BIG KRUNCHY tone.
You can use the standalone software app to tweak settings on your computer so it's like editing amplitude or something. And it connects via usb to your computer so it's a recording interface. It has a total of 8 inputs!!! Even has a built in mic preamp on the front for recording with a microphone doing vocals, acoustic guitar etc.
For the used price, the feature set and tone is without peer. You could spend three times as much and get a first gen axe fx but you could buy two eleven racks and two foot controllers and two rack cases for the same money.
You need to be a VERY patient man and have an inclination towards tweaking parameters, if you want to get a great tone out of these babies. I for one am a more oldschool sort of dude in respect to these things and I like my stuff to have a few knobs and do 2-3 things at most. But that doesn't mean these processors are bad - they just take more time to work with.Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 1 2014, 10:22 PM
It's true, that the analogue devices offer far less possibilities in one unit, but they sound hellishly good... for instance, I am ready to spend 600 euros on the VOX AC 15 even if it's only a clean channel amp. I will get a metal prone head and I will use both onstage. I only have to tweak a few knobs and it sounds killer It's heavy tho and I will need a car 
Terrible disease is this one of the gear
Posted by: Darius Wave Apr 3 2014, 11:01 AM
Some amps just sound good no matter what You set on the EQ. Usually those are the "3 knobs" amps
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 3 2014, 10:39 PM
Like that wonderful VOX AC15 I have at home
I keep mentioning it and maybe it's already becoming annoying, but for me, it's a tone so wonderful I can't stop being amazed 
Darius, what amp was it that charmed you like a beautiful lady?
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 3 2014, 11:33 PM
I keep mentioning it and maybe it's already becoming annoying, but for me, it's a tone so wonderful I can't stop being amazed I know what you mean Cos, I used to use an AC 30 TB for quite a while. I never should have sold that thing!!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 4 2014, 07:31 AM
I'm seriously thinking about having two amps onstage - the Vox for the clean and crunch tones and maybe a Peavy 5150 or a Blackstar for the metal. That sort of rig is gonna be difficult to carry around, but for that tone... heh
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 4 2014, 12:06 PM
I was lucky in the fact that the Band I was with at the time didn't play anything too 'Heavy' so it was easy to just set a nice Clean sound and just use an OD or Distortion for heavier sounds. This was back in the late 80's/early 90's and I soon started experimenting with the brand new Zoom Multi FX's that were all the rage!
I had the Zoom 9000 Unit (two of) and a 2020 Multi FX Floor Box when they first came out. I later used the 9050 Rack Mount (also used by Brian May, Ritchie Sambora, Yngwie and a few others) and finally settled with the Rack Mount 9150 Digital Sound Processor with a Valve Pre-amp Stage. The 9050 and 9150 are still part of my Live Rig today!!!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 5 2014, 12:12 PM
I had the Zoom 9000 Unit (two of) and a 2020 Multi FX Floor Box when they first came out. I later used the 9050 Rack Mount (also used by Brian May, Ritchie Sambora, Yngwie and a few others) and finally settled with the Rack Mount 9150 Digital Sound Processor with a Valve Pre-amp Stage. The 9050 and 9150 are still part of my Live Rig today!!!
Sweet Lord! Neil, it sounds like you had a huge amount of gear in your life so far... I think I had far, far less stuff, but then again, I was never the type to experiment all the time, so it all adds up I think.
But I would like to keep away from processors to be honest
If I can stick to the simple things for all my life, I would be the happiest dude on the planet Posted by: Caelumamittendum Apr 5 2014, 12:17 PM
But I would like to keep away from processors to be honest
If I can stick to the simple things for all my life, I would be the happiest dude on the planet How's this for a simple guitar then:
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 5 2014, 05:30 PM
This is amazing!
So, there's that Brushy one string guy that has the acoustic one string realm covered and there's this dude for the electric. Pretty spiff! As Todd would say it!
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 5 2014, 05:47 PM
But I would like to keep away from processors to be honest
If I can stick to the simple things for all my life, I would be the happiest dude on the planet I have, it's true!! I still have quite a lot of it still!!
In the late 80's - early 90's I had an endorsement with Dean Guitars through a good friends Music Shop and a very sweet deal with his Zoom Rep so I got to try stuff and buy it very cheaply if I wanted to!!
As you point out, simple is usually best! The best sounding set-up I had from all of this gear was using my Zoom Stomps, the 9150 Valve Pre-amp and then running it into my Peavey Renowns Power Amp stage! Simple, effective and seriously LOUD!!!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 6 2014, 06:12 PM
In the late 80's - early 90's I had an endorsement with Dean Guitars through a good friends Music Shop and a very sweet deal with his Zoom Rep so I got to try stuff and buy it very cheaply if I wanted to!!
As you point out, simple is usually best! The best sounding set-up I had from all of this gear was using my Zoom Stomps, the 9150 Valve Pre-amp and then running it into my Peavey Renowns Power Amp stage! Simple, effective and seriously LOUD!!!
But you Sir, have had a lot indeed
Today, I shot 2 vids for PRS and I came to the conclusion that the Vox AC15, Suhr Shiba drive and a guitar were pretty much all I need
Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 6 2014, 07:32 PM
BTW, FOLKS CHECK HIS LIGHTING SETUP!!! This is textbook on what you can use to make well lit vids He's got the backdrop, the lighting kit, nice!!
Today, I shot 2 vids for PRS and I came to the conclusion that the Vox AC15, Suhr Shiba drive and a guitar were pretty much all I need
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 6 2014, 08:57 PM
There is a lot of useful information here. Nowadays I'm using just pedals because I find them easier/faster to set, and with a better quality compared with my Pod HD500 which is the only FX processor that I have. Another reason why I use pedals is that I don't use too many effects when I play live. My pedal board consists on: Volume Pedal, Wah Wah, Delay, Phaser, Chorus, Overdrive and Tuner. Phaser and Chorus are less important for me than the others but it's cool to add them in some short sections.
Deciding on pedals vs rack processor depends a lot on what you play and how much use you give to effects in your playing.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Apr 6 2014, 10:41 PM
I'm NOT using an Amp/Head for my tone at all so everything is coming from the ELEVEN RACK and a power amp (Velocity 300). So pedals are more for experimenting and recording and playing around with for me. The ProTone was something I'm very glad to have tried.
The HD500 is a really good way to get tons of NON GAIN based fx in one spot. It can pretty much do everything else so you can get by without a lot of pedals except for maybe an OD/boost?
The Eleven Rack is sooo complete that I don't need a power amp or a guitar cabinet to be honest. I can run direct and get amazing results. Folks using AXE FX units and touring often use the same trick. Toting guitar cabs around is something I don't miss.
Deciding on pedals vs rack processor depends a lot on what you play and how much use you give to effects in your playing.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 7 2014, 10:11 AM
He's got the backdrop, the lighting kit, nice!!Thank you very much Todd
I have a good friend who's a professional film maker owning his personal advertising agency and video/photo studio. I teach him guitar while he takes care of my vids - good deal eh? But having all this stuff in my home is indeed a great advantage because I don't depend on anything else than his expertise.
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 7 2014, 01:46 PM
Today, I shot 2 vids for PRS and I came to the conclusion that the Vox AC15, Suhr Shiba drive and a guitar were pretty much all I need
I have definitely had a lot over the years, for sure!!
I'm definitely along the same lines of thinking as your good self these days though, the simpler the better!
A good point Gab! The only reason I started using Multi FX's instead of my stomps was that I used quite a few different sounds in our Set, sometimes 3 or 4 different ones in one song so it was far easier to program patches rather than trying to adjust pedals during a performance!!
Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Apr 7 2014, 03:14 PM
haha yeah, in this case, I would also use a MultiFx processor. It's so difficult to turn on 3 pedals before the solo!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 8 2014, 07:32 AM
Indeed, it all depends on one's needs, so I think that a rig should definitely be based on what you have to use onstage.
If you are using a lot of weird effects - maybe such as the Muse guy does? - you would need a far more complex rig than just a great amp and a few stomps..
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 9 2014, 02:32 PM
Exactly!! Sometimes not just turning on or off but adjusting the settings too!
If you are using a lot of weird effects - maybe such as the Muse guy does? - you would need a far more complex rig than just a great amp and a few stomps..
I quite agree! I started using the Multi FX's because I might have 4 different sounds in one song. When I play with a friends Blues Band it's pretty much Guitar, Stomps and Amp.
Matt Bellamy (Muse guy!!) has his guitars made by Hugh Manson (http://www.mansonguitars.co.uk/, some just have the circuit boards from Stomps built into them and he has others that have Korg Kaoss Pads (Midi Controller) built in.
You can buy one for about £4500!!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 10 2014, 11:51 AM
You can buy one for about £4500!!
Hehe! I always knew about the Kaoss Pads, but not about the circuit boards from stomps. Matt is certainly one of the most talented musicians of this age and breaking down the traditionalist barriers is surely a great thing to do...but 45oo pounds would be pounding my wallet into oblivion
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 10 2014, 04:48 PM
If you get the chance to see Muse live then I really recommend you do! I first saw them in the early/mid 90's and have seen them quite a few times over the following years. The shows just keep getting bigger and more Theatrical with each tour!!!
I agree, £4500 is quite a chunk of money. Especially as that same money could get me a PRS 513 (my ultimate guitar!!)
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 11 2014, 07:08 AM
I agree, £4500 is quite a chunk of money. Especially as that same money could get me a PRS 513 (my ultimate guitar!!)
Hehe! I missed them in 2007 when they performed here, but I don't plan on missing them again
Now, The 513 is indeed a piece of work! I would like me one of those as well, but since I can only get one PRS for now, I will have to choose wisely and Todd's approach based on, pick whatever feels best for you, regardless of what you had in mind initially, is the approach I am going for this time I was initially aiming for a PRS DC3, but I want to test more of them.
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 11 2014, 12:18 PM
Now, The 513 is indeed a piece of work! I would like me one of those as well, but since I can only get one PRS for now, I will have to choose wisely and Todd's approach based on, pick whatever feels best for you, regardless of what you had in mind initially, is the approach I am going for this time I was initially aiming for a PRS DC3, but I want to test more of them.That's the bast advice for buying any guitar really!!!
I fell in love with the 513 after playing a couple of them when I wrote this http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/index.php/PRS_513_Review
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 12 2014, 09:44 PM
I fell in love with the 513 after playing a couple of them when I wrote this http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/wiki/index.php/PRS_513_Review
Hehe! Glad to hear that more and more people agree
Very nice review man - I just bookmarked it as a reference! Have you reviewed other PRS axes so far?
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 13 2014, 01:34 PM
Very nice review man - I just bookmarked it as a reference! Have you reviewed other PRS axes so far?I have bought a few guitars that weren't exactly what I set out to buy but when I played them they felt right!
My main acoustic is one such purchase. I had the choice of it and 3 other acoustics. The other 3 were all about twice the price and yet this one sounded better unplugged and plugged in. That was 20+ years ago and it's still my main acoustic to this day. It even made me retire my Ovation that I'd been using up to that point!
I've since found out that I paid a lot less that it should have been priced at. It's a Suzuki Nagoya. Nagoya is the factory where Suzuki produce all their top of the range, hand crafted Violins and other Classical Instruments. Once in a while they do a short run of Guitars too.
I haven't actually written any other PRS reveiws although i have tried out and played quite a few different models. It all depends what my friend has in stock in his Shop when I go to visit/do some repairs and set-ups there.
If you want I'll review whatever PRS Stock he has next time I'm there? He usually has a couple of Models and a few SE models in stock.
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 13 2014, 05:53 PM
My main acoustic is one such purchase. I had the choice of it and 3 other acoustics. The other 3 were all about twice the price and yet this one sounded better unplugged and plugged in. That was 20+ years ago and it's still my main acoustic to this day. It even made me retire my Ovation that I'd been using up to that point!
I've since found out that I paid a lot less that it should have been priced at. It's a Suzuki Nagoya. Nagoya is the factory where Suzuki produce all their top of the range, hand crafted Violins and other Classical Instruments. Once in a while they do a short run of Guitars too.
I haven't actually written any other PRS reveiws although i have tried out and played quite a few different models. It all depends what my friend has in stock in his Shop when I go to visit/do some repairs and set-ups there.
If you want I'll review whatever PRS Stock he has next time I'm there? He usually has a couple of Models and a few SE models in stock.
Hehe! It's always like that
The 'ugly ducklings' I would be terribly interested in a few thoughts on the differences on Maryland made PRS guitars - stock ones and Private stock ones Couldn't get my hands on any of those so far... Ever tried any?
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 14 2014, 01:18 PM
The 'ugly ducklings' I would be terribly interested in a few thoughts on the differences on Maryland made PRS guitars - stock ones and Private stock ones Couldn't get my hands on any of those so far... Ever tried any?I have played mainly Stock ones and a couple of Private Stock models. I've not yet had the opportunity to play a Maryland, although that might happen later this year!
I might have a word with my friend and get him to order certain things in the Shop so I can review them. I'd like to get back into writing reviews again, I actually quite enjoy it!!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 15 2014, 06:30 AM
I might have a word with my friend and get him to order certain things in the Shop so I can review them. I'd like to get back into writing reviews again, I actually quite enjoy it!!
It must be amazing to have the opportunity to try private stock models
I mean, here, no one in their right mind would bring in a private stock, because... no one would have the money to buy it. I mean, yeah, people have payed 2000-2500 EUR for a PRS, but 5000? Hmmm, I don't quite think so I have a friend who's a PRS player and also obsessed with owls - I told him that I will get him this guitar, if I will ever become filthy rich:
http://prsguitars.com/privatestock/gallery/great_horned_owl.php
Posted by: Sensible Jones Apr 15 2014, 05:14 PM
I mean, here, no one in their right mind would bring in a private stock, because... no one would have the money to buy it. I mean, yeah, people have payed 2000-2500 EUR for a PRS, but 5000? Hmmm, I don't quite think so I have a friend who's a PRS player and also obsessed with owls - I told him that I will get him this guitar, if I will ever become filthy rich:http://prsguitars.com/privatestock/gallery/great_horned_owl.php
I know what you mean! My friend doesn't get them in that often, maybe 2 or 3 a year. I remember seeing that guitar before, it's a lovely piece of inlay work!!
It reminds me of this one:-
This one was built by Paul himself and was priced at £10,000!
Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Apr 16 2014, 02:21 PM
Holy schmoley I wonder, who is able to build these stunningly beautiful designs into the guitar? Did Paul put the dragon there himself.. or? 2-3 a year is A LOT compared to none/year So, yes, as I said - lucky you
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