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Posted by: Avenite Dec 16 2007, 09:21 AM

I have been trying to speedpick for a while now, and I usually pick using only my wrist (sometimes minimal arm movement) with the pick angled (I could never get far past 90 bpm with 16th notes), but my new teacher told me to use more arm movement up to the elbow, keeping the wrist more or less stationary in relation to the rest of my arm, and to try the pick flat against the string. I can play faster, but less evenly, with less control, and my elbow gets stiff.

I tried watching videos of shredders, including you and Kristofer, along with Rusty Cooley, Paul Gilbert and Michael Angelo Batio, but I am confused as to how to approach all of this.

I would really appreciate help. Thanks

Posted by: Juan M. Valero Dec 16 2007, 10:19 AM

mmm In my opinion the most important is the wrist movement, not the arm one, and it works for me but works also for almost all the shreders... but on the other hand I knew one guitar player that played with the movement of all the arm, and he played really fast, in fact as fast as others that one uses wrist movement so I think both ways would are correct, but I think is easier only the wrist movement...

Posted by: Pavel Dec 16 2007, 10:23 AM

I would say your teacher is wrong and arm movement towards the elbow can get you injuries! It's proven and you should avoid it! A bit of arm movement is ok, we all do it but don't make it your technique. Wrist is the key!

Posted by: Avenite Dec 16 2007, 10:43 AM

Even Batio with with lightning-hand still has a bit of arm movement, mostly from the wrist though. I suppose I should talk to my teacher about this some more.

Posted by: fkalich Dec 16 2007, 11:02 AM

better tell Batio about this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qG74eVb6V10





I missed this. I am just a humble student, what would I know? But I find myself using more of a arm movement on fast AP, wrist slower.

I don't doubt that Pavel is right, and for some people, they might have a problem. But I doubt that is the way it is with everyone. It is like that with all physical activities. Some guys hurt themselves, others do not. Clearly Batio does not. I agree that one should stop this if they detect pain, if that is the case, they may indeed be the ones hurting themselves. I have found advantages in the arm movement, when playing fast.

edit: also one must keep in mind not all of us are metal head bangers or constant zillion note a minute shredders. even if we do use our arm for some things, we may not be doing it with the frequency that others do, because of the style of their play. I have very healthy knees. My friend has had surgery and can't run anymore. I have kept in shape in my life by biking, running, and swimming, not just running. My friend only ran. If I am doing the arm thing, but only about 20% of the time, the effect on the joints is not going to be the same as with a head banger or constant shredder.

Posted by: Pavel Dec 16 2007, 11:03 AM

Batio is the cleanest shredder out there and i wouldn't doubt his technique even a bit.

As i said - a bit of arm movement is good, but DON'T make it like fixed wrist and ONLY elbow/arm picking.

In one of my lessons i talked about picking styles and Batio can not be taken in observation here because his picking approach is totally different. If we are talking about wrist picking than it's the wrist. If we talk about thumb/index picking than it's the whole different story.

Posted by: Avenite Dec 16 2007, 11:08 AM

I had always learned to use the wrist, and to angle the pick.

By the way, I just watched Angel of Death (Slayer) and for the opening riff, they used wider movements than in the shredding solo.

Posted by: fkalich Dec 16 2007, 11:24 AM

when doing this, I like to feel that my movement is sort of floating, relaxed. and I certainly only do it a times, not extended constant periods. I find it has advantages for some things. but for some people, sure, they will ruin their joint or end up muscular/skeleton problems, because of the way they play.

Posted by: Pavel Dec 16 2007, 11:29 AM

You noticed it right - the perfect picking is totally relaxed. In the end it comes to being comfortable or not but forcing stuff by strength is sure not the way to do it.