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Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 02:33 PM

Honestly, this is my biggest nightmare ever.

I bought a great guitar 4-5 years ago (Joe Satriani model JS100) but I had no idea how sorry I would be for doing that. It's definitely one of my biggest mistakes as a guitarist. Actually it IS the biggest mistake I ever made. I spend a good deal of cash for it, and it does sound great but when it comes to changing the strings - it's the worst nightmare ever. At least for me.

I watched a billion videos of tuning this, but they all show how to tune the guitar which is already almost tuned, or if you need to change only one string. I have a situation where I must change all strings and it's HELL to balance out the nut with the springs on the back of the guitar. I wasted so much money, not only on the guitar but also on loads and loads and loads of fine expensive Elixir strings just to break them while trying to tune this and have to start all over.

Yes, I am frustrated because I tried to tune this idiot of a guitar once again after so many years of keeping it in the dust, and guess what? The string popped again. Ground zero again. I want to set this guitar on fire, but then again I'd probably be sorry for doing that.

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 13 2012, 02:43 PM

Well, these things happen, it happened to me as well before, but it's all solvable, and life is short, no need to be frustrated that much about it, it's the truth.

Instead, try to see this as a positive thing, as a change. You can recover that guitar as much as possible and sell it and get a good one, one that you will be happy with. Now you know what you need, perhaps it's time to look for a new one, or used one in good condition.

Posted by: JaxN4 Jan 13 2012, 02:44 PM

Hmm... I don't know much about that particular guitar but the 3 guitars I have all have floyd rose original on them and they are awesome. I actually find them easy and quick to change, i can do a whole set in about 15mins.

The problem must lie in WHY are you breaking a string on a new guitar?

Are you able to sell the guitar and get some if not all of your money back for it?

Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic Jan 13 2012, 02:47 PM

It depends where the breakage happens, if it's on the saddle, it can be grinded out with several swift sweeps with the D string.

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 02:51 PM

It's not new. It's about 5 years old. I wanted to change the strings because they were old. But when I try to tune the strings, the bridge moves toward the neck and then I have to adjust the springs on the back of the guitar and start over. But that detunes the strings again. And then I start everything again, repeat the cycle 4-5 times and eventually, a string breaks...

Posted by: JaxN4 Jan 13 2012, 02:56 PM

Hmm, If the bridge moves towards the neck, too much tension from the strings....

Are you changing the same guage of strings?

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 03:00 PM

Yup, been using the .009 all the time. But I guess I just don't understand Floyd Rose. I just want to sell this guitar so I don't have to look at it ever again.

Posted by: JaxN4 Jan 13 2012, 03:19 PM

Haha, fair enough mate. What do u have in mind as the next purchase?

Posted by: Daniel Realpe Jan 13 2012, 03:41 PM

I hear you, it's a pain to change gauge of strings sometimes,

But I guess the satisfaction of bringing that whammy bar back and forth it's worthed

Try maybe looking for someone to do it for you, those guys that repair guitars are geniuses to do this sort of stuff

Posted by: Giacinto Jan 13 2012, 03:50 PM

yeah, if you paid that much money for it, why not invest a bit more and let a professional look over it?
maybe he can give you some advise and check if something needs to be fixed? can't believe thats normal..

Posted by: Shaolin Jan 13 2012, 03:53 PM

No need, to be so frustrated, mate. Why not bring it to the next guitar shop? Probably won't cost too much money to have the strings changed.

Once it's in tune again I recommend you get a Tremol-No. Easy to install, no modifications on your guitar and you can just simply switch between floating, dive-only and hardtail. So when you have to change strings again, you can just lock that thing; makes it much easier!

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 03:59 PM

Yes, that is the best possible solution, to hand it over to people who know their stuff. I'll have the guys at the guitar shop tune it. Thanks a bunch for all the advice, mates

Haha, I don't know. I still have my current guitar which serves quite well. But whatever I do, I'll stay away from the floating bridge

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Jan 13 2012, 04:36 PM

LOL i feel you, everytime my jackson goes out of tune, i swear my self i will never buy any kind of floyed guitar again

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 04:42 PM

Hahaha, good to know I'm not alone

You know what else happened to me today I bought 2 packs of strings, one for the Floyd Rose guitar and one for my regular guitar. You know you have to clip the ball ends of the strings when you want to put them on Floyd Rose? Well after being annoyed with the FR I went to change strings on my regular guitar (where you DON'T need to clip the ends), but I totally forgot and clipped them too.

So now I'm unable to play anything, because I just disabled two guitars. What an idiot

Posted by: snackajacks Jan 13 2012, 05:09 PM

I did it yesterday on my edge pro on the rg550. js must be the same , if you make sure you have the same
strings then you dont have to adjust the springs.
just leave the bridge hanging there, begin with the biggest strings and go down to the smallest. I find this easier because
the thicker strings can manage to pull the tremolo up better then the thinner. finally when you set them all. grab the string in the middle and pull it up to stretch it, retune. play without locking the strings for half an hour and retune again. lock the strings and fine tune.

If I can help pm !

Grtz Marc

Posted by: edguy Jan 13 2012, 05:21 PM

Hi,

i know you mentioned that you watched couple of videos of a floyd rose setup but i want to recommend another one . Maybe it helps you to understand how a floyd rose works and how easy it is to tune it.

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 13 2012, 05:29 PM

I gave floyd rose up a few years ago and it feels like the best choice for me

Posted by: snackajacks Jan 13 2012, 05:31 PM

don't you miss those awesome scream tones that you can make with it.
I remember the first day I had a floyd. haha trying to scream as high as possible.

Posted by: Alex Feather Jan 13 2012, 05:34 PM

I feel you man! I use to own a few guitars with a floyd rose! Hated it! I ended up blocking this annoying thing! But there is a trick to change strings just change one by one without taking all of them down it should help!

Posted by: edguy Jan 13 2012, 05:40 PM

Or you use a 9 volt battery or a spoon to block the floyd rose system like it is explained in the video i embedded. It works really well. If you are afraid of scratches caused by the spoon you could also use a piece cardboard box. It worked for me aswell!

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 05:46 PM

Thanks a lot for that video mate. I'm trying to tune it with the spoon trick right now. If I don't make it then I'll have it tuned by a pro tomorrow. Will post the results!

Posted by: edguy Jan 13 2012, 05:50 PM

No problem ! just try to be relaxed and don't rush through the process and it will work

Posted by: SirJamsalot Jan 13 2012, 05:51 PM

I hate trem systems in general, for much the same reason, but also because there are only a handful of players that I've heard in my life who can make vibrato with a trem sound good. For the most part, it's used as a trick - look at me, I can sound like a horse... lol. I much prefer the sound of a finger-bent string (strings).

And as you say - break a string on stage, and all your strings go out of tune. Gotta huck your guitar off stage for a replacement to continue the show. I have a Jackson that I'm taking the trem system off and replacing it with a fixed saddle. But it is all personal taste - some people love trems. I just never really got into the sound.

Posted by: Alex Feather Jan 13 2012, 06:05 PM

It is a very cool system and on expensive instruments it's easier to change strings and maintain there is another bridge called wilkinson it works like a floyd rose but easier to deal with
Here is a trick I found online!
One other trick with a Floyd:
String the guitar with the ball end at the tuning peg and have extra string available up there. Every time I broke a string it was broke right at the bridge. You can cut it clean, loosen the nut lock, pull more string down, lock it in, tune it up and run. I've done the whole process in about 2.5 minutes...just let the drums, bass, and singer cook along for a little bit. Probably less time than it takes to slap a new string on a fixed bridge!

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 13 2012, 08:31 PM

I managed to tame the floating bridge a bit by using the trick with the spoon. Broke one more string in the process but at least I got to understand the bridge better. It's still not rock solid and it still manages to detune while playing. It might be because new strings need to stretch (the usual reason), I'll see. Thanks again for all the helpful replies.

I can relate to everything you said here. To each his own... If there are people who can completely tame this beast and play successfully, that's great... I just prefer good ol' fixed bridge.

Posted by: sgarza Jan 13 2012, 09:00 PM

I have similar problems with my Jackson Dinky Dk2, tuning is just a nightmare, but the whammy bar worths it, Every time i pick the guitar i have to fine tune it even if the locks are on. =/

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Jan 13 2012, 10:59 PM

I've had a dean with a floyd for years never had a problem, I've even changed the gauge of the strings and its in D standard tuning. I feel the opposite way. I have 2 Gibsons both with stop-tails. One does decent with staying in tune, but my Les Paul is another story the g-string you bend it or even strum it goes out quicker a sneeze! I love it to death so I'm thinking of changing the tuning pegs out to see if that helps.

Posted by: Nihilist1 Jan 14 2012, 12:02 AM

I was about to suggest the Cardboard Technique. I have been using a FR bridge system for about four years now. I had that problem once. It made me realise that my springs were wound too tight. Give that a go.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 14 2012, 05:19 AM

Save yourself the headache and just set the trem to park at flat. Increase the spring tension til it rests on the body. Done When working with your strings, keep the lock nut at the top of the neck unlocked. Unless you use your wammy a lot. You can just leave it unlocked. I work with alternate tunings so I usually leave the lock nuts loose unless I"m planning on recording some dive bomb trem.

I somehow assumed everyone did this. I use floyd trems and I ALWAYS leave the ball on. IT's just too handy

Posted by: Nihilist1 Jan 14 2012, 09:08 AM

I don't

Then again, I never break strings. I used to when I first started, but ever since I started using Dunlop mediums, I can't seem to break them. I use use the hell out of my tremolo too. Give the strings a chance, they work wonders. I once had a set for eight months because I was using all my money on travel expenses and they still held up!

They withstood me playing Crystal Mountain and Pull the Plug by Death, so you know I had to use that Floyd Rose endlessly which is absolute TORTURE on strings

Posted by: kyldeee Jan 14 2012, 10:08 AM

Dude, I have the same guitar, and I can tell you it was no walk in the park for me either. It took me a lot of elixir strings and blood, sweat and tears to set this bad boy correctly...

And I'm still going to sell it b/c I'm sick of it
I want to be able to change my tuning as I go, and also
I Want a Gibson, so.....

-T

Posted by: edguy Jan 14 2012, 11:58 AM

Hey man,

I feel sorry to hear that you broke one more string. But i'm happy that you got a better understanding about your trem system.

You wrote it still manages to detune while playing. Can you explain me your process of tuning the guitar in detail? Maybe I can help you then better.

You need to tune your guitar first with the headstock tuners while the nut is unlocked. When it's in tune you lock the nut and you will realise that the guitar is little bit out of tuning. Now you have to fine tune the guitar with the little screws on top of your floyd bridge. After that it should be in tune forever

Hope this will help you to get a floyd rose guitar that stays in tune

Posted by: Nihilist1 Jan 14 2012, 12:34 PM

It depends on the type of Floyd Rose. It is also possible that he could need new locks. I just purchased mine this evening since they are almost as old as his, and they are quite worn out. I went to change strings on my Schecter Damien FR two nights ago and I did not have an Allen Wrench that fit, so I decided it was finally time. It is a good idea to change them every couple years if you use it often. I have not had to pull mine out in about two or three months because I typically keep it in D Standard to write metal and I have not been writing much lately. I have been using my Ibanez Artcore AFS75T which has led me to believe that the Bigsby Tremolo system is a beast all its own that I recommend avoiding. They Bigsby tremolo system was a huge disappointment, as I should have stayed with a fixed bridge in this case. At least the Floyd Rose DEFINITELY locks.

Posted by: thefireball Jan 14 2012, 01:16 PM

Hmmmm....I'm slowly learning how my trem works. I have a floating bridge, but have never broke a string while tuning it. I learned to always have 5 strings on the guitar at a time while changing them. This way, you don't lose the tension. I haven't had to take it to the shop in a while. You don't really have to do much setup as long as you stretch the strings out before you move onto the next one. And when fixing intonation, I always detune the string (so the mini-string saddle doesn't pull forward) and then tune it back up to pitch until the intonation is right.

I would recommend you asking the guitar shop guy to let you watch if he can get to it right away. Have him explain it to you. Tell him about your frustration. I guarantee that just having knowledge about how your Floyd system works will give you a huge confidence boost. Kinda hard to explain the thing here...as I am still learning it myself. But I have now changed the strings on my guitar several times by myself ever since I watched these videos.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jan 14 2012, 01:29 PM

[quote name='Dinaga' post='563469' date='Jan 13 2012, 08:31 PM']I managed to tame the floating bridge a bit by using the trick with the spoon. Broke one more string in the process but at least I got to understand the bridge better. It's still not rock solid and it still manages to detune while playing. It might be because new strings need to stretch (the usual reason), I'll see. Thanks again for all the helpful replies.

Posted by: Dinaga Jan 14 2012, 01:39 PM

Yes, that's the point. I learned this a bit too late. When I last changed strings on my FR guitar (and that was years ago, then I put it to dust), I removed all the strings, and started from scratch. That's why the guitar lost the tension, and I had to adjust springs and strings form the beginning. Because I didn't use the spoon/flat object/battery trick to lock the bridge while tuning, I had too many variables and never could get the string/spring ratio I wanted. When I tuned up the lower strings, the upper strings tuned down and vice versa.

But now I followed all the directions in this topic and I think I found the answer to why the guitar is detuning. I didn't lock the nut. I didn't know that part is essential for the FR guitar, as one friend told me you can play FR without a problem without using those locks on the nut. So the only thing left to do is to find those locks, because I didn't use them for a long time...

Well, I guess I did everything you can do wrong on a Floyd Rose. But hey, you can't learn if you don't make mistakes. Failing at something means you won't fail at the same thing again, so it's still positive. Cheers people, thanks so much for everything. You rock.

Posted by: AK Rich Jan 14 2012, 07:36 PM

This is the best video I have found for setting up a floyd rose, I dont have a trem block so I make a temporary block out of a piece of cedar shim stock and block the trem within the trem cavity, block it at ground zero or flat and level with the body, replace all the strings and tune, remove the block, and then adjust the spring tension at the spring anchor back to ground zero if it has changed once you have removed the block. There are 3 parts to this vid series but I think this one is the one you want to check out.



Good luck man! Rich...

Posted by: PosterBoy Jan 15 2012, 07:18 AM

Remember not all Floyd Rose's are equal, there are many licensed ones out there.

Some are using bad quality metal parts, so always go for an original or Gotoh (Suhr and Tyler use Gotoh I believe and I'll trust anything they stake their reputation on)

Posted by: Cosmin Lupu Jan 15 2012, 09:45 AM

Since nowadays, I am not using the floyd in the music I am making, I guess string through body is the best option for me, but still a little vibrato from a normal trem can do me a ton of good

Plus, the floyd is not friendly on country style/ pedal steel bends AT ALL, changing strings/ calibrating the floyd was never that fast and the nastiest, meanest scariest part was ... breaking a string during a gig if you don't have a spare axe waiting right beside you, doom is upon you!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jan 15 2012, 10:20 AM

I just re - read all the posts and I think I get it now. Your not even using the lock nuts, so that's not the problem. It sounds like you pulled all the strings off of a floating trem system without "bracing" the trem and the spring tension got really out of wack. This is actually a somewhat normal response for many floating trem systems (NOT ALL, But Many). The good news is, the fix is simple.

1.)Change one string at a time.

2.)If you want to pull them all off to clean the neck, Brace the Trem.
*(use anything solid that won't damage the guitar to prevent the tremelo bridge from moving forward and adjusting the tension by itself)

Done

That should fix it.

Todd

Posted by: richardb Jan 18 2012, 01:59 AM

its too late now, but maybe you should have replaced all the strings one at a time!

ie if the original strings were s1 s2 s3 s4 s5 s6 and you wanted to replace these by t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 t6

you have to replace one at a time:

start: s1 s2 s3 s4 s5 s6
step1: s1 s2 s3 s4 s5 t6
step2: s1 s2 s3 s4 t5 t6
step3: s1 s2 s3 t4 t5 t6
step4: s1 s2 t3 t4 t5 t6
step5: s1 t2 t3 t4 t5 t6
step6: t1 t2 t3 t4 t5 t6

at each step you'd have to go through the full process of changing that one string which according
to your quote they have explained properly.

its often much easier to modify something than to establish something

all I can say is to maybe try to establish some cheap strings or the original strings, and then to change one at a time
to quality strings, unless as suggested you send it to a guitar shop to restring.

Posted by: Mike RR24 Jan 18 2012, 03:34 AM

Alex I have never thought about that but your right.. have to try that sometime ! -

Posted by: Procyon Jan 31 2012, 10:05 PM

I am a bit late, I know... but I had the same problem for many years. I learned pretty well how to tame the Floyd Rose over the years but I was nerver really satisfied and changing strings still was a pain. But I really love playing with the whammy bar and so I finally found a guitar that uses a completely different approach: it's a Parker Fly (David Walliman uses the same...) and I have to say: I never found something better! The setup is sooo easy and the tuning stays rock solid, changing strings works like a charm. So for me this was such a relief... maybe you should give it a try if you still have troubles...

Posted by: Aven Feb 2 2012, 10:46 PM

Broke two strings on my floyd last night...hate changing those