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GMC Forum _ GMC site feedback & suggestions _ Downloadable Content!
Posted by: Azzaboi Aug 29 2010, 01:41 AM
I love GMC, so many lessons to pick from, so many great instructors and others to learn from... except for one thing, when my internet gets capped (almost always near the end every month) down to dialup speed and I can't hardly view any of the videos and video chat sessions anymore for the rest of the month! 
So on behalf of all the slow capped ISP users on GMC...
I highly suggest for some downloadable content!
It would be great if some lessons are allowed to be downloaded for offline/local viewing? I like to come back and replay some of the lessons I'm currently learning, coming back the following days or even just jumping between pages, I have to re-stream the entire video again. At high speed this is fine, except for eating up bandwidth, but slow speeds this can be painful waiting.
Possible video chat to be saved as well? Miss a video chat lesson time or if the net is going slow and it's not streaming quickly enough to keep up, it would be great to be able to download or fully buffer and recap over a previous lesson. Sure you can't interact with it and get the most out of it, but it would still help a lot!
This would not only beneifit us practicing over and over the same lessons, etc, but also reduce the server load streaming and re-streaming, save bandwidth, etc?
Let me know what you think and if it's a possible option or not,
Cheers
Posted by: Mudbone Aug 29 2010, 02:50 AM
I like the idea, but I actually want whats best for GMC. If it can be done without compromising the business aspect of this site, then I'm all for it. This is one of very few businesses I have come across that isn't constantly trying to screw me over, or trying to sell me rubbish I don't need, and I don't want that to change 
edited for language.
tony - on behalf of the moderating team
Posted by: Azzaboi Aug 29 2010, 03:31 AM
I was thinking just some content would be allowed - maybe for members only to download?
Some videos are already offered free to non-members, water-mark those and offer for download?
You would still need to login to view the tab and the other extras but you wouldn't need to stream down the video each time?
I agree with you Mudbone, you wouldn't want it without some limitations. It might be too much to deal with?
I asked incase someone had a great idea for it.
Posted by: thefireball Aug 29 2010, 04:45 AM
i would like it!
Some videos are already offered free to non-members, water-mark those and offer for download?
You would still need to login to view the tab and the other extras but you wouldn't need to stream down the video each time?
I agree with you Mudbone, you wouldn't want it without some limitations. It might be too much to deal with?
I asked incase someone had a great idea for it.
+1
Posted by: maharzan Aug 29 2010, 07:35 AM
Yea.. at least the backing tracks.. Some mentors aren't active and its not possible to the backing track.
Posted by: Vaidya Aug 29 2010, 08:58 AM
Yes,a great idea.It would be much simpler if you could download the backing tracks.
Posted by: Gitarrero Aug 29 2010, 11:17 AM
I like the idea of the video chats (especially the one on saturday with Todd) being taped and then being available for download. These chats are so great, but I just cannot take part in them every saturday.
I'd also like downloadable BTs, but we had that discussion a couple of times herealready and nothing changed. Good thing that Adrian and Marcus put their BTs up on their boards, I wish other instructors would do that as well.
Posted by: ZakkWylde Aug 29 2010, 11:37 AM
If the lessons become downloadable, they would soon to be found on filesharing sites all over the net which would financially ruin GMC because nobody would subscribe anymore...
Posted by: JkB Aug 29 2010, 11:50 AM
Actually there is a way to download videos as well as backing tracks and i personally download BT in order to record myself or to keep jam tracks that i like. Of course I don't spread these files all over the internet and keep them for myself and i'm don't know if i should post the method right here. You also need to have an active subcription to have access to these files.
That fact that i always could do this is also one of the reason why i never really felt the need to use the forum much ( yea i'm a bit shy... 
)
Maye Kris may even want to fix this but i find it quite handy . Let me know if you want to explain the thing here
Posted by: MigeZ Aug 29 2010, 11:54 AM
Yeah I agree with Zakk. But easily downloadable backing tracks would be a good idea. None of us would share the video lessons illegally but eventually someone would and that would be bad for GMC.
Cheers
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 29 2010, 12:10 PM
GMC isn't so well known and unique, so I don't think that it would have to fear about filesharing sites. In fact there are tons of simple ways to download everything, that the thing about which Zakk is talking, would already be a reality. It isn't so there is no need to worry. I think that the reason behind not allowing downloading is the fact, that now loyal subscribers pay for the access all the time, while they could download the tab+backingtrack, than they could download 100 lessons, and have so much material to work with, that 1 month subscription per year would be more than enough.
Posted by: tonymiro Aug 29 2010, 12:14 PM
Thanks for asking first. Please don't post information on how to do this. Also everyone who does - read the Site's Terms of Use.
tony- on behalf of the moderating team
Posted by: Fusar Aug 29 2010, 03:32 PM
I have the same opinion as most of you guys! It would harm GMC, if every member could download the videos as he wants...it's possible, I know that too, but therefore you have to make an effort ;-)
But I'd like to be able to download backing tracks easily...and yeah, a video chat would be so great! I'm never able to view Todd's chats on Saturday...and Pedja works very regularly on jazz topics in a very structured way, this would be great to have an archive etc.
Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 29 2010, 05:43 PM
So in theory we could just send a message to an instructor asking for all his backing tracks? Where do we draw the line? I mean personally It takes a lot of will and motivation for me to record a video, and having a hard time with school and studying, there are very few times when I have enough energy to record videos etc. When I have to adapt that already rare time to instructors who are sometimes inactive, I really hope the system is going to be changed.
Illegal Redistribution
I understand that being able to download everything would make it easy to share illegally etc. BUT we are already ABLE to do so with the few files that we do have. In other words, this argument is irrelevant. Moreoever, tabs and GuitarPro files are already available for download, so why do we not do the same for backing tracks? What if some nutbag just downloaded all the GP files and redistributed everything on some site? Either the management hasn't considered the similarity between downloadable GP-files and backing tracks and will make it all moderated because of this post, or somebody should start considering this aspect.
People like me find it very hard to adapt their recording rhythm to the availability of instructors all over the world. I think backing tracks should be more accessible, maybe even entire lessons (although these aren't already moderately downloadable).
Posted by: thefireball Aug 29 2010, 09:58 PM
Oh, yeah....I didn't think of that. You have a good point.
Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Aug 29 2010, 10:13 PM
I think Downloadable Content is would destroy GMC really as you'd soon be able to find everything for free on file sharing sites. File sharing is already making many bands split up and costing the Music Industry lots of money. It doesn't impact the Movie and Game industries as much as they are a bit wiser than the people in the music industry. I just think downloadable content is a bad idea. There are of course ways to get the stuff anyway but I shall not be saying how.
Posted by: maharzan Aug 30 2010, 08:55 AM
I don't think worrying too much about illegal distribution is healthy. Its the truth and its bound to happen, no matter what you do. Companies make big softwares, and very next month, its cracked. So, this will go on and on. You can only think of better ways to promote it.. or say sell more so the piracy doesn't bother you. I mean thats what happens in Film industries. They are making billions so if they lose a million, its really not a big deal. People tend to prefer watching movies in theatres than buying DVDs. Come to our streets, you will see every blockbuster movie DVDs pirated. But then does that bother the film producers? I highly doubt.
Comment removed by tony - on behalf of the moderating team. If guys have bad intentions, they can do whatever they can, however they can. As someone said a months subscription is enough to rip off GMC content. The question is, is it worth the pain? I personally don't think so and I don't want to go that route too.
The first time I subscribed to GMC, it was because it was cheap. For 90$/yr (or so), I could enjoy any content any time for the whole year. My personal opinion in all business models has been, offer cheaper price but gather more customers than offer high price and gather few customers. Well there are good sides to both and you may argue with quality, this that.. but frankly, I haven't really seen GMC improving in quality. It has increased in features and what not but quality wise, its probably the same although the membership fee has increased dramatically.
Now, the question about downloadable content is, I think at least backing tracks should be available for paying members. Its not accessible to non paying members anyway. Even if someone really want to put them in torrent, one can easily do it right now.. Just ask for backing tracks and upload them. so, its irrelevant saying it will do this it will do that.
As a member, I just want to be able to grab a backing track of a lesson I like easily and start recording the lesson instead of having to wait for it. I hardly see much activity in the weekend and weekends are my be times to record.
Just my views as a member. Thanks for reading...
Posted by: Mudbone Aug 30 2010, 09:06 AM
But then does that bother the film producers? I highly doubt.Comment removed by tony - on behalf of the moderating team. If guys have bad intentions, they can do whatever they can, however they can. As someone said a months subscription is enough to rip off GMC content. The question is, is it worth the pain? I personally don't think so and I don't want to go that route too.
The first time I subscribed to GMC, it was because it was cheap. For 90$/yr (or so), I could enjoy any content any time for the whole year. My personal opinion in all business models has been, offer cheaper price but gather more customers than offer high price and gather few customers. Well there are good sides to both and you may argue with quality, this that.. but frankly, I haven't really seen GMC improving in quality. It has increased in features and what not but quality wise, its probably the same although the membership fee has increased dramatically.
Now, the question about downloadable content is, I think at least backing tracks should be available for paying members. Its not accessible to non paying members anyway. Even if someone really want to put them in torrent, one can easily do it right now.. Just ask for backing tracks and upload them. so, its irrelevant saying it will do this it will do that.
As a member, I just want to be able to grab a backing track of a lesson I like easily and start recording the lesson instead of having to wait for it. I hardly see much activity in the weekend and weekends are my be times to record.
Just my views as a member. Thanks for reading...
Ninety bucks a year? How do I get in on that? lool
Posted by: maharzan Aug 30 2010, 09:43 AM
haha.. go back 2 years
Posted by: emirb Aug 30 2010, 10:11 AM
+1 on backing tracks.
I pay because I want to support the GMC and not see it disappear from the face of the earth:) I agree that it's not cheap, but quite frankly, Kris needs to pay the instructors too, and we've seen that some of them are disappearing (very unfortunate) from GMC - I wouldn't be surprised that 'income' would be one of the reasons. It's like supporting a good cause I guess hehe.
Posted by: tonymiro Aug 30 2010, 01:13 PM
But then does that bother the film producers? I highly doubt.A bit OT but I'll bite.
Whilst it may happen that does not make it right.
The film industry does worry about piracy a great deal. They've been running anti-pirating adverts for decades and in the UK and USA and actively pursue and prosecute pirates. Film production companies make a substantial part of their income from home DVD sales. One big Hollywood film production company went to the wall very recently despite having a good portfolio of successful major film releases at the theatres. Reason - DVD piracy had eroded its DVD sales so much. So carry on believing that piracy doesn't matter but the reality is rather different.
Posted by: maharzan Aug 30 2010, 01:25 PM
It might be tony.. but really can anyone stop it? I am just arguing that if you search around for other sources of income then piracy really doesn't matter literally. I have a business it does the same thing. I have seen content from my business on illegal downloads but its just so fraction of the price we offer that most people just think its really better to buy than get those illegal downloads. We offer support which is the best part. So, we really don't care about it or even think how to prevent those illegal downloads. It just takes so much time to think and preventing is rather impossible.
So, the reason is if you make $100 and loose $80, it will affect. If you make $1000 and lose $80, it really doesn't make much of a difference. You are still at the advantage of $920 than just $20. Thats my point of view. Probably the example you gave lay in the first category.
We can always debate.. and I like it.. haha.
Posted by: tonymiro Aug 30 2010, 02:51 PM
So, the reason is if you make $100 and loose $80, it will affect. If you make $1000 and lose $80, it really doesn't make much of a difference.
You are still at the advantage of $920 than just $20. Thats my point of view. Probably the example you gave lay in the first category. We can always debate.. and I like it.. haha.
To that micro economic analysis you really should look at the clearing point as well as the volume to sales price. Whilst the clearing point is different from market to market and indeed product to product it is such that wrt film production that the potential lost sales due to piracy for large production houses is such that many cannot achieve clearance for a lot of their portfolio dvd home sales. As that is a significant income stream one has already gone to the wall and others may well follow. Net result for you the consumer is that there will be fewer films made.
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 30 2010, 03:26 PM
So GMC policy is to deliver worse product (without backing tracks for download) in order to decrease it's illegal file sharing? Great idea
Posted by: tonymiro Aug 30 2010, 04:15 PM
Not sure how you get this conclusion as I don't think there has been any thing said here official or otherwise about 'GMC policy'.
Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 30 2010, 04:24 PM
So GMC is delivering the worst product simply because you can't download backing tracks? I have been on GMC for over 3 years, and I have never been able to download a backing track and it hasn't impeded my practing a single bit.
Yes it would be nice, if in a perfect world, we could all download backing tracks and have no risk or loss of business for the site - But honestly its not a huge obstacle to overcome in the first place.
Posted by: maharzan Aug 30 2010, 04:50 PM
It is for me The Uncreator. I asked a backing track from a instructor who isn't active now and I never got it. So, I learnt to rip them off myself.
Anyway, rules are rules, we cannot break them. The only point I am making is if somebody want to share it not that difficult. Why are you guys thinking if its not downloadable it won't be shared illegally? I saw it one of the torrent sites already. I think its not winning on both sides. Like its not being able to prevent illegal downloads plus its not making it easy on the members.
I will call this off. Not useful discussion as Kris has his final say and its his site. I tried suggesting MTP but at last it was cut off. 
Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 30 2010, 05:01 PM
How does this impede your practing? You still have access to the backing track on whatever lesson it is. It may be an inconvenience to some degree but you act as if it completely prevents you from practicing the lesson.
Also, openly admitting to ripping of a GMC instructor probably wasn't a good move on your part.
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 30 2010, 05:15 PM
Never knew worst and worse are the same word.
Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Aug 30 2010, 05:19 PM
They aren't the same word.
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 30 2010, 05:25 PM
Actually I know that, still Uncreator read mine "So GMC policy is to deliver worse product" and answered "So GMC is delivering the worst (...) ?". And mine terribly inappropriate and blatantly cynical post was answer to this smallish misunderstanding.
Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 30 2010, 05:34 PM
If you are wise enough to know the difference between two words, than I can only hope you have the power of inference and are able to look at both words in there context and infer that they are referencing the same thing.
Then again, I can only hope.
So forgive my grammatical errors of mixing the letters "t" and "e", Like I said before, I assume one can infer.
Posted by: Marek Rojewski Aug 30 2010, 05:43 PM
I have no time nor am I willing to waste our precious time on such not important matter. Still I don't think that it is hard to imagine, that multiple times easier access to backing tracks, would make GMC a "better product as a whole". If that statement is true, than the statement that by not granting such access makes the product worser than it could be.
PS: I thought about grammatical error, but assumed that "the" word, before the word "worst" implied usage of the "highest adjective degree" (or whatever is it called properly).
Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Aug 30 2010, 05:54 PM
There is no doubt that having backing tracks available would be better but I wouldn't say it impacts enough to warrant a change. It doesn't in my opinion mean it is a worse product. Like The Uncreator I've been here a long time and never had a problem and would prefer it to be this way unless a way was implemented that couldn't be pirated with ease. There is no doubt of the damage that piracy does. Just look at all the companies going bankrupt and just like Tony said with MGM going. That isn't a small company. They own the James Bond licence and many other huge licenses.
Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 30 2010, 05:55 PM
I agree that its not a necessary discussion.
All I was trying to say is that stating that GMC is delivering a bad product of any kind simply because the BT's aren't downloadable is a bit excessive. And, that I don't think that the lack of the aforementioned is really as troublesome as its being made out to be. I do also agree it would make the "product" better as a whole.
But at the same time I don't think the lack of BT's makes the "product" "more worse" per se, which is what you were trying to say I believe - And which is understandable and a valid point of view.
Posted by: Alexiaden93 Aug 30 2010, 06:38 PM
Awesome burning guys. Still though, file sharing is already possible as we all have access to backing tracks - it's just limited! What if every member on GMC were to fileshare the two or three backings he had? You don't need free access to start piracy, if this is what you're afraid of, you might as well remove indirect access to backing tracks via instructor PM's. Oh wait, then the REC programme goes kaput...
I am fully aware of GMC's concern about piracy. HOWEVER, there must be a faster way to access backing tracks than what is currently happening. File sharing is already possible, and if it hasn't already happened (according to you) then why would it happen if you make it free? Do you only trust active members? In that case, what about a password-protected section with active MTP/REC-using GMC'ers? I would consider that to be a viable option.
Remember, piracy is already possible; expanding the availability of backing tracks won't change this! Downloading lessons may be worse, but then again, that's a matter of luxury, and not necessity (MTP/REC). Make sense? Please read this post of mine if you haven't already done so.
Illegal Redistribution
I understand that being able to download everything would make it easy to share illegally etc. BUT we are already ABLE to do so with the few files that we do have. In other words, this argument is irrelevant. Moreoever, tabs and GuitarPro files are already available for download, so why do we not do the same for backing tracks? What if some nutbag just downloaded all the GP files and redistributed everything on some site? Either the management hasn't considered the similarity between downloadable GP-files and backing tracks and will make it all moderated because of this post, or somebody should start considering this aspect.
People like me find it very hard to adapt their recording rhythm to the availability of instructors all over the world. I think backing tracks should be more accessible, maybe even entire lessons (although these aren't already moderately downloadable).
Posted by: The Uncreator Aug 30 2010, 07:09 PM
I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I feel fairly confident it probably has. Still, REC isn't a wide database of all the lessons - I cannot speak for Kris but if they were all free then a single member could distribute all of them quite easily, and we wouldn't really know it.
So maybe this is less prevention, and more a limitation on the amount of BT and other content distributed through filesharing, torrents etc.
Just some thoughts, like I said, I cannot speak for the man himself.
Posted by: Azzaboi Aug 30 2010, 09:44 PM
Wow ok, I didn't think it was such a big deal...
We all know 'game protections' are just punishment and hassles for those that legally purchase the game (key, online activations, decyptions, requires cd to play, call online support because its not working) rather than leeching and cracking it (one file copy and replaced). Not saying it's right, but it's where the world seems to be heading. All because they where scaried it would be copied and they will lose money, they spend a fortune on trying to protect it, just to have it cracked the next day anyways...
Attempts to 'file share' the GMC forum, all the helpful guitarist and super cool instructors advice! I'm gonna need a bigger hard drive!
Yeah, sure... I guess there will always be priated content, but this website offers something a bit more than that, a service, if people can't see that, well they are missing out big time! That can never be priated.
Even if content leaked, if it was watermarked with GMC and the website URL, just a small part of the big collection, I think it would just become more like free advertising for this great service. If people really wanted to pirate it, no matter the protection or limitations in place, they would find a way and it would of probably been already done?
Posted by: fkalich Aug 30 2010, 10:37 PM
I figure that Kris should do whatever makes sense for him, to maximize his profits.
There is so much good in this site, there is no need to nit pick complaints. I have not been impeded by any restrictions here in any serious way.
Posted by: Azzaboi Aug 30 2010, 11:12 PM
This is by no means a complaint to GMC, it was mearly a suggestion - I respect if it's not an option and I can deal with it. If I have anything to complain about it is the limitations and restrictions of my ISP. I have pretty bad monthly internet caps. Streaming videos gobbles that bandwidth up quickly. Half the month I can't enjoy GMC, which I normally daily visit.
Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 30 2010, 11:29 PM
Wow! What flame war? Goodness folks Easy does it!
if the guys want to make content downloadable, hey great If not, Meh, site still rules. Love it, it's the best out there. Folks that really want to rip content find a way no matter what, you just can't stop it. As my grandfather used to say, "Anything you can't change, embrace it!".
So if it's handy, I'd say yeah, let folks download whatev. It's the community and being able to participate that seems to be the real "value" on the site. It's well worth the price of admission
TOdd
Posted by: thefireball Aug 31 2010, 12:26 AM
I'd like to see Kris' input.
Posted by: maharzan Aug 31 2010, 01:44 AM
Uncreator,
I had no option at that time and I didn't want to wait. Common where else do you have prevented backing tracks ? There are places where after you pay, you can just download backing tracks. The content from the flash player already saves to my hard disk (cache) and its not like I am redistributing so perhaps "ripping" wasn't a good word to use. I just saved the cache files.
Its a problem for me mainly because I have a damn slow internet almost like a dialup and then even loading the flash player (4MB) takes forever or sometimes not at all. If I have a backing track and tab saved, I can definitely learn at my own time even when internet is too slow.
I wish I lived in a country where you have unlimited bandwidth I had a bit of patience. I want things fast esp if I am paying for it.
I like Todd's input. Thats what I was trying to say too. People don't want to change.
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