A great lesson for beginners to learn Chord structure and Theory.



Thge PDF mentioned can be found HERE.


This post has been edited by Sensible Jones: Dec 8 2021, 01:57 PM

That's brilliant Neil, thank you, I just wish he explained in the same video why the Dm Em and Am are called minor chords? Just to make it complete.

I know that it's because the notes are from the D minor, E minor and A minor scales, but for a long long time that eluded me. Maybe he's done another video about the chords? It would go hand in hand with this one don't you think?

Cheers, this will help me a lot

The Dm, Em and Am chords are not from D minor, E minor or A minor scales in this example though. They are just from the C major scale (relative to A minor) here, and he's just using the C major scale as an example, where the chords of the scale are C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, B diminished.

The notes C D E F G A B make up the C major scale, but in those notes you also find the notes of the D minor triad chord - D F A, as well as Em and Am. Root, minor third and fifth is the construction of the minor chord, but it still comes from the C major scale in this example.

As we're overall talking about the notes from the C major scale, and only in the C major scale will you find these three minor chords: Dm, Em and Am In the F major scale (same as D minor) scale the 3 minor chords would be Gm, Am and Dm. And in that same way you can by far and large determine the parent major scale through knowing the three minor chords. For instance in the E major scale, the minor chords are F#m, G#m and C#m and that's unique for that scale

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 8 2021, 09:33 PM

But the notes do occur in those scales don't they? I don't know how to put it in words but I meant that it's called Dm because the notes in that chord come from the Dm scale even though they also appear in the C major scale.

Isn't that where the Dm chord gets its name, from the Dm scale? I know that the notes are in the C major and that he's using C major for the example but at basic level aren't the Dm Em and Am named after their corresponding scales even though the example is C major? If that's wrong, then I'm completely discombobulated

I wouldn't think of the Dm as inherent to the D minor scale, as it can be in many other settings and still be a D minor. The first chord of D dorian is a D minor, but it's a different sounding scale. Same D minor chord is the first chord of D phrygian or D Aeolian. And other more exotic scales with different sounds.

Minor chord comes from having a root, a minor third and a fifth. Playing the first note (root), then 3 half steps (for the minor third) and then add 4 half steps to get the 5th. The important bit is the "minor third".

Major chords are the "opposite". First root, then 4 half steps (major third) and then 3 half steps added to get the fifth.

I wouldn't think of a single triad chord as coming from a specific scale, as it could be in many different scales. It's a minor chord because it has a minor third. And a major chord is a major chord because of the major third It's more about the intervals.

As mentioned, in C major you have C D E F G A B, but you still have the three notes that make up the D minor triad.
In the D minor scale you would have D E F G A Bb C. The difference is the B and Bb, but there's still a D minor chord in either scale.

Here is a good article too: https://www.skoove.com/blog/major-and-minor-chords/

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 8 2021, 10:09 PM

Thanks, I don't think it will ever sink in though.

I think the main take away to think about is that a minor chord is called a minor chord because it has a minor third interval from the root.

And a major chord is called a major chord because it has a major third interval from the root.

That's where I've got it wrong. I thought, (and where I got it from I don't know), that you have a major chord, and all you do to make it a minor chord is to flatten the second note of the chord, the 3rd and that's how I thought it worked.

Well, that process in itself is not "wrong". It does give you the minor chord that way too. But I would think of it as described above with root + minor third interval (3 half steps) for the minor chord and for the major chord it is root + major third (4 half steps). And then of course the fifth, which is the same note for both a major triad and a minor triad, i.e. C major: C E G vs C minor: C Eb G.

I'm sorry if I have caused more confusion. The link from one of the posts above explains it all pretty well, I think.

EDIT: I'm curious if explaining these intervals on a piano would make it easier to understand:



This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 8 2021, 11:15 PM

Thanks Ben,

That makes it more understandable. Major= R 4 3 Minor = R 3 4.

When reading stuff, it would say things like "so that's a third" but it was never an equal amount of semitones which confused my mathematical side, for some reason, my mind was blind to the fact that "third" meant "three notes" (of the scale) not three semitones, now the penny has dropped, I think . Thank you so much. I need to keep on top of this.

Looking at the keyboard and knowing the C major/A minor scale, you "couldn't/shouldn't" play E major chord if you are in the key of C major, or even A minor because it has a G# in it.

I'll keep on looking and working out major and minor triads and how they relate to scales for a while, until it sinks in, then I'll move on.

I think the piano keyboard really helps, much much more than the fretboard.

Thanks again Ben, you're a star

The terminology can be a bit confusing, as 3 semitones = minor third, but 4 semitones = major third. And 5 semitones is a "perfect fourth" and so on. Took me a while to get into my head!

Don't worry about the sheet music here if it's confusing, but it's just a list of the semitone intervals and their names



The words "root, third, fifth" can be a bit confusing, but I think they just cover both versions of the third (minor, major) as an overall term. Since th

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 9 2021, 01:26 PM

Yeah thanks Ben, I always say it's the terminology that throws me. I guess once it's in there is in there it's just taking a long time with me, I think I may have reached a turning point though.

The pack keyboard is my new friend. I might get some of those stickers for mine with the more names on, just for a while.

I'm hoping one day I'll say to myself, "Phil, why couldn't you get it?"

Thank you

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 9 2021, 01:42 PM

I was actually recording a video about the intervals, extensions and so on, but after 9 minutes my cat jumped on the keyboard, so I decided to try again. 9 minutes into the new recording my mom rings my front door bell to give me some things. "I'll be back later", she said. I started recording again and 9 minutes in she rang the door bell again. Gotta try again later.

Sounds like the ancient esoteric circle of 9ths

Arh, you mean the esoteric circle of 9ths like this:

C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C

C as root, 9th of C is a D, 9th of D is an E and so on. Recognize the scale? It's just the C major.

Talking a bit about triads and extensions with explanations on the piano:

But wouldn't it be going up an octave + 1 semitone per note? Or is it okay to just go back to the 1st which wouldn't be the 9th............. would it?

Well, essentially a major 9th and major 2nd is the same note (with an octave between, i.e. D and the D an octave above), and it can get a bit tricky when we use one or the other. Usually for a chord such as C major Add 9 you're called it a 9th no matter where the major 9th is played, even if it's right next the C. Adding the extension (7, 9, 11, 13) implies that we're still playing the 3rd, such as this example:

C D E G
Root, major 2nd/9th, major 3rd, 5th.

Talking about chords with 2nds in them is done in sus-chords, such as Csus2, standing for C suspended 2nd, but in those chords we leave out the major/minor 3rd, and it leaves the chord without any sad/happy-quality to it. Remember, the major/minor 3rd defines whether we call it a major or minor chord - and that they are happy (major) and sad (minor) generally speaking.

In a suspended chord, we leave that 3rd out, so it has no defining major/minor quality. Here's a sus2 and a sus4. Notice they have no 3rd interval:

C D G
Root, major 2nd, fifth.

C F G
Root, perfect 4th, fifth.

In short: extensions add notes to the triad, but these notes can absolutely be played in between root, third, fifth or wherever else. They're just easier to explain and visualize as stacking 3rds upwards, such as in the cycle of thirds.
And sus2 and sus4 chords change the 3rd for either a 2nd or 4th, leaving it with no major or minor feel. But the 2nd and 4th interval are the same notes as a 9th or 11th in itself. I.e. if you say "Csus2" it will mean C D G notes, and saying "C major add 9" would be C D E G

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Dec 9 2021, 04:52 PM

Why is it called "suspended"? Sorry, I'm like a 5 year old why this why that


UPDATE: I wish I'd never looked it up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspended_cho...revious%20chord.

This post has been edited by Phil66: Dec 9 2021, 04:59 PM

Don't be afraid to look or be curious Curiousity only kills the cat, I hear