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Posted by: Victor Simion Nov 30 2021, 04:42 PM

Here is an interesting article about playing fast:

It's a bit long but it's interesting and worth to read it until the end:

https://bulletproofmusician.com/struggling-to-get-a-tricky-passage-up-to-tempo-try-this-clever-practice-technique/?fbclid=IwAR390uyNzFcgERmMG3l4gsGeJCKBalh9KY4pyW5Oa1OapOwAO6esn7T2a9o#continue

Let me know if this approch worked for you to get very fast as a guitar player, or if something else worked for you.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 30 2021, 08:46 PM

I haven't read it yet, I watched the first couple of minutes of the first video by the violin player and he's correct in what he says at 1:40-2:00.

Basically, you'll never learn to run by just walking, one day you have to run and the mechanics of running are different to the mechanics of walking.

We've covered this recently here at GMC but I just can't find the thread at the moment. We spoke about note grouping, bursts and many other things.


For now, watch this video by Troy Stetina below, if you want to go straight to the speed barrier section, click here

https://youtu.be/E85fvgwQxmE


Cheers

Posted by: jstcrsn Nov 30 2021, 10:11 PM

yes, and you should practice both
What we see in video 4, he picks differently fast than when he does slow, when you play slow you need to swing wider to keep the tempo
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Epic-Dorian-Licks/
I think everyone needs to just tremolo pick a single note as fast as they can, that is the speed where notice their hand movement automatically minimizes and that is the speed to work with like the violinist ..

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 1 2021, 02:54 AM

It's important to play with precision IMHO, no matter what speed you are going. Speed is just a byproduct of precision. I have read a lot of stuff and seen a lot of vids about ways to approach it and all of it has at least some merit. Really it just takes time and practice. It can be tedious to slowly march a lick up in speed with a metronome, but sometimes that it what it takes. It's always good to start with just a few notes and later add a few more. Here is an example of starting slow and speeding up. Notice how I pick a bit different at higher speed. less movement. Barely any movement of the pick actually. Also, notice how my hands stay relaxed. that's the big secret. Tension will kill your speed. I worked this lick up to speed in the traditional way, 1 Bpm at a time with my metronome.

Posted by: MonkeyDAthos Dec 1 2021, 03:16 AM

100% with you. I know people who claimed that they could not do 16ths notes at 130bpm, but whenever I would ask them to single note tremolo, they could easily hit a consistente 160-180bpms (16ths notes). They were quite suprised.
The potential is often there, now just have to synch both hands. That's the longest journey.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Dec 1 2021, 10:19 AM

Same as Todd, for me also accuracy is the most important thing, no matter at what speed you play. Playing fast without accuracy it means nothing and also it's what will makes you develop very bad habits. Believe me the most hard thing to do, is to get rid of bad habits and I tell you this from my own experience.

What Darius have learned me and helped me to achieve incredible speeds, was (beside a huge patience) to understand the mechanism behind.

Both types of practicing (slow and fast) are required. When we play slow we change the hand mechanics for the sake of tone. I mean we use a "stiffer" palm to have more control and a more solid tone on each note.
In fast tempo everything works different: our hand mechanics change, accenting change and strength management it also change. That's why I do not totally embrace the sentence that practicing in a slow tempo will make you a master.
The key is to know exactly what you play (and what happens behind) and have the ability to bring it down to any tempo.

When I gradually increase the speed, I release some strength and add thumb + index motion. When I play on low strings I keep a rounded wrist because it helps me to play relaxed (high strings shred demands different approach).
Also it's good to adjust the pick and palm angles to find the setup where you feel that the pick is smoothly crossing between strings.

Also when it's about fast playing, I always make an additional practice with the guitar unplugged. It's the most perfect way to verify yourself how much you control the sound for each note picked. If you will sound good unplugged, be sure that you will sound awesome plugged.

Posted by: PosterBoy Dec 1 2021, 10:45 AM

My problem is always my fretting hand more than my picking hand.
So I've been focusing on lighter fretting and trying to reduce my movement.

I've been working on a run last night where 100bpm seemed to be ok but 105 I fell apart so I gave 100bpm around 10 mins and then started bumping it up by 1 bpm and at the end of my practice 105 was there.
Still along way to go to get to where I want to be but progress is progress!!!

Posted by: Victor Simion Dec 1 2021, 02:13 PM

I think that most of the time you should play as clean and accurate as possible, but from time to time to try and push it beyond your limit.
Also you can try to add some speed burts.

Here I try to play as clean and accurate as possible, I made some exercises using the Chromatic Scales, and I try to emphasize on changing the string and also you can see the exercises in the video and the speed.

Let me know what you think:

Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 1 2021, 03:25 PM

Can you try 110 or higher if you can tremolo pick a single note at the speed , then try two notes rest two notes rest untill you can do two notes every time then the same with 3 notes to 4 and so on.. the resting is important , if you don't rest, your brain can not process your mistake , the chromatic scale victor does in the next video works well (IMO) cause the 4 notes having you change string with a down stroke so you can focus on hitting that downstroke when you work up to the 5th note.. there is a speed range that is easier to work backwards

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Dec 1 2021, 03:35 PM

The very good thing is that you play accurate and I can hear all the notes. That's absolutely awesome!!!

Now, I will tell you what I see wrong in your take.

You take away your left pinky finger too far from fretboard, which is an obstacle to let you reach high speeds.
It doesn't look ok how you switch now from pinky finger to index finger. This issue it's audible in sound on all your ascending runs (even in slow tempo).
Somehow on descending runs you have moments when you manage better this switch between fingers and it become less audible. But that too wide pinky motion will stop you go at higher speeds even on descending runs and at some point it will make you fail the timing.
Believe me, the farther you go with your left pinky finger from fretboard, the harder you will make targeting the fret in a right timing.

If you want to fix this, from my point of view make more stretches exercises and the problem will be solved. Put as target to maximize fingers stretching and minimize the whole pinky finger movement.
Hope my tips will be helpful for you.

Posted by: PosterBoy Dec 1 2021, 05:26 PM

A lot of my issue (and I'm not using it as an excuse as little japanese girls have taken that away from me) is short fingers, especially my pinky, so it's a case of getting the correct hand position and stretch so I don't catch the other strings and can fret the notes cleanly as well as minimising the distance and not having it wave around like a flag.
Chromatics don't have the two tone stretch so I tend to practice the half tone whole tone, whole tone half tone and two whole tone shapes that we have in the scale patterns.

The picking and hand sync side of things is my stronger skill, my legato is atrocious.

Posted by: Victor Simion Dec 1 2021, 06:59 PM

I feel that it's impossible for me to keep the pinky finger closer to the fretboard.
You mentioned some stretching exercises. What exercises?

Posted by: klasaine Dec 1 2021, 07:16 PM

The traditional way that they teach classical guitarists is to practice right up against a wall. You need to block your hand/fingers from lifting up. Seriously, play against a wall for a few months. It works.

*Timing between the notes has to be even too. Not just the first 16th note with the metronome's down beat.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Dec 1 2021, 07:51 PM

Victor, I know very well that "impossible" kind of feeling. I went through that too. But...I know that all the patience and focus that I had to make this work, it helped me to achieve a good playing.

Look, it's not an easy thing and will not happen over night. It's a long term workout but will brings some goods in your further playing.

Here you have some stretching exercises made by Gabriel and Todd.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Practice-tips-warm-up-stretching/

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Dec 1 2021, 10:55 PM

Cool video Victor,

I think your technique is promising as you are clearly paying attention to details! In your case, I would focus on:

1) relaxing and minimizing left-hand finger movements. Your pinky sticks out in a way that would indicate you have been practicing while being tense. Slow down a little and focus on being totally relaxed.

2) Just JSTCRSN said, try to optimize your right-hand movement by playing fast picking on one string only (not necessarily tremolo picking). When you found the right combination of hand/wrist/arm movement - see if you can find a way to 'displace' that movement to the next string.

Personally, I find I need to use the arm to reposition my hand for the next string. Therefore I also practice string traverse with arm movement-only (so basically "lock" the wrist and joint - so that all movement comes from the arm)

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Dec 2 2021, 11:21 AM

I used today's livestream to try clarify what I meant, please see 55:10 here:

Posted by: jstcrsn Dec 2 2021, 10:44 PM

I would make a quick video , but not until this infection on my finger goes away, no one wants to see this, about this video, I think you use your arm like kris says when skipping to next string, my pinky sort of stay high too so I don't think that is a problem, the 110 speed is to slow, your picking hand does not switch into "minimal movement" mode.. can you try the first 8 notes in your pattern and rest ( give your brain time to realize what it did right or wrong).. try this at 125 , let us know what happens
Everyone picks differently so as something that works for them might not work for you, yes there are some general rules that get you going , but this is also part of the process - finding what works best for you.. If you look at Zak Wylde, Paul gilbert, Micheal batio , Guthrie Govan they are all different

Here is some audio

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 3 2021, 01:52 AM

Good point! Everyone is a bit different. I've been watching paul gilbert for so long I can't help but play a bit like him in spots. i noticed his effortles approach similar to yngwie and tried to match that. works for me

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Dec 3 2021, 09:46 AM

Jstcrsn has perfectly right. We are all different and that's why GMC is so awesome. You can hear our stories, what worked for us and make experiments with all our tips. At some point you will find the perfect approach which will work for you.
But keep in mind that at the first try nothing from what we said will work. You will need time to get used with any adjustment.

One more thing but this is just my personal thought. From my point of view, beside a good accuracy and playing fast in a right timing (all the notes should be played with the same length), also the hands position of playing matter (that's why in music school the proper hands position is the first thing that is learned).
If you can play very fast but in a position where your hands looks very tense, you will have the chance to transmit this. We all have and we are aware about our weaknesses but we don't want this to be seen by others.
All those players that were mentioned earlier in topic, they play different but looks effortless.

Posted by: Victor Simion Dec 3 2021, 10:29 AM

Thank you for the tips.
I will make a video when I will get a change at a higher speed playing just a few notes and see how this goes.

As for my flying pinky I noticed that is happening mostly when playing descending chromatic .

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Dec 3 2021, 11:56 AM

On a related note I had not thought of before, it could probably be interested to see a slow motion comparison of one's own slow and fast picking. I know Troy Grady has videos like this for the guests he had on his show, but as we've just established, these things are very individual and sometimes it's not all that easy to see someone else do a specific smaller motion or approach and then apply it to your own picking hand.

I think my phone is capable of recording in 60 frames per second and it might be interesting to do some experiment and see what happens by slowing that footage down Of course a camera with actual slow motion capabilities.

I think my mom's newer Samsung S21 phone can actually do 720p up to 960 frames per second. Might have to borrow that for a few minutes one day she's visiting me.

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Dec 9 2021, 06:09 PM

Borrowed my mom's phone to record some super slow motion shots for a minute while she was visiting me. Done absolutely cold and I want to do some better recordings at some point.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Dec 11 2021, 04:03 AM

Very cool indeed!!! I have seen TROY's vids using slow motion and it's very helpful IMHO. Thanks much for sharing this. I'd have liked to see more of a close up on your hands, your picking hand in particular. But live and learn. I think my phone can do slow mo as well. gonna give it a whirl!!

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Dec 11 2021, 04:09 AM

Yeah, I just did a quick recording. I didn't want to keep her phone for too long as she was only visiting for 10 minutes.