Multiple Takes..is This Cheating? |
..and I wish to record it. My issue is the lesson contains a fast run that I just continue to stumble on 
. If I play the run over and over I can eventually get it.. but nailing it within the context of the song is simply beyond my current ability. I swear if I had nickle for every time I have played this series of notes I could retire. |
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May 1 2010, 07:47 AM
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Well...... if You cant nail it three times in a row - then You just are not able to play it imo. Maybe its a little beyond Your current level? I will suggest to do a "cheat" atm. for the sake of getting a complete take, and then move on to some other lessons and go back to it in a couple of months and have another try. You will for sure nail it with some practice!
 //Staffay --------------------  Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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May 1 2010, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ May 1 2010, 10:00 AM)  Not 100% sure this relates to the topic but here we go: I don't think it's cheating at all - you are just making use of modern technology, you would be a fool if you didn't. (what if we still thought that using an electric guitar/amplifier was cheating?) When I write/record stuff I have the choice between choosing licks which I am comfortable with - and I nail them instantly (but it's ooh so boring), or try to come up with original stuff which I don't stand a chance on even getting down decently (without heaps of practicing and re-recording). In a lot of cases I won't really be able to play my stuff after I have recorded them - so that's when the fun begins: actually trying to learn what I just recorded. I have found that not only does this result in cooler/more original recordings (to me) but it develops my technique and style in a way that I wouldn't have been inspired to do otherwise. Now if you pay a session guitarist to record your stuff and then take credit for it...that's cheating! I agree 101% on this Kris, thats how I work as well. When it comes to be creative, it makes no sense to use a couple of old licks. And as You say, the fun begins really when You are trying to perform that "wring-that-neck" -solo live..... It really improves Your playing. New technology is really wonderful!!! //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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May 1 2010, 11:40 AM
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If you want to master the piece - It's cheating since you're fooling yourself
If you want to make a good recording - Fine, everyone adds whistles and bells, pitch the vocals etc. If you want to put out a tampered recording and then enter a stage to play the same thing live - Good luck to not losing your face!  I'm with Staffy here, you should be able to play it three times with no fails. And if you fail, be able to recover.
-------------------- My bands homepage
All time favourites: B. Streisand - Woman in Love, M. Hopkin - Those were the days, L. Richie - Hello |
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May 1 2010, 01:16 PM
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Since the purpose of the recording is to have a complete take for viewing and enjoyment and not for grading or some kind of guitar exam - that is not cheating at all. Most famous bands record stuff in layers. Its always good to have a complete take and it does sound better, but technology allows you to isolate those hard passages and be able to eventually record them well. So why not. It would be wise to work on that lesson more after you record it and to see WHY is that particular passage hard to play for you and then work on the technique etc to make it easier and be able to play it live.
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Check out my lessons and my instructor board. Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now! |
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May 3 2010, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE (kahall @ May 3 2010, 07:11 AM) I'm never gonna be a playa. Oh well, Hendrix could probably not either play the same thing twice - structured practicing is something on its own and has nothing to do with a performance or improvising, even that its good for gaining the necessary technical skills to be able to speak with Your own voice. I can really see the difference between today and how it was "in the old days", nowadays all focus lies in speed and technical skills rather than playing something musical and unusual. (at least I think so) I guess thats why there aren't so many players with their own voice around as it was 30 years ago. (with the exception of those who still is alive ofc.) //Staffay -------------------- Guitars: Ibanez AM-200, Ibanez GB-10, Fender Stratocaster Classic Player, Warmouth Custom Built, Suhr Classic Strat, Gibson Les Paul Standard 2003, Ibanez steel-string Amps: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Marshall JMP 2103, AER 60 Effects: BOSS DD-20, Danelectro Trans. Overdrive, TC-Electronics G-Major, Dunlop Wah-wah, Original SansAmp, BOSS DD-2 Music by Staffy can be found at: Staffay at MySpace |
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May 3 2010, 01:00 PM
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Hi Gary, Hi GMCers,
Well, interesting topic. I agreed with all of your arguments, good points of view. Anyways, I would like to give my opinion. I don't think it's a matter of cheating or not. I guess the point is getting the lesson in just one take is the hard part of the learning process: (the time consuming) repetition. The benefit is for you! If you practice until you are able to get it in one take, you will be able to play the same stuff (not the lesson, but the scales, techniques, fast runs, etc) live… And this is the ultimate goal for most of us. On the other hand, take a look on this amazing (professional) video. The original sound was recorded in a studio and the guy "pretended" to play over the music track many times until the camera man get the perfect scenes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P_FvWqpCZk And… Is this guy cheating? I guess not! Don't get frustrated, every student feels the same in some lessons. Man, hope you understand my intention is motivating… Cheers. |
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May 11 2010, 11:07 AM
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If you are on the verge of playing a difficult piece you can do multiple takes - why not. If you can pull out a good take out of several, then it may be safe to presume that in some time you will be able to nail it anytime.
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May 18 2010, 06:01 AM
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i agree 100% with kris and staffy, but that's for recording your own stuff.
now if you want to learn a lesson, maybe you should try to get it done at one take, it is part of the learning process to really push yourself to your own limits. i don't remember how to play the solos of my album, so when i play live i have to study them again, recording and creating should be a relaxing, creative non boundaries process, so when i hear my own recordings it is amazing to see how random i was playing that day. anyway, it doesn't even matter if you play the same thing live
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May 19 2010, 12:47 PM
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I'm now very confused with what has been mentioned in this thread, as it can very much lead to developing some bad habits and escape routes.
If you are doing this to be graded in GMC REC etc, then single take would be best until you nail the piece. I have left many lessons in between as I faced similar issues (some I am still working on for the last 6 months .. some techniques .. even for the last 1 year). Yes, that is very frustrating. I sometimes even leave a lesson as I get bored of the melody, which I still cant play at speed. BUT.. I am happy to pass the REC with a score of 7.5 by doing a single take than get a 9 by joining multiple pieces that are played separately. But if this is for any other purpose, (studio recordings, recording something for entertainment, create music videos of cover songs or even to move on over that hurdle) .. then the sense of accomplishment can be achieved by patching some parts together. But that technique and and issue is gonna come and hit you sooner or later in another lesson ... Well, a lot of things come and hit me every 5 minutes  Your case seems a bit different here as till now you have been recording everything in one take and only now have come to this crossroad. All your hard work till now should make you 'eligible' to 'cheat' a little. But a new player reading this thread should definitely not adapt this from day 1, in my opinion. NoSkill gave you a solid tip there .. I should give that a try too.. And now I'll just zip it
This post has been edited by zen: May 19 2010, 12:48 PM -------------------- "If the need is deep, you WILL find a way , if it isn't, you'll find some excuse"
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May 30 2010, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (zen @ May 19 2010, 01:47 PM) I'm now very confused with what has been mentioned in this thread, as it can very much lead to developing some bad habits and escape routes. If you are doing this to be graded in GMC REC etc, then single take would be best until you nail the piece. I have left many lessons in between as I faced similar issues (some I am still working on for the last 6 months .. some techniques .. even for the last 1 year). Yes, that is very frustrating. I sometimes even leave a lesson as I get bored of the melody, which I still cant play at speed. BUT.. I am happy to pass the REC with a score of 7.5 by doing a single take than get a 9 by joining multiple pieces that are played separately. But if this is for any other purpose, (studio recordings, recording something for entertainment, create music videos of cover songs or even to move on over that hurdle) .. then the sense of accomplishment can be achieved by patching some parts together. But that technique and and issue is gonna come and hit you sooner or later in another lesson ... Well, a lot of things come and hit me every 5 minutes Your case seems a bit different here as till now you have been recording everything in one take and only now have come to this crossroad. All your hard work till now should make you 'eligible' to 'cheat' a little. But a new player reading this thread should definitely not adapt this from day 1, in my opinion. NoSkill gave you a solid tip there .. I should give that a try too.. And now I'll just zip it Very good tips man! Regarding REC and generally lessons - you should play them in one take. Instructors do it too when recording. These are lessons with carefully constructed material and length and you should be able to play it in one take. Generally recording multiple takes is reserved for recording your own material/songs etc where you don't have the clear picture in which direction the song will go or need to make sound changes on different parts etc. This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: May 30 2010, 04:37 PM -------------------- For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
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