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GMC Forum _ Collaborations _ Fusion Collaboration

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 13 2009, 10:05 PM

Hello GMC !

Today I present you my first Fusion collaboration. The reason why I named it Fusion is because chord progression (harmony) allows you to blend and mix many different styles , and if you do it well it will sound Jazzy too smile.gif

Tempo for this backing track is 120bpm. Time signature is 4/4.
Chord progression goes like this

/ A min7/ A min7/ A min7/ A min 7/
/ C min7/ C min7/ C min7/ C min7/
/ F# min7/ F#min7/ G7sus4 (F/G)/ G#dim7 (E7b9/G#)/
/ A min7/ A min//


As you see, this chord progression is not diatonic at all times, which means you can't just play one scale and get trough it.
First 4 bars have A min 7 chord, which gives you ability to use A minor pentatonic, A Dorian mode, A natural minor even A harmonic and melodic minor (with care).
Second 4 bars have C min 7 chord, so here we have direct modulation to C minor tonality , where you can play everything you did for A minor now just in C !
Next 2 bars we have F# min7 where the same rules apply as for A and C minor!
Following bar is G7sus4 or F triad with G in the bass. This is Fusion chord used by many artists in fusion genre. It basically comes from C major scale and think of as G mixolydian mode (or C major played from G).
Next bar has G# dim7 or E7b9 with G# in the bass chord. Here you can play diminished 7 arpeggios from G#, B, D and F. If you are looking for ideal scale, here you can use A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E preferably smile.gif
Last two bars have A minor tonality where everything is resolved and now we are back at the beginning !


This collaboration is open to all levels and styles.
Deadline for submitting all takes is 28th of January.

Don't forget you can always play arpeggios, sequence, motive development , repetition, question and answer phrasing, time feel change etc.

You can upload your take http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=23473
I look forward to your takes on this one.

Enjoy the backing !

Pedja


Participants :

1) Tolek - Recorded
2) Velvet Roger - Recorded
3) enforcer- Recorded
4) Marc_Maiden - Can't make it
5) Dexxter - Recroded
6) OrganisedConfusion - Can't make it
7) coffeeman - Recorded
8) berko - Recorded
9) Smells - Recorded
10) Zynex - Recorded
11) Toroso - Recorded
12) wrk - Recorded
13) David Wallimann - Recorded
14) lcsdds - Recorded
15) Ajmurrell - Recorded
16) JamesT - Recorded
17) audiopaal - Recorded
18) Deleted - Recorded
19) Ivan Milenkovic - Recorded
20) Paiva - Recorded
21) Pedja Simovic - Recorded
22) Slammer - Recorded
23) Sondre - Recorded
24) Vasilije Vukmirovic - Recorded
25) Matt23 - Dropped out
26) howermike - Recorded
27) big harry - Recorded
28) Caelumamittendum - Recorded

 Fusion_Collab_backing.mp3 ( 938.78K ) : 572
 

Posted by: Dexxter Jan 13 2009, 10:20 PM

This is going to be interesting smile.gif I'm in!

Posted by: Marc_Maiden Jan 13 2009, 10:21 PM

me me mem em em em ememe !!

Posted by: enforcer Jan 13 2009, 10:36 PM

I don't need to say anything do I ? laugh.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 13 2009, 11:12 PM

I will be a part of this if that is alright?

Posted by: coffeeman Jan 13 2009, 11:20 PM

Count with me Pedja!

Posted by: berko Jan 13 2009, 11:25 PM

Count me too, Pedja!

The backing is really interesting, I love how the tension culminates at the g# diminished chord... This is going to be real challenge for me...

Posted by: Velvet Roger Jan 13 2009, 11:44 PM

Where is my automatic sign-up tongue.gif

I am in of course smile.gif

Btw, I don't see any backings attached to the post, anyone else have to same problem?

Posted by: berko Jan 13 2009, 11:45 PM

@Velvet Roger


I don't understand this either: there is another thread with the same name and with exactly the same content WITH backing attached. I've already signed up there with other people too... Maybe this tread wanted to be the one for the uploads huh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 12:06 AM

You guys are all in !

I will put Tolek and Velvet Roger first as they are signed up for every future collaboration - per request smile.gif

I am uploading backing track here - sorry for the duplicated topic !

Posted by: enforcer Jan 14 2009, 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 14 2009, 01:06 AM) *
You guys are all in !

I will put Tolek and Velvet Roger first as they are signed up for every future collaboration - per request smile.gif

I am uploading backing track here - sorry for the duplicated topic !


Hey!!! I signed for every collab of yours for until the next millenium! You forgot me laugh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 12:15 AM

QUOTE (enforcer @ Jan 14 2009, 12:08 AM) *
Hey!!! I signed for every collab of yours for until the next millenium! You forgot me laugh.gif


3rd spot then !
My bad smile.gif

Posted by: Marc_Maiden Jan 14 2009, 12:50 AM

i call 4th smile.gif

Posted by: Ramiro Delforte Jan 14 2009, 12:55 AM

Really cool backing Pedja!
This will be a nice collab smile.gif

Posted by: Matt23 Jan 14 2009, 09:11 AM

I've never really tried much fusion before so I'm going to give this a shot. Nice backing. smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Marc_Maiden @ Jan 14 2009, 12:50 AM) *
i call 4th smile.gif


Done smile.gif

QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Jan 14 2009, 12:55 AM) *
Really cool backing Pedja!
This will be a nice collab smile.gif


It will be both different and nice wink.gif

QUOTE (Matt23 @ Jan 14 2009, 09:11 AM) *
I've never really tried much fusion before so I'm going to give this a shot. Nice backing. smile.gif


Its never late to try it out, so let me know if you have any questions ok?

Posted by: Zynex Jan 14 2009, 10:19 AM

Niiice Count me in! Sounds very cool Pedja biggrin.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Zynex @ Jan 14 2009, 10:19 AM) *
Niiice Count me in! Sounds very cool Pedja biggrin.gif


Awesome Donny ! smile.gif
Thanks

Posted by: Toroso Jan 14 2009, 10:45 AM

Don't know anything about fusion, but if there is room, I'll give a try. smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 10:48 AM

QUOTE (Toroso @ Jan 14 2009, 10:45 AM) *
Don't know anything about fusion, but if there is room, I'll give a try. smile.gif


Great Toroso, you are in. I look forward to your first fusion solo smile.gif

Posted by: wrk Jan 14 2009, 11:09 AM

I would like to sign up for this one.
This progression will be a challenge. Thanks Pedja !!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 11:10 AM

QUOTE (wrk @ Jan 14 2009, 11:09 AM) *
I would like to sign up for this one.
This progression will be a challenge. Thanks Pedja !!


Beautiful Andy

In last collaboration you mentioned that you want to spice up your playing with Jazz lines and outside approach. This backing track will definitely do the job for things mentioned. Feel free to use chromatic approaches etc wink.gif

Posted by: Tolek Jan 14 2009, 01:29 PM

Thanks for adding me automatically. biggrin.gif I can't listen to the BT now because I' m not at home.

Greeting from school. tongue.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 01:50 PM

QUOTE (Tolek @ Jan 14 2009, 01:29 PM) *
Thanks for adding me automatically. biggrin.gif I can't listen to the BT now because I' m not at home.

Greeting from school. tongue.gif


You welcome man - I had to edit it by the way smile.gif

Let me know how you like it when you get back home wink.gif

Posted by: David Wallimann Jan 14 2009, 02:00 PM

Cool backing track Pedja!
Can I have a spot?
Do we record the lead over one chord progression or can we make it twice as long?
Also, were do we need to post out takes?

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 02:06 PM

QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Jan 14 2009, 02:00 PM) *
Cool backing track Pedja!
Can I have a spot?
Do we record the lead over one chord progression or can we make it twice as long?
Also, were do we need to post out takes?


Sure David!
Its supposed to be student collaboration but I don't mind instructors joining in - as long as you don't mind my comments at the end ? laugh.gif

One time trough only please as if I allow more there will be requests for 25 choruses long solos smile.gif

You can upload your take in the upload thread http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=23473

Thanks David smile.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2009, 02:08 PM

My first bend lasts for 4 times through the backing biggrin.gif I was trying to do a Dazed and Confused laugh.gif

Here is the upload thread David

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=23473

Posted by: Smells Jan 14 2009, 02:11 PM

Didnt notice the double topic and signed up in the other thread, but I see you`ve added me on here smile.gif

I`ll get something together asap, cheers smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Smells @ Jan 14 2009, 02:11 PM) *
Didnt notice the double topic and signed up in the other thread, but I see you`ve added me on here smile.gif

I`ll get something together asap, cheers smile.gif


Sorry about that Chris. You can take that other thread off if you want.
Don't rush with recording there is time until 28th smile.gif
Thanks

Posted by: David Wallimann Jan 14 2009, 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 14 2009, 08:06 AM) *
Sure David!
Its supposed to be student collaboration but I don't mind instructors joining in - as long as you don't mind my comments at the end ? laugh.gif

One time trough only please as if I allow more there will be requests for 25 choruses long solos smile.gif

You can upload your take in the upload thread http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=23473

Thanks David smile.gif


Thanks man!
I'm just a student in this one. I want to improve at this, so please give me comments!
:-)

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 02:08 PM) *
My first bend lasts for 4 times through the backing biggrin.gif I was trying to do a Dazed and Confused laugh.gif



I want to hear your cat running like you promised laugh.gif

QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Jan 14 2009, 02:14 PM) *
Thanks man!
I'm just a student in this one. I want to improve at this, so please give me comments!
:-)


Thank you David smile.gif
This style of music is not easy at all to play nor to connect well between chords. I really like it that you are going for it man. I will do my best with comments, as with everybody else wink.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2009, 02:17 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 14 2009, 01:15 PM) *
I want to hear your cat running like you promised laugh.gif

I did something similar in Jose Mena's collab lol laugh.gif

I loved that backing. I can't wait to hear this backing and the 26th is cool for deadline. I have too many things to do on here lol and it's my birthday soon. sad.gif

Posted by: wrk Jan 14 2009, 02:20 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 02:17 PM) *
... and it's my birthday soon. sad.gif

thats a reason to smile .. smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 02:22 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 02:17 PM) *
I did something similar in Jose Mena's collab lol laugh.gif

I loved that backing. I can't wait to hear this backing and the 26th is cool for deadline. I have too many things to do on here lol and it's my birthday soon. sad.gif


Yeah man thats really awesome ! biggrin.gif

28th is deadline I think ? I just need 48 hours to do comments as I do them all at once, like 9 hours of writing or so wink.gif

Your birthday is gonna rock I can feel it smile.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2009, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (wrk @ Jan 14 2009, 01:20 PM) *
thats a reason to smile .. smile.gif

Not when your 25 laugh.gif

1/4 of a century old sad.gif

Posted by: lcsdds Jan 14 2009, 02:32 PM

Count me in Pedja, but expect A LOT of questions. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 02:35 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 02:26 PM) *
Not when your 25 laugh.gif

1/4 of a century old sad.gif


Aw man don't get me started on that pleaseeeeee biggrin.gif

You know song Don't worry be happy ?
The best song whenever you get your mind trapped in my opinion smile.gif



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 14 2009, 02:32 PM) *
Count me in Pedja, but expect A LOT of questions. biggrin.gif


Awesome Monte !
Questions are good I look forward to them. You can ask them here as there might be members who will also benefit from your questions wink.gif



Edit: I just realized something... Why don't we organize chat later today where you can all ask me questions regarding this collaboration ?
How does that sound guys ?

Posted by: Toroso Jan 14 2009, 02:59 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 08:26 AM) *
Not when your 25 laugh.gif

1/4 of a century old sad.gif



Groan!!! dry.gif You are just getting started son!

Now what's this about hearing your cat run???? huh.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2009, 03:26 PM

QUOTE (Toroso @ Jan 14 2009, 01:59 PM) *
Groan!!! dry.gif You are just getting started son!

Now what's this about hearing your cat run???? huh.gif

I don't have a slide for my guitar so I get my cat to run down the neck when picking.

Posted by: Toroso Jan 14 2009, 03:32 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 09:26 AM) *
I don't have a slide for my guitar so I get my cat to run down the neck when picking.



Ah! Le Gato! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Ajmurrell Jan 14 2009, 03:54 PM

Hey Pedja smile.gif Count me in! Really good backing explanation for what I can play over this, so this will be my first attempt at some fusion!!


Posted by: berko Jan 14 2009, 04:01 PM

QUOTE (Toroso @ Jan 14 2009, 03:32 PM) *
Ah! Le Gato! biggrin.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif I happen to understand Spanish laugh.gif laugh.gif

Btw: Pedja, if you post a thread that you're in chat about this collab (today) I'll definitely try to make some time to pop in smile.gif

Posted by: OrganisedConfusion Jan 14 2009, 04:05 PM

QUOTE (berko @ Jan 14 2009, 03:01 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif I happen to understand Spanish laugh.gif laugh.gif

Btw: Pedja, if you post a thread that you're in chat about this collab (today) I'll definitely try to make some time to pop in smile.gif

What does it mean? smile.gif

Posted by: Toroso Jan 14 2009, 04:19 PM

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 10:05 AM) *
What does it mean? smile.gif


Well, it's actually a hybrid of French and Spanish. Gato is 'cat' in Spanish.

Posted by: JamesT Jan 14 2009, 04:51 PM

I would like to sign up for this one.
Nice backing track!


Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (Ajmurrell @ Jan 14 2009, 03:54 PM) *
Hey Pedja smile.gif Count me in! Really good backing explanation for what I can play over this, so this will be my first attempt at some fusion!!


Hey Adam smile.gif

Thanks for joining us man. I am glad explanations help you, can't wait to hear everybody play over this backing smile.gif


QUOTE (berko @ Jan 14 2009, 04:01 PM) *
Btw: Pedja, if you post a thread that you're in chat about this collab (today) I'll definitely try to make some time to pop in smile.gif


I will do that later tonight Berko - thanks for the tip wink.gif

QUOTE (JamesT @ Jan 14 2009, 04:51 PM) *
I would like to sign up for this one.
Nice backing track!


Thank you James !
You are in smile.gif

Posted by: Tolek Jan 14 2009, 06:50 PM

So, I´m back from school and I must say that your backing is very sweet. biggrin.gif I´ll try to find some cool melodies to it.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 09:31 PM

QUOTE (Tolek @ Jan 14 2009, 06:50 PM) *
So, I´m back from school and I must say that your backing is very sweet. biggrin.gif I´ll try to find some cool melodies to it.


Awesome Tolek
Look forward to it smile.gif

Posted by: audiopaal Jan 14 2009, 10:21 PM

I'll try to come up with something smile.gif
Not exactly a style I'm used to, but I'll give it a shot!
Nice backing smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 14 2009, 11:23 PM

QUOTE (audiopaal @ Jan 14 2009, 10:21 PM) *
I'll try to come up with something smile.gif
Not exactly a style I'm used to, but I'll give it a shot!
Nice backing smile.gif


Awesome smile.gif
I look forward to it wink.gif

Posted by: Deleted Jan 15 2009, 03:01 PM

I would like to signup smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 15 2009, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Deleted @ Jan 15 2009, 03:01 PM) *
I would like to signup smile.gif


Nice to have you with us smile.gif

Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Jan 15 2009, 07:25 PM

Good track, you can play anything over it!
Catchy!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 15 2009, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ Jan 15 2009, 07:25 PM) *
Good track, you can play anything over it!
Catchy!



I agree Vasilije smile.gif


New participants :Ivan Milenkovic and Paiva confirmed their sign up via Chat smile.gif

Posted by: enforcer Jan 15 2009, 10:49 PM

Pedja, I tried somethings over it and its not as easy as it seems. and 14 mesures is really hard to stop biggrin.gif I always tend to feel it like 16 mesures biggrin.gif

Well by tomorrow I think it will be posted laugh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 15 2009, 10:59 PM

QUOTE (enforcer @ Jan 15 2009, 10:49 PM) *
Pedja, I tried somethings over it and its not as easy as it seems. and 14 mesures is really hard to stop biggrin.gif I always tend to feel it like 16 mesures biggrin.gif

Well by tomorrow I think it will be posted laugh.gif



Take your time Can no rush !

I will post couple of my takes tonight. The idea of this collaboration is to get you out of 12 bar blues and inside playing , basically to open up some harmonic possibilities for you guys.

Will let you know when I post my takes, then we can discuss them perhaps in detail - thanks smile.gif

Posted by: enforcer Jan 15 2009, 11:09 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 15 2009, 11:59 PM) *
Take your time Can no rush !

I will post couple of my takes tonight. The idea of this collaboration is to get you out of 12 bar blues and inside playing , basically to open up some harmonic possibilities for you guys.

Will let you know when I post my takes, then we can discuss them perhaps in detail - thanks smile.gif


ok buddy thank you biggrin.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 15 2009, 11:14 PM

QUOTE (enforcer @ Jan 15 2009, 11:09 PM) *
ok buddy thank you biggrin.gif


You welcome buddy smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 16 2009, 06:12 PM

Here is my take guys. I consider it to be between intermediate and advanced. Its very hard to put all your ideas and knowledge in less than 30 second of playing , but I think this solo can tell you a lot melodically and give some ideas for your solos.

smile.gif

 Pedja__s_Fusion_Solo_Improvised.mp3 ( 938.78K ) : 156
 

Posted by: Ajmurrell Jan 16 2009, 06:51 PM

Sounds great Pedja, some great idea's going on there smile.gif

I can improvise over the A minor and Cminor pentatonic areas (Ain't I amazing tongue.gif) but thats where it gets tricky! These are new scales to me, so its just a matter of learning how to make use of them melodically.



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 16 2009, 05:12 PM) *
Here is my take guys. I consider it to be between intermediate and advanced. Its very hard to put all your ideas and knowledge in less than 30 second of playing , but I think this solo can tell you a lot melodically and give some ideas for your solos.

smile.gif


Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 16 2009, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (Ajmurrell @ Jan 16 2009, 06:51 PM) *
Sounds great Pedja, some great idea's going on there smile.gif

I can improvise over the A minor and Cminor pentatonic areas (Ain't I amazing tongue.gif) but thats where it gets tricky! These are new scales to me, so its just a matter of learning how to make use of them melodically.


Thank you Adam, much appreciated smile.gif

This chord progression is tricky compared to all the other collaborations we had on GMC. That is why it will push your limits and I feel you guys will really notice improvement after this collaboration.


By the way, would it help if I did lesson on this exact same solo on GMC ?

Posted by: Paiva Jan 16 2009, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 16 2009, 06:03 PM) *
Thank you Adam, much appreciated smile.gif

This chord progression is tricky compared to all the other collaborations we had on GMC. That is why it will push your limits and I feel you guys will really notice improvement after this collaboration.


By the way, would it help if I did lesson on this exact same solo on GMC ?



That would be cool maybe even a longer solo ( just a bit wink.gif )

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 16 2009, 09:15 PM

QUOTE (Paiva @ Jan 16 2009, 07:56 PM) *
That would be cool maybe even a longer solo ( just a bit wink.gif )


Definitely there will be this solo as lesson. As for longer I might divide the solo into difficulties and record 2 more types over same backing wink.gif

Posted by: Mandos Jan 16 2009, 11:47 PM

Really nice Pedja. I especially liked the last part of the solo. smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 17 2009, 12:19 AM

QUOTE (Mandos @ Jan 16 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Really nice Pedja. I especially liked the last part of the solo. smile.gif


Thank you Mandos smile.gif
Last part is really kind of playing that I like to do all the time - its very common in Jazz music for phrasing and scale choice. Unfortunately I couldn't just do that for the whole solo as the time frame was short, and I had to build into it somehow .
Glad you enjoyed it smile.gif

Posted by: lcsdds Jan 17 2009, 01:53 AM

Pedja,
For the first 2 sections of the backing you say you can use natural minor and dorian modes. Is there a reason you couldn't use Phrygian as well? The way I think of the modes is that you have 3 major modes (Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian) although I know that Mixolydian is dominant 7 chord. Then you have 3 minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian). I think of the Locrian mode as a diminished mode but I am not sure if that is a correct line of thinking. Am I wrong in thinking I can use the phrygian mode over a Min7 chord? Thanks. biggrin.gif

Monte

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 17 2009, 02:33 AM

QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 17 2009, 01:53 AM) *
Pedja,
For the first 2 sections of the backing you say you can use natural minor and dorian modes. Is there a reason you couldn't use Phrygian as well? The way I think of the modes is that you have 3 major modes (Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian) although I know that Mixolydian is dominant 7 chord. Then you have 3 minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian). I think of the Locrian mode as a diminished mode but I am not sure if that is a correct line of thinking. Am I wrong in thinking I can use the phrygian mode over a Min7 chord? Thanks. biggrin.gif

Monte



Monte you can use Phrygian sure , but I didn't recommend it here as harmony has constant structure in it (moving up in minor 3rd then up a tritone etc) . In Fusion music everything is possible. I just figured you guys are more used to using Aeolian and Dorian then Prhygian or Melodic minor scale nor Dorian #4 and Dorian b2 etc

So yeah , in theory anything can happen as long as the scale/mode has 1 b3 5 which is Minor triad in it from root of the scale smile.gif
The interesting part is to take all those scales and devices and make music with it - thats where it gets tricky a bit hehe

Good question tough I enjoyed it smile.gif

Posted by: JamesT Jan 17 2009, 02:40 AM

Funny how we all think of modes differently. ...or at least maybe I think of them differently tongue.gif

For example, when I think of A-Dorian, I think of the key that it would have to be in which is G major (one f# in the scale). This probably goes back to my college days when I studied music theory on the Piano. I forgot, what it's called, but I think it's called the rule of sharps. When you look at the key signiature, you look at the last sharp noted then go 1/2 step up and that's the name of the key. In the key of G, there is only one sharp (f#). The A-Dorian scale only has one sharp (f#), therefore it's in the key of G.

during that same time period, I was also taking guitar lessons from a local pro (good player). He showed me all the modes, but described them as simply the seven related patterns on the guitar neck that when fit together are in the same key.

So using all this data, I then find all of the 7 modes (or note patterns) in G major and when playing in these patterns try to make sure that my licks or runs "resolve" to the 1,,3,5, or 7 of the A minor chord. This keeps it "Dorian". Resolving a phrase to these notes is the hard part for sure, but I do find that you can get away with not resolving a phrase to any particular note as long as it's in the right key.

That's probably not the right way to think about all this but it seems to work or at least my solos end up sounding like they fit into the chord progression. For this collab, I'm hoping to explore this concept a bit and somehow make it all work. It's going to be fun. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 17 2009, 02:54 AM

QUOTE (JamesT @ Jan 17 2009, 02:40 AM) *
Funny how we all think of modes differently. ...or at least maybe I think of them differently tongue.gif

For example, when I think of A-Dorian, I think of the key that it would have to be in which is G major (one f# in the scale). This probably goes back to my college days when I studied music theory on the Piano. I forgot, what it's called, but I think it's called the rule of sharps. When you look at the key signiature, you look at the last sharp noted then go 1/2 step up and that's the name of the key. In the key of G, there is only one sharp (f#). The A-Dorian scale only has one sharp (f#), therefore it's in the key of G.

during that same time period, I was also taking guitar lessons from a local pro (good player). He showed me all the modes, but described them as simply the seven related patterns on the guitar neck that when fit together are in the same key.

So using all this data, I then find all of the 7 modes (or note patterns) in G major and when playing in these patterns try to make sure that my licks or runs "resolve" to the 1,,3,5, or 7 of the A minor chord. This keeps it "Dorian".
Resolving a phrase to these notes is the hard part for sure, but I do find that you can get away with not resolving a phrase to any particular note as long as it's in the right key.

That's probably not the right way to think about all this but it seems to work or at least my solos end up sounding like they fit into the chord progression. For this collab, I'm hoping to explore this concept a bit and somehow make it all work. It's going to be fun. biggrin.gif



Everything until highlighted part was worrying me where you were going with that story smile.gif

Its perfectly OK to think of 7 patterns and relate modes to original major and/or minor scale. That I call first step as you obviously need to know scale of origin before you get to making music with it.
Now second step is isolating specific mode from the scale and studying it as scale itself. This is the part where you (after a while of practicing) forget that A dorian is G major but rather dorian mode on its own. The reason why you do that is because each mode has characteristic notes in it , cadences and ways of creating melodies within it !

So Dorian mode has 1 b3 5 b7 which is Minor 7th chord or just Minor chord (1 b3 5). But then it has a characteristic note which is major 6th (in case of A dorian that would be F# , C dorian A note etc).
By using characteristic note in your soloing you actually describe the sound of mode the best way - along with landing on chord notes of your chord thats played beneath smile.gif

I hope that makes sense.

I like it , we are on the same page here wink.gif

I am very excited about all of your takes guys. I might do couple more takes myself - beginner and a little bit more intermediate. I don't want anybody to think they have to play like Guthrie Govan or Scott Henderson over this. smile.gif

Edit : Typo smile.gif

Posted by: lcsdds Jan 17 2009, 03:00 AM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 17 2009, 02:54 AM) *
I don't want anybody to think they have to play like Guthrie Govan or Scott Henderson over this. smile.gif

That's good cause I was thinking more like Vai or Satch playing a hollowbody!! laugh.gif laugh.gif I'm really excited about this collab. I have never even thought of ATTEMPTING fusion. I'm beginning to really love all the thinking and possibilites that seem to go with playin fusion.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 17 2009, 03:51 AM

QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 17 2009, 03:00 AM) *
That's good cause I was thinking more like Vai or Satch playing a hollowbody!! laugh.gif laugh.gif I'm really excited about this collab. I have never even thought of ATTEMPTING fusion. I'm beginning to really love all the thinking and possibilites that seem to go with playin fusion.

laugh.gif

I enjoy all styles of music but when I hear some awesome harmony with great melodic choices it really makes me smile smile.gif
So for me that Fusion and Jazz - anything in between that ads up to that .

Go for it Monte smile.gif

Posted by: JamesT Jan 17 2009, 03:58 AM

Believe me, I'm very much a newbie at this. And you're going to be able to tell from my take when you hear it. I'm just trying to apply what I know and learn a few things along the way, that's all.

Posted by: Slammer Jan 17 2009, 06:28 AM

Is it too late for me to join...

Sorry... I didn't notice this thread until right now unsure.gif

Posted by: wrk Jan 17 2009, 08:28 AM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 17 2009, 02:33 AM) *
Monte you can use Phrygian sure , but I didn't recommend it here as harmony has constant structure in it (moving up in minor 3rd then up a tritone etc) . ...

That sounds interesting Pedja, but i have a question .. i get that from Am7 -> Cm7 is a minor 3rd step, from Cm7 -> F#m7 is a tritone step, but why this leads to the conclusion that dorian or nat. minor is a better choice then phrygian?

Of course, dorian is a bit more obvious as the each cord is a normal minor 7 chord without extensions (b9), but what is this minor 3rd - tritone structure telling me. Is this a typical cadence or something like that?






Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 17 2009, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (Slammer @ Jan 17 2009, 06:28 AM) *
Is it too late for me to join...

Sorry... I didn't notice this thread until right now unsure.gif


You still have time until 28th of January to submit your take.

I will put you down on the list now smile.gif

QUOTE (wrk @ Jan 17 2009, 08:28 AM) *
That sounds interesting Pedja, but i have a question .. i get that from Am7 -> Cm7 is a minor 3rd step, from Cm7 -> F#m7 is a tritone step, but why this leads to the conclusion that dorian or nat. minor is a better choice then phrygian?

Of course, dorian is a bit more obvious as the each cord is a normal minor 7 chord without extensions (b9), but what is this minor 3rd - tritone structure telling me. Is this a typical cadence or something like that?



Very good question Andy smile.gif

As I mentioned to Monte above, in theory you can really use anything. When I say anything I mean scales/modes that have 1 3 b5 in them which gives you minor triad. Thats why Aeolian, Dorian , Phrygian, Dorian #4, Dorianb2, Harmonic minor 1, Melodic Minor 1, Hungarian minor etc all are the scales that you can use over simple minor chord !

The reason I referenced to Aeolian and Dorian is simply because you will find examples of those scales in Fusion then Phrygian. Check out Mike Stern, John Scofield, Pat Metheny even Michael Brecker.


Don't worry about Minor 7th chord. You can play Harmonic and Melodic minor also over it , even tough you have Major 7th interval there. You just have to pull it off nicely and create interesting melodies with it.
In fact, I may record a solo with melodic minor to show you how it fits great over it !


As far as harmony goes, this is not a specific cadence per say, but I applied some Harmony and Theory rules I learned while ago regarding direct modulation and prepared modulation (at the end wink.gif


Hope that makes sense Andy smile.gif

Posted by: Sondre Jan 18 2009, 09:29 PM

I'd like to join! smile.gif Have started jamming to the backing.

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 18 2009, 11:57 PM

QUOTE (Sondre @ Jan 18 2009, 09:29 PM) *
I'd like to join! smile.gif Have started jamming to the backing.



You are in Sondre !

Have fun with the backing man wink.gif

Posted by: Vasilije Vukmirovic Jan 19 2009, 12:42 AM

I would like to participate

If there is a spot left, Pedja ?

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 19 2009, 12:43 AM

QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ Jan 19 2009, 12:42 AM) *
I would like to participate

If there is a spot left, Pedja ?



Sure Vasilije !

It will be nice to have another instructor with us smile.gif

I will put you down on the list. You have 9 days left to submit your take !

Posted by: Toroso Jan 19 2009, 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 13 2009, 04:05 PM) *
Next bar has G# dim7 or E7b9 with G# in the bass chord. Here you can play diminished 7 arpeggios from G#, B, D and F. If you are looking for ideal scale, here you can use A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E preferably smile.gif


Pedja, are you saying that we could use the intervals of the A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E? Like a mode? huh.gif

Posted by: Tolek Jan 19 2009, 05:36 PM

Pedja! I think this is a good take. You´ve heard that one from yesterday. Some seconds after that, I recorded another one and changed it slightly. If you/somebody else/I find other issues, I´ll post a corrected version. Anyway, here it is:

 TolekFusionSolo.mp3 ( 500.07K ) : 182

 TolekFusionSoloNB.mp3 ( 500.07K ) : 145

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 19 2009, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (Tolek @ Jan 19 2009, 05:36 PM) *
Pedja! I think this is a good take. You´ve heard that one from yesterday. Some seconds after that, I recorded another one and changed it slightly. If you/somebody else/I find other issues, I´ll post a corrected version. Anyway, here it is:

 TolekFusionSolo.mp3 ( 500.07K ) : 182

 TolekFusionSoloNB.mp3 ( 500.07K ) : 145



Tolek !
Thanks for submitting your take man . Are you fully satisfied with it ? If you are , I will add you to the Recorded list , if not do more takes.

Overall really nice note choice but I won't comment on everything now as I don't know if this is your final version wink.gif

QUOTE (Toroso @ Jan 19 2009, 05:20 PM) *
Pedja, are you saying that we could use the intervals of the A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E? Like a mode? huh.gif


Toroso to answer your question here is A harmonic minor : A B C D E F G# A

I was saying that you can use the modes of that scale starting from E and G# which is following :


E F G# A B C D E

and

G# A B C D E F G#


Its entirely up to you how you will mix and match the notes from these modes, as long as you create melody over backing track you have done great work !


Posted by: Tolek Jan 19 2009, 06:39 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 19 2009, 05:53 PM) *
Tolek !
Thanks for submitting your take man . Are you fully satisfied with it ? If you are , I will add you to the Recorded list , if not do more takes.

Overall really nice note choice but I won't comment on everything now as I don't know if this is your final version wink.gif

Don´t add me to the list yet. I just realized that I posted into the wrong topic, sorry. laugh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 19 2009, 07:18 PM

Ok Tolek

Guys I recorded 3 easy takes.

Check them out in upload sections http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=23473&view=findpost&p=322942

Posted by: Matt23 Jan 19 2009, 07:32 PM

I'm sorry Pedja but I'm going to have to drop out this collab. sad.gif I just have too many things to do. I hope you make another collab in the future when I have some more time on my hands. smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 19 2009, 07:33 PM

QUOTE (Matt23 @ Jan 19 2009, 07:32 PM) *
I'm sorry Pedja but I'm going to have to drop out this collab. sad.gif I just have too many things to do. I hope you make another collab in the future when I have some more time on my hands. smile.gif


Matt I am really sorry to hear that, but I respect your decision and there is nothing I can do about that.

There will be collab next month but I have to finish this one before getting to next one smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 21 2009, 01:21 AM

Another member applied and recorded their take.

Thank you howermike !

Posted by: SonofDestiny Jan 21 2009, 12:23 PM

Hey Pedja! I'm not sure whether I will have the time to record a proper take, but if I do, can I be in?

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 21 2009, 01:22 PM

QUOTE (SonofDestiny @ Jan 21 2009, 12:23 PM) *
Hey Pedja! I'm not sure whether I will have the time to record a proper take, but if I do, can I be in?


No problem man smile.gif
If you do it before 28th you are in !

Posted by: big harry Jan 21 2009, 02:01 PM

i think i will give it a try, if there is still space left.......
hope i will get my toneport till friday so that i can do some nice sound

and Pedja this is your risk, you pushed me to sign in biggrin.gif


Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 21 2009, 02:11 PM

QUOTE (big harry @ Jan 21 2009, 02:01 PM) *
i think i will give it a try, if there is still space left.......
hope i will get my toneport till friday so that i can do some nice sound

and Pedja this is your risk, you pushed me to sign in biggrin.gif


You are giving it a go Harry ?

Great !

smile.gif

28th is deadline so try to submit something before then. smile.gif

Posted by: big harry Jan 21 2009, 02:13 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 21 2009, 02:11 PM) *
You are giving it a go Harry ?

Great !

smile.gif

28th is deadline so try to submit something before then. smile.gif


so still 1 week left, fine
lets see what i can do ... huh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 21 2009, 02:18 PM

QUOTE (big harry @ Jan 21 2009, 02:13 PM) *
so still 1 week left, fine
lets see what i can do ... huh.gif


No pressure Harry, if you feel its really really really hard, don't do it smile.gif However, if you feel its within your reach go for it - challenge is always good for improvement !

Posted by: big harry Jan 21 2009, 02:26 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 21 2009, 02:18 PM) *
really really really hard


no it should not so hard Pedja
i guess really really hard is enough cool.gif
its time to start over, not just sitting in the cellar and practice
sometimes is always the first time ....... now i have 3 kids tongue.gif
so it cannot be that difficult playing some fusion....... rolleyes.gif

lets see what we will get .....

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 21 2009, 02:28 PM

QUOTE (big harry @ Jan 21 2009, 02:26 PM) *
no it should not so hard Pedja
i guess really really hard is enough cool.gif
its time to start over, not just sitting in the cellar and practice
sometimes is always the first time ....... now i have 3 kids tongue.gif
so it cannot be that difficult playing some fusion....... rolleyes.gif

lets see what we will get .....



Well said Harry smile.gif
I look forward to it !

Why don't you in the meanwhile post video of your first take you did a week ago ?

Posted by: big harry Jan 21 2009, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 21 2009, 02:28 PM) *
Well said Harry smile.gif
I look forward to it !

Why don't you in the meanwhile post video of your first take you did a week ago ?


you mean that one ?
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=159&showentry=604

i guess its not that good, but ok lets see what some others say huh.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 22 2009, 12:40 PM

Thank you Harry !

Guys you can check out my fusion collaboration solo on the main page now as a lesson.


Here is the link for it http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/fusion-collaboration-solo/

Posted by: Marc_Maiden Jan 24 2009, 05:48 PM

hey pedja, so sorry bro, but my guitar needed to be taken to the shop for emergency repair and i dont know if illl get it back in time to make the deadline, so if i dont make the deadline, dont wait up for me!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 24 2009, 10:04 PM

QUOTE (Marc_Maiden @ Jan 24 2009, 05:48 PM) *
hey pedja, so sorry bro, but my guitar needed to be taken to the shop for emergency repair and i dont know if illl get it back in time to make the deadline, so if i dont make the deadline, dont wait up for me!


Marc no worries man. I hope they fix your guitar well so you can get back to playing wink.gif

Let me know when you get it back !

Thanks

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 25 2009, 06:13 AM

Guys just a quick reminder

3 more days left to submit your takes, here is the list of you who need to submit take :

- Tolek
- Marc_Maiden
- Dexxter
- OrganisedConfusion
- coffeeman
- Zynex
- David Wallimann
- lcsdds
- Ajmurrell
- audiopaal
- Sondre
- Vasilije Vukmirovic
- big harry



If you can't make it just let me know and I will take you off the list.
I would like to thank everybody who has recorded and submitted their take by now. You guys really showed braveness and professionalism to tackle fusion for first time !

Thanks guys smile.gif

Posted by: Ajmurrell Jan 26 2009, 02:51 PM

Posted my upload in the wrong place tongue.gif sorry! Putting it in the right place now.

 fusion_mixdownWBT.mp3 ( 997.58K ) : 128
 fusion_mixdownNOBT.mp3 ( 997.58K ) : 131
 

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 26 2009, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (Ajmurrell @ Jan 26 2009, 02:51 PM) *
Posted my upload in the wrong place tongue.gif sorry! Putting it in the right place now.


Thanks Adam !

Sounds the same like the one you submitted in the upload thread smile.gif

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 29 2009, 02:59 PM

Guys just to let you all know final mix should be posted with comments by Sunday 1st of February.
Thank you all for participating !

Posted by: enforcer Jan 29 2009, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 29 2009, 03:59 PM) *
Guys just to let you all know final mix should be posted with comments by Sunday 1st of February.
Thank you all for participating !


Thank you a lot Pedja, I am looking forward to it!

Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jan 29 2009, 04:15 PM

QUOTE (enforcer @ Jan 29 2009, 03:45 PM) *
Thank you a lot Pedja, I am looking forward to it!


You welcome Can , I am looking forward to it as well smile.gif

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