It's Election Day In The Usa |
|
|
|
|
Nov 7 2010, 07:23 PM
|
|
*Just a quick disclaimer, this will be my last post for a while, as I do not have the time to debate multiple people at once.
Gary, Many Tea Party members called themselves tea baggers before it became widely apparent that it also has a negative connotation, and many embrace the term by affixing tea bags to their hats, so that term is fair game. When I said Palin, O'Donnell and Angle never said anything of substance, is because they never get into specifics. They say they want to cut spending, but never say how. They espouse ideology, but never specify the implementation of such ideology. - Not all tea party members are racists rednecks, but the majority of the ones I have come across in the South are. You live in California, not exactly a bastion of hillbillies. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is right on the border of South Carolina - This is the deep south. The demographics here are a little different than in California. California is multicultural, so people are less likely to be racist. Other than in the heart of Charlotte, there isn't much diversity here. Many southerners have a low opinion of EVERYBODY, included northerners and people from the west coast. Come live here for a few months and I dare you to tell me otherwise. - Tea Party members are pissed that a black man is president, just look at the signs they carry at their rallies, "Down with the Kenyan" "Obama is a foreigner" "No to Kenyan Economics" and so on and so forth. - In America it is totally acceptable to be racist towards Middle Eastern decent. People always joke to Arabs, "You're not gonna blow us up are you?" Or they mock the Arabic language by making guttural sounds. Can you imagine if you walked up to one of your black friends and said, "You're not going to rob me are you?" Or starting to talk in Ebonics? At one of John McCain's rallies someone shouted, "He's a Muslim!" referring to Obama of course. To which McCain replied, "No he isn't, he's a good person." Can't a Muslim be a good person? Just imagine if that guy screamed "Obama's a Jew" You would never hear the end of McCain's apologies. If you decide to answer anything from this post, answer this: Do you think its okay for a Muslim to be president? Then of course, there are the movies and tv shows. For decades Arabs have been vilified and demonized. Check out this video by Jack Shaheen called "Real Bad Arabs" - The Tea Party opposed the whole healthcare bill, which included the parts that were intended to protect children. NOT ONE Tea Party candidate ever argued in favor of fixing things in our healthcare system that were harmful towards children. So, they were against all of it, and were for absolutely none of it. Your use of ad hominem is quite astounding. Just because I have a low opinion of the Tea Party doesn't mean I have a low opinion of everybody. If you want diminish to my arguments you're going to have to find a better of doing it other than just writing me off as person that just hates everybody and everything. Just because I said Tea Party candidates are against laws protecting children doesn't mean I think they're bloodthirsty witches. Again, another overzealous use of ad hominem on your part. I never used the race card with people I disagree with, I called a particular movement racist. This also another use of ad hominem on your part. There may be a few black people in the Tea Party, but I think we can both agree that the vast majority of the Tea Party is white. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is hardly representative of the country as a whole. Well I'm glad we can agree that Palin is lacking intelligence  But she wasn't exactly the greatest governor. She cut and run just after two years in office. When things started to get tough on her she resigned, not something a good leader would do. Plus Alaska is a pretty easy state to run. Only 500,000 people live there and revenue from oil pays for everything. People in Alaska actually get paid by the government to live there. The only thing she had to do was not mess things up, and she couldn't even handle that. She also resigned because the millions shes making now would have conflicted with her role as governor. I'm not knocking her for going for the money, in fact I would probably do the same thing. But is a clear sign she is just after the money and is in no way shape or form fit to be the leader of the free world. The president of the United States MUST know geography, as we have bases and interests all over the world. Bush didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite before the Iraq war, and look how catastrophic that lack of knowledge turned out to be.As far as the deficit, you and I may not be on the same yard line, but we're in the same field, so I don't feel the need to address this. Its funny how your disagreement with me about healthcare actually agrees with what I said. I said our healthcare system ranks lowest in the industrialized world, and you said it ranks 40 out of the total 200 countries in the world, which still makes both of our statements factually correct. This is because not all countries in the world are industrialized. Compared to other advanced countries, we rank close to the bottom. I'm not saying the actual care that administered is bad, I'm talking about the whole system and how effective it is at keep all Americans healthy. Also, you can't dismiss socialized healthcare if its effective. There are many Germans on this website and I'm sure they can tell you that while their healthcare system may not be perfect, it works a lot better than what we got here. I'm quite sure their system is a hybrid of private and social healthcare, if any Germans are reading this, please correct me if I'm wrong. Just because something is socialized doesn't make it bad per se. One more thing, Sharon Angle, the anti-government-healthcare candidate, gets her health care from... are you ready for this... the Federal Employee Health Program, provided courtesy of the Federal Government. The hypocrisy knows no bounds. There were fiscal conservatives that were against the DHS, that is true, but they weren't the Tea Party. (Just to clear something up real quick, my beef isn't with fiscal conservatism, in fact I hold moderate fiscal conservative views.) You know what would save an enormous amount of money by cutting spending? Ending wars, and ending support for Middle Eastern dictators and Israel. This is where I agree with Ron Paul 100%. We will spend less and give no reason for terrorist to come over here and blow things up. But this is something you never hear from conservatives. The ground zero mosque isn't even going to be a mosque, its a cultural center that will have a prayer room. But even if it was a mosque, there is nothing objectionable to having one there. Not all Muslims are terrorists, in fact the vast majority are peaceful people like you or me. Muslim Americans also died in the 9/11 attacks as well, are they less human than everyone else? By telling specific Muslims they can't build a mosque there is accusing them of having ties to terrorists, that is unfair. Anyways Gary, I can tell you spent time doing research into these things, instead of just following what you are told. You and I may have fundamental differences, But I hope you don't take my scorn for the Tea Party as a whole too personally. You seem like a respectable gentleman, hopefully you and will get along in something else we're both passionate about: Guitars QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 7 2010, 11:20 AM)  you can't either you can find an opinion on both sides from something that happened that long ago,but fastforward,was it not the republicans that marched with Martin Luther King Jr.against the democrates,lead by strom thurman--who was a recruter for the kkk in the sixties I didn't say something was false but not say why, i don't know where you're getting that from. What I said isn't opinion, its fact. I said which people belonged to what party, there is nothing opinionated about that. If you read my post closely you would have seen that I mentioned that the Democrats were conservative up until 1964, and those conservatives did include the likes of Strom Thurman. Up until the last two decades, the Republicans were a respectable party, but not anymore. --------------------  He who laughs last thinks slowest. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens Gear: Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic Amps: Mississippi Boom Box Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000 |
 |
 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 8 2010, 02:15 AM
|
|
QUOTE (Mudbone @ Nov 7 2010, 11:56 PM) I don't read too many US based news sites, because I feel they all have a horse in this race, be it liberal or conservative. The few that I do read are pretty much middle of the road, like Newsweek and McClatchy. The international sites I frequent are the British newspapers The Guardian and The Telegraph and also the BBC. Every now and then I read news on the Canadian CBC. Mudbone---please feel free to p.m. any links where you get your info I will read with an open mind , but realize that i have been a registered independant for ten years and lean a lot towards liberterian moto "When in doubt-side towards freedom".I am not interested in someones opinion,i like just the fax maam ,such as ,a reason Obama concerns me is that he said that if we don't pass his stimulus that unemployement will rise above 9 and if we do pass it it will stay under 8. remember the facts ,so why has he not been made to answer this question as unemployement has been around 10 percent .also there is still , 400 billion in the stimulus not spent , seeing how every dollar the government spends 40 percent is borrowed -from my kids and yours and still from the white house----nothing and i think this is what the elections were about i did not vote republican for there past plans i voted for new republicans with the message to bring this government spending to a halt, and if they don't , i will vote them out . my plan is to keep changing government till they get the idea In a earlier thread you said that there will never be a perfect health care system and you are right , but that does not make it right to take costitutional freedoms away from people to do it i encourage you -if you do have an open mind to visit http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?page=New...news_iv_ctrl=-1 as this is the only way to get the power away from washington and deliver it back to the people where it belongs peace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 8 2010, 05:00 AM
|
|
All I have to say is Socialism and it's cousins. It works, look at Norway.. Nuff said. Also don't worry I wont use nazi germany even if they had a excel- *rest of comment removed due to PC liberals controlling the interwebs*.. But ya, Liberals, republicans.. They are both utterly backwards and awkward as *Insert rude word*. But again, these americans are so whiny about their taxes.. No taxes eh? Well that just means a few people will live filthy rich and the rest on the streets. But thats aaawright! Because thats the way of nature.. Evolution eh? Also inb4 the whole "YOU DONT UNDERSTAND" It is 5 at night here and I am feeling silly.. Oh and I like high taxes. :3
QUOTE (Mudbone @ Nov 7 2010, 08:23 PM) *Just a quick disclaimer, this will be my last post for a while, as I do not have the time to debate multiple people at once. Gary, Many Tea Party members called themselves tea baggers before it became widely apparent that it also has a negative connotation, and many embrace the term by affixing tea bags to their hats, so that term is fair game. When I said Palin, O'Donnell and Angle never said anything of substance, is because they never get into specifics. They say they want to cut spending, but never say how. They espouse ideology, but never specify the implementation of such ideology. - Not all tea party members are racists rednecks, but the majority of the ones I have come across in the South are. You live in California, not exactly a bastion of hillbillies. I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is right on the border of South Carolina - This is the deep south. The demographics here are a little different than in California. California is multicultural, so people are less likely to be racist. Other than in the heart of Charlotte, there isn't much diversity here. Many southerners have a low opinion of EVERYBODY, included northerners and people from the west coast. Come live here for a few months and I dare you to tell me otherwise. - Tea Party members are pissed that a black man is president, just look at the signs they carry at their rallies, "Down with the Kenyan" "Obama is a foreigner" "No to Kenyan Economics" and so on and so forth. - In America it is totally acceptable to be racist towards Middle Eastern decent. People always joke to Arabs, "You're not gonna blow us up are you?" Or they mock the Arabic language by making guttural sounds. Can you imagine if you walked up to one of your black friends and said, "You're not going to rob me are you?" Or starting to talk in Ebonics? At one of John McCain's rallies someone shouted, "He's a Muslim!" referring to Obama of course. To which McCain replied, "No he isn't, he's a good person." Can't a Muslim be a good person? Just imagine if that guy screamed "Obama's a Jew" You would never hear the end of McCain's apologies. If you decide to answer anything from this post, answer this: Do you think its okay for a Muslim to be president? Then of course, there are the movies and tv shows. For decades Arabs have been vilified and demonized. Check out this video by Jack Shaheen called "Real Bad Arabs" - The Tea Party opposed the whole healthcare bill, which included the parts that were intended to protect children. NOT ONE Tea Party candidate ever argued in favor of fixing things in our healthcare system that were harmful towards children. So, they were against all of it, and were for absolutely none of it. Your use of ad hominem is quite astounding. Just because I have a low opinion of the Tea Party doesn't mean I have a low opinion of everybody. If you want diminish to my arguments you're going to have to find a better of doing it other than just writing me off as person that just hates everybody and everything. Just because I said Tea Party candidates are against laws protecting children doesn't mean I think they're bloodthirsty witches. Again, another overzealous use of ad hominem on your part. I never used the race card with people I disagree with, I called a particular movement racist. This also another use of ad hominem on your part. There may be a few black people in the Tea Party, but I think we can both agree that the vast majority of the Tea Party is white. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is hardly representative of the country as a whole. Well I'm glad we can agree that Palin is lacking intelligence But she wasn't exactly the greatest governor. She cut and run just after two years in office. When things started to get tough on her she resigned, not something a good leader would do. Plus Alaska is a pretty easy state to run. Only 500,000 people live there and revenue from oil pays for everything. People in Alaska actually get paid by the government to live there. The only thing she had to do was not mess things up, and she couldn't even handle that. She also resigned because the millions shes making now would have conflicted with her role as governor. I'm not knocking her for going for the money, in fact I would probably do the same thing. But is a clear sign she is just after the money and is in no way shape or form fit to be the leader of the free world. The president of the United States MUST know geography, as we have bases and interests all over the world. Bush didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite before the Iraq war, and look how catastrophic that lack of knowledge turned out to be.As far as the deficit, you and I may not be on the same yard line, but we're in the same field, so I don't feel the need to address this. Its funny how your disagreement with me about healthcare actually agrees with what I said. I said our healthcare system ranks lowest in the industrialized world, and you said it ranks 40 out of the total 200 countries in the world, which still makes both of our statements factually correct. This is because not all countries in the world are industrialized. Compared to other advanced countries, we rank close to the bottom. I'm not saying the actual care that administered is bad, I'm talking about the whole system and how effective it is at keep all Americans healthy. Also, you can't dismiss socialized healthcare if its effective. There are many Germans on this website and I'm sure they can tell you that while their healthcare system may not be perfect, it works a lot better than what we got here. I'm quite sure their system is a hybrid of private and social healthcare, if any Germans are reading this, please correct me if I'm wrong. Just because something is socialized doesn't make it bad per se. One more thing, Sharon Angle, the anti-government-healthcare candidate, gets her health care from... are you ready for this... the Federal Employee Health Program, provided courtesy of the Federal Government. The hypocrisy knows no bounds. There were fiscal conservatives that were against the DHS, that is true, but they weren't the Tea Party. (Just to clear something up real quick, my beef isn't with fiscal conservatism, in fact I hold moderate fiscal conservative views.) You know what would save an enormous amount of money by cutting spending? Ending wars, and ending support for Middle Eastern dictators and Israel. This is where I agree with Ron Paul 100%. We will spend less and give no reason for terrorist to come over here and blow things up. But this is something you never hear from conservatives. The ground zero mosque isn't even going to be a mosque, its a cultural center that will have a prayer room. But even if it was a mosque, there is nothing objectionable to having one there. Not all Muslims are terrorists, in fact the vast majority are peaceful people like you or me. Muslim Americans also died in the 9/11 attacks as well, are they less human than everyone else? By telling specific Muslims they can't build a mosque there is accusing them of having ties to terrorists, that is unfair. Anyways Gary, I can tell you spent time doing research into these things, instead of just following what you are told. You and I may have fundamental differences, But I hope you don't take my scorn for the Tea Party as a whole too personally. You seem like a respectable gentleman, hopefully you and will get along in something else we're both passionate about: Guitars I didn't say something was false but not say why, i don't know where you're getting that from. What I said isn't opinion, its fact. I said which people belonged to what party, there is nothing opinionated about that. If you read my post closely you would have seen that I mentioned that the Democrats were conservative up until 1964, and those conservatives did include the likes of Strom Thurman. Up until the last two decades, the Republicans were a respectable party, but not anymore. I'm not German, but Norway is a Socio-Liberal heaven when it comes to healthcare :3. Why socialized healthcare isn't a must have for any industrialized country by now is beyond me. This post has been edited by Karl-ss: Nov 8 2010, 04:56 AM -------------------- METAL UP YOURS!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Nov 8 2010, 07:23 AM
|
|
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Nov 8 2010, 12:46 AM) Wow. What a thread eh? I must say that for me the whole thing boils down to the fact that we have 10 percent long term unemployment and 2 percent forward looking growth and a massive debt load that we can't sustain. Being a libertarian I've got issues with just about every "party" but that's neither here nor there. Bottom line, we have got to do things that are not pretty 1.)Raise Taxes (I HATE this idea but we have to pay for 2 wars and and service our massive debt with something?) 2.)Lower Spending ( I HATE this idea too as I like several programs like student loans and health care so cutting is not a fun option but we have no choice) 3.)Increase nominal Growth (We can't sustain our way of life on 2 percent annual growth. Just can't) All "Party Politics" aside, these are just fiscal realities that are ugly and not politically attractive to any candidate. There is not a lot of political will to talk about fixing the structural issues we face. It all gets lost in a haze of partisan politics. Now the congress is split so the next two years are a wash. So we are at a dead stop on "recovery" for the next couple of years. Until then we are going to have to just fake it until we can see which direction the country goes in terms of policy and politics after the 2012 Election. But the Doomsayers are convinced none of this will matter after that date anyway as the Asteroid/Galactic Alignment/Solar Max Flares/ Etc. are going to cause global armageddon and our problems will seem kinda small. Todd Finally, a voice of reason Todd, you're awesome dude, you nailed it. Sometimes reality is a hard pill to swallow. Nobody wants to pay more taxes - I certainly don't - but these two wars that have cost more than a trillion dollars have to be paid for.QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 7 2010, 08:15 PM) Mudbone---please feel free to p.m. any links where you get your info I will read with an open mind , but realize that i have been a registered independant for ten years and lean a lot towards liberterian moto "When in doubt-side towards freedom".I am not interested in someones opinion,i like just the fax maam ,such as ,a reason Obama concerns me is that he said that if we don't pass his stimulus that unemployement will rise above 9 and if we do pass it it will stay under 8. remember the facts ,so why has he not been made to answer this question as unemployement has been around 10 percent .also there is still , 400 billion in the stimulus not spent , seeing how every dollar the government spends 40 percent is borrowed -from my kids and yours and still from the white house----nothing and i think this is what the elections were about i did not vote republican for there past plans i voted for new republicans with the message to bring this government spending to a halt, and if they don't , i will vote them out . my plan is to keep changing government till they get the idea In a earlier thread you said that there will never be a perfect health care system and you are right , but that does not make it right to take costitutional freedoms away from people to do it i encourage you -if you do have an open mind to visit http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?page=New...news_iv_ctrl=-1 as this is the only way to get the power away from washington and deliver it back to the people where it belongs peace Is there anything specific you would like to me to send you? I'm glad you're an independent and not aligned to any particular party or ideology, that leaves you free to choose your own ideology, instead of being coerced into believing a certain ideology. No ideology is one hundred percent correct, and being independent allows you to pick and choose what you think is right. -------------------- He who laughs last thinks slowest. "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens Gear: Guitars: Uncle Rufus' Twanger Classic Amps: Mississippi Boom Box Mojo: Hammer of Odin and a pair of Ox gonads Inspiration: Samuel Adams Boston Lager Zero to Hero: 1,387/10,000 |
|
|
|
|
), but I guess IMPORTANT to watch for Americans!
 
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
