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GMC Forum _ Collaborations _ Straight Vs Syncopated Soloing
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 19 2009, 03:14 PM
You can upload your takes here.
For more info about this collaboration go http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=27552
Posted by: Caelumamittendum May 19 2009, 05:18 PM
Not sure if this is quite how you want it, but you can use it if you want.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 19 2009, 06:12 PM
Sound was very interesting !
I like what was happening 3/4 of a solo. Towards the ending phrasing was behind the beat and weak. If you record it one more time same thing it would be spot on. Thanks Ben !
Posted by: Jesse May 19 2009, 07:39 PM
Cael... what the heck .. you're fast:D
Posted by: Caelumamittendum May 19 2009, 07:55 PM
Not really in the mood for collabs, to be honest, or rather spend a lot of time on them, these days, but just decided to do a quick improv on it.
Posted by: kjutte May 20 2009, 12:38 AM
Here's my take, Pedja!
Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic May 20 2009, 10:49 AM
Great jazzy playing guys! Sounds very interesting melody and rhythm wise!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 20 2009, 12:53 PM
Cool take Kjutte!
I like melodic choice, like I told you before sounds like Gypsy Jazz with approach patterns and trills
Rhythm wise its 90% or more syncopated rhythm. I would like to hear more straight rhythm in there if possible, for purpose of learning. Let me know if you want to record another one or keep this one.
Posted by: kjutte May 21 2009, 03:42 AM
I like melodic choice, like I told you before sounds like Gypsy Jazz with approach patterns and trills
Rhythm wise its 90% or more syncopated rhythm. I would like to hear more straight rhythm in there if possible, for purpose of learning. Let me know if you want to record another one or keep this one.
I am gonna keep it, man. 90% is good because I have always played straight rhythm in the past!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 21 2009, 02:42 PM
Ok kjutte, I will make comments about it when I publish final mix but you already know there is a lot of syncopated rhythm and very little straight in here so that will be in comments as well
Posted by: Ivan Milenkovic May 22 2009, 08:49 AM
kjutte this sounds extra cool man, I wasn't aware of your softer side
Very nice and smooth playing.
Posted by: kaznie_NL May 22 2009, 06:28 PM
would something like this be ok? It's no final take 
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 22 2009, 07:43 PM
Excellent Kaz !
Very nice mixture of both straight and syncopated rhythm I like it man.
You can drop gain a bit and work on that last section rhythm went off a bit there. Everything else was very good man
Posted by: kaznie_NL May 22 2009, 10:13 PM
Very nice mixture of both straight and syncopated rhythm I like it man.
You can drop gain a bit and work on that last section rhythm went off a bit there. Everything else was very good man
Great! I'll get on it!
Posted by: sted May 23 2009, 12:29 PM
Heres my effort, if i get time I may have another stab, interesting little collab this actually, got me thinking!! 
straight_v_sync_WBT.mp3 ( 523.69K )
: 217
straight_v_sync_WOBT.mp3 ( 523.69K )
: 202
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 23 2009, 12:31 PM
Look forward to it Kaz !
straight_v_sync_WBT.mp3 ( 523.69K )
: 217
straight_v_sync_WOBT.mp3 ( 523.69K )
: 202Very nice effort Sted !
It has both types of rhythms in there. If you get chance for more takes try to put more down beat rhythm as this one has more syncopated.
Overall I am pleased with this, good job !!!
Posted by: kaznie_NL May 23 2009, 01:16 PM
Finito, doens't even sound like my first take I even used an.... Arpeggio!!! First three notes
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 23 2009, 02:17 PM
I even used an.... Arpeggio!!! First three notes Nice sound Kaz !
Well done man
Posted by: jdriver May 24 2009, 08:25 AM
This is about as syncopated as you can get. Let me know if this will do and I'll split the files. I probably could squeeze in a little more travel if I wasn't tired.
sync_collab.mp3 ( 709.81K )
: 232
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 24 2009, 02:09 PM
sync_collab.mp3 ( 709.81K )
: 232Jeff this is really syncopated !
You definitely did great job with syncopated rhythm. I was looking for both syncopated and straight rhythm soloing.
See if you can submit another take that includes regular rhythm as well !
Posted by: Velvet Roger May 24 2009, 07:10 PM
Hey Pedja,
Here is my take. Good that I had my acoustic with me on holidays to find some melodic ideas already .
Tried to frequently change between syncopated and some straight passages and hopefully I succeeded in it .
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 24 2009, 07:43 PM
Here is my take. Good that I had my acoustic with me on holidays to find some melodic ideas already
.Tried to frequently change between syncopated and some straight passages and hopefully I succeeded in it
.Very nice Roger, this can definitely work man !
Posted by: Velvet Roger May 24 2009, 09:40 PM
Nice, was fun recording this one
Posted by: jdriver May 25 2009, 06:34 AM
You definitely did great job with syncopated rhythm. I was looking for both syncopated and straight rhythm soloing.
See if you can submit another take that includes regular rhythm as well !
I'll work on it, but I'm really liking that take for my own reasons.. sounds like I'm actually playing Jazz! That little bend at the end is nice.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 25 2009, 10:26 AM
You are right
The more syncopated, the more Jazz feel it adds to the solo.
Posted by: kjutte May 25 2009, 12:26 PM
Very nice and smooth playing.Thanks alot man, I appreciate it!
It's composed though, not improv :/
Posted by: wrk May 26 2009, 08:50 AM
Hi Pedja,
As i told you, i was not with my guitars for a few days and had finally the chance last night to jam to you backing. I came up with this first take, basically improvised.
I hope i balanced enough syncopated and straight rhythms to each other(?)
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_wbt_01.mp3 ( 867K )
: 170
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_nbt_01.mp3 ( 785.63K )
: 151
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 09:29 AM
As i told you, i was not with my guitars for a few days and had finally the chance last night to jam to you backing. I came up with this first take, basically improvised.
I hope i balanced enough syncopated and straight rhythms to each other(?)
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_wbt_01.mp3 ( 867K )
: 170
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_nbt_01.mp3 ( 785.63K )
: 151Hi Andy,
This was very melodic take but also very syncopated take. There were hardly any downbeat type rhythms.
I know that this backing has huge and I mean huge tendency to pull everybody to do syncopated soloing, but you can still try to keep some straight soloing in there
I will post my take within an hour so you can hear what I am talking about
Posted by: wrk May 26 2009, 09:51 AM
This was very melodic take but also very syncopated take. There were hardly any downbeat type rhythms.
I know that this backing has huge and I mean huge tendency to pull everybody to do syncopated soloing, but you can still try to keep some straight soloing in there
I will post my take within an hour so you can hear what I am talking about
Thanks Pedja. Thats true, syncopated rhythms come easy to this backing. I thought i mixed syncopated and straight notes. Not as long sequences, but notes to each other .. i'm looking forward to your take, will be interesting to see how you do it !!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 11:09 AM
Here is my take guys hope you like it !
Posted by: kjutte May 26 2009, 11:19 AM
Really cool, Pedja! Phrasing lessons!!!!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 11:28 AM
Thanks a lot Kjutte ! Phrasing lessons... Every collaboration solo is phrasing lesson ?
Posted by: Oxac May 26 2009, 12:42 PM
Taken down for revision.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 12:46 PM
I like melodic approach you took here Oxac !
Rhythm and phrasing was either rushed or behind. Did you compose it or it was improvised?
Record another one because phrasing is all over the place (ahead and behind the beat)
Posted by: Oxac May 26 2009, 12:49 PM
Hmm, I think it has to do with me not knowing how to disable the metronome in Logic >.<
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 12:56 PM
I know you can play in time this is why I was surprised to hear this on and off phrasing !
I dont use Logic but perhaps somebody who uses it could help with that?
Look under options disable metronome
Sounds easy hehe
Posted by: Oxac May 26 2009, 01:50 PM
No, the metronome wasn't the only problem. Someone here needs to work on his timing appearently. Well I've decided to upload the new take anyway.
Posted by: wrk May 26 2009, 01:54 PM
Hi Oxac, you can deactivate the metronome on the bottom/right side. Click and hold with the mouse and a little popup will appear. See screenshot ..
[attachment=15876:Picture_1.png]
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 01:55 PM
This was much better take then first one, seriously man.
First of all timing is spot on here. When I listen to solo by itself only I can hear rhythms clearly with foot tapping for example. Previous one was rushed or slowing down with click, this one is much better.
If you want to correct things in this solo I would say some wrong notes (you could tell where they are), and phrasing in the very last seconds of solo (unclear rhythm figure
I can keep this if you want me to !
Posted by: Oxac May 26 2009, 01:59 PM
Yeah, I tried to do one Fully written part and one fully improvised part. The written part is untill the ascending/descending bend. Everything else is improvised. But I agree completely with the ending and mistakes.
Btw, the second last tone, I somehow managed to stumble on right? That's what messing up the ending I think. With a proper note duration there it would be much better.
Feels really good that I was able to correct it (to some extent). I'm not a hopeless case 
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 02:01 PM
Cool !
So its up to you now if you want to record another one. If you do, use this last take as a guide, it is very good work with that one. Also bring guitar a bit louder in the final mix if possible
Posted by: Oxac May 26 2009, 02:05 PM
Sure, we'll see. I hope I can do even better on a day when I haven't had a 4 hour long math test. Thanks for the advice and help guys.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 02:15 PM
Take a brake buddy, no need to rush anything here
Try another one tomorrow or day after, recharge your batteries
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 26 2009, 10:08 PM
Here is guitar pro file of my solo.
Posted by: JamesT May 29 2009, 02:19 AM
Here's my take Pedja.
Wow, syncopation is something I haven't worked on in the past. I hope that I got the basic idea. If I'm on the right track, the 1st 4 bars here are syncopated, then I'm "on beat" for 4 bars, then 4-bars are somewhat syncopated, and the last 4 are on beat again. I hope that I got that right, and that this is what you're looking for.
The harmonic minor scale was fun to mess around with. I should do some more work to memorize all the 3nps harmonic minor modes (Like Zolt's modal madness lesson). Here, I just picked a few notes from the scale that seemed to fit.
30090528_Collab_Syncopation_wBacking.mp3 ( 520.13K )
: 177
30090528_Collab_Syncopation_noBacking.mp3 ( 520.13K )
: 130
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 29 2009, 12:40 PM
Wow, syncopation is something I haven't worked on in the past. I hope that I got the basic idea. If I'm on the right track, the 1st 4 bars here are syncopated, then I'm "on beat" for 4 bars, then 4-bars are somewhat syncopated, and the last 4 are on beat again. I hope that I got that right, and that this is what you're looking for.
The harmonic minor scale was fun to mess around with. I should do some more work to memorize all the 3nps harmonic minor modes (Like Zolt's modal madness lesson). Here, I just picked a few notes from the scale that seemed to fit.
30090528_Collab_Syncopation_wBacking.mp3 ( 520.13K )
: 177
30090528_Collab_Syncopation_noBacking.mp3 ( 520.13K )
: 130Very nice take Jim.
I will accept it as final take but there are some things you can improve as future reference.
When you were doing straight rhythm you always started good and strong but then later on started adding ties and dots to the notes which turned out to be somewhat syncopated rhythm. I know backing is syncopated and it tends to pull you to pull that way but still I think you did good job with introducing some straight rhythm in there.
Glad you enjoyed Harmonic minor scale. It is definitely fun one to work with especially over Dom7 chord.
Posted by: Dexxter May 29 2009, 05:18 PM
Here's my take Pedja
It's the first time I upload the first improvisation over the backing, or a totally improvised take at all really 
I noticed afterwards that I overused syncopated rhythms for the sake of this class, but I got some straight rhythm in there. Is this take ok, or should I redo it?
Edit: Forgot to attach the take 
[attachment=15943:Dexxter_...ated_WBT.mp3]
[attachment=15944:Dexxter_...ated_NBT.mp3]
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 29 2009, 06:16 PM
It's the first time I upload the first improvisation over the backing, or a totally improvised take at all really
I noticed afterwards that I overused syncopated rhythms for the sake of this class, but I got some straight rhythm in there. Is this take ok, or should I redo it? Edit: Forgot to attach the take
[attachment=15943:Dexxter_...ated_WBT.mp3]
[attachment=15944:Dexxter_...ated_NBT.mp3]
Thanks a lot Dexxter !
You are right, this one has a lot more syncopated then straight rhythm. Again I think that was the case among most takes so far. You can keep it or submit another one. Looks like I will have to extend the deadline as there is only couple of submitted takes so far.
Posted by: Dexxter May 29 2009, 06:42 PM
You are right, this one has a lot more syncopated then straight rhythm. Again I think that was the case among most takes so far. You can keep it or submit another one. Looks like I will have to extend the deadline as there is only couple of submitted takes so far.
Ok, I don't have time now, going away to my gf. But if you have to extend the guideline I will make another take when I come back, otherwise I'll keep it
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 29 2009, 07:04 PM
Sounds good Dexxter. Deadline will be extended so you will have chance to submit another take
Posted by: Dexxter May 29 2009, 07:12 PM
Alright Pedja
Posted by: berko May 30 2009, 05:00 PM
I'm sorry for the long delay Pedja! As I said earlier, I messed up the first recording, then, after rerecording it I wasn't satisfied with it anymore as a compostion. I had an exam yesterday so I only got to time for a new take today.
I tried to keep it simple and to maintain the balance between straight and syncopated rhythm... I also used lot's of syncopation but I tried to include some more (rhythmically) straightforward passages to even it out.
I hope I got the basic idea right in this collab, and thanks for giving us a bit more time on this one
rhythm_collab_berko_w_BT.mp3 ( 774.82K )
: 147
rhythm_collab_berko_noBT.mp3 ( 774.82K )
: 127
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 30 2009, 05:23 PM
I tried to keep it simple and to maintain the balance between straight and syncopated rhythm... I also used lot's of syncopation but I tried to include some more (rhythmically) straightforward passages to even it out.
I hope I got the basic idea right in this collab, and thanks for giving us a bit more time on this one
rhythm_collab_berko_w_BT.mp3 ( 774.82K )
: 147
rhythm_collab_berko_noBT.mp3 ( 774.82K )
: 127Berko this was beautiful man. I really enjoyed listening to it 2/3 into the solo.
Last section , phrasing was a bit all over the place but everything before it was well done.
Will write you more about it in PM as I have to leave now (have some friends coming over in half an hour
Posted by: berko May 30 2009, 05:40 PM
Last section , phrasing was a bit all over the place but everything before it was well done.
Will write you more about it in PM as I have to leave now (have some friends coming over in half an hour
Great to hear it Pedja
But yes, as I'm listening to it now, the last section would certainly need some brushing upTake your time with the comments and have fun with the friends
Posted by: Pedja Simovic May 31 2009, 07:21 PM
But yes, as I'm listening to it now, the last section would certainly need some brushing upTake your time with the comments and have fun with the friends
Berko I will write comments after 7th of June. You can submit another take if you want by that time !
Posted by: jdriver Jun 1 2009, 02:35 AM
Pedja, you think like a music computer. This one is over my head. The only thing I understood in your instructions is a tonal center of A minor. I played my solo in the D Dorian position. This is the one and only take. I don't know upbeat from downbeat, and besides, I am the soloist, I can't be bothered with accurate rhythm.
I want to talk more about this after you post your comments.
jdriver_synco_WBT.mp3 ( 709.81K )
: 162
jdriver_synco_WOBT.mp3 ( 684.05K )
: 180
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 1 2009, 01:02 PM
I want to talk more about this after you post your comments.
jdriver_synco_WBT.mp3 ( 709.81K )
: 162
jdriver_synco_WOBT.mp3 ( 684.05K )
: 180Haha !
Jeff I don't think like music computer, I am just trying to find interesting and creative ways for you guys to learn about everything. This concept of straight and syncopated rhythm is actually quite common in music, but its something that not many people talk about (its stuff thats hidden beneath the layers if you want it put that way
. Your solo was using syncopated rhythm as it was off beat trough out.
If you want it to be final take, I will accept it but I will write you final comments and send you PM more about straight rhythm soloing.
Thanks Jeff
Posted by: jdriver Jun 1 2009, 08:16 PM
If you want it to be final take, I will accept it but I will write you final comments and send you PM more about straight rhythm soloing.
Thanks Jeff
Yes this is the final take, and I welcome your comments. I tried other takes and all I ended up changing was the tone. So this is an area I need to learn more about.
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 1 2009, 11:36 PM
Beautiful Jeff, I am glad to hear that. I will send you some guitar pro examples of rhythms and what Straight rhythm soloing looks and sounds like.
Posted by: wrk Jun 5 2009, 01:06 AM
Hi Pedja,
Here another take.
As i said i'm a bit out of ideas. Hope straight and syncopated
rhythms are better balanced now.
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_wbt_03.mp3 ( 840.68K )
: 150
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_nbt_03.mp3 ( 813.28K )
: 141
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 5 2009, 11:10 AM
Here another take.
As i said i'm a bit out of ideas. Hope straight and syncopated
rhythms are better balanced now.
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_wbt_03.mp3 ( 840.68K )
: 150
Pedja_Class_4_Syncopated_Soloing_nbt_03.mp3 ( 813.28K )
: 141Very cool Andy !
There was nice balance of both rhythms I like it
Posted by: wrk Jun 5 2009, 11:24 AM
There was nice balance of both rhythms I like it
Thank you .. now i'm relieved ..
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 5 2009, 12:30 PM
So I guess we are going with that one then ?
Posted by: wrk Jun 5 2009, 01:42 PM
Yes, i think so
... pssst .. but i kind of liked the first take as well ....
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 5 2009, 01:54 PM
Hahaha
O k
Posted by: berko Jun 5 2009, 03:23 PM
Ok, so I did another take because I had some ideas hanging around so why not apply them straight away over this cool BT! After recording it did I realize how tricky this one was with all the chord initiation and that the main beat (hihat) always seemed to be in a syncopated rhythm compared to the heavy pulse of the chords... oh well.
Now I put a lot of delay and reverb on this one because somehow I couldn't dial in an appropriate tone... I mean it was either too twangy or too dry and flat... there wasn't a solution in between or I didn't seem to find it. Anyway, it maybe a bit "too feely" but I wanted to sort out the mess I did in my previous take so I concentrated on rhythm mainly and to avoid to much syncopation.
rhythm_collab_berko2_w_BT.mp3 ( 715.43K )
: 132
rhythm_collab_berko2_noBT.mp3 ( 715.43K )
: 131
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 5 2009, 03:57 PM
After recording it did I realize how tricky this one was with all the chord initiation and that the main beat (hihat) always seemed to be in a syncopated rhythm compared to the heavy pulse of the chords... oh well.Now I put a lot of delay and reverb on this one because somehow I couldn't dial in an appropriate tone... I mean it was either too twangy or too dry and flat... there wasn't a solution in between or I didn't seem to find it. Anyway, it maybe a bit "too feely" but I wanted to sort out the mess I did in my previous take so I concentrated on rhythm mainly and to avoid to much syncopation.
rhythm_collab_berko2_w_BT.mp3 ( 715.43K )
: 132
rhythm_collab_berko2_noBT.mp3 ( 715.43K )
: 131You are the man Berko
I like this one more then the previous one, if you don't mind I would like to use it for final mix?
Posted by: berko Jun 5 2009, 05:03 PM
I like this one more then the previous one, if you don't mind I would like to use it for final mix?
Yes I wanted to suggest this take too instead of the first one! Thanks again for the great backing and I'm already looking forward to your comments!
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 5 2009, 05:04 PM
Awesome Berko !
I will start mixing on Monday, comments should follow on Tuesday latest since there is only 8-9 submitted takes right now...
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Jun 6 2009, 06:24 PM
Heres my take.. im not sure if its what you wanted but it sounded kinda cool to me at the moment
Posted by: Dexxter Jun 7 2009, 12:58 PM
Ok, here's another fully improvised take. Hope I did more balanced take now Tell me if you want me to redo it
[attachment=16083:Dexxter_...ed_WBT_2.mp3]
[attachment=16084:Dexxter_...ed_NBT_2.mp3]
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 7 2009, 04:12 PM
Hey John,
Your guitar sound is a bit sharp and it sounds like tuning is off a bit. I feel you can do better than this one, see if you can submit another one today !
Tell me if you want me to redo it [attachment=16083:Dexxter_...ed_WBT_2.mp3]
[attachment=16084:Dexxter_...ed_NBT_2.mp3]
I like it Dexxter, I will keep it good work with rhythms !
Posted by: Dexxter Jun 7 2009, 04:13 PM
Great! Looking forward to comments
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 7 2009, 04:17 PM
Me too !
I will start to mix it tomorrow and then comments should be up by Tuesday latest.
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Jun 7 2009, 08:14 PM
Ill submit something tonight, just got home from kayaking and now im off to my sons soccer game...
Ill have something tonight for sure
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 7 2009, 08:17 PM
Ill have something tonight for sure
Have fun at the game, dont worry I will mix it tomorrow so you can even submit something tomorrow if you dont get to it tonight !
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Jun 8 2009, 01:54 AM
I tuned my guitar and got a more jazzy sounding tone for this one... not sure if its what you want or not, i was trying to play in the off beats at the end..
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 8 2009, 02:00 PM
John I like this one better then the first one ! I will keep it for final mix if you don't mind. I am going to start mixing today so look out for comments tomorrow
Posted by: Outlaw2112 Jun 8 2009, 10:55 PM
thanks pedja... sorry i was late with my take
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 9 2009, 04:53 AM
You were spot on John !
I will hopefully publish mix with comments today
Posted by: jdriver Jun 12 2009, 04:28 PM
Tap...Tap...Tap... Testing 1..2..3...
Is this thing on? Can you hear me now??
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 12 2009, 05:51 PM
Is this thing on? Can you hear me now??
Yes
Patience is a virtue
I was just hoping everybody would submit their take, contacted guys via PM and MSN and no luck so I will just mix those 13 takes we have and write final comments for them this weekend.
Sorry for delay !
Posted by: Pedja Simovic Jun 15 2009, 12:17 PM
Guys final mix is done I am typing comments for you now, expect a new thread today with everything in it !
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