Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 16 2011, 08:57 PM

Right Guys.. for those who attended the video chat tonight (Tues 16th August) you will have encountered http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=38259&view=findpost&p=538515 which is a sequence of 3 string sweep arpeggios

I wanted to do this because it's something I need to work on in my own playing.. and I thought it was a great opportunity for us all to practice something and improve together. So, here is the board for us to share our progress with each other. Feel free to upload videos.. it doesn't matter what speed, it's all about the practice !

Remember. It's a 6 note sequence which applies to all shapes... the picking motion is :

E---17---12----------------------12
B---------------14----------14-----
G---------------------14------------
D------------------------------------
A------------------------------------
E------------------------------------

17: U
12: p.o.
14: U
14: U
14: D
12: D

U - Upstroke
D - Downstroke
p.o - Pull Off

I used the first shape above as an example but we're practising the whole piece Even though we did 4 repetitions of each shape in the chat, you can just follow the tab and do 2 reps of each shape if you like.

Posted by: K1R Aug 16 2011, 09:07 PM

Should we upload videos with the whole lick or only the first shape?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 16 2011, 09:09 PM

The whole lick please.. I just used the first shape as an example to explain the picking pattern. I'll add a note to the post

Posted by: playaxeman Aug 16 2011, 09:52 PM

Hi Ben,

the 14 th B and G string is that the rolling 3 th finger?

Regards

Posted by: velci Aug 16 2011, 10:12 PM

Hey Ben!!!

First one is from me
It's 110 bpm This is my max. speed for now

Posted by: K1R Aug 16 2011, 11:07 PM

Okay I will post my take tomorrow.

Posted by: Adrian Figallo Aug 17 2011, 03:22 AM

Nice! im going to practice it too

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 17 2011, 10:15 AM

It is meant to be a rolling finger technique, yes.. although I personally use the 2nd finger as it feels more comfortable



This is EXCELLENT ! Really relaxed picking and fretting motions too.. and extra bonus points for the classical vibrato at the end !!





Great.. I look forward to it ! I already think Velci plays it better than me so I don't want to put up a take now



Brilliant ! I'm not very good at sweeping so we're all in this together !

Posted by: K1R Aug 17 2011, 05:27 PM

Ben, you were right, it is hard to follow the metronome while sweeping. At first my 100 bpm take was faster than 120 bpm
I will upload one video every day. In every video I play the same lick, but increasing tempo every 20 minutes. Hope you like the vibrato at the end

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Aug 17 2011, 05:32 PM

it sounds good! Try to do a even more fluently sweep when you are doing the upstrokes... It seems that you divide the movement in two.. first you play the 1 string, then it comes the pull of and then you continue with the second and third string.. check the movement of your hand between the pull off and the second string upstroke... if you want to play this fast as shredders you won't have time to waste.. do you understand what I mean?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 17 2011, 06:09 PM

Kirill this is brilliant.. I think 120bpm was the best ! Sweeping is hard to perform slowly, so the faster tempos can sometimes be easier.. plus you were more warmed up by then too. It all sounds really good. Your picking is correct, and the finger postions are great. Keep going as you are !

And yes, the vibrato rocks !!

Posted by: velci Aug 18 2011, 11:26 AM

I totally understand you Gabriel. Thank you so much for advice.

Posted by: K1R Aug 18 2011, 05:46 PM

Here is today's video A bit sloppy... I found that it is much easier to fit the metronome when some beats are accented. I mean regullar metronome sounds like "click click click click", but it is easier when it sounds like "CLICK click CLICK click"

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 18 2011, 06:33 PM

Great stuff Kirill... you're getting better at this. After a while of sweeping, you'll be able to fine tune the other aspects of the technique, like muting with your right hand and rolling the finger on shapes 1 and 3

Posted by: GrindGuer Aug 18 2011, 09:59 PM

Hi everyone,
I'm trying this too. Here is my first attempt at 100 bpm (8th triplets). I don't have any video for now.
I think it's not smooth enough. But I don't know how to correct this. Any idea (I know that without a video it's probably difficult to say).
Cheers.

 20110818_sweep_picking_100bpm.mp3 ( 217.3K ) : 126


 20110818_sweep_picking_130bpm.mp3 ( 166.98K ) : 219


Edit : I added a version at 130 bpm. Can't go faster...

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 19 2011, 08:44 AM

That sounds really good... I would be very pleased if that we me

Posted by: HungryForHeaven Aug 19 2011, 09:23 AM

Hey guys. I was considering giving an old thread about building speed a little bump, but I'm gonna hijack this thread instead.

My point is simple: Playing something faster is NOT doing the same motion faster.
To play an individual note, you need to hit the string with a certain speed or force. Somewhat simplified, playing a sequence of notes involves repeating that procedure (with some variation, of course, since you are likely to want to use both up- and downstrokes). Thus, playing the same sequence of notes faster means repeating the procedure at a higher rate rather than simply speeding up the overall flow of motion.

This is possibly most obvious when sweeping. GrindGuer's 100 bpm take sounds a bit staggered, while the 130 bpm take is a lot smoother (sounds really nice to my ears!). When the pick has hit one string, it arrives with a certain speed at the next string ready to hit the next note. At a lower tempo, one is more or less forced to break up that motion. One is tempted to question the efficiency of starting too slow and thereby print broke up picking patterns into muscle memory.

I think this applies to alternate picking as well.

What do you guys have to say about this?

H4H

Posted by: GrindGuer Aug 21 2011, 07:05 PM

Thank you very much Ben. But I don't believe you ! Anyway, I'm still working on it.

HungryForHeaven, I'm not sure to agree with you. I think I can't access higher speeds with a clean sound if I don't master 100 bpm. John Petrucci in his first video "rock discipline" said something like "your technique when you're playing fast should be the same technique you use when you're playing slow". And john Petrucci is one of my favorites guitarists (well, he was when he was playing music and not only showing how fast he can play... )

Posted by: GrindGuer Aug 21 2011, 10:00 PM

Hi. K1R and Velci, don't let me down. Where are your takes ?
Here is mine for today, at 140 bpm.
 20110821_sweep_picking_140bpm.mp3 ( 172.32K ) : 174

Posted by: K1R Aug 21 2011, 11:19 PM

Haven't enoght time to record last 2 days. So here is my today's take.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 22 2011, 08:35 AM

This is coming along very nicely !



Very cool, K-Man !

Watch out for the downstrokes when you're coming back down the arpeggio.. they are a little uneven, particularly on the 2nd & 3rd shapes. However, you're still doing great... it's about time I did some more practice on this myself

EDIT: Sometimes when this happens, it isn't necessarily your right hand. A lot of the time the left hand can throw your picking rhythm out because the fingers aren't fretting the notes in time.. especially on those difficult shapes where you have to 'roll the finger'. So have a look at your left hand first, really concentrate on keeping time with your fretting hand and that will probably make a difference.



It's a good point and yes, it is valid. My personal approiach is a combination of the two. Firstly, before I go too depp into it.. in order to teach yourself how to do something, you have to do that thing. So, in order to learn how to play fast, you have to spend some time actually playing fast.

In my personal experience - I train myself the new motions at slow speed, to develop muscle memory and get comfortable with the patterns.. also to encourage relaxed technique. When I think the time is right, I supplement this with bursts of high speed repetitions. What the speed does is train your brain and hands to operate at a higher velocity, a little bit at a time.

Not only do your fingers have to handle higher speeds, your brain does too.. so it's necessary to develop these neurological pathways and the only way to do that is by dipping your toes into that water bit by bit.

Then, from each end, slowly combine the 2 until it all comes together in the middle. Balance

This is what my whole approach is about in my Stamina School lesson.

Posted by: GrindGuer Aug 22 2011, 02:27 PM

Thank you Ben. I'm still working on it. Here is my take at 150 bpm :
 20110822_sweep_picking_150bpm.mp3 ( 146.45K ) : 99



Interesting point. Could you please tell us what is your approach when working on an exercise like this one ?

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 22 2011, 02:59 PM

Sounding good !

Yes, I'll gradually go up the sppeds on the metronome then when I get to a speed that is more challenging I will put the metronome even higher and do a few reps but I won't play the sequence all the way through. I'll do 1 rep of one shape, wait a few clicks then do another one. Even though it's too fast to play it all the way through perfectly, still try to do the small bursts as perfectly as you can. Then put the metronome back down to where you were and carry on

Posted by: K1R Aug 22 2011, 04:01 PM

Thanks for hte comment, Ben It is hart to fret the notes and release them in time in 2nd & 3rd shapes. When I don't release them, it makes buzz,but when I try to release it in time it feels like hand is paralyzed... I'll be working on it.
Here is today's take.

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 22 2011, 04:28 PM

I know exactly what you mean with that !

I practiced this sweep lick today.. I started at 100bpm and got up to 160. Around 160 I started getting uneven and forced.. so I put the speed to 170 and did a few shorts bursts, staying relaxed and trying to keep it clean and in time. I then went back to 160 for a while before leaving it for today.

One thing I do is mute the strings with my right hand, which is something I need more because I don't have a neck pickup.. but muting the strings with your picking hand might help you guys keep it sounding cleaner

Posted by: superize Aug 22 2011, 07:31 PM

Here is a take at 160 bpm but i am not sure if i played it tight to the bpm

Posted by: Ben Higgins Aug 22 2011, 10:13 PM

Hey Superize.. you did go out of synch with the metronome but technically you played it really well ! If you could keep it in time it would be killer.. perhaps go back to 150 and lock in with the click to make sure you know where you are etc..