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Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 14 2021, 12:58 PM

Hey GMC!

I have been working with Ken behind the scenes to come up with a new collab concept!

We wanted to make sure there was something in it for everybody - so we ended up with a track I would describe as Vai-meets-Slash-meets-GMC 🤘😅

 Vai_meets_Slash_collab.mp3 ( 2.16MB ) : 413


The idea is that we record over whichever section(s) we like. I will then mix it all together and try to add some vocals as well.

Here are the sections:

00:02 - 00:23 C Lydian

00:24-00:44 C - Ab - F (power chords) - try C minor pentatonic, C aeolian

00:44 - 01:04 Abmaj7 - Gm7 - Cm11 - F9 - try C minor pentatonic, C Dorian, C aeolian

Tempo: 92 bpm

* For best results, please send me your guitar only file without any reverb or delay
* To facilitate my mixing, please send me your track starting from "point 0" (ie from the first count-in)

Looking forward to hear what you think!

-----

>>Listen to the https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/promo/radio/Vai-meets-Slash-collab-final.mp3!


Be sure to listen to it in the https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/k_pl_v3.html as well.

Posted by: Phil66 Jun 14 2021, 08:00 PM

I'll have a go but I can't think of how to combine a Slash and Vai vibe

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 14 2021, 08:03 PM

No need to combine anything, you just have to play like Phil 👊 We really don't want to sound like any copycats anyway 😤

The "Vai meets Slash" title is just referring to how the backing track sounds!

Posted by: klasaine Jun 14 2021, 08:08 PM

The chords for the second mellow (Vai) part are Abmaj7 - G7#9 - Cm11 - F9.
*That's my editing mistake as I originally wrote it in another key but named the chords wrong when I sent it to Kris.

@Phil66 ... the two parts are separate. You don't have to play like either of those guys. I won't be.

Posted by: Mertay Jun 14 2021, 08:55 PM

The second parts second chord might be a bit tricky...I started noodling without giving a full listen, at the first chord of the second part I was like "cool I got this" and then the second chord gave me a brain freeze

Posted by: Phil66 Jun 14 2021, 09:04 PM

Okay, here are a couple of ideas. Any advice on how to develop them would be great thanks. I know the second half of the middle take needs a lot more notes but I ran out of ideas. I can work on that tomorrow. I just want to know if I should bin them and start again or not?

If you can use them Kris, I can send the files you need.

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-intro-take-1

https://soundcloud.com/gmcphil-1/vai-meets-slash-middle-take-1

Cheers

Posted by: klasaine Jun 14 2021, 09:22 PM

When you say 'second part' which progression are you referring to?
The Lydian section ... Cmaj7#11 - Bm7
The power chords ... C5 - Ab5 - F5
The 'soul' section ... Abmaj7 - G7#9 - Cm11 - F9

Posted by: Mertay Jun 14 2021, 10:01 PM

26th second, I hear it as a Abmaj

Posted by: klasaine Jun 14 2021, 11:19 PM

Yeah, the Ab. I figured that's what you were talking about but I just wanted to make sure.
It's still part of C minor - the VI chord. Minor penta and blues works perfectly over it.
*There are no 3rds in any of those power chords unless a partial popped out by itself.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 15 2021, 02:42 AM

Super Awesome! Count me in!!!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 15 2021, 09:52 AM

Thanks Phil,

These takes are musical to my ears and you can def use them as they are or as a foundation for something more elaborate.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Intro Take 1"

This take is structured as call and response, however the response (ie 00:10) follows pretty much the same structure as the "call" part. Why not change direction (ie if you start ascending then descend in your response) - OR if you want to keep the same melodic movement create a slight variation in rhythm. You could also apply both of these suggestions - and then it might sound less like call and response, if you stray too much from the original idea. This is really not a problem though, as the concept of "call and response" is really just a creative tool. So if the cretaivity is there anyway, there is no need to think in terms of "call and response".

On a general note this take sounds scalar - that's fine but if you want to get more innovative try disrupting the even rhythmic flow and/or throw in some wider intervals.

My thoughts "Vai Meets Slash Middle Take 1"

You are onto something here:


You don't necessarily need more notes, however it is correct that from a musical perspective - we sort of expect this lead to go towards a climax. However countless guitarists have achieved this without playing fast or adding many notes.

For example you can get more intense by adding a more intense vibrato, a more daring note choice - or maybe bend from a note that is outside of the key / ie sounds wrong. Anything unexpected that ads intensity is good: you could start slidding like a madman, add the toggle / killswitch effect / throw in a wah-wah / change sound patch / double stops / add tremolo picking close to the bridge etc etc

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 15 2021, 09:58 AM

Am I the only ones who get some "unpleasent" static sound around the second section (24 seconds in)? Almost like a crackling sound from an old vinyl, but not in the nice way.

I don't hear this on other songs. Just this one. When I put the song in Reaper it peaks at around +0.8 dB. I don't know if this is the issue?

I hear it in the backing in Phil's take too, though the volume of the backing is lower.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 15 2021, 10:20 AM

There is some slight amount of "analog" noise going on there, I have exported the drum beat only so you can hear it more clearly. Is this what you are reacting on perhaps?

 noise.mp3 ( 127.67K ) : 276

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 15 2021, 10:46 AM

Yes, I suspect that is it (I've only listened to that last file on my phone). It's fair enough if intentional, but it sort of sticks out a lot to my ears as "unpleasent" and sort of something that made my ears go "is something wrong with my speakers? Is it something peaking?"

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 15 2021, 11:12 AM

Yes - this is the kind of thing our ears are trained to detect and remove.

However in this case, if I remove it - the beat will just sound like a bunch digital samples already heard & used a thousand times. The noise to me is what makes it come to life, and creates a bond between the distorted rhythm guitars (which typically do not belong to this kind of beat).

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 15 2021, 11:22 AM

I get the idea behind that, it just sort of stuck out quite a bit to my ears. I don't have any other suggestions though.

Posted by: Phil66 Jun 15 2021, 12:34 PM

Thank you for your advice Kris,

I'll pop those files on here for you so you can use them if you find a place and I'll work on some more.

I'm quite pleased with the beginning of "Vai Meets Slash Middle" so I'll develop the part after the rhythmic playing.

Cheers

Posted by: tflava Jun 15 2021, 12:35 PM

Very nice.
I will try to participate if i have time left 👌

Grtz tim

Posted by: Phil66 Jun 15 2021, 12:35 PM

I heard that too and thought exactly the same. I was checking levels everywhere.

Posted by: klasaine Jun 15 2021, 03:29 PM

It's the "old vinyl" sound.
Is it in the sample or did you add it?
Can it be turned down a bit?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 15 2021, 05:11 PM

Here is a test export where I have lowered the noise level:

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 15 2021, 08:15 PM

Maybe it's just my "modern ear" that is not used to that sound, so it registers as something "wrong".

Posted by: tflava Jun 15 2021, 08:46 PM

Nice motif Phil 😎



This is the idea i come up with this evening.
Will try some more and maybe the begin part.
Just wanted to share with you guys

Posted by: Mertay Jun 15 2021, 08:54 PM

Sounds like "odd" harmonic saturation, "even" type has a less stressful character but if the plug-in you use doesn't offer that I can recommend this rather new freeware; https://www.tbproaudio.de/products/gsatplus

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 15 2021, 10:00 PM

YEAH!! Some very promising ideas here, also some very nice target notes. Keep polishing this one, it will turn out awesome! 😎



Cool tip Mertay, thanks!

----

...I also got some cool rock bass by Ken, will update the mix asap!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jun 17 2021, 02:26 PM

Great topic and backing track! I've already been analyzing and giving feedback to Tflava and Phil's takes in Gab's Army.

I'll give this one a try soon.

Posted by: Phil66 Jun 17 2021, 08:15 PM

Thanks Tim, I'm liking yours too, and the tone

Posted by: tflava Jun 17 2021, 09:21 PM

[quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Jun 15 2021, 09:00 PM' post='789889']
YEAH!! Some very promising ideas here, also some very nice target notes. Keep polishing this one, it will turn out awesome! 😎



Thanks man. And you too Phil

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 18 2021, 12:54 AM

It's always tricky trying to find the balance between adding some old school "mojo" and adding in just noise that doesn't sound good. In the end end it just comes down to the "sounding good" bit I"m sure it will find it's way as the track evolves, whether it stays the same or changes only time will tell. We are still early in the process.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 23 2021, 08:55 PM

Beautiful track, am enjoying it , can't believe so few have opted in on this

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 23 2021, 09:44 PM

Awesome you dig it, Cursin!

I have been mixing the track a bit more, and Ken has recorded some additional arrangement tracks. I hope to get back asap with a new mix.

I also tried adding some vocals today. That did not go too well though...it's much easier to hide behind noisy drums/guitars whereas this one seems to call for more precise vocals ( and the problem is that I suck 😅 )

Hope to get a take from you mate 👊

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 23 2021, 10:12 PM

I'll try and get a take soon

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 23 2021, 10:23 PM

Awesome Cael! Can't wait to hear it!

Posted by: jstcrsn Jun 24 2021, 03:10 AM

Hope to be able to play it, you know that each individual lick is doable syndrome, but sometimes stringing them together is challenging

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 24 2021, 09:17 AM

For sure, giving the whole solo a natural flow is a different story! I also find this very challenging for written solos.

Posted by: tflava Jun 24 2021, 10:27 AM

Hello guys,

Here is my participation.
Do you want only audio or also my vid?
 vai_collab_guitar_only.wav ( 8.39MB ) : 119




Greetz Tim

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 24 2021, 12:50 PM

Thanks alot mate - very cool solo! I don't plan on doing any video - but it's always cool to see you guys play your performances!

---

Here is an update with vocals and more elaborate arrangement.
 jun24.mp3 ( 2.19MB ) : 131



Sapere aude
(Dare to know)

Ad astra per aspera
(Through adversity to the stars)

Alea iacta est
(the die is cast)

Acta non verba
(Deeds, not words)

Ubi amor, ibi dolor
(Where there's love, there's pain.)

Amor vincit omnia
(Love conquers all things)

Though it might not be totally reciprocal
I know that in the end, what we’ll see
Is just picture
Of what used to be
Of what seemed to be
Horizontality burned into verticality
But what turned out to be…reality
It’s the real you and me

Posted by: FreePizza Jun 24 2021, 12:51 PM

Great Slash feel, man! I'm digging this track. 👍

Posted by: klasaine Jun 24 2021, 03:16 PM

Very Nice Tim!

Posted by: tflava Jun 24 2021, 06:12 PM

Allright thanks man. there is a little bit delay on the track i send you but i accidently recorded it with my delay pedal on and not the DI pedal.



Thanks man. I didnt search for the Slash sound but it was just what came in my mind



Thanks Ken

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Jun 24 2021, 06:40 PM

Hey Kris!

Cool vocals! Any chance we can hear the first part with some more layers and perhaps more reverb? More towards this feeling:



I think that could be cool! At least to hear how it would sound!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 24 2021, 08:40 PM

Love those sacral choirs! I don't really have the skills for that many harmonies - but i can certainly be inspired by the feel of this example. Watch this space - I will be doing more tweaks

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 24 2021, 11:02 PM

taking inspiration from your HOT COUNTRY mission I'm trying to do this solo using finger picking and avoiding shredding. It's turnout out to be quite tricky but I dig how it's coming along! A very interesting backing track to be sure.

Posted by: klasaine Jul 25 2021, 10:10 AM

I won't be doing any lead on this one as most, if not all of the chordal stuff is me. There's enough klasaine on it already.

Posted by: jstcrsn Jul 25 2021, 03:26 PM

thanks for finally figuring that out

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 26 2021, 02:23 AM

Love your chordal work on here. I think this one is gonna turn out great. Very original backing.

Posted by: tflava Jul 26 2021, 07:39 AM

Yeah its a great chord progression with some more complex chords. Its a little more difficult to freely improvise over this one

Posted by: klasaine Jul 26 2021, 09:11 AM

The beauty of this seemingly complex chord progression is that you don't have to be complex melodically. The chords take care of that for you.

Posted by: tflava Jul 26 2021, 12:35 PM

YEAH thats another way of thinking of chord changes playing
Its more practice to hit the changes but the chords dictates more what to play. Something i try to work on lately. It takes slow progress and is hard practice but its very rewarding

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 2 2021, 01:39 AM

I was on facebook the other day and Phil has suggested a member of a group we both belong to, come check out GMC and the person responded that it came up as a PHISHING SITE with a warning from his anti virus software. I wanted to ask if anyone else has ever see this? It would sure turn people off if they didn't know the site was legit?

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 2 2021, 01:48 AM

Not got anything like that. Only in one thread where Mertay linked to a picture that my virus software was worried about.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 2 2021, 08:11 AM

Kris has tried to relate the warning with the same AV that they were using (Total AV) but couldn't. Maybe a quirk with that person's setup?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 2 2021, 09:18 AM

Awesome to see some action in this thread!

I will be finalising this one either at the end of this week, or the week starting August 16 (that's when schools start here).

If you want to submit your take, I suggest you work with https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=62153&view=findpost&p=790125 version. There is lots of space for fills & leads.

Don't feel that you have to submit something perfect, just have fun over the recording! 😎

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 2 2021, 07:23 PM

I got mine reocorded last night. Just need to put the audio with the video. I'm using a soul press II wah on this as vai and slash both like wah I turned off the delay / reverb for the guitar only file though.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 3 2021, 05:59 AM

Here is mine with my new soul press II wah.



Without backing
 toddwithoutbacking.mp3 ( 2.87MB ) : 59


with backing
 toddwithbacking.mp3 ( 2.87MB ) : 58

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 3 2021, 09:11 AM

Very cool Todd, can't wait to start experimenting with your file!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 3 2021, 06:29 PM

Thanks much! A very cool backing on this one. Had a lot of fun with the Wah pedal!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 4 2021, 04:36 PM

Here is a new draft - where I have tried to use the two lead takes we have got so far as fills / Q&A with the vocals.

I also added an English/standard chorus. I am thinking about maybe placing it before the Latin/soprano chorus.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 4 2021, 09:28 PM

The vocal lines are very cool. has a sort of egyptian vibe in parts. I like the solo breakdown also with the talking bit in the middle. Very creative track and it's come together in to something special. Great job everyone!


[The quote name='Kristofer Dahl' date='Aug 4 2021, 11:36 AM' post='791355']
Here is a new draft - where I have tried to use the two lead takes we have got so far as fills / Q&A with the vocals.

I also added an English/standard chorus. I am thinking about maybe placing it before the Latin/soprano chorus.
[/quote]

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 5 2021, 08:36 AM

Agreed Todd - it feels like this one could end up very cool & original!

But more takes and feedback are needed and appreciated 🤗

Posted by: tflava Aug 5 2021, 12:59 PM

The concept is cool but it sounds like the guitar lead parts are not perfect in sync with the harmony of the backing track.
Cool vocal ideas

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 6 2021, 02:00 AM

Well they are two separate solos written at different times by different people so they were never created to synch up. Which is probably why they dont I think he is using them more as a texture.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 7 2021, 01:20 PM

It's still a little rough for sure, please let me know if there any specific spots you are thinking about?

If you are referring to the whole concept of boiling down a solo into 5 well chosen licks then I am with Todd - it will be a sacrifice for sure. Luckily we have jam based collabs going on as well, such as the https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=62237.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 19 2021, 11:53 AM

Here is a new version where I have added some lead guitar and polished the mix some more!

If someone has ideas for more sections or want to add more recordings we could prolong it. Alternatively we can leave it at this, and start brainstorming about the next one!

 Aug19.mp3 ( 2.24MB ) : 44


Because I am sure you are dying to find out what I am singing about, here is what we have so far 😁

Sapere aude
(Dare to know)

Ad astra per aspera
(Through adversity to the stars)

Alea iacta est
(the die is cast)

Acta non verba
(Deeds, not words)

Ubi amor, ibi dolor
(Where there's love, there's pain.)

Amor vincit omnia
(Love conquers all things)

Though it might not be totally reciprocal
I know that in the end, what we’ll see
Is just picture
Of what used to be
Of what seemed to be
Horizontality burned into verticality
But what turned out to be…reality
It’s the real you and me

Where there's love, there's also pain.
Love conquers all of these things

Sapere aude
(Dare to know)

Posted by: klasaine Aug 19 2021, 02:29 PM

Sounding good. I like the intro.
I would double the length of the chorus at the end.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 19 2021, 02:51 PM

Awesome you dig it Ken - I absolutely love working with your recordings and ideas 👌👌👌

You mean the chorus starting at 01:10 right? Do you think we should bring in the soprano again?

Posted by: klasaine Aug 19 2021, 03:32 PM

Yes, the Chorus at 1:10.
I prefer your heavier 'normal' vocal there but I think it could be pretty cool if you added in the soprano part hard to one side underneath the main vocal. Put some longer delay on it and send it to the opposite side.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 19 2021, 10:44 PM

Good idea Sort of use it as a texture with effects on it rather than feature it. Would work great as a sort of echo of the main vocal. This is going great!!!

I had the thought that instead of pushing the high voice around :28 instead use an octave below the standard voice mixed with the standard voice?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 20 2021, 11:18 AM

In this mix I have extended the last chorus.

 Aug20.mp3 ( 2.81MB ) : 47


I also tried using soprano voice as backing with the hard panned delay Ken suggested (01:07), but I couldn't really make it work (so it's on low volume in this mix, I might remove it). I also tried a low octave 'monk choir' dub on the first chorus (00:26), but same for this one.

For the chorus at 00:26 I tried many different type of lead vocals, but it seems the only ones I have control over are either super soft in my natural range or the falsetto/soprano thing. Since I wanted something powerful I didn't have much of a choice. We can pretend it's my wife singing 👀

The chorus at 01:07 works I guess, but the vocals are pretty soft. I think this arrangement calls for a powerful chorus and increase in dynamics.

I used to have a barking type of voice that would work in high pitch, but I am having problems using it now. I never had any good technique with it, so I think I am currently simply not up for the dB levels of screaming which it required. Or maybe I’d have to be really pissed 😅

Posted by: klasaine Aug 20 2021, 06:15 PM

I would 'saturate' (distortion) and compress the soprano vox ... a lot!
Same with the normal vocal (and the soprano vocal) on the two ending choruses.

I like it overall. Definitely a different thing than usual.

Posted by: tflava Aug 20 2021, 08:55 PM

Very nice man.
It feels that some parts are more in sync ass wel.
Nice vocals and arrsnging 😎

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 20 2021, 11:56 PM

This is my fave version yet. Each time it gets a bit more polished. This is very cool to hear something evolve like this. It's a great insight in to the process. Each set of changes makes it more and more interesting!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 21 2021, 07:25 AM

Awesome you guys dig it! 😍

I will experiment with parallel compression and try some different distortions and see if I can improve things.

…and we have a new empty lead fill spot to at the end, since I prolonged the last chorus. Who’s up for it? 😎

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 21 2021, 08:27 PM

would mine work? Theres plenty of it and I don't hear much of it in the first part of the song? I liked that blend with mine and the other one you chose. maybe a call and response with those two?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 22 2021, 06:49 AM

Yes I can probably edit something in there, your spots do sound very cool 😎

But if someone who has not yet participated wants to give it a shot that would ofc be best🤗

Posted by: klasaine Aug 23 2021, 04:52 PM

Did you play anything on this yet?
If not, come on in - we need ya!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 27 2021, 10:02 AM

....and here is the https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/promo/radio/Vai-meets-Slash-collab-final.mp3!

Be sure to listen to it in the https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/k_pl_v3.html as well.

I think it's safe to say that the level of originality we have here is hard to match - and it all goes down to us creating music together.

Do we have the first ever online community band❤️

I think I will be listening to our tracks for decades to come, they are just so damn cool 😎

Posted by: Caelumamittendum Aug 27 2021, 11:32 AM

Sounds great, Kris! That was indeed very original and I like it!

I hope we can do more of these. I like the idea of having a few different types of collabs (with or without deadlines):

- Song creation collaboration from scratch
- "Classic" solos collaboration (i.e. student after student for 30 seconds each like in the old days)
- Jam with Gab/Kris collaborations
- Song creation with backing track (like we have been doing for the past couple of years, where a backing track is provided and students add to that)

I'm sure there are more ideas out there.

EDIT:

- cover song collaboration (can we still do this? We did it in about 2009 with Smoke on the Water). Could be something everyone can join in on level wise with some parts - i.e. Another Brick in the Wall, a Beatles song like Hey Jude, Rolling Stones, whatever it we can think of. I don't know if we're allowed to do this though, but I think it could be interesting

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 27 2021, 11:59 AM

Awesome ideas Cael, I was actually just thinking how cool it would be with a new collab with some of your riffs…! 😎

Posted by: tflava Aug 27 2021, 06:12 PM

Very cool results man 😎
Nice mix also. Congrats every one.
Maybe in the future i can also help to try to sing a little part or try some harmonies.
Very difficult but practice will help

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 27 2021, 10:33 PM

The final result is one of the most original sounding tracks I think we have ever done as a group! I also love the idea of doing cover versions of some cool tunes and using some of BENs killer riffs. BEN is a riff machine!!

Posted by: klasaine Aug 28 2021, 03:40 PM

Great work all around!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 30 2021, 05:30 AM

When I use the player, it doesn't play on the page. Or pop out in to a window. It takes me to a separate page with just the player on it. is this happening for everyone?

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 30 2021, 09:50 AM

Sounds great, good job everyone, my wife was giving some sideways looks as I played this, this morning in bed while she was in her tablet playing a game. I guess parts of it are a little unusual

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Aug 30 2021, 11:23 AM

Wives are the ultimate guinea pigs for song writing. Mine also laughed when she heard I was singing the soprano chorus 😤



Yes, that's the solution we had to go for. This is because with the current forum software songs would be interrupted when browsing around the forum - if we had the actual player in the forum header. Therefore we just have an image there linking to the player.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 31 2021, 03:04 AM

Makes sense Just sharing something I noticed. It works for me