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Neck Relief Drop Tuning Question
Phil66
Jul 6 2020, 12:31 PM
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It appears to work like that if you watch that video but that block that the springs are attached to is a solid block attached to the rest of the assembly above it, the trem can only pivot up and down, it can't rotate even in the slightest in the same direction as, say, the control knobs. this is why I don't get it.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I can't understand why loosening one spring on a solid block that is anchored to moving in one plane, can alter tension on one side.

I'm trying to think of an analogy better than this one but here goes. Attach a spring to one corner of a seesaw and attach that to the ground. No matter where you put that spring, ie, left, right or centre, the force required to push the other end down will be the same at any point on the edge. Attach three springs of different tension, the required force at the other end will be the total of the three springs wherever you push it.

I need a scientist laugh.gif



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 5 2020, 10:36 PM) *
I always thought it had more of a regional effect. E.G. Loosen the first spring and the first few strings are effected and so on.

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This post has been edited by Phil66: Jul 6 2020, 12:57 PM


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Todd Simpson
Jul 7 2020, 02:11 AM
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Well, imagine the seesaw is wide. It's got 3 spring holding it but the springs are angled in. As opposed to another see saw that has five springs which are just straight. The one with three springs has a more focused reglonal impact based on tension as there are only three springs to balance all the weight. THe seesaw with five spring has less result when you loosen one spring as the other four take up the slack.

In general if you tighten all the springs once you get your saddles where you want them you can find the sweet spot to get the trem to "float". Make sure the strings are well, really well, stretched first of course smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 6 2020, 07:31 AM) *
It appears to work like that if you watch that video but that block that the springs are attached to is a solid block attached to the rest of the assembly above it, the trem can only pivot up and down, it can't rotate even in the slightest in the same direction as, say, the control knobs. this is why I don't get it.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I can't understand why loosening one spring on a solid block that is anchored to moving in one plane, can alter tension on one side.

I'm trying to think of an analogy better than this one but here goes. Attach a spring to one corner of a seesaw and attach that to the ground. No matter where you put that spring, ie, left, right or centre, the force required to push the other end down will be the same at any point on the edge. Attach three springs of different tension, the required force at the other end will be the total of the three springs wherever you push it.

I need a scientist laugh.gif

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Phil66
Jul 7 2020, 07:55 AM
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I see what you're trying to say, but regardless of where the springs are on the one side, angled or not, the force required at the other side will be equal across all areas, the saddles are effectively sitting on top of the seesaw. Obviously my engineering brain is missing something fundamental here laugh.gif

Each saddle is independent of the others but is fix to the assembly. I'll speak to my luthier, when I get chance, he has an engineering background. Sometimes things are counterintuitive. I need to let this go, I'm losing sleep over it laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

I think my main point of misunderstanding is that I can't see how you can adjust the relative tension between the strings. Lets say, if, an I know it probably isn't but if string 4 has double the tension of string 1, if you increase the pull on the trem block to lift it up (floating) there will be more tension across all string the the relative tension will be the same, ie, 4 will still be twice as much as 1 (if it was in the first place but you know what I mean).

Maybe strings don't alter tension equally with increased load and there is a sweet spot that gives you the same result as that video whether you have the claw angled or not. That's what I'm starting to think now.

Cheers

Phil

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 7 2020, 02:11 AM) *
Well, imagine the seesaw is wide. It's got 3 spring holding it but the springs are angled in. As opposed to another see saw that has five springs which are just straight. The one with three springs has a more focused reglonal impact based on tension as there are only three springs to balance all the weight. THe seesaw with five spring has less result when you loosen one spring as the other four take up the slack.
Todd

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This post has been edited by Phil66: Jul 7 2020, 09:51 AM


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Todd Simpson
Jul 14 2020, 07:34 AM
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I really hate to say this as I know you want that down tuned SRV trem float with bass size strings, smile.gif The easy trick? The string that feels tight? Take it down a gauge. Build your own set of strings using as many gauge packs as you want. The reason I love the yngwie pack is that it's actually like parts of 3 sets of strings. Each selected for a given purpose. I'm not saying put yngwie sets on your SRV, just that if one string feels heavy, put the next gauge down on and it's pretty much sorted. then you just have to find the float point on the trem smile.gif Just a thought.

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Phil66
Jul 14 2020, 09:12 AM
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Thanks Todd,

If I get chance I'm dropping it off at my mate's place, 12s 5 springs and a small amount of float in D standard. That should be okay for half step down too. If not I'll deck it wink.gif

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Todd Simpson
Jul 14 2020, 11:53 PM
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Best of luck and have fun!


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 14 2020, 04:12 AM) *
Thanks Todd,

If I get chance I'm dropping it off at my mate's place, 12s 5 springs and a small amount of float in D standard. That should be okay for half step down too. If not I'll deck it wink.gif

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Phil66
Jul 31 2020, 05:04 PM
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Well the guitar is setup and ready to collect. Five springs, set with float at D standard, hopefully it will be okay at Eb standard too. I asked for Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky strings (12s) which he has put on. He said "Those sporting are heavy" and I said "it will be my gym guitar" laugh.gif laugh.gif

I'm embarrassed though, I asked him how much, he said £10,you don't need to work out the change rate if you know that the strings are £6.50 a set. Obviously he's going to be getting more than that though, as I've said before, he's more about helping people than making loads of money but I can't take advantage of his good nature.

Cheers

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Todd Simpson
Aug 1 2020, 05:10 PM
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Wow that's cheap. A setup with strings is about fifty pounds or so converted. I'd feel bad just at ten as well. It's not easy getting that perfect float point and with new gauge strings and setup the neck, etc.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Jul 31 2020, 12:04 PM) *
Well the guitar is setup and ready to collect. Five springs, set with float at D standard, hopefully it will be okay at Eb standard too. I asked for Ernie Ball Not Even Slinky strings (12s) which he has put on. He said "Those sporting are heavy" and I said "it will be my gym guitar" laugh.gif laugh.gif

I'm embarrassed though, I asked him how much, he said £10,you don't need to work out the change rate if you know that the strings are £6.50 a set. Obviously he's going to be getting more than that though, as I've said before, he's more about helping people than making loads of money but I can't take advantage of his good nature.

Cheers

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Phil66
Aug 1 2020, 06:39 PM
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It would be around £50 at the music shop in my home town, he's certainly not getting £10, it'll be around £30, we've argued many times usually coming to a compromise, that's why I get him a gift of JD at the end of the year.

Any adjustments needed after a few days settling down, he won't take money for. He's one top bloke, he was the only uk Carvin dealer for years, he's sent Carvin amps to places for Steve Vai to do a clinic occasionally, sometimes you'd go in the shop and there'd be a Carvin head for sale with a diagram of the knob settings on a piece of A4 signed by the man himself.

He had a lovely Carvin V3m combo in once, in snakeskin Tolex that looked stunning. My GAS nearly got the better of me but looking back, it had too many knobs.

Cheers

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 1 2020, 05:10 PM) *
Wow that's cheap. A setup with strings is about fifty pounds or so converted. I'd feel bad just at ten as well. It's not easy getting that perfect float point and with new gauge strings and setup the neck, etc.

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Phil66
Yesterday, 08:43 PM
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Well I fetched it back, had a quick play on it and it feels great, you have to fight it a little but it's sweet, it's sitting in the decontamination zone now for a few days wink.gif

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Todd Simpson
Yesterday, 09:15 PM
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Glad it's finally sorted and playing like a champ! The good thing about thick strings is that they will make your hand/fingers stronger!
Todd


QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 3 2020, 03:43 PM) *
Well I fetched it back, had a quick play on it and it feels great, you have to fight it a little but it's sweet, it's sitting in the decontamination zone now for a few days wink.gif

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