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Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 21 2013, 05:07 PM

It's clear that we all love music and guitars but there is a big difference between a hobby and a career. I was wondering who would like (or already made) to make a career of musician and who just want music as a hobby.

There is a nice article at http://www.artistshousemusic.org/articles/is+music+your+hobby+or+your+career+knowing+the+difference+is+crucial where the difference is discussed.

Please share your experiences and reasons!

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 21 2013, 05:43 PM

I'm guessing wads of folks here would like a career music Sounds glamarous and fun right? As you probably know the day to day can be just as full of work as any other job, but the rewards of making a living from music do speak for themselves.

The good news is that this distinction means something different these days with the rise of the web and leveling of the playing field. Artists can get pretty widespread fame and still not "make a living" from Music. AMON AMARTH for example slugged it out for 10 years and kept their crap day jobs before the music made them a living. Same with EPICA who only recently went "pro" after 10 years when they signed with Century Media.

So it's possible to have a brilliant career in music without it actually being a career. Being able to balance something else that has stable pay and maybe even health benefits, with the freedom to create any sort of music you like is a wonderful thing. Being free from market forces allows an artist to follow their own vision no matter what the "trend" is in music. Anyone can grab some software and a guitar and laptop and make music that is entirely their own and share it with the world.

In short it's a great time to be a musician on any level IMHO.

Todd

Posted by: audiopaal Jul 21 2013, 08:26 PM

It's my hobby, and probably will stay that way.
I'd like a career in music, but it would be as a songwriter and a mixing engineer, not a performing artist

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 21 2013, 09:38 PM

Good point Todd. Living from music means making something that someone will pay Your for and it's same as any other job. It's not as some kids imagine it looks like. Even being famous is a huge responsibility because if You fail once...this will be remembered and will affect Your future carrer. It's not about sitting at home and doing Your original stuff all the time. So no matter iof You have a regular job or make living of music it still means that most of Your time will be occured by doing a "job" for someone who pays. Sometimes it even menas that You'll will have to play something the way that's not necessary a way You will like it to be. Time amount for play things You would like to play most is still the same small


Beauty of the situation is the every invested $ makes You happy...because this is AWESOME when Your necessary working tool is also something You would like to buy as a hobby toy to make Yourself some joy It's also much easier to explain Your girl//woman/wife why do You have to buy next guitar


Another Advantage is...You're much more effeicient when You focus on doing ONLY ONE THING in Your life This means more skills, more knowlege, more competence do do Your job .


As for the Career let's take a look at some fact that guitar stars shared with people in some interviews.

S. Lukather had some psychical problems because of a some fans pressure about his playing
Head of Korn had family problems and drugs problems
Curt Cobain didn';t handle the weight of a fame and made a suecide...


So if You ever wish to make a higher prestigeous career...think of those things.

I personally love to be the second plan musician...playing in bands with vocalist who takes a most of audience attention. I'm not recognizable of the streets so I can easy go to the shop and by some cigarettes with no "Oh my god it's him..." problems instead of some of my friends who has this constantly and I will never go to the public place with them again

Posted by: klasaine Jul 22 2013, 08:50 AM

For the folks who make a career out of the arts in general, it is both their hobby and their job ... at least for the first 20 or so years.

As far as being bothered on the street ... well, it depends on where you live. Where I,m at, depending on exactly what neighborhood you go to to get cigarettes, unless you're maybe Angelina Jolie ... nobody cares. If Hugh Grant goes to get cigs on Hollywood Blvd. on a saturday in summer then yeah - he'll get hasseled (lets also keep in mind that many 'stars' love that attention! ... no matter what they say - it's one of the reasons they even get into it and serious about it in the first place - musicians, actors, whomever).

But back to 'normal' working musicians. It's a job - in many ways like most other jobs. You go to work, you try to do good, you want to make money, you want a raise, etc. Your schedule may be different than an auto worker and your compensation may not be in two week increments but if you're a working player you go to work and you get paid. As you get a little older you maybe become (the metaphor) the supervisor or manager or the boss. Also as you get older there's always someone younger and prettier ready and willing to take your place ... for less money.

Having said all that ... I love my job! We have an expression in the states - "the worst day fishing ..." (is better than the best day at work).

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jul 22 2013, 09:03 AM

For many years it was like a hobby. When I start to work in my free time for some musical projects (but not for many money) I realized that it's time to change my life. It's strange but I can not concentrate at my normal job because I always have a new song in mind or I feel like I'm loosing time. I can not eat, I can not sleep, because I want to play at guitar.
I was asked to play with two bands but I refused because I do not feel ready yet (I mean at technically skills). Was very hard to change my piano style with guitar style. Unfortunately, transformation is not completely I still think like a pianist in my songs. I want to make an instrumental band because to be honest, I'm a little selfish and I don't wanna share the success with an vocal
So, next year I will be ready for a big change and I would like to make a career of musician.

Posted by: The Professor Jul 22 2013, 09:28 AM

I've been doing music as a career in one way or another for about 18 years, and though it is very hard in the beginning to make ends meet and build up from scratch, i think that once I worked through the lean year that it's a very cool and very rewarding career to have. As was said, my hours are not normal, I gig and teach until midnight or later on weekdays some weeks, and might have to get up the next morning and give a lecture or teach a lesson at 9am, so it can be tough. But for every hard day, there are moments in my week that make me realize that this is what I was born to do, I couldn't do anything else if I tried, and I feel lucky to be able to be a musician, work in music and make a living doing it.

Having said that, some of the best players I have ever met, and who had the most passion for music I've ever seen, were businessmen, doctors, lawyers etc. People who played in the evenings and on weekends while they worked outside of music for their day job. I've seen some killer players with lives like that, some of them better than and "pro" musician I've met. So I don't think that one needs to be working in music all day every day to live out their musical dreams and goals, it can be done even if someone makes their income outside of music during the day.

Posted by: tonymiro Jul 22 2013, 09:58 AM

Well music is my career/day job but I'm not a musician although I can play guitar. Once, many, many years ago I even signed to a record label. Many engineers have a background as musicians and/or can play an instrument or two.

Posted by: dcz702 Jul 22 2013, 12:00 PM

Hobby to me but I spend a good portion of everyday practicing or trying to learn something, I especially like messing with software and learning about it. I was thinking one day if it would even be possible for me to start recording people, drummer friend of mine who plays lots of big shows around town asked if I could record him so he could have a demo for for people and other bands, but I need a different interface with more inputs, got me thinking if I could build a full studio equipped for a band if this would be something I could do for fun putting out rough demos of bands.

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 22 2013, 01:13 PM

That's great because it's much more comfortable to work with people who understand exactly what You mean while explaining some details. Man I work with is also a guitarist and I really the natural tone of mastered tracks...not over-pomped

Posted by: sammetal92 Jul 22 2013, 01:59 PM

I'm kinda sorta in between the two. I can't solely rely on music to make a living, but I want it to be at the point that I make around half of my living off of music and half of my living off of my degree. So its more than definitely more than a hobby but I guess less than a career.

Posted by: thefireball Jul 22 2013, 02:29 PM

It's a hobby. I have a normal job. But I wish I could make it a living. I only have time on the weekends to play now.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 22 2013, 04:53 PM

Hey guys, very interesting and inspiring posts. I think that this could really help to younger guys that are now defining what to do with their lifes.

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 23 2013, 12:45 AM

Unofrtunately the image of musicians life is sooo distorted by the media and movie makers. Some kids still think That it's enough to make a band and record a CD + sign the contract with any publisher. What a kick in the ass...when years later You'll make a band that is pretty good (at least from the outside people opinions), have a CD and a contract...and then BOOOOMMMM...You see that the contract is a sort of chains and the publisher can do nothing with Your next material etc...and You...can't publish it in a different company...so You wait until the contract burns out...That's why so many people decide to publish their stuff on their own

Posted by: PosterBoy Jul 23 2013, 06:39 AM

To me it's therapy!

There are many artists out there who have quite a few albums out but still have day jobs, for instance Damien Jurado is a school teacher and tours during school holidays.

Funny story related to me by one of my favourite artists Chris Mills.

So there he is in the back of a Chicago pizza place with another guy taking the flat-packed pizza boxes and putting them together and they get talking. The guy asks him about his life and he tells him he's a singer song writer, has released 4 albums or so and tours round the US and Europe. The guy then says 'Man you're living the dream' (to a guy trying to make rent etc in a pizza place!)

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 23 2013, 08:46 AM

Good one! That's how things are in much more cases

Posted by: klasaine Jul 23 2013, 08:58 AM

I lived in one bedroom apts or with roomates for years. Well past the time of it being 'societally normal' ;-)
If I played two top 40 gigs a month, taught a handful of lessons and maybe got one session ... all my expenses were covered. It really depends on the lifestyle you want - ? Indie van tours selling merch all summer and a bunch of weekend gigs throughout the year you can potentially make enough to live cheap w/o a day job. You want a family and a bigger place - ? Well, no. You'll need to figure something else out. Doesn't have to be non musical though. I once asked a percussionist how he got so many gigs. He says, 'I have eight kids - I have to work'.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jul 23 2013, 12:22 PM

You're right and I have many friends who believe that if you have a band and release an album is enough. After that, you have all open doors. This kind of thinking is a big mistake.
But for some people is enough to have only a band and to play live for 2 days /month. This is enough for the level at which they want to reach. (more than a hobby and not as a professional business)
Many people (not just some kids) just like the idea of having a band. They don’t really want to make music and live in it.
If you want to live from music and you already have a good band this is a start for the ugly side of things
One example that I don’t like at all and that happens in my country, there are some newly appeared festivals that can’t play enough good bands because some unknown bands are agree to play for free. And this is not ok. Because of this a lot of very good musicians prefer to be teachers and gives up his play live.
To publish your stuff alone, it's a good solution of course and a good start But I also think it is the longest way to become known.
However, it is a good alternative if you don't want to be a slave to a contract, which before, you thought it was the best thing that ever happened.

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 23 2013, 01:54 PM

Monica You've just mentioned some new social desease - people are getting Used to get entertainment for free...They feel offended when they have to pay for a gig... nothing weird when There are many festival where You can here huuuge starts for free

This could be the main reason...

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jul 23 2013, 02:32 PM

I do not feel offended if I pay for a gig People must pay even a small amount. I think it's a form of respect for those who play for us because behind a song it means a lot hours of work.

Posted by: Sensible Jones Jul 23 2013, 03:17 PM

We did this back in the late 80's, constantly Toured the UK (and a few european) playing Gigs and Festivals for 18 months. We were always about being a 'live' Band, we weren't into sitting in the Studio writing all the time. After that I did some other touring as a Guitar Tech.
As you all know, I still do some Tech work and Repairs but not enough to make a living so I have to work a day job too.
If someone offered me to go back out on the road as a Tech I'd jump at it!!!

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 23 2013, 03:31 PM

yes, this is true. There is a new modality being used to solve this problem that is getting sponsors for their. This makes that people can go free and sponsors pays the musician and overall event for the promotion.

Posted by: Gitarrero Jul 23 2013, 06:23 PM

It is just a hobby for me and it will always be this way
I like my everyday job, and it pays the bills...and if it stresses me out, I just grab my guitar in the evening and am fine again

Posted by: Frankster Jul 23 2013, 06:38 PM

Hi!

For me it is just a hobby. We meet us once a week and try to play a gig once a month.

Few years ago I discussed this thema with my guitar teacher and I´ve said, that I dont understand bands who play for free.
But now I also play for nothing The only money we´ve got was from the tickets WE sold.
But if we say no, we dont play for free, then another band will do this.

Our actual goal for the future is, that we will get enough money to pay the rent of the rehearsal room

Posted by: Headbanger Jul 23 2013, 06:53 PM

it is my meditation,my escape,my personal quest, my choice, my relaxation....getting paid would ruin that

Posted by: Patrik Berg Jul 23 2013, 10:53 PM

it's my career/job. I teach guitar to 72 students every week and play gigs every weekend. As much as I'd like to be playing in a metal band it's only a cover band that does corporate gigs and some pub gigs. I keep myself sane by recording metal riffs that I write and by learning lessons here. It beats concreting.

Example of my mediation
https://soundcloud.com/patrik-berg-2/lets-get-thrashed

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jul 24 2013, 06:30 AM

You have right and if you refuse to play for free another band will do this. Is not enough only some people to refuse to play for free. If all musicians will refuse to play for free then everybody will have money to pay the bills
I can understand that for many bands at start it's a joy to play live and to benefit for any kind of promotion, but this should not became a habit.

Posted by: klasaine Jul 24 2013, 07:53 AM

Sadly, all over the world, it's LONG past being a habit - it's the norm.
I truly hope the 'new modality' that Gab talks about takes hold.

*the arts in general have ceased to be valued by the majority of the worlds population. For many it's because of a lack of food, water and basic human rights. For others it's because an i-phone is the most important thing in their lives.

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 24 2013, 02:45 PM

We should put this in practice! and I think that this is something that can be done at every level (from amateur band to professional bands). Brands make whatever to get promotion and sponsoring shows is something that they are usually interested.

Posted by: tonymiro Jul 24 2013, 05:37 PM

Sadly it's been true for decades, hence the whole Frankfurt School's bit about the role of art in the age of mechanical reproduction. Whilst lots argue they are 'artists' and/or respect and value 'art' they still use kracked software, or illegally resample or don't credit the original material and so on...

Am I bitter? -Yes because just this year so far I've seen 7 specialist mastering studios, 8 mixing studio - including 3 multi rooms - and 14 recording studios close. All of them were engineers whom I've known for years and count as friends. Many now have huge personal debts and no jobs. They have all been replaced by what? Some kid with krackware in his/her bedroom. Look around the internet; it's awash with people claiming to be engineers who have no experience, no equipment, no studio and who only care about taking the money and running. The world turns more slowly and the shadows draw in.

Posted by: klasaine Jul 25 2013, 12:22 PM

Wow. Dark. I like it.

Posted by: Slavenko Erazer Jul 25 2013, 01:18 PM

To Me Heavy Metal is way of life. And if u would get paid for it, why not?

Posted by: Gabriel Leopardi Jul 25 2013, 03:28 PM

Sad but true. While everybody talks about the advantages of being able to record and album in your bedroom and promote your music freely using internet, you pointed out the bad side of this story.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jul 26 2013, 03:26 AM

The writing is on the wall to be sure. It's pretty clear that adapt or die is more prevalent than it has been for quite some time. As costs continue to drop for folks who use cheap hardware/software, e.g a laptop with kracked plugins and headphones, it's going to be hard for traditional facilities to compete. As you mentioned, they are dropping like flies right and left. Right or wrong, this trend is accelerating. So the shops that manage to live through it will have to find ways to adapt and find new revenue streams, reduce costs, etc.

I've noticed one facility near me that has managed to keep above water by combining home/facility. The place where I recorded the GNOSTIC demo, and where MASTADON recorded their breakthrough demo is a studio with 2 small recording rooms and a mix room built in to the basement of this guys house. It's called ledbelly studios.

http://www.ledbellysound.com/page10.html

Just keeping the lights on in a stand alone facility is nearly enough to drown most studios under the weight of daily costs.

The quality of ones work is always important, but as many starting bands with limited funds will tell ya, cheap usually wins. If a email mastering service sends back a result better sounding than the source, many customers will be happy and run with it. Despite the fact that it's nowhere near actually mastered, nowhere near book, etc.

So the lower any facility can get their costs, by any means, (space sharing/time share/rental etc.) the better they will be able to compete as the lower of FREEE continues to encroach.

Todd

Posted by: sumitnxt Jul 26 2013, 06:23 AM

music is my weakness

Posted by: Darius Wave Jul 26 2013, 12:19 PM

Tonymiro - very good point, which I agree with, but just would like to add my two cents.

I think many of serious bands still go to professional sound engeneers. The difference is...some young people can do half-descent quality records at home while they can't afford the studio anyway.

I can also give some other bad example about young bands in studio. They collect very small amount of money. They ain't produce a descent sound from their regular gear, hands and are not able to borrow some descent stuff. Now...they make record that doesn't sound anyway...partly because they didn't even afford to pay the engeneer to correct most of their "lack of expirience and skills" while doing the mix. After 30 minutes of mixing they say "Ok, give it the way it is, We can afford more studio time". But...now goes the worst part...they say YOUR STUDIO SUCKS and play their records to other friends who will not come to Your studio, because of the quality they hear.

From my expirience many young people think that "going to a professional studio" is like a 100% guarantee that their audio recordings will sound descent...while their forget that at least 80% of the record is how the band sound itself.

You can disagree to let that kind of bands record at Your studio but the final result will be the same - less recording sessions.

This is what was happening to one of our local studios. I go there to record and take the raw tracks. I have a respect and a huge distance to my own worspace acoustic conditions and recording gear but the mixing is just a matter of time and private preferences...this is why I like to do it myslef and...I'm also doing this for about 15 years now (I've been lucky o lot to have access to good gear). Of course...I will never compare myself to most of professional guys but I think at that point I can be quite confident about some things I do while mixing and some things I should still learn and trust more expirienced people.

I saw a lot of mentioned situations and I was defending the studio always saying.....It's not the studio who's Your enemy but the time, gear and skills. How do You think - Whatdid this change? Nothing....

...or maybe a few bands who still go there to record and are finally are enough expirienced to know how much can they get from themselfs and how much can help the good studio.