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Posted by: bleez Oct 7 2016, 02:37 PM

Dont know much about them tbh so largely noob Qs

if you have an amp profile of, something like a bluesbreaker, would that profile allow you run the 'amp' clean as well as dirty or do you have a clean profile and a dirty profile of the same amp?

Also, do kemper users tend to use pedals with the profiles or do you get profiles of TS9s and Muffs etc?

Posted by: Wyverex Oct 7 2016, 04:33 PM

If an amp has separate channels you should best create a profile of each separate channel if you want to stay true to the original sound. But in any case the gain knob on the Kemper works like a clean to full gain knob, i.e. even if you created a profile from a high gain channel, you can make it completely clean by turning the knob all the way down which is something you couldn't do on a real amp. So by deliberately using the gain knob you can actually deviate from the real tone. Whether that's desirable for you is a personal question

Can't say much about the effects since I haven't really used them when testing a Kemper some time ago.

Posted by: Rammikin Oct 8 2016, 06:48 AM

Like Wyverex says, the short answer is "yes, you would need 2 profiles". But I'll add: That's the difference between Kemper and an Axe FX. With Kemper you profile one snapshot of an amp/cabinet. It's a faithful rendition of that amp at one setting, but it doesn't model the control behavior of the original amp.

On the other hand, an Axe FX completely models the amp, including exactly how it cleans up when you turn down the gain. The Kemper has conventional amp controls, so you can clean the sound up, but don't expect it to sound like the real thing when you do that.

With a Kemper profile you can quickly get a specific sound that sounds great and there are no limits on how many different amps can be profiled. With an Axe FX you get a complete model of the amp with all the idiosyncrasies of the original. For example, having a full model of the amp allows you to capture things like the way the presence knob on a Bogner interacts with the gain. But you're limited to the few hundred amps that Fractal Audio has modeled.

Posted by: klasaine Oct 8 2016, 07:20 AM

"limited by a few hundred" ... put into 'real' perspective, having even 10 (actual, physical) amps is a lot!
Are there even a few hundred amps (makes and models) in existence?

Posted by: bleez Oct 8 2016, 08:52 AM

axe fx seem quite scarce over here. dont think Ive ever seen one in the usual uk sites. occasionally one pops up on ebay used for a lot of money. They do seem like an excellent unit though.
regarding downloading Kemper profiles, Im guessing the sound will be affected by the guitar / pickups of the person profiling it so is it radically different when you play it through your guitar?
I wouldn't be profiling my own rig I'd need to rely on other peoples.
Is it the norm to use real pedals with it of are the built in effects what folks tend to stick with?

I think Ive only ever had 6 amps in my entire life!

Posted by: Tom51 Oct 8 2016, 09:21 AM

Hi Scott - I found these two vids very interesting...so even the pros were surprised by the Kemper profiler.

Posted by: bleez Oct 8 2016, 09:28 AM

yes indeed those were great. I see chappers and all of Dorje now have kempers!
I would really like to see the guys from 'that pedal show' do a kemper vid, that would be most interesting.

Posted by: Tom51 Oct 8 2016, 09:33 AM

right - and besides the thousands of free profiles there are so many professional profiles made in studios with cool old amps for a few cents available. I am really thinking of selling an amp and a guitar and buy a Kemper instead.

Posted by: Rammikin Oct 8 2016, 01:43 PM

I meant to put a smiley face on that . Here's the list of AxeFX amp models http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Amp:_all_models





The only place to buy a new Axe FX is from Fractal Audio. They have a liberal return policy, so basically you buy one, try it out, then return it if you don't like it.

Yes, you've put your finger on a problem that is always a dilemma with profiles. A Kemper profile sounds true to the original amp when played with the profile creator's gear. For anybody else, it may or may not sound good. An Axe FX is faithful to the original amp and will sound like the original amp no matter what you plug into it.

Kemper includes boost pedal models, but those are not a strong point of Kemper, so it's not unusual for someone to use a real boost pedal in front of it.

Posted by: klasaine Oct 8 2016, 03:47 PM

I know
I was commenting more on what we have access to and even take for granted in guitarland these days. The shear amount of amps, pedals, modelers and decent quality, inexpensive instruments is astounding!

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 8 2016, 08:50 PM

The problem is that all those amps come from the same developer, so you are completely bound to his vision of how a miced amp should sound.



Kemper has modeled the most famous distortion boxes (the ones you mentioned are included). Please note that these pedals are modeled by the kemper team, they are not "profiles". Some people don't think the modeled pedals sound quite like the real thing and some do.

I think they sound fine. But once you realise you can pretty much get any amp in the world, the need for pedals drastically drops. I'd much rather use the amps distortion if it covers my needs.

As far as stomps I mainly use the pure boster, EQ stomp (which thanks to it's powerful dynamics control can be turned into anything) and sometimes a treble booster.

I don't use any external stomps anymore.

Posted by: Mertay Oct 8 2016, 09:32 PM

Years ago I did some beta testing for a software that samples studio gear (helped both the company and 3rd party developers). I'm not in touch anymore but they're doing a pretty good job these days https://www.acustica-audio.com/ .

A good and bad thing in sampling always adds or takes something from the sound. Like, one can place a pedal to the amp and sample them together (or use studio gear to sweeten the responce) to make a good sound-such customisations are what makes things fun. But on the other hand, someone can sample tweaked vst plug-ins and might sell them as sampled analog gear (be careful about that).

In time, it becomes all about the sound and how much you like it-not how close to the real amp is.

With something like an axe-fx there will always be comparing, we also have the custom-ir thing going on too so subjectivity is also involved. An axe-fx feels safer to me while Kemper more exciting.

I demoed the first made axe-fx with a friend about a year ago and honestly prefered vst amp sounds of today I bet people sweared by it that it sounded just like a real amp those days so how will todays axe-fx be 15 years later?

the same firend asked me about the helix and I reminded him our experience+told him to continue inversting on analog gear as he already has a cool setup.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 9 2016, 12:21 AM

I love em all They each have their own quirks which is what makes em cool. I've not owned a Kemper or Axe yet, as I usually keep my budgets around second or third year student money if possible. Hated seeing folks with better gear as a student, just a personal thing, so I try to have wads of semi crap gear To show that it really is in the fingers. Used gear, discontinued gear, 10 year old guitars and processors etc. New bits now and then but nothing crazy typically. I would like to have one of each kemper/axe at some point Once they run about $400 that is. Till then, I'm honestly happy with just a laptop and a a good plugin like TH2, TH3, etc. The rest is really gravy. The one big splurge was my tube myasnikove preamp, which btw cost the same as my pro tone Misha overdrive!!

Todd

Posted by: Rammikin Oct 9 2016, 03:37 AM

I would humbly say Yes and no. Yes, I agree emphasis will shift from mimicing a real amp to getting a pleasing sound.

But I would disagree that it's all about the sound. There are now several digital amp modelers that objectively sound great. That's no longer enough to set you apart if you're trying to impress people with your amp modeler. The area where there is the most room for growth is the features that are peripheral to the sound. Things like user interface, remote control, signal routing, effects complexity, sharing community, DAW integration, etc. That's what will set the best modelers apart in the years ahead.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 9 2016, 05:19 AM

I must say I agree Now that great tone is on tap, it's probably going to be features that separate the units more than anything else. Expandability, variety, customization, etc. Brave new world eh?

Todd

Posted by: Wyverex Oct 9 2016, 08:21 AM

This!

I've been down that route over the last weeks, compared an AX8 with a Helix and a Kemper (although the Kemper only for a few hours, too few to make a final judgement call) because I was looking a for an all-in-one solution. And in the end my choice fell on the Helix. Sound is always subjective but let's be honest, you can get great sounds out of each of those devices. So it's about the features. And the Helix wins hands down for me. Multiple inputs (one passive, one active, one mic), 4 FX send/return paths, multi-amp setup, USB Audio-Interface, MIDI Controller, Expression Pedal, godly usability that just makes you think what the AX8 and Kemper smoked when they designed their UIs. Heck, you can run a guitar, a bass and a mic in parallel with effects (to a certain degree limited by DSP power). It's my main device now and I'm very happy with it. Even thinking about selling my Mini Rectifier now

Posted by: bleez Oct 9 2016, 09:05 AM

thanks for the pedal info, I had been curious about that. Kris, what profiles do you tend to use the most?


TBH I would like to use a real amp and pedals. You know I was gonna buy that amp last year but at the last minute switched to the 11r. I had to accept the fact that I need silent practice 99% of the time.
Maybe the type of sounds Im after are outwith the ability in my fingers

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 9 2016, 12:26 PM

I am constantly exploring, and I try to use a new profile every day, just for variation. For solo my current favorites are from M BRitt and Bert Meulendijk. Our own Guido has done some cool profiles as well which get quite some praise but I haven't gotten to testing them yet.

For metal rhythm I use Sinmix exclusively so far.

I also use many of the top rated profiles in Rig Exchange, like Morgan Ac20 and several others (which I don't remember the name of).

Posted by: klasaine Oct 9 2016, 01:52 PM

Quote from John Suhr, the famous guitar builder ... "practice cures most tone issues".

Posted by: Mertay Oct 9 2016, 03:57 PM

There are product that you can place between the speaker outs to soundcard, they turn the speaker out to line level but they're pricey.

The cool thing about digital is also you get to try all the amps you want and finally have some idea of what the actual amp you'd want, it usually turns out to be something expensive so save cash while exploring



My route was a bit different I guess as the processor got older I prefered to upgrade the weakest things that started to bother me, like buying a soundcard, pedals even software...The afforadble multi-solution in time evolved nicely, specially the analog upgrades can even be considered investments. But I should add that processors were crap compared to the high-end stuff today, I guess we'll wait and see how todays processors will compare to the tech of tomorrow...

Posted by: yoncopin Oct 9 2016, 11:09 PM

I had the same experience and settled on a Helix for the same reasons. These three units all sound great, the routing, features and interface are what set the Helix apart for me. I've been building lots of my own pedals to add my own uniqueness to the base amps and effects. One thing I've noticed in doing that is the analog stuff is definitely noisier than the digital. I love the Helix, I resisted upgrading for a while because of the cost but would definitely do it again.

Posted by: bleez Oct 10 2016, 08:19 AM

so what does the kemper have in terms of inputs?
I assume it will connect to a pc easy enough and has an fx loop?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 10 2016, 08:46 AM

Yes - the Kemper has all you need in a studio environment. Several different programmable physical outputs and digital out (stereo). Stereo FX loop which you can use with your old stomp boxes.

Posted by: Tom51 Oct 10 2016, 08:55 AM

Some great tutorial about the above and more things from Kemper I just watched:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fn3iXGFm8o&list=PLNMu1z8kydORdd_jGuOuXNBN5sGJuZynl&index=3

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 12 2016, 01:00 PM

I'm all for being able to edit with a software app and drag / drop to build patches so I've always appreciated the line 6 software for managing the wads of bits/pedals etc. Also, glad that the Eleven Rack has a good visual software editor Some third party folks have tried to make one for Kemper but last I heard, Kemper didn't have one of their own which seemed a bit odd as nearly every device with a USB port seems to have a software interface to make patches easy and quick to build. Kris has mentioned that the interface is pretty easy to use on the Kemper as it's just not as complicated as the AXE fx or Helix in terms of routing etc. I'm really glad I don't have to edit on that little orange mini screen on the 11 rack though! I had my ipad set as a display so I could could build patches using a touch screen on the 11 which was pretty handy

Touchscreen Control of Eleven Rack Via iPad

Posted by: bleez Oct 30 2016, 09:18 PM

ordered a Kemper
a big purchase for me tbh so I hope it's going to be as good as I imagine Not got a delivery date as the white model is on a preorder but I like the white one as it looks more 'original series start trek' so I dont mind hanging on a bit longer for it.
I need to get better at playing to justify this

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Oct 30 2016, 10:06 PM

hehe what a lovely feeling!

Congrats. I don't think many people at all are dissapointed with it once they understand the unit - but do expect a bit of a learning curve as it's obvioulsy quite different from a tube amp.

Posted by: Mertay Oct 30 2016, 10:21 PM

super congrats!

Posted by: bleez Oct 30 2016, 10:46 PM

Thanks guys. Consider this a heads up as Im sure I'll be bugging both of you for tips when it arrives Im going to do my best to learn how to get the best out of it.
Im super stoked. Cant wait to try out some vintage style profiles from amps Ive no business plugging in to!

Posted by: yoncopin Oct 30 2016, 11:12 PM

I felt the same way when I ordered the Helix, like I didn't deserve it You do man, you play really great. Use it to drive yourself forward with enthusiasm for your new kit.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Oct 31 2016, 06:05 AM

SUPER CONGRATS!! You are actually a "Kemper Guy" from what I have learned about you. I mean that in a good way of course. You appreciate classic guitars and classic amps, the Kemper is as close as you can get to the actual sound of an actual amp with an actual cab, that I've ever heard. The AXE is AMAZING and I"m more of an AXE guy as I"m all about the software control/click on the computer screen, drag and drop, massive fx ability, etc, but for the purist, the KEMPER is Still the way to go IMHO. Even the more hardcore, corksniffing, Tube Only, Junkies, LOVE the Kemper. If can litterally sound like ANY amp and cab ON EARTH. And you can download EVERY AMP/CAB ON EARTH FOR FREE from their web site. So it's like have an unlimited number of amps/cabs that really do sound like the amps/cabs they were meant to sound exactly like. That's the whole point of the KEMPER IMHO.

If you want a profile of a very rare, obscure, amp, you can find it, download it, and have it ready to record in just a few minutes. The AXE FX is a different beast, it has a pre set number of amps that it emulates and most folks tend to use one of the 5150 blocks as it's got wads of gain So you may notice many AXE FX records sounding just a bit similar. They just have fewer amps to choose from and the best sounding ones get used by a lot of people. This isn't a bad thing per se, but I am starting to hear a lot of similarity in certain types of bands/tones that use the AXE.

I plan on buying an axe once everyone else is done with them and my students could afford one, when all the chips they use in them are no longer made But I plan to try to use every amp that isn't being used to try to get my own tone. Sorta like the 11. EVERYONE playing heavy stuff starts drifting to the MESA IIC+ and you can't blame them, but I found myself using the various BOGNERS instead as everyone else was using the MESA. Then I bought an external preamp (THE MYASNIKOV CUSTOM SOLDANO CLONE in the fx loop) so as to have an option that other 11 Rack folks just didn't have.

That's my real point here, make it sound like you

TOdd

Posted by: bleez Oct 31 2016, 07:55 AM

Thanks dude just the prospect of it arriving has got me super motivated to play more!


Yeah, I have classy expensive tastes which are well above my station
Ive been checking out some profiles for bluesbreakers, hiwatt 100's, Dr Z's they all just sound amazing.

Posted by: Wyverex Oct 31 2016, 09:09 AM

Congrats on your purchase! The Kemper just barely lost for me against the Helix (mostly due to connectivity reasons - but I guess it's not really about winning or losing since both are great units). I'm curious to know how you like it

Posted by: bleez Oct 31 2016, 10:21 AM

I like the helix a lot, It sounds brilliant. As you say, both are great pieces of kit. I'd be happy with either tbh. I think the draw of getting as close to vintage amps as Im ever likely to get just shaded the Kemper for me or maybe it was because it looks like it was designed in the 1960's to look futuristic
Im sure Ive seen something similar in the movie 'The Andromeda strain'

Posted by: bleez Nov 2 2016, 09:10 PM

so it arrived! quicker than I expected.

Anyone know how I connect it to reaper, do I need an interface?
I get the impression I cant just use the usb connection like you do with an 11 rack or a pod.

Posted by: Mertay Nov 2 2016, 09:42 PM

That was quick

I'm sure Kris will help as soon as he's online but I feel this is one of those devices you benefit most from reading the boring manual The controls seem nicely designed as I'm looking at photos so I'm sure you'll handle the basics quickly.

Posted by: bleez Nov 2 2016, 10:01 PM

yeah, the manual I got with it is not the best! I dont really know where to start.
Its way more complicated than anything Ive used so far. Took me about an hour just to get the O/S updated
Ive got SO much to learn with this. I need an idiots guide
Played a few of the basic rigs, some of the cleans sounded really nice but the more distorted ones seem too loud and get muddy when you play single notes, Im sure I'll find my way around that at some point.

Ive never owned anything with so many lights

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 3 2016, 07:36 AM

Quick reply: you cant use usb it is not an ouput. Use any of the other outputs (they are labeled as such)

Posted by: bleez Nov 3 2016, 09:32 AM

cool. Im thinking about a scarlett focusrite. Probably the 2i2. Although the 6i6 seems to have SPDIF connections at the back, dunno yet if I need those.
basically it would be - guitar > kemper > focusrite 2i2 / 6i6 > PC ( reaper ). Mainly I'll be using h/phones but maybe getting monitors in the future.
If anything about that looks wrong, let me know
I can pickup the focusrite next week, no rush as I have a hefty learning curve to get a handle on.

Some of the clean profiles Ive had a quick play through have sounded amazing though. Ive been really impressed so far. Its an awesome beast of thing

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 3 2016, 01:26 PM

Congratulations Scott mate, nothing like new gear and that's a mighty fine piece of kit

You've got my GAS going now

Posted by: Mertay Nov 3 2016, 08:30 PM

The 2i4 has midi, can be used for sync'ing delays times with DAW but I'm not sure about spdif (to be honest I can't even remember the last time I used that connection). I guess its best to dig the Kemper forums for info.

As for focusrite they're fine soundcards, sort of a bar standard as they're so popular. Just make sure to get a new generation one (mkll) as they have slightly lower latency than the previous scarlett's.

Posted by: bleez Nov 3 2016, 09:17 PM

Had a trawl through the Kemper forums, the focusrite 6i6 seems to always be in the mix for recommendations. I found a 2nd gen one on amazon for a decent price compared to other places so I just ordered it.


thanks mate and you're welcome
Pretty much blown my 2017 guitar budget already Im telling my Mrs I won the kemper in a truth telling contest

Posted by: Mertay Nov 3 2016, 09:27 PM

Cool, Phil if I remember correct has a similar model as his experience is fresh I'm sure he'll help if needed.



Uh oh...

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 3 2016, 10:24 PM

Yes I have the Scarlett 18i8 and I love it, nice and simple



Sorry

Posted by: Todd Simpson Nov 5 2016, 04:37 AM

I'm sure kemper owners don't care a lick about these things or they would have just bought an axe fx.

After a bit of research I was STUNNED/FLOORED/TAKEN ABACK/AGHAST at the fact that the kemper is NOT, capable of being an audio interface on it's own. Of all the things to leave out? Even the 11 Rack has a full stereo 96hhz usb 2.0 recording interface built in. It's certainly not in the price/feature range of the Kemper. The Axe FX (at least the new one anyway) has a nice stereo usb recording interface built in (though it didn't have it until the recent revision). Does kinda shock me in this day and age that a device of such great cost wouldn't have an interface, AND doesn't have a handy software app, PC/Mac/Tablet or otherwise to edit patches on?

They have mastered TONE, arguably, but left off bits that even line 6 can manage? Just no good reason for that IMHO. A serious oversight he should be corrected ASAP.

Of course, I'm sure Kemper owners don't care a bit that these things dont' exist. I'm not a kemper owner, so I feel free of course to wax on about how it's just nuts that they are not standard. Yup, nuts. But again, just me, not a kemper owner.

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 5 2016, 08:37 AM

Todd - if you care about tone (Kpa users do) you have most likely already invested in a good interface. You'll then just find it annoying to pay for another one in the kpa (+ there is spdif)

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 5 2016, 09:56 AM

I don't get any noticeable latency

Check https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207546885-Latency-Issues-with-Interfaces out particularly the last section, "Zero/Ultra Low Latency Tracking and Direct Monitor"

I've forgotten most of how to best set up a Scarlett because I'm not constantly fiddling but Scott should get to grips with the Scarlett MixControl, it can be useful at times and make things simpler

Posted by: bleez Nov 5 2016, 09:58 AM

I'm not too fussed about the no audio interface thing tbh. Its such a different animal to what I've been using up until now. It's not a deal breaker, it sounds way too good
I got the focusrite 6i6 but I'm away for a couple of days so in can't play with it just now.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 5 2016, 10:16 AM

Hopefully you can read the link in my post while you're away so you're ready for action on your return

Posted by: SpaseMoonkey Nov 5 2016, 01:23 PM

Hello and a good day to all!

I've owned my Kemper for over 4 years! I've only bought 1 amp since I owned it and that was the Mark V:25. I actually sold it as I never used it. Since then I've never even thought of buying a new amp. I may come across a new profile that I really enjoy and just geek out on it.

Cleans/Crunch/Gain, you will need a profile of each. Kemper can clean up and take gain off or on, but something to do with the algorithm it kind of give it a default tone instead of what the amp itself would do. So if you are moving a tiny bit say a 20% change you will be fine just something more extreme and it goes to a stock sound. At that point I just tend to play around with the stomp boxes for the sound. Not that I use the cleans all that often!

My Issues:
I wish it had a program to edit on a computer, just for searching which sounds I want to play with instead of turning a little knob or hitting a button.



I'm not sure where I am in the gen market, pretty sure I'm a 1 or 2. The only problem with my unit I have had which is small but may bother others is the collar ring leds have started to go. Everything else works just like day one.


Guitar > KPA > Interface >DAW. I use to run with the XLR to the mic input was pretty straight forward with just making sure you send out your tone in mono that way you grab all stomps with it. I no longer run with the XLR, reasoning? I tried to have my KPA send a clean and a dirty so I could re-amp things. Needless to say, I couldn't figure it out for myself. No one really talked of how to do it when I tried and I haven't tried since. I am currently running spdif into it, 1 cable and it's set to stereo. I also tend to record in stereo when using certain effects as the utilize that way the best.

Oh and a closing note!


That's how I have my 6i6 setup into Reaper with a buffer of 4.0ms , not sure if the 2nd gen has the same mix controls tho. I haven't had any problems with latency what so ever. The mutes are so that the 6i6 doesn't give live monitoring on top of Reaper.

Posted by: Mertay Nov 5 2016, 06:53 PM

I was also a bit surprised, my guess is aside what has already been mentioned it maybe be using analog sound enhancements right after the sampled signal internally (maybe an exciter or universal clipping stage)

Posted by: Rammikin Nov 5 2016, 07:53 PM

Not only do Kemper not care about it, but I think it's safe to say don't want it. IMHO Kemper owners choose Kemper because they want something that sounds great and is simple. The don't want USB outputs, patch editors, flexible module routing, frequent updates, extensive control from pedals, dual amps, sophisticated effects, etc. Yes, those things are useful, but they come at cost. They make the modeler more complex.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Nov 6 2016, 10:35 PM

Good point!! It would increase the price a bit I'm sure. I can't imagine by much though? Then again, it really is designed to be a TONE MONSTER, not a recording interface. The 11 rack is very similar to a DIGI O2 Pro Tools recording interface that happens to have some guitar modelling, so it's a very different unit. The Axe FX seems somewhere in between. Sorta has features of both, but not as focused on "Amp Tone Monsterism"

Still, I do hope they add the ability to record via usb @96khz as the chips to do it are getting very cheap now, and having it on the road would be handy for touring folks. A laptop and the kemper and bam, portable recording rig!

Also, the software app/ipad/iphone/app, seems like it's gotta be on deck. I'm just guessing though The next version of the kemper could have neither of these things. Not having them hasn't slowed sales a bit. The company has grown like a weed!

Todd

Another good point. This didn't even occur to me. You are, spot on, per usual. It's all about the TONE on the KEMPER and it does it better than pretty much anyone else. It's also a bit more like using an amp, with actual knobs and such, instead of a bluetooth connected ipad, which is just another visual interface to have to learn in order to control it. I"m a iphone/ipad/plugin sorta guy, so I"m all about that kinda stuff But they are really not marketing to me. I bought a used 11 rack.

Posted by: Phil66 Nov 6 2016, 10:51 PM

I know this isn't Scott's version but why 600 watts? I must be missing something https://www.gak.co.uk/en/kemper-profiling-amp-powerhead/80614?gclid=Cj0KEQjwqfvABRC6gJ3T_4mwspoBEiQAyoQPkfKwQdHku3o5e0EdcphZwr2CRP_2h6IbfKWBOfxXyVYaAgZC8P8HAQ

Posted by: bleez Nov 6 2016, 11:01 PM

Thanks for posting those tips. Looks like I'll have the same setup / gear as yourself, very handy to know
I'll be cracking open the focusrite and hopefully will have things up and running soon.

Posted by: Mertay Nov 6 2016, 11:08 PM

From their website; Both the Rack and the Head (black version only) are available with a build in Class D power amp. It produces 600 Watt @ 8 Ohm or 300 Watt @ 16 Ohm. The power amp was designed by renowned IcePower in Denmark. It offers pristine sound quality running linear speakers, as well as running classic guitar speaker cabinets.
The Class D technique makes the most energy efficient power amp solution, emitting only a minimum of heat. That reduces the need of heat sinks, as well as the size and weight. The combination with the Kemper Profiler turns the PowerHead and the PowerRack into a super smart and compact all-in solution.

The wattage to spl I believe isn't the same with traditional amps, this 7'' single studio monitor can uses 150w so I guess 600w isn't so extreme; http://www.adam-audio.com/en/pro-audio/products/a7x/description

Posted by: Todd Simpson Nov 6 2016, 11:47 PM

That ADAM A7X is a powered monitor so it's got it's own 150 watt amp in it. 600 watts @ 8 ohms may seem a bit like overkill, but it's not coming from "tubes" so I'm guessing the transient response needed a bit more power to make it really responsive? Just at a guess though

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Nov 7 2016, 01:14 PM

Exactly, you can't until you have tried one - only then can you determine if it is over-/under- or perfectly priced.

I think a lot of people would agree that a unit which can give you the exact sound of ~ any amp in the world must be worth a lot

Posted by: Mertay Nov 7 2016, 03:17 PM

On Class D amps, what I mainly know is they're ultra transparent.

With guitar amps an important part of the tone is coming from the poweramp (modern amps usually smooths highs, vintage amps distort) but as we already have sampled tone we don't want to add anything thats normally not there. You're right about the transients but bigger size also helps noise and maintain a flatter freq. responce. Bigger is always better with poweramps

Side note; Class D amps really struggled at first when entering hi-fi and studio's. The sounded very unmusical, boring but over the years they improved a lot. I'm expecting to see more of them in time on various guitar related products.

Posted by: Rammikin Nov 7 2016, 03:58 PM

fyi, when I said "cost", I didn't mean the price. I meant if Kemper had features that competitors do, it would be more complicated and more difficult to master. With ever more complicated gear these days, that's an important part of the cost of a new piece of gear that we all must deal with.

I don't know about Kemper sales. They're facing more competitive pressure than ever, and last week the AX8 price dropped $100.

Posted by: klasaine Nov 7 2016, 04:02 PM

It's not so much that class D power amps are more transparent, it's that they're more linear. As in their sonic characteristics don't change (much) as they get louder. You need high headroom capability for that and class D amps are usually up to 90% more efficient than classes A, AB and C amps. This translates to smaller/lighter/cooler ... perfect for a high powered profiling amp like the Kemper. You don't want that beautiful 1968 50 watt Plexi profile to significantly 'change' (due to power amp inefficiency) just because you turn it up or down a 1/2 db.

600 watts (300 per side) is pretty normal for a good stereo power amp and one that can and will handle the 'linearity' needed for a PA, studio monitors and by extension - profiler/modeler amplifiers.