Hey everyone,
Emir and I talked a bit about this and tried to sort it out, but it didn't really work, and now I discovered something new.
To explain the problem to you all:
I have my guitar hooked up through my Pandora PX4D into my Emu 1212m Sound card. When just playing and listening through the speakers of my computer it seems alright in volume, but when I record something, the signal and volume is a lot lower. Even though nothing is put drastically low on the Emu Mixer application (in fact all that can be set to 0 is set to that).
Now I am actually not at my regular computer, as I am visiting my parents, but I brought my guitar and Pandora PX4D with me. I noticed something when playing directly through it and not through my computer - it is DRASTICALLY louder. So loud I had to put the Pandora to half it's volume.
I am wondering if there might be something wrong with my audio card (I have three PCI slots in my computer, if I recall correctly) and I use one for the 1212m and one for the 0404m which came along with the 1212m. It shouldn't really make any difference which slots they are in, should it?
Besides that - could it just be due to quality loss through the cables? To get it hooked up to my computer I have to first have a transformer making the one output on the Pandora to a small-ish one which has stereo, then again make those large jacks to enter the right/left input on the Emu Sound card. I tried with just one cable through and make it go directly from the Pandora and to the sound card with no weird ways around it - just plain mono then, but the signal and input was still a lot lower than when playing directly through the Pandora with the head phones plugged into that, as I have it now.
Any suggestions what this can be? I do not think that it has ever been any other way, I just hadn't paid that much attention to it untill now.
Check the settings on your sound card maybe there is a line in amplification setting or volume? Make sure your drivers are up to date as well
Can you see the meter in the PatchMix application? What does it say? Does it go to yellow color on the meter? Can you increase the volume of the signal that Pandora is sending to the 1212m, so that the card gets a strong signal?
Also what do you use for recording?
When I'm playing through my computer my Pandora is set to 10 out of 10 in volume. Then the volume is in line with the most backing tracks etc. When I record and listen the recorded lead is much lower though.
If I unplug the Pandora from the computer and play just through the Pandora with headphones the 10 out of 10 blows my ears off!
Drivers are up to date, and the line in right and left is set to be alright.
Ivan: When watching the meter it goes to about -5 to -10. All dependent on how I turn up and down the AUX settings of the line in right and left. If I put those above 0 (say to between 3 and 6) it becomes about -2 and -5. When recording and listening it is better, but still not as when playing with just headphones and Pandora.
From my experience it seems something is either wrong with how I set up the hardware or something wrong with the software and inputs.
I use Cubase or Audacity by the way. Happens in both programs.
It must be something with channels on E-MU mixer.
Have you set everything to 0, each individual channel and master mix?
Level on input channels is only level of monitoring, not actual recording level.
If it's set below 0 you hear it less loud comparing to recording level,
and once you play what you recorded it goes to master mix
which reproduces it in real level if you have everything set to 0
in Cubase or Audacity of curse.
I have E-MU 1820m tho but I guess the mixer is pretty much the same
or it works on same rules if nothing else.
There must be something wrong with your settings, the hardware should work fine. Let's go step by step:
Check out the first picture. I plug the guitar in the left channel strip. Click on the first insert (the one with an arrow. In the TV Screen you will see the meter in more detail. This is where you monitor the signal as it comes from Pandora. It should be in the YELLOW area from -10dB to somewhere around -2dB, but NOT in the RED area. If the signal is bellow the -10dB then the signal is too weak from the Pandora.
Let me know what do you see on your meter as I've showed you here.
On the second picture there is a mixer from Cubase. There is only one bus created, and that is the send from the PatchMix that sends the guitar signal. When the signal is healthy in PatchMix, you should trim it with the fader of the Cubase input channel bus so that the peaks are somewhere in the red circle are, but NOT clipping.
Now, I don't have my computer with me here, so I cannot really check it, but I recall it as being around -15, if all things from the mixer is set to default. If I put everything to 0dB it rises a bit, to maybe between -10 and -5. Still when recording though, the signal is very low. The only solution I've found to this is raising some settings to above 0, which of course isn't the right solution.
If I can find the right cables I'm going to hook my Pandora up through my mother's old laptop, which I've used before.... I think the signal is fine there.
One thing I've come to notice on my own computer though... as the Emu won't work unless you have the Emu Mixer Application installed, you can only alter things in that. However if I open up the Windows Mixer, choose the Emu Sound card and then input, it is only set to about half volume, and I cannot alter it as it is grayed out. I hope that makes sense.
It's been a while since I tested it, but I actually do think the problem is also there if I just use my onboard sound card to record through.
Just wanted to add another thing - I'm using Windows Xp 64 bit, though I'm not sure how relevant it is, but it has caused a few problems with some drivers, but I don't remember any problems with the EMu driver.
Well -10 to -5 is a GOOD thing!
Just make sure that the signal is properly fed into the DAW, I have a feeling that the problem is there.
Yeah, but where do I adjust that?
On a side note, what about the fact that the Windows Mixer says that the input from the is only set to about half of the bar? I would like to see what it would be like if that was set to full instead of just half.
As it is now the volume from the Pandora is still drastically lower when going through the computer than when I play with headphones through the Pandora. I compare these with the volume of the backing track. So I think in general there is a volume loss when entering the computer, and that could be due to that mixer not being put to full?
I don't know if you know what I mean though.
Now, as said earlier, I know that one does not use the Windows mixer with the Emu sound card, but the fact that I can still choose and see that it is only at half level in the Windows Mixer must mean something I geuss? I cannot do anything to alter it though, as it is grayed out. The above picture is just to try and give you a hint of what I'm talking about, as that's not the actual picture.
Can you please give the actual picture? You can print screen it, and save it in paint or photoshop easily.
You adjust the volume in DAW as I described it the eariler post here on the topic, on the picture 2, here:
http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?showtopic=25165&view=findpost&p=346286
I cannot give you a picture before I'm home late tomorrow. I'm pretty sure the input level on the DAW is as it should be though. Wouldn't it by default be as it should?
As the volume gets lower as soon as I hook it up to the computer, wouldn't it most likely be something to do with how Windows "recieves" the sound?
It could be, but that may not be the only reason. I advise that you check out both options, both the windows mixer and the Cubase mixer, possibly if you could play something and let the meter jumps and screensave in that moment. I know it's a lot to ask, but it would help us seeing the things you see on your PC.
Aaah, I see, I thought you were a bit closer, sorry!
Well, I think this is not a big problem, it's something in the mixer settings, either PatchMix, or Windows, or Cubase. We won't find out until you sit on the machine and tell us, so when you do mate, we'll be glad to help of course!
This is the Windows Mixer thingie I'm talking about:
And this is what the Patch Mixer looks like with everything put to zero and my Pandora cranked all the way up in volume. If I then unplug the Pandora from the computer and play through headphones I have to turn down the volume on the Pandora as it's then WAY to loud.
And finally this is what I get in Audacity:
The signal only becomes stronger if I turn up the AUX's on the Patch Mixer to above 0.
Anyone?
EDIT: and here is what happened after getting it hooked up through my onboard sound card:
And that is with the Pandora at only half volume.
OK, this helps a lot.
First, the SUM mixer in windows is not important for guitar recording. Mine stands on a same place as yours, and this is not I think the issue.
Also, the signal is reasonably loud in your PatchMix mixer. I see no problem there. The card is receiving a good signal, but I want you to try to change the input and output line settings. Try both +4 and -10 values to see if there is any increase. Let me know what happened please.
It all becomes even weaker at +4dB. It is at 10dB in all pictures.
I've tried installing Windows XP 32 bit again. I can't remember having the problems in that before, so I'm currently installing drivers etc. Will let you know how it turns out.
Ok mate.
Also, wanna ask you couple of more things:
1. When you play the Pandora through 1212m, how does it sound? Is it weak?
2. Have you tried increasing the input channel volume in DAW?
1. It sounds weaker than when played through headphones just and not through the 1212m, but not as weak as when hearing what has been recorded.
2. Yes, but it didn't help very much. Maybe 5% increase.
Just a few more notes:
The strong signal shown before was from the onboard sound card with the Pandora at half volume. The same volume on the pandora gives me -30dB in the Emu mixer, where as the picture from the onboard shows that the signal coming from the Pandora should be much stronger than that.
Have you tried inserting a Trim Control before the send in PatchMix?
Try this:
1. Right click on the inserts in guitar input strip, and choose "Insert Trim Control"
2. Adjust the signal so it becomes louder
3. Put the Trim Control Insert before the Send insert on the strip
The trim control worked wonders, Ivan! Thanks a lot! Then I would not have had to reinstall everything probably.
hehe, cool mate, I was thinking about before, I regret now cause I didn't mentioned earlier, but it's cool that the problem is gone now! Let me know if you need anything else.
Also soon I will have your video comment ready. Sorry for being late!
Cheers!
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