Caelumamittendum - Improvising Workshop Options

[Darius Wave]

Hey Ben! Let work on the improvising field. Let's first review Your. Tell me a bit about how advanced You are in notes position all over the neck. Basic minor/ major scales and modals. What key You feel is the most friendly by far ?

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Hey Ben! Let work on the improvising field. Let's first review Your. Tell me a bit about how advanced You are in notes position all over the neck. Basic minor/ major scales and modals. What key You feel is the most friendly by far ?

Hey Darius,

I am most comfortable in A minor/C major, D minor/F major, B minor/D major and so and so in others, but not so good in G# major/minor, F# major and so on.

I know the theory behind the modes, but I am not so good at bringing forth the actual colours when I improvise if that makes sense. I know which notes should be brought to the front to say "this is dorian" (the raised 6th compared to aeolian), but I'm still struggling with it when actually playing and I have less time to think.

But I would like to be more comfortable with creating themes in improvising, creating motifs, and becoming more comfortable all over the fretboard. And also using my ear!

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[Darius Wave]

First thing is self control - I mean NEVER start playing with fingers before Your mind is not connected with the track. It's good to think about "how I will start my solo" already on the chorus just before solo etc...If we speak about regular songs. Also...laying a few slow notes at the beginng helps to fill into the mood. Maybe let's form making some example improvisation on one of Your familiar backing tracks (other than te one from chat sessions)

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

I've never been used to analyzing much first, so I think it's something we can definitely work on. I always just play without thinking too much and sometimes that means trouble. So I'm not good at approaching different chords with the matching licks, mode or similar... or listening to the backing track, if you know what I mean.

How about this one:



Or is it too similar to the one you have used in the chat? I've had a look at the chords and I think it goes something like:

Dm7 Gm7 (or is it a sus2?) C(sus something?) Fmaj7 Dm7 Gm7 Em7b5 A7.

Maybe I've got the 7ths wrong and there are some 9ths in there as well.

If those are the chords, I would like to be able to approach it with playing D aeolian over the first chords and then when the Em7b5 comes in perhaps play locrian #2 from Melodic minor (the 6th mode of melodic minor, so in this case G melodic minor) and D harmonic minor over the A7 chord. But I don't feel quite comfortable doing these things yet, unless I maybe plan it out in advance to only play very slowly.

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Oct 10 2013, 12:30 PM

[Darius Wave]

The way of improvising You mentioned is more a jazz-like thinking way. There are different approaches to improvising. To be honest I would never try to learn all those things at the same time. I usually take one or two licks for some period of playing and try to place them anywere that's possible. I'm trying to where can they fit. After some time I just hear a moments in my head where the lick boomes a good connection. Do You have Your favourite lick from the last practice time? Share it with me and we'll try to make it "my way" I mean fit it to the different places of chord progression and name it's role in there

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Maybe we could find another track, cause I'm really not liking this one at all to be honest I'll see if I don't have one on my computer I could use.

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[Darius Wave]

Write me some influences, artist You feel most comfortable to improvise over their stuff. I'll search something perfect for the trip

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Write me some influences, artist You feel most comfortable to improvise over their stuff. I'll search something perfect for the trip

Well, I like backing tracks like this:



My playing was all over the place though.

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[Darius Wave]

What do You think about this one? Good one to practice minor, dorian and harmonic minor modes of the same root nota - A? Also an extra practice of shuffle groove and different thinking about rhythm developement

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Oh, that one sounds really nice and right up my alley!

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

All over the place, and I didn't mean to jam on the whole track, so it gets a bit boring to listen to after a while.

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[Darius Wave]

make short analyzis.

1. What notes are constant and what notes we have to replace at particaler moments? write them down
2. Including some shuffle we need to really feel that triplets in Your playing. You now...You can borrow right hand working from basic blues rhythm 1 - 3 1-3 1-3. Try to buils some short phrases over this rhythm - make those 16th notes triplets without every "2" middle note.

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Hey Darius,

I was thinking maybe we could talk a bit more about the collab solo. What's good, what's bad etc. Here's a new updated version:

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[Darius Wave]

Sorry for the late response Ben. Somehow I missed the notification of Your last response :/ I've seen Your solos in the collab topic. Those are really good one and there is nothing much to complain...aside from individual preferences. The only thing that makes me wonder is Your consciousness of those sweeps run. Do You think You are able to write them down being 100% sure of the rhythm values they are build of ?. One of the very important aspects in my case is the 100% confidence of what I play. I don't suggest You play random notes - to be honest most of Your playing is tasty i rethoughted but at this particular field I fill some lack of that confidence.

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Hey Darius,

No worries, man. Yeah, the sweeps are something I'm still working on. Notewise I know what I at least meant to play, rythmically it's a bit more uncertain cause it was difficult to fit in, so it's more of a "start on this and end on this"-thing, if that makes sense. The last set of sweeps would probably be something weird like 11-tuplets or something. But I'm working on getting it a bit better into position.

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[Darius Wave]

Great You understand that issue so well I do have similar approach but always try to get back to those "unnamed" values and try to figure out what exaclty I would like to play there. Sometimes removing one note solves the problem...(or adding...whatever) It's like You feel comfortable with a lick that was designed for triplets but somehow the triples are a bit too slow for this track and the 16th notes seems to be already to fast. That's how most of those issue appear. I would go back to those licks and try to experiment. Maybe for example some of the notes quantized to triplets, some other to 16th notes and You can get a brand new, nice lick for Your future playing too

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

Can we talk a bit about tone, Darius? I know you've mentioned it more than once, but I'm not entirely sure what to do about it when push comes to shove. I'm using Guitar Rig 5. Are you familiar with that?

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[Darius Wave]

Yes of course Your tone has too much of unpleasant high mids while listening at higher volume. You roll of a lot of treble so it's focused on the middle but also even if You choose that type of tone You need to find god balance. If You have a huge boost in very narrow range Your guitar will sound too loud on some speaker sets or too quiet...depending on what is the frequency response of the audio gear.

Most of us find pretty easy to get the satisfying tone on Your own set of speakers but...it doesn't mean it sounds similar on other. This is why we have to think of something way further than just the place we listen to the music. Your tone is not that bad...it's just too satin/dark and it has not details in treble end. Let's try to get one that still fit Your taste but is more versatile. At first I need You to post a detailed screen of EVERY SINGLE setting for Your tone, including DAW EQ.

second I need a raw sample of You guitar (line in signal You bring to DAW) and a mixed through plug-ins as well (2 files)

I will analyze this try to suggest You some markers (precise frequencies) where You could try to look for the balance.

Very often it's a war like "decibel for a decibel" - You can away 1dB from one range then add 1dB to other.

Usuall spots are around:

200 Hz - definition for rhythm guitars but for solo can make a bit too much mess

500 Hz - body od the tone and most of root frequencies - essential but if there's too much of it You get muddy and "boxy" tone

1 -2 kHz - here is the sweet spot for guitars

4- 6khz - harsh harsh harsh....but if You cut too much of those You will loose a "breath" as well.

There is also a huuuuge relation to the raw tone of Your amp / amp sim. Some of those have really nasty treble and You can get a good compromise to keep the breath but in the same time...get rid of annoying "pin in the ear"

I think I Your case a best solution might be to find different amp or cab simulation and let yourself lead You to similar tone. This might be the best solution. I will try to suggest some alternatives while I'll have Your raw guitar track.


Do You have an ability to use Poulin plug-ins as well?

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[Storm Linnebjerg]

I don't know if these are the files you are looking for, but let me know if I've missed anything:

Here is totally clean, no effects:

 clean.mp3 ( 547.49K ) Number of downloads: 143


Here is with Guitar Rig:

 With_guitar_rig.mp3 ( 547.49K ) Number of downloads: 151


And then here is a picture of my setup in Guitar Rig:



I don't use anything else for recording than that. And then Cubase of course, but I don't use anything inside cubase besides guitar rig.

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This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Jan 9 2014, 02:26 PM

[Darius Wave]

I'll check the files while I'll be at home.

Now...WOOOOWWW!!!! ...Man...DO YOU REALLY NEED all this stuff I chain? Or...please tell me it's not all turned on at the same time.

I can guess Twang is a Fender type of sim which has some of the pin's in it tone like a true Fender does. I would start from removing all the compressor, limiter, reverb, delay, booster (green), additional eq.


it a huuuge mess in there

We need to go back to the roots

1. Make a backup of Your current preset
2. Make copy and remove everything besides amp sim and cab sim
3. Imagine Yourself being in the room with real amp.
4. Try to get as close as possible to the type of the tone You want, using only amp selection, amp eq and cab match. At this point don't try to plug any single additional fx. Remember - just like in a real life...switch between different amps and mess with EQ only.

Don't care about the articulation response yet!

FOCUS ONLY ON THE TONE COLOR

Try to get the warmth but keeping a bit of breath in treble as well. We will get to the articulation later.

If Your distortion is based on the tube screamer type (green one) and connected to "fender like amp" this could be the reason. Usually You will get same warmth but way pleasant tone by adding low pass filter in Cubase and using amp simulation based on some marshall type. Don't be aware of the huge amount of treble while working on the amp sim + cab sim only combination. This is how real amps act in the studio. Most of the warmth You get is a post processing (daw eq) why? Because at the mixing stage You could realize You took a bit too much of something that You need later..and You can bring it back.

Raw guitar amplifiers sound pretty bright (even with the tone roll off). Now You sound to me like a person that grew on multiple effect's, solid state drive always fully packed with mids and almost none treble. Now...let's try to find a compromise.

Again.

Amp sim + cab sim...nothing more. Mess only with amp settings as long as necessary until You decide You're not able to get anything better (even if it'still not exactly the tone You would like to have)

we need to start from the roots.

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