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Posted by: bleez Jun 6 2015, 08:15 PM

I got a pod hd500x, had it about a week so I have a few days left to decide if Im keeping it or returning it. Im not very experienced at dialling in tones so there's a big learning curve but I could do with some opinions on the basic tone Ive been trying to create.
I was trying to get a bluesy rock type of tone. I would really love to get a sound like this dude has -

his lead kicks in around the 18 second mark. This tone is for sale and I would just buy it but I know it wont sound like that when I play through it.

I tried to get something similar and also add in an overdrive to boost the lead when more rawk is required
I didn't really come close but Id love to get feedback on how I could improve it, I dont really know what to tweak anymore!
Here it is on its own with no backing, first the basic tone and the overdrive kicked on at 0.30.


what do you guys reckon, my tone doesn't really 'sing' like the dude in the vid. any thoughts?

Posted by: Kristofer Dahl Jun 6 2015, 10:46 PM

I think your tone sounded great. I am not sure his was so much better, though the comparison is unfair since he has a backing.

To get more 'singiness' i would first boost the input signal,mpreferably with a pure booster that just makes you guitar pickups hotter.

Reverb/delay can also give the singy effect, but keep it short and subtle.

Finally a midrange scoop can give the impression of a more fluid tone, but this is dangerous territory as you're mostly fooling your ears. Gentle scoops are nice though and can 'open up' your sound and make it easier to play fluid lines.

Posted by: Mertay Jun 6 2015, 10:59 PM

I don't know the processor, but if I had to tweak your tone to his I'd probably start with decreasing your gain (probably amp first if there's overdrive) and as post eq (after the cab., if not possible after the amp as the eq shouldn't hit any saturation/overdrive) increase 2-3khz range and lower the overall output.

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 7 2015, 02:22 AM

I also have a 500x. It's pretty easy to use. Did you download the pod program for the desktop, you can tweak all the setting without having to reach for the pod.
And did you learn how to use left and right amp models to mix the different amp and cab models?
I start by finding the amp and cab combination I like first before adding any effects, the cabs have a huge impact on tone by the way.

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 7 2015, 04:16 AM

And by the way I think your tone is very good. And it will only get easier to find what your looking for as you get more comfortable with the pod.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 7 2015, 04:58 AM

Hehehe Small world!! The guy who's tone you like is the dude from CHOPTONES I have been working with them building "METAL/BRUTAL" Preset packs for the 11 rack. Building great patches is just like building great guitar solos. Takes wads and wads and wads of time.

If you keep your line 6 you will eventually be able to knock out patches like that in your sleep. But it's a process. The quickest way would be to buy the choptones patch bank, find out how they build theirs and tweak it to your taste

Without seeing how he built that patch, here are some things to try. (just in general)
1.)go easy on the amp gain/drive.
* this is the first mistake folks make. It muds up the tone.
* Use a low/mid gain amp and use very little gain on the boost. The line 6 amp models are notorious for turning to mud when you even look at the gain knob.

2.)experiement with cabs/mics
*this is the most overlooked part of tone tweaking in my experience.

3.)Use double rigs
*you can set one rig a bit cleaner and mix it in for clarity.

BTW your tone isn't bad at all and honestly that patch would get downloaded by many folks if you share it on the line 6 forum
Also, are you using the software interface to build patches? Its wads easier than squinting at the pod screen.

Posted by: bleez Jun 7 2015, 02:21 PM

Thanks for the input I tried to make a few tweaks based on the suggestions. Although there a couple of things, I dont really know what a midrange scoop actually means and also adjusting frequencies is another part Im not sure how to do. I have an EQ in the chain but it's switched off as I didnt know what to do with it!

Here's a quick demo of the current tone with a backing -
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/tonetest2

here's a screen shot of the chain and amp settings -
[attachment=42154:chain.jpg]
[attachment=42155:amps.jpg]

So far Im actually quite pleased with it but do you guys hear anything that could be fixed, tbh Im not even sure I have the effects in the best order.
also, do you think it sits in the mix okay?

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 7 2015, 08:58 PM

I think your tone is very good maybe lay off the gain just a bit. The pod is a pretty awesome processor. Sounds great bleez.
Like you I don't know what all the eq shit means either I just turn knobs and listen for such one removed the frequencies I'm trying to cut out or increase, but I'll be reading this thread for the pros to chime in so we both can learn something.

Posted by: bleez Jun 8 2015, 12:54 PM

thanks dude.
yeah, you're probably right about the gain. I always use too much gain and/or distortion. I think its because Im trying to get some decent sustain, there's probably a better way to achieve it but Im not too sure.

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 8 2015, 01:03 PM

Try the compressor.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 9 2015, 07:32 AM

THe EQ might be simpler if you picked a GRAPHIC EQ (Is that one of your fx options?) instead of Parametric. If you pick a graphic EQ, if one is available, you just move the sliders to make a "smiley face" and that's a mid range scoop

LINE 6 POD HD OWNERS JUMP IN HERE!!!!

One the 11 Rack you can use either graphic eq (sliders) or parametric eq (knobs). The graphic is probably the most simple eq for folks new to EQ. I'm sure there are some line 6 folks around that can pitch in here.

Posted by: bleez Jun 9 2015, 08:23 AM

yeah, there is a Graphic EQ available Ive not tried it yet but I'll give a go, cheers.
This is all the EQs listed in the model -

Graphic EQ
Parametric EQ
Studio EQ
4 Band Shift EQ
Mid Focus EQ
Vintage Pre

you can also adjust SAG, Low Cut and Thump parameters - none of which I am familiar with as yet

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 10 2015, 02:51 AM

do you mean you can see the curve of the EQ? on the pod you just turn knobs cant see the curve like you can in logic. i would like to know how to use the eq properly also. i just turn shit till it sounds good

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 10 2015, 03:24 AM

Well, the GRAPHIC part in graphic eq typically yields an e.g. with some sliders on it (though not an absolute truth) just like the graphic / slider EQ on the sooooooooo lovely (making me want to sell my kidney) MESA MARK MINI



Here is a quick vid on EQ. It's inside a daw but hopefully the concepts make some sense We can hear roughly 20hz (low bass) to about 20khz (high pitched whine) and eq just varies the amount of boost or cut at any given frequency from low to high

There it is The graphic eq should do fine. It may have knobs instead of sliders but hopefully they work like a graphic should. IN a graphic eq each knob/slder has a set frequency value. E.G. Set a 120hz (bass) or something. And by turning the knob/slider, lower, you reduce the amount of volume at that particular frequency. I also replied with a youtube vid that might help

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 10 2015, 03:49 AM

i love love love that amp!!!
i watched a demo on it, and its a amazing amp!! i may try to sell my mini rec for that.
back to graphic EQ this is what it lloks like for the pod

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 10 2015, 07:43 PM

Got it They are just using knobs instead of sliders. The values for which range is being affected is pre set for each knob (e.g bass/mid/upper mid/etc.) so you are turning the knob to get either boost (louder) or cut (reduction)

Think of each knob as a slider. negative value for cut, positive value for boost. MID SCOOP would mean putting a negative value on the knobs in the middle with the knob closest to middle having more cut than the others. On a slider based graphic eq this would look like a smiley face. Just like on the picture of the Mark Mini

Those are just killer amps aren't they? I have yet to spend any time with one but I'd really like to

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 10 2015, 10:05 PM

Thanks Todd. My ears tell me what they do but have no idea on what there called, like mid scoop, now I do.
The settings I have in the picture where to decrease the low end and bring up the treble or would you say highs?
What about the last 2 knobs that say 1 kHz and 2 kHz?

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 10 2015, 10:43 PM

I think there are 5 knobs? Put the middle knobs negative put the outer knobs positive. Use more or less/pos/neg to taste and bingo mid schoop You are just scooping or lowering the mids.

Here is a quick reference on EQ for guitar. Of course, folks will probably post that it's ALL CRAZY but it a good reference imho


Electric
In general, I find a light hand with broad strokes to be most effective on electric guitar, if any EQ is applied at all other than some filtering. If you do decide to go hunting, however:

• 80 to 90 Hz and below - Mud: Lose it, crush it with your HP filter. There's pretty much nothing useful down here, and it will almost always just equate to flabbiness and noise in your tone
• 150 to 200 Hz - Thickness: This is where the "guts" of a guitar normally come from, but again, can quickly cloud a mix on you. Use sparingly, perhaps automate to add sweetness to a solo section or an exposed part, and then tuck it away when things thicken up again
• 300 to 1,000 Hz - Life: I call this the "life" of the electric, as many of the things that make an electric sound like an electric live in this range. So attenuating needs to be taken into consideration carefully. Too much though, and you start fighting with your snare and things like that, so take note
• 1,000 to 2,000 Hz - Honk: This is where honky and harsh characteristics can usually be smoothed out with a wide cut centered somewhere in this range
• 3,000 to 8,000 Hz - Brilliance and Presence: This is the range that can add shimmer or allow a guitar to cut through a mix when boosted. It can also be where you make cuts to keep a guitar from conflicting with a vocal. If making boosts in this range, keep an eye (ear?) out for noise, as any noise present from distortion/effects pedals will very quickly be accentuated as well

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 11 2015, 12:23 AM

Thanks for the reference.
But now I'm confused.
As you can see from my screen shot there are knobs that are labeled 80hz, 120hz, and 240 hz.
Each knob increases or decreases the db of each frequency.
So what I got from the reference you posted that 80-90hz is mud, so would I try turning the knob all the way down? When I do that it completely cuts the low frequencies.
I think I'm just gonna add the graphic eq to all my patches and not bother with the others till I understand it.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 11 2015, 04:48 AM

If you only have 3 parameters, you can't really afford to kill one. The reference was more general. If you have a nice parametic eq or a full 10,20, 30 band graphic eq, you can kill 90hz with no problem and just kill 90hz.

With only three knobs/sliders on a graphic eq, you can't get away with that. If you wanted a scoop, you'd turn the middle knob down and the left/right knobs up

With a parametric eq you get a knob to select a given frequency (say 90hz) then you get a knob for boost/cut, and another knob for for "CUE" or focus. The last knob determines if the cut / boost is very tight (just 90hz) or very loose (like a big bell curve dragging other frequencies with it)

WIth the reference I posted, your better off using something a bit more capable than a 3 band eq. PIck a better eq option with more variability and then follow the reference The "MUD" can go away if you have control of the rest of the signal. But if you pull down 90hz and pull everything near by with it, as would happen if you only have 3 bands, you'll just get thin sound. No good.

One thing with high gain sounds is that you want to trim the low end BEFORE the gain stage to tighten it up if you want a modern heavy sound. Otherwise, there is so much mud that its just flubby sounding, like stoner metal/sludge/orange amps with no pre eq etc.


Your best option might be the STUDIO EQ to better allow yourself more flexibility to try what's in the reference above. I found this web site with a really spiff description of getting good hard rock tones on all the EQs in line 6 pod. I had a POD XT once and tried every patch, every EQ and simply could not cut the mud out of the high gain tones so I had to get rid of it.

http://www.foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/eq#effects-studio
Here is a pic of my old pod

Posted by: bleez Jun 24 2015, 09:03 AM

needing a bit of help with this tone. I dont know what Im lacking to get it more like Chris'. Accepting the fact that Im not in the same league playing wise. Im not sure what the correct terminology is but the tone in the lesson is way tighter, maybe brighter? its like glass. my tone is kinda nasel in comparison, almost like ive got a wah slightly cocked. my tone is looser and more 'woofy' thats a word, right?
I dunno what im talking about! Why is my tone more ass-like in comparison?

*excuse my dodgy playing
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/bend-tone


http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bendy-Blues/

any help would be appreciated

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 24 2015, 11:31 AM

When I posted the reply to the last video I did I said I was using a graphic EQ, I was wrong I been using the studio EQ.
I know what you mean by glassy I think. You mean the higher notes sound like they ring more clearly without the lows drowning it all out? Cause that's how I would describe what I've been trying to accomplish with getting a good EQ and hearing the notes stand out clearly.
The studio EQ has 3 knobs, and 2 drop down menus to chose frequencies for high and low. I play along with whatever I'm trying to match tones with and I mess with the frequencies to find something that's getting closer, then when I'm happy with my choice I fine tune it with the gain knob for both high and low. Then I adjust the overall gain. Of course I mess with the amp settings to, but not as much as the EQ. Also I been sticking with the sm57 and 87 condenser mic.
While messing with the gain knob of the studio EQ you can add highs to come through and take away the low end or add some to make it all sound even.
I don't know if I'm doing this right or if my explanation makes sense but that's the best way I can put it as I, new to this to.

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jun 24 2015, 03:38 PM

You have right and Chris has a brighter tone. Anyway you will have a difference in tone because of different guitars and pickups. Chris play on a Fender Standard Tele and from the start he already have that brightness in sound. Also he used that Way Huge Supa Puss analog delay which sound very cool and make the tone sound more "opened". In Guitar Rig it's easy to replace this pedal, making a combination between Psichedelay and Vintage Verb. Also in this way you will get a warm tone.

Your tone it's not bad at all but has that "like in the box" sound for this lesson. I don't know how to explain better but it's a little dry, doesn’t have enough air (comparing with the lesson).
You used in The Eye Opening collab a very cool tone that I love it, which had that "open" sound that I am talking about. I would try to go on the similar idea of settings. Also I would tweak more with delay and reverb for this lesson

Posted by: bleez Jun 24 2015, 07:17 PM

yeah, makes sense dude Ive been going round in circles with the EQs and frequencies the sm57 and 87 condenser are the mics I tend to favour as well, they do sound kinda cool. I'll experiment with the studio eq, see how it goes


Thanks Monica. Totally agree about that reverb, the one in the lesson is fantastic. I think I have a vintage style one, I will experiment with it.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 25 2015, 01:18 AM

Perhaps a pinch of "room tone" E.G. Sudio/Room Reverb and then a bit of bass cut before the primary gain stage? Can you put an EQ of some sort before you get to the overdrive/amp stage? Trimming bass before the gain stage will keep it from being boomy and make it sing a bit more and then you can eq bass on top of the signal during the amplifier stage and after it as well. Also, perhaps a bit of a bump on your treble at any point in the chain.

Posted by: bleez Jun 25 2015, 07:55 PM

yes, I can put eq before the amp although Im not 100% sure which one is best for cutting the bass. Here is the chain after I made a couple of changes based on what Monica and DCZ suggested, I basically added in an analogue delay and the studio eq ( not that I know how to work it! )



which is - gate- para eq- studio eq - amp - spring reverb - room reverb - analogue delay

it sounds like this -
https://soundcloud.com/bleez666/tonetest

Im actually using my Sweet Cream overdrive pedal before the pod ( guitar > pedal > pod ) but I can add it into the effects loop and place it anywhere if necessary.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 25 2015, 09:39 PM

One tip, for the PRE EQ, maybe set the frequency down a bit. It looks like it's set to 500 Hz. Try to take it down to 300 or 250. Then play with how much cut you need by playing solo type licks on the lower strings and use a bit of palm mute. If it sounds muddy/boomy, reduce the percentage (not the frequency knob) a bit more til it sounds "tight".

Then increase the bass on the AMP so that it still sounds "warm" and "full" This should tighten the sound a bit and allow the "singing" quality once you apply a bit of compression (before the amp) and a bit of overdrive (before the amp as well). Let me know how that goes

Posted by: Monica Gheorghevici Jun 26 2015, 05:53 AM

Now you have that "opened" sound and I like this very much But...we need to think more because still isn't similar with the lesson.
One question: It’s possible in pod HD500x when you choose the amp, cab and mic model to choose the position for the microphone?

Posted by: bleez Jun 26 2015, 07:04 AM

I agree, the delay still needs tweaked. I will try some of the other delays to see if they are better.
I dont think its possible to choose the position of the mic. I cant find an option for that. There are some cab edit options which Ive not yet tried ( (Low Frequency Cut, Resolution Level, Thump, & Decay) there is also and ' early reflections' switch to add more reflective room sound..... I still need to experiment with those because I have no idea how they effect the tone

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 26 2015, 07:53 AM

I never tried putting eq before the amp I though typically it would go right after the amp and that how I been using it. I haven't been using more than one eq, to keep the tone simple and not get overwhelmed with knobs. Also I use reverb last in the chain. There is also a effects loop you can add in the chain haven't used it yet though. Curious on why you chose to use 2 reverbs.
Do you know if placing effects after the amp would mean they are in the effects loop?

Posted by: bleez Jun 26 2015, 08:29 AM

I had been reading through that site that todd posted a while back about the EQ's. The guy there talked about how he stacked a graphic EQ before the amp and a different one ( studio or para, cant remember ) after the amp. I had been playing around with that idea. I wound up trying them both before.
The reverb was the same kinda thing, just experimenting with stacking them to see how they sound.
I tried the FX loop with a couple of overdrive pedals and put them just after the gate but I couldnt really notice a difference in tone between that and having them before the pod. Ive yet to try my wah pedal in the fx loop.

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 26 2015, 09:32 AM

If anything I would put the reverb and delays in the loop,or was it a echo you were using. Either way those would probably do best in the loop. With overdrive being in front of the amp.
But we got gear we both don't understand fully so experimenting would work to.

Posted by: bleez Jun 26 2015, 10:30 AM

LOL! Totally!

when you say put the reverb / delay in the loop..... how would I do that is that between the amp and the mixer? sorry, im being embarrassingly dumb here.

Posted by: dcz702 Jun 26 2015, 12:56 PM

No your not.
In the fx loop is what I'm not sure about with this unit. From the user interface I assume that everything after the amp is in the fx loop, but what confuses me is there is a fx loop to pick that can be added to the chain.
And typically fx like reverb delay and chorus would go in the loop, and od phase wha compressors would go before that amps Input

Posted by: bleez Jun 26 2015, 01:17 PM

Ah! I see what you mean. the fx loop which is selectable is for external pedals. basically there are send/return inputs on the front of the unit, so you can plug in any external pedals here and they are then automatically associated to that selectable fx loop. you can then use this fx block to place your pedals anywhere in the chain.
its kinda cool

Posted by: Todd Simpson Jun 26 2015, 02:16 PM

Putting an eq before the amp is an old trick to keep the tone from getting boomy if you are planning on playing some stuff that requires a semi delicate and articulate pick response. Tube amps and tube amp sims tend to "bunch up" in the low frequencies (bass) very quickly and the issue gets worse the more gain you add.

By reducing the lows before the gain stage, you can keep the sound "tight" and add more gain than you otherwise could have without losing the articulate pick response. Then you add bass back at the amp and post amp stage to "warm" the overal tone.

It effects the entire so so the loop is part of it

Stacking Parametric EQs before the amp is a trick I use quite a bit on my 11 rack Sometimes it takes 2 eqs to shape the tone the way you want it. You always have eq on the amp to shape the final sound. I'm very glad to see you are experimenting with PRE EQ as it's a technique that not everyone knows about or uses.