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GMC Forum _ GEAR & PRODUCTION _ Nuc Pc

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 11 2019, 11:15 AM

Hello folks, I'm thinking of upgrading my music laptop. I don't really need a laptop but I don't have room for a second desktop tower. I've come across these and wonder what your thoughts are.

Any advice/opinions gratefully received, thanks.

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/boards-kits/nuc.html

I would likely purchase from https://simplynuc.co.uk/ something like https://simplynuc.co.uk/8i7beh-full/ spec but with 512gb SSD and 32gb ram.

I just want to be able to swap it with my laptop, for the record, my laptop only has 3 usb ports and an hdmi out.

It needs to come in at around £850 before tax.

Thanks in advance of your help, I keep wondering if I'm missing something that is staring me in the face as to why I can't just swap it over, obviously there will be the set up but I'm hoping there is some quick way of cloning the hard drive from one to the other, somehow, maybe huh.gif

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 12 2019, 12:28 AM

This one of the NUC mini PCs is just about in the price range at $895. 16gb ram but can go up to .
https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/mini-pcs/nuc8i7bekqa.html

Should service your needs and not take up too much space. smile.gif

For just a pinch more money you can get a killer ASUS 17inch laptop with a 6 core intel chip and much better graphics processer. Intel integrated graphics are notoriously lame. It's about a grand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTNG5FJ/ref=psdc_13896615011_t2_B07CD3MRZFhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTNG5FJ/ref=psdc_13896615011_t2_B07CD3MRZF


You can find plenty of laptops for that price.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 11 2019, 06:15 AM) *
Hello folks, I'm thinking of upgrading my music laptop. I don't really need a laptop but I don't have room for a second desktop tower. I've come across these and wonder what your thoughts are.

Any advice/opinions gratefully received, thanks.

https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/products/boards-kits/nuc.html

I would likely purchase from https://simplynuc.co.uk/ something like https://simplynuc.co.uk/8i7beh-full/ spec but with 512gb SSD and 32gb ram.

I just want to be able to swap it with my laptop, for the record, my laptop only has 3 usb ports and an hdmi out.

It needs to come in at around £850 before tax.

Thanks in advance of your help, I keep wondering if I'm missing something that is staring me in the face as to why I can't just swap it over, obviously there will be the set up but I'm hoping there is some quick way of cloning the hard drive from one to the other, somehow, maybe huh.gif

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 12 2019, 06:24 AM

Thanks Todd

Do you think a laptop will be better value? I'm just thinking I'm paying for a screen that I don't need, my current laptop goes to my main monitor.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Aug 12 2019, 10:34 AM

Maybe you should post in a computer forum. Your finding seems quite new while Todd's option has the word "gaming" in it which usually scares me biggrin.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 12 2019, 11:58 AM

Hmmmm, I know I want 3ghz cpu quad core and at least 16gb ram, not worried about graphics as it will only be doing my music based stuff, I have a home built tower for other stuff. I just like the size of these NYC computers.

Posted by: Mertay Aug 12 2019, 01:43 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 12 2019, 10:58 AM) *
Hmmmm, I know I want 3ghz cpu quad core and at least 16gb ram, not worried about graphics as it will only be doing my music based stuff, I have a home built tower for other stuff. I just like the size of these NYC computers.


There are arguments on web suggesting the graphics card has a role in gaining lesser computer latency; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1212416-dpc-latency-better-amd-graphic-cards-3-card-comparison.html

Gaming computers usually have boosts for cpu which can be a potential nightmate for recording stability.

So thats why I suggest asking to a music computer based forum.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 12 2019, 01:56 PM

Cheers, I'll look for one smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 12 2019, 08:38 PM

Posted here https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/digital-recording-and-computers/upgrade-time-402562/

smile.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 13 2019, 12:57 AM

The "Gaming" laptops (seems to scare Mertay for some reason) typically have higher performance specs than "non gaming" laptops. They are machines that typically outlast their non gaming brethren as they usually have some of the best/fastest hardware available.

I too plug my laptop in to a 50 inch HD monitor. I don't typically use the laptop screen. However, it can be handy to have a screen that is attached to the machine itself in various scenarios. For example, if you do need to move the unit for whatever reason at some point, it's self contained. Also if you do need a secondary monitor (E.G. a output monitor for editing video so that you can use the main monitor for actual editing. Also, it is only a bit more expensive than the NUC box and it's got WAY better specs especially for graphics. For video editing, having a good graphics card is very important. The integrated graphics in most one piece box computers are CRAP as they are typically intended to be used as a media computer for playback, not as production machines for heavy lifting. But it's up to you in the end to get whatever you feel comfy with. Or if the word gaming scares you like Mertay, then avoid gaming machines smile.gif

If I were to get a one piece unit I would probably get a Mac Mini. it can run window or mac osx and has solid hardware.

Then again, you can get a used macbook pro (which is what I used) and also run windows or Mac osx. My quad i7 16gm ram 1tb sst was only $700 and LOGIC was $200 so I had a Pro Quality machine with the same software used in many pro shops all over the world for under $1,000. IT would be 750 pounds. But some folks are just not "mac people" and don't want to learn a new OS and a new DAW so if that's you, just grab a powerful gaming laptop as they are typically just more beefy and can be more upgradable, have better graphics, etc.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 12 2019, 01:24 AM) *
Thanks Todd

Do you think a laptop will be better value? I'm just thinking I'm paying for a screen that I don't need, my current laptop goes to my main monitor.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Aug 13 2019, 10:27 AM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 12 2019, 11:57 PM) *
The "Gaming" laptops (seems to scare Mertay for some reason) typically have higher performance specs than "non gaming" laptops. They are machines that typically outlast their non gaming brethren as they usually have some of the best/fastest hardware available.


If a typical system is a brand sports car, gaming computers are more like modified Japanese cars so its not as simple as more power is better:

Fan noise; Its not like in a desktop you can fit a bigger fan to reduce noise, gaming laptops generate way more heat (cause of overclocking) so this can be a real issue.

Overclock (turboboost); Overclocking has a risk of stability even for playing games, when recording if it activate/de-activates you're basically screwed. It's something to seriously consider or avoid specifically for music production, likely all computers branded gaming has this feature.

Graphics card; A decent one is needed even for music specific computers, with gaming though not only you get one you'll never use its potential but it will generate unnecessary heat or extra fan noise (no fan vs 2-3 fans for graphics card).

Bundled software; To manage this overclocked system extra software is needed means the system uses extra ram you could have use for production. Disabling them is riskier compared to a normal operating system, often bios adjustments needed and anything can go wrong.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 13 2019, 10:59 AM

Thanks Mertay,

My main reasons for the upgrade are speed of video rendering, I know my videos are usually small but when time is tight it will help, and the other thing is, I'd like to try Helix Native again, it was terrible on this machine, cracking and popping and loads of latency.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 13 2019, 06:10 PM

How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/music-pc-laptops/carillon-laptop-core-1/


Posted by: Mertay Aug 13 2019, 07:26 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 13 2019, 05:10 PM) *
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/music-pc-laptops/carillon-laptop-core-1/


Reputation of company seems very good, some bad posts about them on forums but I consider normal. I have no idea though about how their pricing compares to a comparable different brand. Since it will be the first time you'll buy from them, just incase check their return policy too.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 14 2019, 08:13 AM

looks like mertay has you sorted. Let us know what you end up getting!

BTW the reason folks often grab gaming laptops is the better video card gpu helps in editing and exporting video. A good gaming laptop, from a reputable vendor is as stable as any non gaming laptop, just faster at editing/exporting video and faster in general. Then again, it may be just more machine that you need. The one you found build by carillion I think it was is probably just fine.smile.gif I can say that my dual core integrated graphics macbook air is CRAP compared to my quad i7 16gb ram and nvidia graphics card. The faster machine is 7 years old and still keeps pace with modern software. But it's nearing the end of the line. 32 gb ram and 6 core chip are going to become standard for production machines as a sort of min spec.

[ . =quote name='Phil66' date='Aug 13 2019, 01:10 PM' post='770393']
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/music-pc-laptops/carillon-laptop-core-1/
[/quote]

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 14 2019, 10:13 AM

Thanks Todd.

I'm in that zone now where I'm thinking "aaaaaaagh".

What to do what to do what to do. Option paralysis will probably stop me buying now laugh.gif

Posted by: Mertay Aug 14 2019, 03:41 PM

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 14 2019, 07:13 AM) *
...


GPU I won't argue, its really about the needs but when I assembled my computer at the time specifically looked for a non-fanned option cause didn't care for video/games so avoided extra noise, system drivers and expense. With desktop you can get away with noise by liquid-cooling but for laptop's this has to be given thought, cause unlike a desktop the machine itself is physically closer you and when the time comes cleaning the fan(fans with depending on video card) isn't as easy either.

But for cpu; Theory is about getting the same speed with either a less expensive/weaker CPU by overclocking, or paying more for a non-overclocked newer cpu. In reality this is what the market offers in a nut-shell with gaming vs standard computers (aside video card difference). It's only media company computer's that gets overclocked right from the start but those machines are way out of our budget or needs. You can by the way boost your mac like this too but notice the warning at the end of the video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEWgqw4ykk its not intel turbo boost but gives the idea, this won't switch on/off like turbo boost and screw live playing or recording but you have risks.

I'm also sure this overclocking stuff got better since I looked into things deep last time I was in the market but still consider it a (not hardware but system stability) risk. Companies simply don't care much about low latency audio recording when combining hardware or developing various models for the market. We have to be more careful than the average joe.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 14 2019, 09:13 AM) *
What to do what to do what to do. Option paralysis will probably stop me buying now laugh.gif


Also ask this forum, its very active; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/560019-quot-today-we-build-our-studio-pc-quot-thread-292.html

Posted by: jstcrsn Aug 14 2019, 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 13 2019, 06:10 PM) *
How about this specced up to 16gb ram and i7 with 500gb ssd

https://www.carillonac1.com/daw-computers/music-pc-laptops/carillon-laptop-core-1/

I have a gaming laptop and it does exactly what Mertay said And I never knew why, it has the same specs as this one however it looks like there is no boost and is set up for music in mind rather than gaming . The one I have does not have thunderbolt connection and I am mad that I spent that much money and don;t have that option . More and more units are coming out with thunderbolt and I would look for the same model with thunderbolt

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 15 2019, 03:26 AM

Just to be clear I"m not suggesting anyone buy an overclocked/overclockable machine for music. Never have never will. Those systems are not meant for music production in general. The only turbo boost I recommend is the Intel built in turbo boost which is just a way for the chip to save energy when not under load, per previous post. wink.gif Phil is recording guitar, mostly direct. So having a cpu fan is not gonna be a deal killer imho. If he were recording lots of vocals and needed a hyper quiet record room, then that would be a different story but even then, a small mic isolator would do the trick, so fan noise from a laptop, probably not gonna be an issue.
I did suggest he avoid intel integrated graphics as they are just a big underwhelming. Most any decent laptop these days will offer some kind of video card that's decent built in to it. Most video editing apps lean more and more on the GPU so it's a good way to decrease render time by having a good GPU and a fast CPU.
I would suggest a laptop over a desktop as the price gap has gotten much more narrow than it used to be and I would not suggest phil build a computer from parts. This is a good way to create headaches that can be avoided and warranty work gets tricky as well. A laptop is easy to move, easy to send back to the vendor if need be for repair or upgrade or whatever, and easy to relocate should one wish to record in a different room, different house, whatever. So yeah, I'd say get a decent laptop and for what you are looking to spend, you can get a nice one smile.gif I'd say go with a vendor that you have heard of before as you don't want some small vendor when it's time for warranty work, should warranty work ever come up.

For example, here is a Lenovo Think Pad for $1400 US with quad core i7, 32gb ram, 500 gb ssd and quadro graphics card. Nothing overclocked, no blaring fans as far as the reviews can tell us, just a blazing fast machine. from a reputable vendor.

https://amzn.to/31GJ2uN


QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 14 2019, 10:41 AM) *
GPU I won't argue, its really about the needs but when I assembled my computer at the time specifically looked for a non-fanned option cause didn't care for video/games so avoided extra noise, system drivers and expense. With desktop you can get away with noise by liquid-cooling but for laptop's this has to be given thought, cause unlike a desktop the machine itself is physically closer you and when the time comes cleaning the fan(fans with depending on video card) isn't as easy either.

But for cpu; Theory is about getting the same speed with either a less expensive/weaker CPU by overclocking, or paying more for a non-overclocked newer cpu. In reality this is what the market offers in a nut-shell with gaming vs standard computers (aside video card difference). It's only media company computer's that gets overclocked right from the start but those machines are way out of our budget or needs. You can by the way boost your mac like this too but notice the warning at the end of the video;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FEWgqw4ykk its not intel turbo boost but gives the idea, this won't switch on/off like turbo boost and screw live playing or recording but you have risks.

I'm also sure this overclocking stuff got better since I looked into things deep last time I was in the market but still consider it a (not hardware but system stability) risk. Companies simply don't care much about low latency audio recording when combining hardware or developing various models for the market. We have to be more careful than the average joe.



Also ask this forum, its very active; https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/560019-quot-today-we-build-our-studio-pc-quot-thread-292.html

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 15 2019, 08:39 PM

That looks great Todd, thanks.

I've been looking at this today, what do you think Todd and Mertay?

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/3xs-scan-performance-17-studio-laptop-no-firewire

I'd spec a 500gb SSD and 16gb RAM. Scan have been around for a long time and have a good reputation. https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs#anc

How do you think it compares to the one I mentioned https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=60325&view=findpost&p=770393?

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Aug 15 2019, 11:06 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 15 2019, 07:39 PM) *
...


You've definitely done your homework, awesome smile.gif

Both are reputable companies and likely spec.ed for audio to a point probably we can all learn a thing or two:) so I'll say they seem dependable to me.

I didn't see any problem with your spec.s so its really up to you with the rest of the options at this point.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 16 2019, 01:40 AM

I"ve never heard of either of these vendors so I really can't help much on that front. The machine you specd looks good! Both builds are from folks who focus on creating gear for audio production which is good too. I could not find what the carrilion is using for it's video card? Can you see that info? maybe I missed it. Of the two of them the SCAN folks seem to have a bit better build in that they clearly state which video card is used and they explain the rational behind their builds. If you have heard of scan and they have a good rep in your area it seems like a good way to go. smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 15 2019, 03:39 PM) *
That looks great Todd, thanks.

I've been looking at this today, what do you think Todd and Mertay?

https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/3xs-scan-performance-17-studio-laptop-no-firewire

I'd spec a 500gb SSD and 16gb RAM. Scan have been around for a long time and have a good reputation. https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/daw-digital-audio-workstation-pcs#anc

How do you think it compares to the one I mentioned https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=60325&view=findpost&p=770393?

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 16 2019, 10:37 AM

Cheers,

And so you think it will run Helix Native?

I'm going to spec up to 32gb ram and 500gb ssd, do you think it's worth going for Win10 Pro instead of home

Phil


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 16 2019, 12:40 AM) *
I"ve never heard of either of these vendors so I really can't help much on that front. The machine you specd looks good! Both builds are from folks who focus on creating gear for audio production which is good too. I could not find what the carrilion is using for it's video card? Can you see that info? maybe I missed it. Of the two of them the SCAN folks seem to have a bit better build in that they clearly state which video card is used and they explain the rational behind their builds. If you have heard of scan and they have a good rep in your area it seems like a good way to go. smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 16 2019, 10:11 PM

Nudging this up, need help wink.gif

Posted by: Mertay Aug 16 2019, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 16 2019, 09:37 AM) *
Cheers,

And so you think it will run Helix Native?

I'm going to spec up to 32gb ram and 500gb ssd, do you think it's worth going for Win10 Pro instead of home

Phil


Could you remind what was your previous problem with helix native?

For hardware logically it should work fine with a new computer, I'm not sure if you need 32gb of ram instead of 16gb (won't help audio but maybe for video can be used to speed-up, just guessing though) but if budget allows why not. As for win pro or home, I'd ask the line6 forum for advice.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 16 2019, 10:50 PM

When I tried Native it just crackled and popped, terrible it was.

Posted by: Mertay Aug 16 2019, 11:47 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 16 2019, 09:50 PM) *
When I tried Native it just crackled and popped, terrible it was.


I see, to be honest it could be anything so really hard to guess sad.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 17 2019, 12:33 AM

Should run it just fine. I ran helix native on my quad core i7 wiht 16gb of ram. So yeah, the machine your talking about should have no problem at all. I was able to run it in my daw and record a bit with every single patch without it glitching.

As for win pro it depends on if you need the features. If you read the feature list and none of them make sense, then you probably don't need them.
https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/difference-between-win10-home-pro.html

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 16 2019, 05:50 PM) *
When I tried Native it just crackled and popped, terrible it was.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 17 2019, 08:19 AM

Thanks guys,

Native isn't the only thing, when I use my Web cam for quick videos it's drops the frame rate because of "lack of resources", I also get latency when using any plug in and I can't handle latency, it does my head in blink.gif

Cheers

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 17 2019, 10:14 AM

This should sort all of that out. smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 17 2019, 03:19 AM) *
Thanks guys,

Native isn't the only thing, when I use my Web cam for quick videos it's drops the frame rate because of "lack of resources", I also get latency when using any plug in and I can't handle latency, it does my head in blink.gif

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Aug 17 2019, 12:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 17 2019, 07:19 AM) *
...


Yeah just keep the new computer as clean as possible by strictly using it for audio-video. Don't even install a web-browser if possible.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 17 2019, 05:14 PM

Just had a chat with them, 4:30 on a Saturday and they're available. He went and looked at Native, and reckons the 16gb will handle using Native with live video recording no problem. Very helpful, gave me a lot of confidence, didn't push any extras or upgrades, explained that it's fine to add hard drives yourself, explained how to do it and said it wouldn't invalidate the warranty.

For what it costs extra I think I'll go for Win10 Pro, 500gb os drive, just deciding whether to go straight into 32gb ram because if I need it later I'll end up selling the 16 for next to nothing.

I'll have to install a Web browser for access to GMC during my practise time because my desktop causes so much interference it's unreal.

Cheers


UPDATE: I can buy it without an OS which will reduce it by £130 for Pro. I can get a license from https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product/windows-10-pro/ for £20. Is it worth making an install usb and doing it that way? I've never installed from USB, can you see any problems?

Posted by: jstcrsn Aug 17 2019, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 17 2019, 05:14 PM) *
Just had a chat with them, 4:30 on a Saturday and they're available. He went and looked at Native, and reckons the 16gb will handle using Native with live video recording no problem. Very helpful, gave me a lot of confidence, didn't push any extras or upgrades, explained that it's fine to add hard drives yourself, explained how to do it and said it wouldn't invalidate the warranty.

For what it costs extra I think I'll go for Win10 Pro, 500gb os drive, just deciding whether to go straight into 32gb ram because if I need it later I'll end up selling the 16 for next to nothing.

I'll have to install a Web browser for access to GMC during my practise time because my desktop causes so much interference it's unreal.

Cheers


UPDATE: I can buy it without an OS which will reduce it by £130 for Pro. I can get a license from https://softwaregeeks.co.uk/product/windows-10-pro/ for £20. Is it worth making an install usb and doing it that way? I've never installed from USB, can you see any problems?

I think it is usb connectivity , I would look into getting one with a thunderbolt . It might not be the problem , but Like I said " i paid that much money and don't have that option

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 17 2019, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Aug 17 2019, 06:51 PM) *
I think it is usb connectivity , I would look into getting one with a thunderbolt . It might not be the problem , but Like I said " i paid that much money and don't have that option


Thanks buddy but isn't Thunderbolt for Apple connections? I don't have anything Apple.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 17 2019, 10:29 PM

USB 3 is fine for PCs smile.gif THunderbolt can be had on both, but most pcs and pc peripherals are set for usb 3 to be honest. As for your OS, buying an OEM copy of the os without buying a new machine from the same people is sketchy. They are not supposed to sell oem OS without selling a machine with it. Without an OS, how can the builder test your machine? If you have issues, who is to blam? The OS vendor or the builder? To be honest, sounds like a headache waiting to happen. I'd avoid it but it's your rig you gotta to what you think is best.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 17 2019, 02:56 PM) *
Thanks buddy but isn't Thunderbolt for Apple connections? I don't have anything Apple.

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 17 2019, 11:05 PM

Tomorrow I'm going to ask them about it, their support is open 10:00 to 16:00 on Sundays. From what I've read, they do a full test with the os and then just wipe the hard drive for sale,


Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 18 2019, 02:01 AM

Sounds like a plan wink.gif Only issue is who to blame when some error pops up. Both vendors will point to the other guy and say it's their fault. I've had it happen. But if it's worth the saving to live with the risk then go for it smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 17 2019, 06:05 PM) *
Tomorrow I'm going to ask them about it, their support is open 10:00 to 16:00 on Sundays. From what I've read, they do a full test with the os and then just wipe the hard drive for sale,

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 18 2019, 09:48 AM

I'll let you know later, I've used SoftwareGeeks before for a Win7 license with no issues. I have a Win10 install USB that I made with the Microsoft Windows Media Creator Tool.

I want it to be legal though.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 18 2019, 12:37 PM

I spoke to them, I said I was thinking of getting the softwaregeeks.co.uk license and said "what do you think", his answer was, "I would recommend getting Windows 10 from ourselves with the system pre-installed or purchased directly from Microsoft". So there were no accusations that the licences are dodgy but his answer said it all without totally losing the sale to them which also indicates that they aren't comfortable with SG.

I then asked, it off interest, if they still test when supplying without OS, he said "Yes we still do all the same testing and benchmarks, we simply just don't install Windows. We do this by installing test version of Windows on the drive and wiping before shipping".

I also said that a lot of the time I record live from webcam to HD while recording audio from a different source and would the Samsung Evo ssd be better than the Intel as it is quicker, I have an Evo at the moment, he said "If you're recording direct to SSD, a faster drive would likely make a difference. The samsung evo drives are very high-end and top quality in my opinion, having owned one myself in my personal system and they are likely the most popular drive we install in 3XS systems too".

Great support, 9am - 10pm Mon to Fri, 10am-6pm Saturday and 10am-4pm Sunday.
Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 18 2019, 08:56 PM

Well, it's ordered. My current laptop came with a 256ssd but I put a 500gb Evo in so I'll swap that back and use the 500gb EVO in my new one as storage. Hopefully their aftersales is as good as their pre-sales, not always the case but we'll see. They do seem on the ball though. Glad I went with them, check out their audio section https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/music-and-pro-audio


3XS Scan Performance 17" - Studio Laptop (No Thunderbolt) - Pre Order
LN64660*3XS LOGO* 16GB Kingston USB3 Pendrive for Windows Recovery Media
LN91305 2 x*3XS Only* 16GB Module DDR4 SODIMM 2666Mhz C18 VENGEANCE
LN563803XS 17" AUDIO LAPTOP - NO FW
LN853373XS Microsoft H17-10001 GML Win Logo
LN619093XS System Build
LN715403XS Systems 7 Day Technical Support
LN860903XS Welcome Pack
LN86912Included with your new 3XS system
LN95872Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 500GB M.2 PCIe High Performance NVMe SSD/Solid State Drive
LN97452NH70RAQ 17.3" (FHD/ WVA / N7/ 144HZ) I7-9750H GTX 1650 4GB RGB KEYBOARD INTEL 9260AC+BT COMBO wi-fi
LN46869Scan 3XS Laptop - Build, Config & Test
LN46859Scan 3XS laptop warranty, 1st year C&R all parts, 2nd year RTB excl screen, battery and HDD
LN55098System
LN66206Windows 10 Professional DPK FQC-08797
£1313.92

Posted by: Mertay Aug 18 2019, 10:16 PM

Cool smile.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 18 2019, 10:19 PM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 18 2019, 09:16 PM) *
Cool smile.gif

I ordered it five times laugh.gif I kept on panicking and taking it out of the basket laugh.gif

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 18 2019, 10:45 PM

Sorted!

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 18 2019, 03:56 PM) *
Well, it's ordered. My current laptop came with a 256ssd but I put a 500gb Evo in so I'll swap that back and use the 500gb EVO in my new one as storage. Hopefully their aftersales is as good as their pre-sales, not always the case but we'll see. They do seem on the ball though. Glad I went with them, check out their audio section https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/music-and-pro-audio


3XS Scan Performance 17" - Studio Laptop (No Thunderbolt) - Pre Order
LN64660*3XS LOGO* 16GB Kingston USB3 Pendrive for Windows Recovery Media
LN91305 2 x*3XS Only* 16GB Module DDR4 SODIMM 2666Mhz C18 VENGEANCE
LN563803XS 17" AUDIO LAPTOP - NO FW
LN853373XS Microsoft H17-10001 GML Win Logo
LN619093XS System Build
LN715403XS Systems 7 Day Technical Support
LN860903XS Welcome Pack
LN86912Included with your new 3XS system
LN95872Samsung 970 EVO PLUS 500GB M.2 PCIe High Performance NVMe SSD/Solid State Drive
LN97452NH70RAQ 17.3" (FHD/ WVA / N7/ 144HZ) I7-9750H GTX 1650 4GB RGB KEYBOARD INTEL 9260AC+BT COMBO wi-fi
LN46869Scan 3XS Laptop - Build, Config & Test
LN46859Scan 3XS laptop warranty, 1st year C&R all parts, 2nd year RTB excl screen, battery and HDD
LN55098System
LN66206Windows 10 Professional DPK FQC-08797
£1313.92

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 19 2019, 01:53 PM

32gb ram is overkill by its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I blew the budget by around £200 but that always happens. It was a budget in the head rather than necessity so I'm happy and it should last me a while now.

UPDATE:

Just my luck, had an email, the shipment of chassis is held up, they are waiting for a container load of chassis via ship and it will be middl of September. I can wait but you know what us blokes are like, I want it NOW rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Mertay Aug 19 2019, 09:36 PM

Any info where its shipping from?

OT but I heard because of Brexit companies in Turkey which export to England are working overtime to supply demand. I guess if Brexit goes bad there's some expectation shipment from other countries might be problematic for a while there.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 20 2019, 08:31 AM

QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 19 2019, 08:36 PM) *
Any info where its shipping from?

OT but I heard because of Brexit companies in Turkey which export to England are working overtime to supply demand. I guess if Brexit goes bad there's some expectation shipment from other countries might be problematic for a while there.


OT?

The shop is coming from Taiwan buddy. I can wait, the company seem very good and these things do happen.

Cheers

Posted by: Mertay Aug 20 2019, 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 20 2019, 07:31 AM) *
OT?

The shop is coming from Taiwan buddy. I can wait, the company seem very good and these things do happen.

Cheers


"out of topic", good just wanted to give a heads-up cause of this brexit thing.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 29 2019, 10:47 PM

Believe it or not 32GB is the new spec for higher end production laptops. I've got 16gb in mine and that's all it will take. I did splurge for the 1tb ssd which I've been glad about every day I've owned the machine. However, it's only got one internal drive so having the extra storage internal has been a huge help. All my apps launch quick, renders are faster when written to the ssd, everything is faster. It transformed a 12 year old machine in to a fire breathnig monster that I've used for HD Video and multi track audio without a hitch for several years now. It's only a quad i7, but it's been solid as a rock and it's still my main production computer.

I bought an macbook air as a backup unit, 8ggb ram 128 ssd with dual core i5 and WOW does is feel sluggish compared to my main laptop. Rendering HD video is sloooooooow but it does does LOGIC X just fine with real time audio guitar plugins.. The Macbook Air was only $300. For anyone looking for a cheap alternative to a pricey laptop, I'd say grab a 2012 i5/8gb ram/128ssd for a fe hundred bucks and put LOGIC X on it. Runs the Helix native Plugin flawlessly, and OVERLOUD with zero lack. It's able too run the same buffer setting as my other laptop. So it makes a killer backup laptop for way cheap.


Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 19 2019, 08:53 AM) *
32gb ram is overkill by its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I blew the budget by around £200 but that always happens. It was a budget in the head rather than necessity so I'm happy and it should last me a while now.

UPDATE:

Just my luck, had an email, the shipment of chassis is held up, they are waiting for a container load of chassis via ship and it will be middl of September. I can wait but you know what us blokes are like, I want it NOW rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 30 2019, 08:23 PM

It's getting closer, is there somewhere that explains buffering in kid's terms?

Cheers

Phil

Posted by: Mertay Aug 30 2019, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 30 2019, 07:23 PM) *
It's getting closer, is there somewhere that explains buffering in kid's terms?


For lowest latency, you set the buffer value (can be set from soundcard settings) as low as possible. If too low then it will make crackle noises, to fix it simply try a higher buffer value. Low buffer settings downside is then it demands more cpu power, so ideally if you're recording guitar nothing more than a guitar plug-in (without a crowded chain) is ideal.

So after we do the recording and want to add more fx, mix a song etc. we increase the buffer size to help cpu demand. Basically we do this when low latency isn't needed and we're not recording anything but only adjusting stuff.

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 30 2019, 09:52 PM

Thanks Mertay,

Do what exactly does a buffer do? Does it act like a dam stockpiling data until the cpu is ready?

Cheers


Posted by: Todd Simpson Aug 31 2019, 03:27 AM

block size in reaper is something you set in order to get a workable balance between latency and a functional DAW. Set it to low for your computer, and you get odd sounds/clicks/etc. if you Set it too high, you get way to much latency when recording and using plugins. Here is a screen grab. It's called BLOCK SIZE in reaper, there is a little box to type in a number, and most folks start around 512 and then start cutting it in half and half again etc. until they hit the sweet spot. With a fast rig, you can take it down to 32 and be just fine. smile.gif See how low you can get it once your new rig arrives. The sample rate is something else. It's "Samples per Second" or how many times per second the software creates a "sample" of the audio. I'm set at 48k (48,0000 samples per second) which is pretty common, 44.1khz is the standard CD sampling rate and was the standard sampling rate in many DAWs for ages. These days, you may hear about sampling rates as high as 192khz. This is a bit of overkill since everything gets squashed/truncated/butchered when it gets encoded for streaming. That's why it's a good idea to preview your audio files on whatever you use to share them. E.G. Checking the sound on a youtube vid before sharing it. Same for Instagram etc. It's very easy to get very bad sounding audio on streaming platforms if one isn't careful.





QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 30 2019, 04:52 PM) *
Thanks Mertay,

Do what exactly does a buffer do? Does it act like a dam stockpiling data until the cpu is ready?

Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Aug 31 2019, 09:24 AM

Thanks Todd, it's something I don't worry about at the moment as I'm hardware based but I do want to try helix native, I love the Helix and the simplicity of the ui but I don't need the pedal on the floor, if it works ill sell the board then I'll probably get a floor controller for Native laugh.gif rolleyes.gif We'll see though, I seem to be super sensitive to latency, I wish my ears were as sensitive to pitch.

UPDATE: Still need the floor unit for when I go through my amp, unless there is a way to send Native through.

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 1 2019, 01:41 AM

If you use native, your monitors become your amp. It's as if you had your amp in another room with a nice microphone on it, and your using your monitors to hear it as you would in a real production studio. I do love using plugins for recording, but I do still use my ampero for practice as it's hooked directly to my monitors since it's also an audio interface.

I still have my rack with the 11 and the tube superlead preamp and the4x12 but I only use it now and again for guest solo stuff. It's certainly too much gear to lug about.

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Aug 31 2019, 04:24 AM) *
Thanks Todd, it's something I don't worry about at the moment as I'm hardware based but I do want to try helix native, I love the Helix and the simplicity of the ui but I don't need the pedal on the floor, if it works ill sell the board then I'll probably get a floor controller for Native laugh.gif rolleyes.gif We'll see though, I seem to be super sensitive to latency, I wish my ears were as sensitive to pitch.

UPDATE: Still need the floor unit for when I go through my amp, unless there is a way to send Native through.

Posted by: Phil66 Sep 1 2019, 10:31 AM

That's how I use my Helix now, through my monitors but I do sometimes go through my amp. There's something organic about an amp.

Also, I can't get my monitors to sound like my Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue even with Chad Boston's "Amp in room" ir/cab block. Maybe I could if I spent a long time, but with Helix on same settings as the actual amp in the room, not the same sound, similar but not the same. I guess the monitor cabinets, speaker cones, size, location etc are completely different to the amp's.

One day I'm gonna take that Fender into another room and mic it up to see if I can get a match without Chad Boston's block. So many variables though and I only have an SM57.

Cheers

Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 1 2019, 06:21 PM

There are sonic differences to be sure smile.gif Take the amp and mic it up and put it in a closet or something to reduce bleed and see how it sounds through your monitors. It won't sound like the amp does when it's 2 feet from you more then likely. Whatever your using as monitors may lack the low frequency response of your amp. Adding a subwoofer may get you a bit closer. Still, some folks just prefer having an amp smile.gif

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 1 2019, 05:31 AM) *
That's how I use my Helix now, through my monitors but I do sometimes go through my amp. There's something organic about an amp.

Also, I can't get my monitors to sound like my Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue even with Chad Boston's "Amp in room" ir/cab block. Maybe I could if I spent a long time, but with Helix on same settings as the actual amp in the room, not the same sound, similar but not the same. I guess the monitor cabinets, speaker cones, size, location etc are completely different to the amp's.

One day I'm gonna take that Fender into another room and mic it up to see if I can get a match without Chad Boston's block. So many variables though and I only have an SM57.

Cheers

Posted by: Phil66 Sep 17 2019, 11:54 AM

Well after the delay in the chassis shipment it's finally ready. Had notification that it's been built, had the 24 hour test cycle, passed all QC test and is being shipped today.

I'm not going to rush to get it in to my set up, I'm going to install minimum software and delete anything I don't need, then I'll plug it into my system.


Posted by: Todd Simpson Sep 18 2019, 06:09 PM

good things come to those whoo wait they say smile.gif I''m sure you have already got a backup plan to create a disk image of the main partition so that you can restore it should you run in to a problem. God knows having a recovery boot drive has saved me countless hours of reinstalling from scratch.

One thing I'm also sure your aware of but merits a mention for those not aware is to turn OFF WINDOWS UPDATE or it can bone your entire rig overnight. Same with mac update actually. smile.gif
Todd

QUOTE (Phil66 @ Sep 17 2019, 06:54 AM) *
Well after the delay in the chassis shipment it's finally ready. Had notification that it's been built, had the 24 hour test cycle, passed all QC test and is being shipped today.

I'm not going to rush to get it in to my set up, I'm going to install minimum software and delete anything I don't need, then I'll plug it into my system.

Posted by: Phil66 Sep 18 2019, 09:06 PM

Thanks Todd,

Well it's here and it's a beast. They have left all of the burn-in test results and everything like that on the desktop for viewing. I got a separate box with a mug, a lovely big mouse mat that is very high quality, it will make a great backdrop for small ebay items wink.gif I got an A4 size hard(ish) plastic A4 wallet with full build details and QC reports. It's a great bit of kit, glad I waited and the big kid in me loved the way the keyboard scrolled through various colours when booting rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

I'm currently syncing what I need from my OneDrive account, then I'll remove any software I don't need and hopefully, by the weekend it will be integrated into my system. Just need to check all usb connections as I think at least one is C so may have to get some cables. I've upgraded my USB switcher, I have a powered USB 3.0 hub which hasn't ever given a problem even with my Helix going through it which they say is a big NO NO. That was going through an old USB 2.0 switcher which was obviously a bottleneck.

Why do you say to switch off Windows Update?

Cheers

Phil

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